Imperial Intrigue (Endgame, OUT OF NOWHERE)

[Wraith]

I think I missed something. Stand by.

[kdowns]

Also I'm V/LA for Today and tomorrow.

[Wraith]

Spoiler: Background

Duranic

Klan

Culture

Since the earliest known Duranic societies, the Duran have lived in units known as

klans

, an extended "family" of blood and adoptive relations. These klans differ wildly in size, with some being no larger than the immediate "family" unit that is used in Western cultures, and others having the population of hundreds. Duranic society has always been a patriarchal society, with each klan headed by a patriarch - most often one of the older and more dominant of the males - and the authority and prestige granted by that distinction being passed down through the future males of the klan. Property is owned and inherited by males over females, as are formal titles such as those of nobility or royalty. The recent succession crisis surrounding House Argelev is a case in point - though dozens of females remain living in the klan, none may inherit the title of Primarch. In the event of a lack of males for succession to a title, claims by rival klans are often made to the title - for some lesser titles, the title merely goes to the strongest claimant, while in the case of the Iron Crown the title's new recipient is decide via formal process, such as the Conclave of Nobles.

How do klans form and grow? Klans are often rooted in an immediate family of blood relations, growing by natural reproduction and adoption. As opposed to the family units of the West, Duranic klans almost always live altogether on large tracts of property, very rarely splitting up and spreading out as those families do. An integral part of Duranic philosophy is the strong belief in individual potential, and the natural right each person has to individual liberty - it is a great offense for a Duran to restrict the liberties of another Duran without cause. The Duran believe in strength, and that evolves into what foreigners call the "assimilation philosophy" - a "pureblooded," restrictively-bred race is always severely limited in its strengths; because all individuals have potential, that translates into all different races having their own strengths and weakness. Therefore, in order for the Duran to be the strongest people in the world, these strengths must be absorbed and bred into the race, with the weaknesses excluded. This philosophy is foundation of klan adoption - it is an easy and simple process, designed for klans to become stronger through absorption of different, unique strengths and weaknesses offered by the cultures of different klans and, ultimately, races. It is an area where the Duran greatly differ from the xenophobic, "purist" philosophies of the rest of Avalon - whereas anywhere else the slogan would be "We must expel the weakness from our people!" the slogan in the Imperium would be "We must seek out the strengths of the world and make them our own!" This is a socio-cultural philosophy known as "assimilative eugenics" to prominent sociologists.

The result of this culture stemming from klans is rather unique - though civil and political rights are often curbed in the name of security, in contrast to the republics of the West, the Duranic Imperium is, strangely enough, the most tolerant country in the world. The Imperium is very similar to the Confederation of Arkania in the regard that both are seen as a haven for the "self-made man," the ideal that with enough effort anyone can rise to any position - after all, House Argelev was founded by an extraordinary young man...who happened to be the son of a poor blacksmith. Despite the strong belief in individual liberty and self-determination, the influence of klans - many of which evolved into powerful noble houses - and the reality of being surrounded by enemies bent on the Imperium's destruction has also bred a strong sense of collectivism. Duranic citizens are probably closer to each other on an individual level than the citizens of other nations in Avalon, simply because of being forced to rely on each other for survival constantly over the course of millennia. The principle of banding together to defeat the enemies all around is personified in Duranic art throughout history. It is also why there is such strong respect and reverence given to the concept of duty, sacrifice, and service - the military is perhaps the most sacred organization in the Imperium, simply because all Duran must stand together if they are to survive. The sense of brotherhood, comradery, and interpersonal reliance is instilled into military recruits from day one.

After all, the motto of the Imperium is, of course, "To Each His Due, From All His Duty"

Votecount 5.1

MacDougall

(5)

:

Andrius, AGar,

MattP

,

EtherealCookie

, manho, Nero Cain, kdowns

Andrius

(2)

:

MacDougall

, Magua

Magua

(1)

:

EtherealCookie

Bogre

(1)

:

MacDougall

Not Voting

(3)

:

MattP, Bogre, vezokpiraka

With 12 alive it takes

7

to lynch.

