NY 142: Rolling in the Deep, WAIT WAT? PARTY OVER?!

[Slandaar]

I don't sheep useless players. I thought he was scum but now hiraki and you endorse it, I have to rethink things.

You seem to find everyone as scummy, do you think anyone is town?

[Beck]

Everyone is guilty until proven innocent.

People I don't think are possibly town

Faraday (sadly I was null on username, its a shame he is going to come back and take away my town read)
TheAdmiral
Funkybike- only slightly


That's about it. Everyone else is null or scummy.

Way too many skating by hoping not to draw attention to themselves so they don't get lynched or NKd

Fuck playing passive, in the long run it isn't helpful.

[Slandaar]

ThAd is town because hiraki and I are voting him? is that purely the reason for that read?

[Beck]

No, TheAd is town cause he is genuinely scum hunting and he was trying to use the funky wagon to catch scum. Doesn't help that you and he were voting him though. Hiraki is leaning scum and you are most likely scum.

[Slandaar]

look, scum likely voting 3/4/5 is wifom, pure and simple.

There is no logical reasoning to suspect someone based on the position of a wagon they voted. The way they voted/reasoning is what matters. ESPECIALLY when we dont even know funkys alignment...

That is not genuine scum hunting. The only way it is, is if you KNOW funky is town, in which case it makes sense to LOOK at 3/4/5 on a SIX VOTE wagon closely because yeah there is a fair chance someone is scum there, but not when funky has not shown any townieness. It still completely depends on reasoning even then though.

You need to reasses how you view ThAd's 'scum hunting'

[Beck]

I've explained already the whole 3, 4, 5 thing is etched in people's brain. Mostly cause of garbage like this - http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... ding_Mafia

Plus if somebody THINKS somebody is town, than the people on that person's wagon are up for scrutiny. This simple fact that funky has to be confirned town to use that, is proof you are probably mafia. If 7 people are voting your town read, it's natural to assume scum is helping that wagon along. Mafia thinking would be to try and cast doubt on that type of scum hunting, especially if we are on to something. Since you are giving him serious flack for it, I'd assume you are partners with atleast one of those 3

[vijay2vasandani]

Everyone is guilty until proven innocent.

People I don't think are possibly town

Faraday (sadly I was null on username, its a shame he is going to come back and take away my town read)
TheAdmiral
Funkybike- only slightly


That's about it. Everyone else is null or scummy.

Way too many skating by hoping not to draw attention to themselves so they don't get lynched or NKd

Fuck playing passive, in the long run it isn't helpful.

Wait what? So is Faraday a town read or not?

[Beck]

Ugh typo, those 3 are town reads

[Slandaar]

This simple fact that funky has to be confirned town to use that, is proof you are probably mafia. If 7 people are voting your town read, it's natural to assume scum is helping that wagon along.

1. Funky isnt a town read of mine thanks

2. I have questioned why funky is town ThAd STILL hasnt given a reasonable answer.

I understand what you are saying its literally what I JUST said, but you have to know funky is town to follow the reasoning or at least have a good reason to assume hes town, ThAd does not.

[Beck]

1. wasn't implying he was YOUR town read, I was saying that if somebody 7 people were voting somebody you thought was town.

2. You really don't have to understand why people think others are town, it doesn't matter what TheAd's reason is, if you REALLY cared, there are probably at least 5 or 6 who have funky as probably town yet you seemed focused on TheAd's reason and nobody elses.

but here, let me show you where TheAd actually does provide his reason why he thinks funky is town so we can at least settle that part of the argument

I will say I think the wagon on funkybike is a bit too easy. In terms of both target and how easily it is moving along picking up followers.

I get this weird feeling that everything that has come off looking 'scummy" so far hasn't been perpertrated by scum. I mean some of it is too stupid to say as scum, and some of it has just been misconstrued. I realise that is a little vague, so to point out some examples: pine saying something about not caring if someone else is scum, theam's false dilemma between pine and beck, everything funkybike says etc. I feel like the scum is sitting back and sniping. In any case it's what I'd do as scum.


and this I actually agree with, I typically call it the "too scummy to be scum" argument personall.

1. If funky is scum, there is no way he is going to survive end game, especially if there is a vig, even if there isn't, there is no way he will be allowed to make it that far without increasing his content.

2. If funky is town, he is very easily someone that can be mislynched, he is playing sub-optimal and there is no real scum motivation behind his play. Do I hate that he bandwagoned 2 people right off the bat? sure I do, but I also realize that it takes 12 people to lynch somebody so him hopping on so early without actually giving a reason why, is going to draw attention to himself, it doesn't really matter who it is, that kind of play is going to draw attention to them.

