Imperial Intrigue (Endgame, OUT OF NOWHERE)

[MacDougall]

No I'm not a BP. I'm a VT. I'm just cool.

[MacDougall]

L-1 again! I can role reveal again!

I am the Lord of House Morvanus, rulers of the great city of Mos Anor and the lands of Anoria. I am the coolest motherfucker in all the lands and if you lynch me the Beran will cry tears like none before.

So you are the second BP? Now die please.

And if you want me dead, then hammer me you fool! You better hurry up! The longer it takes the more scummy you look pal.

[kdowns]

kdowns is town, but I've found that voting opposite of kdowns-town is how town wins games (see also 70s Smalltown).

I've never laughed so hard before, Magua.

This is actually true. >...>

[manho]

@magua, i'm not scum and thus not bussing andrius. but i think he is scum.

i start thinking macdougall is not scum by his recent posts. they don't seem to come from scum.

unvote, vote: andrius

[MattP]

You are trying really hard to buddy Agar.

You're trying too hard.

Andrius isn't buddying Agar in a scummy way. Either he is village or he is

really

ballsy with how blatantly obvious he would be about buddying. I don't think it's the latter because why would scum decide to take a ballsy move like that? It would serve them no purpose. Last time I checked buddying is never immediately perceived as a townish thing to do, so why would a scum that is in no immediate danger do it?

[PeregrineV]

I'm not hammering.

We lynch macdougall now?

Can we lynch macdougall already?
Or do we wait for Agar to come with another suspect that scum want lynched?

L-1 again! I can role reveal again!

I am the Lord of House Morvanus, rulers of the great city of Mos Anor and the lands of Anoria. I am the coolest motherfucker in all the lands and if you lynch me the Beran will cry tears like none before.

So you are the second BP? Now die please.

Vezok- Why are you calling for MacDougall to die yet refusing to vote him?

[vezokpiraka]

FAIL.

unvote vote macdougall

I thought I was already voting him. I have no idea how that happened.

[Nero Cain]

Well certainly not! It would be much better for town if one of Andrius or Magua were lynched imo. In saying that, I don't see that happening and I am worth lynching more than manho, Vezok, MattP or Bogre (even though I have my vote on him) because they would be easy lynches and none of them have done enough to really reveal anything about any other players.

To me you were continuously asking to be lynched and "the only way the remaining scum will get outed is upon my lynch." seems a whole hecka lot like you believed lynching you was in our best interest. So to me this just looks like a buncha

ATE

bull


Mac, Manho, EC, Vezok

[MattP]

And we are at L-1 once again.

[MacDougall]

Well certainly not! It would be much better for town if one of Andrius or Magua were lynched imo. In saying that, I don't see that happening and I am worth lynching more than manho, Vezok, MattP or Bogre (even though I have my vote on him) because they would be easy lynches and none of them have done enough to really reveal anything about any other players.

To me you were continuously asking to be lynched and "the only way the remaining scum will get outed is upon my lynch." seems a whole hecka lot like you believed lynching you was in our best interest. So to me this just looks like a buncha

ATE

bull


Mac, Manho, EC, Vezok

Okay well I do think that me getting lynched is a better move than a likely alternative and seems very likely to happen, hence why I was asking. As for it being THE BEST LYNCH, then no, because the best lynch would be scum obviously.

[MacDougall]

It's not really the done thing for a town player to self hammer right?

I really want to though.

[PeregrineV]

FAIL.

unvote vote macdougall

I thought I was already voting him. I have no idea how that happened.

You lost track of your vote? And after posting four times to lynch Dougal?

I cannot reconcile any sort of town play with this.

Vote: Vezok

@MacDougall- no reason for town to hammer themselves ever IMO

[MattP]

FAIL.

unvote vote macdougall

I thought I was already voting him. I have no idea how that happened.

@MacDougall- no reason for town to hammer themselves ever IMO

Correction: No reason for town OR mafia to hammer themselves ever. It's called playing to lose.

[MacDougall]

Good to know!

[MattP]

Good to know!

Np babe, just thought you needed clarification since you seem a little bit confused

[AGar]

I'm sorry Agar, are you suggesting that my wanting an Andrius or Magua lynch is dumb shit?

I'm suggesting that going "LOLZ LETS LYNCH THEM INSTEAD" and being generally facetious about the game is dumb shit.

Hey AGar what do you think of EC_NonBlueScum?

I see EC-Scum. I haven't tried to pin him down to a particular faction, I'd just rather kill

all of the scums

.

