NY 142: Rolling in the Deep, WAIT WAT? PARTY OVER?!

[ThAdmiral]

if ThAd isnt lynched today I will be very disappointed.

@ThAd: what happened to sky=scum?

No one is voting sky. It's not going to happen today.

In other news, can I get a quick summary of the Slandaar and vijay cases?

Thanks, ever so.

Yes. I'm going to put them in separate posts so they don't get lost among the fray.

[ThAdmiral]

Slandaar

- I first thought of him as scum when, after a fairly vague comment about possible scum on the funkybike wagon in the 3-4-5 slot, he both unvotes and attacks me. (post 581)

- After I vote him for his interesting reaction he instantly "knows I'm scum" and votes me back. (post 644)

- He uses the extremely contrived reason that I didn't look for scum on the beck wagon as a reason why I am scum. I refute that here:

What?

It means your stance is wrong if you were town. If you thought people pushing a wagon who you find town are scum then thats fine, but you did not use it to find scum pushing the beck wagon so you are just using anything you can to back up your vote otherwise you would not find beck town and everyone pushing his wagon town.

Your stance summed up: someone thinks funky is scum they must be scum!

There is no way you believe that, you must be scum.

I actually understand what you are getting at here, but I don't think the two situations are comparable. In fact I find this accusation patently ridiculous. I didn't even realise Beck had a wagon on him until rereading and I found out that he had a total of 4 votes on him on page 5, barely after we had gotten out of the random voting stage. I hadn't even gotten a town read on Beck at that stage which makes your accusation even more invalid.

- He shows extreme cognitive dissonance by stating at the same time that "I must know funky is town" (he says this a few times, for example post 699) and also that "funky is probably scum". I point that out here:

I will respond later tonight, but I will quickly point out this;

I feel like the scum is sitting back and sniping. In any case it's what I'd do as scum.

What has funky been doing exactly? yeah sitting back and sniping (bussing) so, how did you get this magical funky is town read? because his wagon was going too well? but wait a second, wasnt funky doing exactly what you think the scum are? so the votes should be vindicated from your standpoint surely?

No, basically. Who's he bussing btw? I thought you said I knew funky was town?

@ everyone else: does anyone else see how slandaars case on me has changed from "he knows funky is town", to "not using same logic for beck's wagon", to "there's no way he could assume funky is town", to "he's justifying his sky read". Plus he is saying that I "know that funky is town" while at the same time is claiming funky is actually scum...
Guy's scum. Vote him.

- There are other minor points as well, such as this lovely little flip-flop:

can someone lay out the case on shattered? he hasnt contributed much and is pretty delusional but I have not really seen any scummy behaviour as such

Hmm. slandaar making sense. Credit where it is due.

Shattered is delusional and isnt a bad lynch

Wait, what? You just said you "have not really seen any scummy behaviour as such". I was actually starting to feel you might be town, but that feeling has died.

[Pine]

1651 is :goodposting:

I wasn't sold on Slandaar as scum, but the cognitive dissonance is pretty compelling.

I find it ironic that I've come almost full circle since my wall in 433 (I think that's the number). My two top Townreads are now some of my biggest scumreads, and I've got reasonably good Townreads on some of my former scumreads. Nifty.

A lot of my nullreads remain null, mostly due to their irritating lack of content.

[Hiraki]

Remind me who you suspect? I'm too lazy to ISO you.

Admiral, Pops

for the moment

(lol, not the person who pops suspected slipping!?!?!?!? WHY HIRAKI!?!?!)

[ThAdmiral]

Vijay

- First caught my eye with a terrible SV vote:

Sorgster, you seem to keep jumping on every available wagon. However, I have to agree that SV is an idiot. For fucks sake, you can't get it right this early. If you do, its a guess. You are bluffing.

VOTE: Shattered Viewpoint

YES, I'VE GOT SCUM. I'M JUST THAT GOOD!
Stop being cocky as fuck. Please.

This seems like you are trying to have your cake and eat it to. You are saying it is scummy for someone else to jump on a wagon, then you jump on it yourself. Furthermore it doesn't seem like you are voting SV because you think he is scum, but because he is cocky?

- He responds genuinely to what I believe was a joke by Slandaar that lynching SV would be good regardless of his alignment:

Actually, I agree with Slandaar's assessment of the SV situation. If he is scum, which I think he is, then we can all celebrate, if not, we have brilliant town reads that we can all rely on.

- He only starts producing proper content, and even posts a list of reads in 1120, after he starts getting heat in the game for the first time. My collected thoughts about it are in this post:

Unvote, Vote Soda

Vijay provided reads, he's trying and looks sorta town for it.

I think you mean: "Vijay provided reads, he's trying to look sorta town for it".

You were right the first time. vijay's defenses are all sounding like "I'm scum, but you have no way of knowing that."

Trying to play the game if and only if your neck is on the line is the definition of scummy. Unless you make pretty genuine "read my will after I die" cases.

I like this.

- Other small things such as the one pointed out by Revenus (note post 1490 was by pine detailing why Revenus scumslipped):

Hmm I don't know, 1490 made sense to me.