MacDougall stands at

L-2

Deadline for today is

November 10, 2011

That was close, I almost put in a lynch scene. Good thing I reread in detail rather than just lynching him.

[PeregrineV]

@Andrius- also, I got a little excited when I saw your colored vote count. However, it looks somewhat incomplete in terms of missing days and color coding confirmed alignments. Was that a work in progress or something else?

[Magua]

So couldn't of EC been bussin'?

Errrrr...I explicitly say he could've been bussing StrangerCoug. I mean, literally, in the post. But overall EC's just not high on my scum-meter, both because of being first on Empking (which was certainly not a bus) and because unlike other people on the MacDougall wagon, he at least had been expressing scumreads on MacDougall for quite some time before it was even a wagon.

Here’s my issue with Magua. He wasn’t on the SC wagon. At all. He just kinda ignored it. Disappeared.

...

So, the major question is, where the fuck is Magua during this entire SC thing?

Yeah. I had a crunch weekend at work right before a release. I logged in to handle the games I was modding and that was it.

And then he comes back to vote the most obvious VI when he was adamantly AGAINST voting Vezok because he was an obvious VI?

Errrrrrr. When I came back I voted AGar. AGar is not by any stretch of the imagination a VI. Did you mean *before*, when I voted Peregrine? Peregrine is not a VI either.

I believe MacDougall is in fact a bad choice. He is perhaps as bad a choice as SodaSpirit was. However, Magua is not a bad choice. Magua screams out scum much more than MacDougall. If Magua is scum, I would go forth to lynch Vezok. However, MacDougall can certainly wait. There are people worse than him. I get the feeling town is being manipulated into a terrible lynch once more, and this one will lose the game for us.

So you agree with me that MacDougall is town...but from this you move to suspect that I'm scum who's derailing an obviously bad lynch and bussing my partner Andrius. Do I have that right? And then, still working under the premise that MacDougall is town, you vote me instead of any of the people who were just chomping for his lynch.

Do I have that right?

[EtherealCookie]

In the end, you voted for an extremely obvious VI.

UNVOTE: Andrius
VOTE: SodaSpirit17 (L-1)

This is your vote.
You were against Vezok because he was obviously VI. I don't see how you can be against Vezok for being VI but not SodaSpirit when he acted in the same manner.

And yes, I'm voting you, because I have little reason to suspect Andrius in comparison to you, or AGar for that matter. Gaining town credibility by defending someone who then gets lynched and pops town isn't a bad move at all for scum to do, and if it can be done with bussing your partner to further ensure your success, why not?

[MacDougall]

i'm of house argelev and loyalist.

Does anybody else feel that Manho's original claim is now obviously a lie?

[manho]

sorry i have unexpected limited access last 2 days.

i should have time to read the thread tonight. will reply the above post later.

[manho]

i'm of house argelev and loyalist.

Does anybody else feel that Manho's original claim is now obviously a lie?

yes, that was fake. i'm the 4th Legion "Deathbringers".

i first thought i may be recruited to the mafia or 3rd-party, as i prefer to be anti-town if i can choose. so i hid my identity and claimed house argelev, thought it may help if i'm recruited. but i'm still town by now and someone brought it up, so i think it's time for me to claim it.

[manho]

quick reads:

MacDougall is scum. EC and andrius are scum of another team. agar and magua are town. don't know about the others.

that hammer by MacDougall yesterday is enough for a kill. would have killed him if i have my bullet. my vote stays.

[Magua]

This is your vote.
You were against Vezok because he was obviously VI. I don't see how you can be against Vezok for being VI but not SodaSpirit when he acted in the same manner.

Soda was a compromise lynch for me. I said so repeatedly.

And yes, I'm voting you, because I have little reason to suspect Andrius in comparison to you, or AGar for that matter. Gaining town credibility by defending someone who then gets lynched and pops town isn't a bad move at all for scum to do, and if it can be done with bussing your partner to further ensure your success, why not?