@TOWN

Ok, let's sit down for a second. We need to fucking focus. This "OMG HE DID X LITTLE MINISCULE THING, VOTE!" shit needs to fucking stop. Now. Think about this. It's Day fucking 5. Not 1. Not 2. 5. We need to be pushing CONCRETE cases against people that can be listed off in a convincing manner. If you want someone lynched, you'd better be fucking pushing a solid case with an actual effort to get that bastard lynched. No more "LOLZ VOTES FOR PRESSURE!!!" Quit the ADD, cut the shit and start playing like you actually plan on fucking winning and not just jumping at every little twitch. Note these things, put them down and point them out, but for the love of god do not just go fucking ADD with your vote. MacDougall should be DEAD by all rights at this point. He's been at L-1 multiple times. He should have been at L-0 and lynched to death. Get your shit together please.

[PeregrineV]

I'm sorry Agar, are you suggesting that my wanting an Andrius or Magua lynch is dumb shit?

I'm suggesting that going "LOLZ LETS LYNCH THEM INSTEAD" and being generally facetious about the game is dumb shit.

Hey AGar what do you think of EC_NonBlueScum?

I see EC-Scum. I haven't tried to pin him down to a particular faction, I'd just rather kill

all of the scums

.

@TOWN

Ok, let's sit down for a second. We need to fucking focus. This "OMG HE DID X LITTLE MINISCULE THING, VOTE!" shit needs to fucking stop. Now. Think about this. It's Day fucking 5. Not 1. Not 2. 5. We need to be pushing CONCRETE cases against people that can be listed off in a convincing manner. If you want someone lynched, you'd better be fucking pushing a solid case with an actual effort to get that bastard lynched. No more "LOLZ VOTES FOR PRESSURE!!!" Quit the ADD, cut the shit and start playing like you actually plan on fucking winning and not just jumping at every little twitch. Note these things, put them down and point them out, but for the love of god do not just go fucking ADD with your vote. MacDougall should be DEAD by all rights at this point. He's been at L-1 multiple times. He should have been at L-0 and lynched to death. Get your shit together please.

You do realize that this is your primary case on MacDougall? He voted No Lynch at some point day 1, thereby proving himself to be "newbscum instead of just new."

[MacDougall]

Oh my God I want to hammer myself so hard just to make Agar look stupid.

[PeregrineV]

Complete and Total 100% Unfounded Setup Speculation

Take this with a grain of salt.

We have had two anti-town flips - Empking as Terran mafia, and StrangerCoug as House Bremburg. Now there are two possible theories to draw here.

- Night 1, we had 3 kills. SleepyKrew's death was claimed as a 1-shot kill by vigKdowns.
- Night 2, we had 1 kill. David Xanatos was fairly easy to work out as a Beloved Princess, however, and as such could have easily drawn two shots from multiple scumteams.
- Night 3, we have 2 kills. Shinki was an obvious kill as a gunsmith, and monk was obvious as a mason.

Option 1: We are in a two scum, no 3rd party setup. This is the one I feel more likely about, reflecting on the night kills and where they fell. JDGA was a fairly neutral kill, as was gandalf. SKs usually make bold, vocal kills because they want to avoid

all

attention, so as long as their target wasn't onto them - it's a solid choice. This would mean that House Bremburg is a mafia faction (and SC would have been a limited modified Godfather), and the likely numbers (based on common balance) would be 3 mafia left in each faction. 16:4:4 is a fairly balanced way to go for a setup. Worst case scenario for a really bad town, you're in a 6:4:4 pseudo-MYLO after 3 nights of play, assuming you suck at lynching scum, the 1-shot shoots wrong, and both scum factions shoot a different town player every night.

Option 2: We are in a two-scum, 1 SK setup. SC was the SK, by this logic. Tough sell on this is that two of the four killers on Night 1 (1-shot Vig, Terran Mafia, Other Mafia, SK-SC) stacked up their kill. Given the 3 deaths, I find it highly unlikely. I'd still say 15:4:4:1, but maybe 17:3:3:1 depending on how powerful the mafia are.

TL;DR: I'm bored and slightly intrigued by setup possibilities and figured I'd put them out in writing in case anyone actually cared to take an insight.

P-Edit: I'll get to you scum-man.

Votecount 5.1 Hotfix

MacDougall

(5)

:

Andrius, AGar,

MattP

,

EtherealCookie

, manho, Nero Cain, kdowns

Andrius

(1)

:

MacDougall

, Magua

Magua

(1)

:

EtherealCookie

Bogre

(1)

:

MacDougall

Not Voting

(4)

:

MattP, Bogre, vezokpiraka, PeregrineV

With 12 alive it takes

7

to lynch.