However anybody notice ScreamingHawk? He jumped onto another bandwagon,(mine this time), and sheeped somebody else.

VOTE: ScreamingHawk

The case on me is bad /yawn.

And vijay, that was terrible.


You can't go

"hey I agree that Rev is scum but here's a vote on SCREAMINGHAWK, look at me avoid suspicion if rev flips town"

[ThAdmiral]

I wasn't sold on Slandaar as scum, but the cognitive dissonance is pretty compelling.

Iknowrite?

[Beck]

1651 is awesome, more votes on sal

[Pine]

You know what's fascinating about 1499? He agrees that my case on Revenus is compelling, yet suddenly votes ScreamingHawk. Perhaps scum hedging their bets by talking smack about their buddy, but not advancing the wagon?

[ThAdmiral]

1651 is awesome, more votes on sal

Thanks dude.

[SodaSpirit17]

guys im replacing out. Sorry.

[vijay2vasandani]

Vijay

- First caught my eye with a terrible SV vote:

Sorgster, you seem to keep jumping on every available wagon. However, I have to agree that SV is an idiot. For fucks sake, you can't get it right this early. If you do, its a guess. You are bluffing.

VOTE: Shattered Viewpoint

YES, I'VE GOT SCUM. I'M JUST THAT GOOD!
Stop being cocky as fuck. Please.

This seems like you are trying to have your cake and eat it to. You are saying it is scummy for someone else to jump on a wagon, then you jump on it yourself. Furthermore it doesn't seem like you are voting SV because you think he is scum, but because he is cocky?

- He responds genuinely to what I believe was a joke by Slandaar that lynching SV would be good regardless of his alignment:

Actually, I agree with Slandaar's assessment of the SV situation. If he is scum, which I think he is, then we can all celebrate, if not, we have brilliant town reads that we can all rely on.

- He only starts producing proper content, and even posts a list of reads in 1120, after he starts getting heat in the game for the first time. My collected thoughts about it are in this post:

Unvote, Vote Soda

Vijay provided reads, he's trying and looks sorta town for it.

I think you mean: "Vijay provided reads, he's trying to look sorta town for it".

You were right the first time. vijay's defenses are all sounding like "I'm scum, but you have no way of knowing that."

Trying to play the game if and only if your neck is on the line is the definition of scummy. Unless you make pretty genuine "read my will after I die" cases.

I like this.

- Other small things such as the one pointed out by Revenus (note post 1490 was by pine detailing why Revenus scumslipped):

Hmm I don't know, 1490 made sense to me.

However anybody notice ScreamingHawk? He jumped onto another bandwagon,(mine this time), and sheeped somebody else.

VOTE: ScreamingHawk

The case on me is bad /yawn.

And vijay, that was terrible.


You can't go

"hey I agree that Rev is scum but here's a vote on SCREAMINGHAWK, look at me avoid suspicion if rev flips town"

First point: I have already responded to this after a query from you. Originally, I called sorgster out for jumping on any wagon without any consideration. However, I realised I had made a mistake and retracted my accusation. Furthermore, I placed my vote on SV because I believed he was bluffing. I had no idea that that is how he plays, and I believed it was an attempt to lead town and cause mislynches.

Second point: I did not think Slandaar was joking. I still don't think so. I still want to lynch SV because I don't see him as helping us whatsoever. Like Slandaar says, if he's scum yay, if not, at least we don't have to deal with his trolling and we can use his reads without having to wonder if he is messing with our heads.

Third point: there is nothing I can really respond with. I am guilty of not putting much effort into this game up until those reads.

Fourth point: I don't like voting unless I have something to add or if I get annoyed. ScreaminHawk seemed scummier to me at the moment though, and if you really think about it, what holds more weight? My own reads that I got from analysing an ISO or somebody else's argument?

[Slandaar]

You know what's fascinating about 1499? He agrees that my case on Revenus is compelling, yet suddenly votes ScreamingHawk. Perhaps scum hedging their bets by talking smack about their buddy, but not advancing the wagon?

I did huh? I do not remember this... good luck explaining.

[vijay2vasandani]

Lol Slandaar I think Pine is talking about me. I posted 1499.

[Slandaar]

Cognitive Dissonance != scum, its ridiculous really, both points stand on their own merits, cant answer either? call it cognitive dissonance and hey presto problem solved!

can someone lay out the case on shattered? he hasnt contributed much and is pretty delusional but I have not really seen any scummy behaviour as such

Hmm. slandaar making sense. Credit where it is due.

Shattered is delusional and isnt a bad lynch

Wait, what? You just said you "have not really seen any scummy behaviour as such". I was actually starting to feel you might be town, but that feeling has died.

OK you see, even after all this cognitive dissonance ThAd says he is considering me town but this is the absolute deciding factor, the above post. Now where is the problem?

Shattered was null so wasnt a bad lynch, does that make me go from hmmm could be town to lolscum?

no

ThAd is scum.

[Slandaar]

Lol Slandaar I think Pine is talking about me. I posted 1499.