He isn't a good lynch today, neither is TheAd

you however are a good lynch because your whole attack on TheAd, I can actually see coming from scum, and because you are only attacking him for his town read on funky, and nobody else, just makes you look even worse.

Clearly the "better" players are starting to take notice (note I put the better in quotes because people don't think I am a good player) and it will only be a matter of time before everyone else realizes it.

You as town doesn't make sense attacking TheAd, period, because there is nothing wrong with what he tried to do. NOTHING. That is how you scum hunt, you analyze wagons (which you can do without a flip based on town reads) and do other things that I don't need to explain.

so there it is, I suggest you direct your attention to somebody else because TheAd isn't probably not getting lynched today, and now you are doing what I have done, tunneled on mostly one person, which isn't optimal play by anyone but me.

[Beck]

shit this was supposed to be in quotes, this is the reason TheAd gives for his town read on funky

I will say I think the wagon on funkybike is a bit too easy. In terms of both target and how easily it is moving along picking up followers.

I get this weird feeling that everything that has come off looking 'scummy" so far hasn't been perpertrated by scum. I mean some of it is too stupid to say as scum, and some of it has just been misconstrued. I realise that is a little vague, so to point out some examples: pine saying something about not caring if someone else is scum, theam's false dilemma between pine and beck, everything funkybike says etc. I feel like the scum is sitting back and sniping. In any case it's what I'd do as scum.

[Faraday]

hey salandaar can you point me to the relevant posts so i can make a thad vote? just some sort of lolsummary, that 3/4/5 thing sounds good where did that come up

[Slandaar]

the 2 people on that wagon I am most leery of is bvoigt and theamateur

I think the money place to look for scum on that wagon is the three S's: slaandar, sky and sodaspirit. Combination of gut feeling, my pre-existing suspicion of sky, and the fact that 3, 4, and 5 are the cliche cushy scum positions on any given wagon.

This is where it stems from

[Slandaar]

Beck this is going round in circles, I saw that reasoning, its just bad, are you assuming SV is town? that wagon was going pretty well...

[Faraday]

why is thadmiral using a newbie scumtell

that has no basis in reality

[popsofctown]

why do you continue to

pull attention from vijay


Ever since his pressure relieved he has been active lurking.

[Slandaar]

If you are referring to me its because I have Admiralscum in my sights

I find vijay townish, the only thing that irks me is a timing between 2 of his posts...

[Slandaar]

why is thadmiral using a newbie scumtell

that has no basis in reality

Do tell, whats this newbie scumtell?

[Beck]

I'm assuming the 3-5 thing

That gets thrown around all the time in newbie games.

[Pine]

I'll take it on Pine and Faraday's word that SV and Beck are town, since my initial impression does not impress me.

I retracted that a while ago (regarding SV). Beats the hell out of me what he is, but his play style as SV seems to take the NS dickishness and turn it up to truly epic levels, and seems designed to present a thorough "I'm a douche" front, making him extremely hard to read. What I'd usually call scummy actions (refusing to answer questions, failing to provide reasons for his reads, active lurking, general trolling) fits in with his cockish persona. So I'm having a hard time deciding whether he's obfuscating scum or lolTown. Either way I think it's a shitty play style

[Pine]

By the way, if it's in the wiki, it's obsolete.

Unless it's REALLY old, and then it might be back in play for WIFOM reasons. The wiki is super unreliable outside of Newbie games.

[Beck]

(refusing to answer questions, failing to provide reasons for his reads, active lurking, general trolling)

In other words, he is scum

[Pine]

Or just a total arrogant dick. This is the dilemma I presented. Pay attention.

[popsofctown]

By the way, if it's in the wiki, it's obsolete.

Unless it's REALLY old, and then it might be back in play for WIFOM reasons. The wiki is super unreliable outside of Newbie games.

I think you're misplacing the Burden of WIFOM. The 3-4-5 spots on a wagon result pretty naturally from Bayes theorem. Only if the scums in question are cognizant of the tell and avoiding it does its popularity decrease. But they might swing back around to too obvious to be true and do it anyway as well, particularly once the meta has shifted away from targetting 3-4-5 scums and thus the meta is currently favoring a single wine swap.

The 0 wine swap and double wine swap behaviors are, as a rule, more popular than than the ones and threes.


Of course the tell's publicity reduces its value, but it's value is always greater than 0.

[Pine]

lolwhut?

On the wiki = less useful than unpublicized working theories. That's all I said. Didn't even comment on the 3-4-5 thing.