You can't go from saying "I think they're both scum distancing" to "I have little reason to suspect Andrius in comparison to you." Your #1135 is all "it's Andrius or MacDougall at this point and I prefer MacDougall" (which is odd to say with only me voting Andrius), but then you say MacDougall is town. Which is fine. But then you call me scum defending MacDougall, looking for townpoints when he flips town, which makes *no* sense BECAUSE ITS A TWO-SCUM GAME.

Also makes no sense GIVEN THAT I WAS LYNCHING SODA, WHO THEN FLIPPED TOWN.

Jesus. You're scared "town is getting manipulated into another bad lynch" by attacking the only person who's actually trying to stop the lynch. The mind simply boggles.

[Nero Cain]

@Nero- you said McDougall has done a lto of scummy things. Like what, and which posts?

Well his no lynch vote in 444 is stupid but his reasoning in 539 s scummy.

Well at that stage I was too confused to vote for anyone. I'll vote for someone eventually. I just wanted my vote on no lynch in case the day ended before I came back because I didn't want to be on anyone.

^^^^^^^^^
looks like noob scum trying to justify not being on a potential mislynch.

540 is a potential defense and fense sitting on EMP.

551 is info fishing.

Hammers Emp anyways.

984 sounds like scum trying to get out of being scum.

I keep saying I'm a loyalist because I am. In fact, I said I was a loyalist before the mod revealed, conclusively that it was the VT role PM.

Wich post are you refering to here?

Well the alternative at the time was to sit there and throw fuel on the David vs. SleepyKrew fire. Town vs. town it turned out that one.

And, at the time, you just happened to know they were both town?

I've seen town v town before.

I read it as town v town.

Can't blame me for being right about something. I don't care for your insinuation here tbh because I can't argue it.

Except you voted for SK. Even if you wanna say hey I

had

to vote him b/c he was going against the righful heir...I mean...doesn't that conflict with your wincon?

flip flopping and hammering on Soda.

OMGUS vote on Andy and and gives up. lol

Kdowns: If he wasn't confirmed town from day 1 then I'd be sure he was scum. Can I get a clarification on why he is town again?

How is he confirmed town? If anyone's coasting this game its him. All he's really done is claim 1 shot vig and kill the confirmed town vig.

Anyone ever been in a game with a town vig AND a x-shot town vig?

@Pere I too have a noob read on him, its just noob scum. Why do you think he's noob town?

At school. I'll make this short. Lynching Dougall is as stupid as lynching Soda. Stop sheeping. Be competent town. Don't repeat the same mistake.

When did you decide this? You were more than happy to vote him earlier.

Wraith is the vote count in 5.1 correct?

[Nero Cain]

scratch what I wrote about Kdowns. SK was one shot day vig. Kdowns one shot town night vig makes perfect sense.

[Bogre]

i'm of house argelev and loyalist.

Does anybody else feel that Manho's original claim is now obviously a lie?

yes, that was fake. i'm the 4th Legion "Deathbringers".

i first thought i may be recruited to the mafia or 3rd-party, as i prefer to be anti-town if i can choose. so i hid my identity and claimed house argelev, thought it may help if i'm recruited. but i'm still town by now and someone brought it up, so i think it's time for me to claim it.

So you faked your House to try and become anti-town?

[Bogre]

Well at that stage I was too confused to vote for anyone. I'll vote for someone eventually. I just wanted my vote on no lynch in case the day ended before I came back because I didn't want to be on anyone.

^^^^^^^^^
looks like noob scum trying to justify not being on a potential mislynch.

540 is a potential defense and fense sitting on EMP.

551 is info fishing.

Hammers Emp anyways.


flip flopping and hammering on Soda.

The first point has been hammered out time and time again, but I think it's basically WIFOM whether it's new town or new scum. The next points, waffling and hammering Empking I can see scum motivation for, especially new scum motivation, to be sure to be on the wagon and to try and get town points on that.

The Soda thing is strange too, because it essentially he was always on the leading wagons and coming in late to blast someone away, just because? Yeah, strange.

[MacDougall]

Well at that stage I was too confused to vote for anyone. I'll vote for someone eventually. I just wanted my vote on no lynch in case the day ended before I came back because I didn't want to be on anyone.

^^^^^^^^^
looks like noob scum trying to justify not being on a potential mislynch.