Makes sense, it came after a couple posts about me so it seemed to refer to me, nm then...

[Slandaar]

anyways i might not be around much this weekend basically

SV or Pine is scum, probably pine.
ThAd scum
Pops scum
Soda probably scum
Funky maybe scum
Mastin meh maybe scum too

Vijay ehhh townish
Sorg not sure

Bv town
Sky town
Username/Faraday town
Beck town
TheAma town
Zel town
Zde seems town
Hiraki seems townish now
rev town I cant decide on if its slip or not but before that he was town

If I forgot you, well sorry but you are near the null category.

[bvoigt]

@vijay: Could you please respond to this post?

Both #1651 and #1654 are nice cases. But, I don't think they are today's lynches.

[sorgster]

Revenus goes quiet again and we start forgetting about him.

[vijay2vasandani]

(snip; check his post for the wall he quoted)

The reason why was because I had already provided ny scumreads, as well as the justification for my SV vote. Yet people still seemed to be considering me scummy. I was wondering what I could do. Which is why I quoted those posts to Zel1nk after that comment. He then disregards them and says I should make reads on every player in the game. I like how you took that out of context and made it look like I hadn't done any scumhunting whatsoever before that bvoight. Now I wonder why you would want to do that?

The way you said "Sorry Zelink. Shall oblige you", to me at least, shows that you saw his point, and you truly weren't scumhunting to the best of your ability. Didn't Zelink also misrep you and say that you weren't scumhunting when you'd already given reads? Why are you treating his misrep different from mine?

Sorry must have missed it. Anyway, the reason is because while Zel1nk may have misrepped me, I didn't see any scum motivation in getting me to post a ton of reads. On the other hand, you doing it is not offset with anything like his actions to get me to give more reads. However, I didn't really hold that against you, it was more of a joke because I have admitted that me not scumhunting to the best of my ability is a fair description of my terrible play.

[bvoigt]

VOTE: Revenus

I'm sheeping Pine, still working on a full list of ISO reads, and won't bother responding to anything else.

Actually, there's one thing I'd like to ask. Let me know if you have any important questions that I missed while skimming.

@vijay: Could you please respond to this post?

I guess that's reasonable.

[bvoigt]

Why did I randomly quote that?

[Beck]

You know what's fascinating about 1499? He agrees that my case on Revenus is compelling, yet suddenly votes ScreamingHawk. Perhaps scum hedging their bets by talking smack about their buddy, but not advancing the wagon?

I did huh? I do not remember this... good luck explaining.

1499 was vijay, not you

[Beck]

anyways i might not be around much this weekend basically

SV or Pine is scum, probably pine.
ThAd scum
Pops scum
Soda probably scum
Funky maybe scum
Mastin meh maybe scum too

Vijay ehhh townish
Sorg not sure

Bv town
Sky town
Username/Faraday town
Beck town
TheAma town
Zel town
Zde seems town
Hiraki seems townish now
rev town I cant decide on if its slip or not but before that he was town

If I forgot you, well sorry but you are near the null category.

you just accused me of admitting I was scum, so why am I town read?

[DarthYoshi]

Day One, Vote Count the Eighteent--hey, Let's Go Buy Lottery Tickets:

Revenus (5): Velzanath, Pine, sorgster, vijay2vasandani, bvoigt
SodaSpirit17 (5): ZeL1nk, IAAUN/Faraday, theamatuer, popsofctown, mastin2
vijay2vasandani (3): SodaSpirit17, ScreamingHawk, revenus
Slandaar (2): ThAdmiral, Beck
ThAdmiral (1): Hiraki
Beck (1): Shattered Viewpoint
sword_of_omens (1): Sky
Popsofctown (2): Zdenek, Slandaar
Not Voting (2): sword_of_omens, funkybike1

WITH TWENTY-TWO ALIVE, IT'S TWELVE TO LYNCH.
DEADLINE: NOVEMBER 2ND @ 10PM PACIFIC STANDARD TIME.

Prodding sword_of_omens.

SodaSpirit17 has requested replacement. Initiating a search for a replacement now.

[Pine]

Revenus goes quiet again and we start forgetting about him.

QFT.

1661 shows a great deal of paranoia.

In 1672, Beck has an excellent point. (God help us all, I think it's blizzarding in Hell)

I have this to say about cognitive dissonance: It is one of the best and most reliable scum tells. Cognitive dissonance is defined as saying one thing and doing another, or saying one thing and then forgetting what you said and contradicting yourself. It

can

come from scatterbrained Town, but it is far more likely to come from scum that are forgetting their expressed positions and taking advantage of opportunity presenting itself to attack Townies. Now, Town can change their mind, sometimes quite quickly. But a revelation by Town is usually accompanied by an "Aha!" moment, which generally leads to an explanation and strong "This is why I now think you're scum" post. The case against Slandaar includes a large number of these sudden, unexplained reversals, which are premium examples of cognitive dissonance in action. And before he makes the case, Slandaar has shown entirely too much logical, reasoned deduction to be the sort of scatterbrained Town to jump all around.

Slandaar is an acceptable lynch for today.