540 is a potential defense and fense sitting on EMP.

551 is info fishing.

Hammers Emp anyways.


flip flopping and hammering on Soda.

The first point has been hammered out time and time again, but I think it's basically WIFOM whether it's new town or new scum. The next points, waffling and hammering Empking I can see scum motivation for, especially new scum motivation, to be sure to be on the wagon and to try and get town points on that.

The Soda thing is strange too, because it essentially he was always on the leading wagons and coming in late to blast someone away, just because? Yeah, strange.

You know except for the StrangerCoug lynch... in which I was second to vote when I was the vote leader. So if I'm SC's scum buddy then I basically just turned me getting lynched into him getting lynched. Or if I'm Empking's, I hammered him after defending him... I'd like to think that rules out me being StrangerCoug's scum buddy. I know it's just my word but I wouldn't have hammered OR defended Empking if I was his partner... Especially as a new guy. I would have just stayed the hell away from it, or even bussed him earlier. But again, just my word.

[Nero Cain]

There a reason you're avoiding my questions?

[MacDougall]

Haha yeah kinda I guess. I thought I had written loyalist but I hadn't explicitly said loyalist. I had just used the word loyal to describe myself in one of the first posts I made. As for the second question... that was kind of my question too o_O.

[MacDougall]

Oh the wincon question. Uhhh no my wincon says that I win when all threats to House Argelev and it's loyalists are defeated. I believed David was the rightful House Argelev heir at the time... Doesn't that make sense?

[Nero Cain]

Haha yeah kinda I guess.

So whats the reason?

As for the second question... that was kind of my question too o_O.

???????????

Oh the wincon question. Uhhh no my wincon says that I win when all threats to House Argelev and it's loyalists are defeated. I believed David was the rightful House Argelev heir at the time... Doesn't that make sense?

No it doesn't. Try and follow me here. In 1086 you said that you read the David vs. SK fight as town vs. town. Yet despite the fact that you felt they were both town you still voted for Sleepy. You claim to have a town wincon, if so your Sleepy vote makes no sense. So you are either lying about you having a town read on SK (which begs the question of why did you tell Andy you had a town read?) or you are lying about your wincon.

[MacDougall]

The reason was because I realised I hadn't actually written loyalist despite thinking I had. Oops. What I had done is post my wincon (and what I feel is the town wincon) before the loyalist role was in the OP, but that's past proving now unfortunately and not really in the spirit of the game anyway.

The second question was actually your third one, my bad. "How is he confirmed town?" was the q.

As for your other suggestion. At first I didn't have a town read on him but eventually did and removed my vote accordingly. You say "despite the fact that you felt Sleepy was town you voted for him", which is not true, I thought he was a threat to House Argelev and voted for him. My wincon says nothing about not lynching players you think are town, it says defeat threats to the House and the loyalists. As an aside, I actually thought he was scum at that stage. I had read David as a particularly important character (due to him saying so and me simply believing him) and SleepyKrew was pushing a wagon on David. It became apparent later that he was town when votes started falling off him and others were saying so vociferously and with my original town read on David it became town v town to me. It was about that stage that the votes were also falling off David and SleepyKrew was aiming at others as well so he wasn't worrying me anymore so I removed my vote on him.

[MacDougall]

And before you say ...

"Oh so you avoided my questions because you were afraid you'd be caught out lying"... Let me save you the effort and say ... sorta. I was afraid of being caught out being wrong, not really lying because I actually thought I had said I was a loyalist and I just wanted you to leave me alone . Honestly though if that's enough to lynch me then go ahead. Do remember that I've been at L-1 and could have self hammered by now, and if I had mafia teammates they probably would have had me self hammer by now, but HEY, [sarcasm] I've been scum since day 1 right [/sarcasm].

Plenty of time to lynch me though, go prod someone else and see if you can find some real scum while we wait.

[AGar]

So wait... Why is MacDougall town? Because he claimed BR? Ummm.... For fucks sake will people start actually thinking? It's a hard null-tell.

[PeregrineV]

Sorry for weekend absence. Catching up today.

[kdowns]

I'm here hopefully will get caught up.