Since I keep seeing connections between players that may or may not exist, I want to address the setup again.
Night kills were 3(murdered, murdered, murdered)-1(murdered)-2(murdered, murdered)-2(poisoned, suicide).

At this point, thinking no SK.

Leaving it to be 6:3:3 or 8:2:2. My previous 24 player games with 2 teams, they were both teams of 4.

Can someone convince me that the current playerlist is NOT half town and half scum?

[Wraith]

Spoiler: Background

Ethnicity and Modern Avalon

The ethnicities of modern Avalon are a far cry to their ancient counterparts, this being due to the thorough efforts of the Duran of the First Empire in assmilating those they conquered - or exterminating them. In fact, the Duranic race as they were has almost completely died out - the number of klans that can still claim "Pureblood" status can be counted on one hand, not that the "title" grants any great prestige. The Pureblood Duran can be identified by their uniform blue eyes and jet-black hair, a combination seen nowhere else in the world. Modern Duran are more varied in their superficial traits, but the established look retains the black hair and adds steel-grey eyes to the mix. As a result of their heritage and "assimilation" philosophy, the Duran are the most diverse and mixed race in Avalon today, and practice the most tolerant domestic policies towards those of other ethnicities and nationalities (save for Juke, who are almost universally unwelcome in the Imperium). As many have noted, it is quite a strange paradox that the worst enemy of Republicanism...is also the most racially tolerant.

The Juke stand in stark contrast to the Duran, their interracial interraction and breeding having been focused inward throughout their history due to their geopolitics. Both the Juke and Duran mutually refuse to cross-breed or even interract socially in general, and with the highly xenophobic, isolationist nations of Benneria and Arkania as its other major neighbors it is unsurprising that the Juke have isolated themselves as a race for so long. The Juke have been strongly associated with red or auburn hair, and if a Juke does not share that color it is typically a lighter shade of brown. Juke eye color is almost universally green, with no other major ethnicity in Avalon sharing that color. A product of their milennia-long struggle with the Duran and the xenophobia of their neighbors, the Juke have adopted a xenophobic approach to foreign and domestic policy as well. Duran and practitioners of Patrianity are strongly persecuted in Jukara, and other ethnicities from the eastern half of the continent are met with coldness due to their Duranic-influenced cultural roots. Nevertheless, Jukaran citizens enjoy considerable civil-political freedoms, and due to their long support against the Duranic menace, Bennerians and Arkanians (and westerners in general) are warmly welcomed by the Juke.

On the other side of Avalon, the Terran are more than a simple nationality. The Terran steppes were once the site of titanic struggles between many varied ethnicities - the Terrans, Kolgar, Memnar, Derran, Rallish, and Keljaks are simply the names of the largest races, all lumped under the category of "Terran." Whereas the Duran assimilated the races they conquered, the Terrans merely asserted dominance over their conquered territories - expelling those, such as the Keljaks, who resisted their dominance. Terra has a long history of mistreating its minorities, a practice often attacked by the Duran and the west. Despite this, the Nationalist faction of the ongoing Terran Civil War has often declared the base of its platform to be "Pan-Terranism" - the unity of all the varied Terran races to work together as one to overthrow the western oppressors. As for the individual ethnicities - the Terrans originate from Kruskova itself; the Kolgar populate the regions surrounding the river of the same name; the Memnar inhabit Duran-occupied Terralon and the region adhering to the great northern port of Memnitz; the Rallish, long caught between the struggles of the Imperium and Terra, live in war-torn Ralland; and the Derran are a hybrid race, once part of the First Empire, of Duran and Terran, centered on the major city of Riev.

In the north, peace has only been a recent innovation. Byranid, Ivolian, Thane, Stark, and Cadian have long struggled for hegemony. The blonde-haired and blue-eyed northmen are a proud people, and take little stock in the weakness of others. Cadians have been caught between their northern heritage and the Duran, resulting in the Norcadians separating from their breathren, who remain united with the Imperium. After the fall of the First Empire, Thanes made a dispora across the Black Sea coast from their penninsular home - though Thaneland is part of the Imperium, Thanish minorities are common all across the north. The Stark have always been the most dominant of the northern races, notorious for the maritime raids across the Black Sea, into Terra, across to Benneria, and even into northern Continua. The Kingdom of Starkain is renowned for constantly switching allegiances - during one war siding with Benneria, another with the Terrans, and most recently with the Duran during the Great War.

Across the Avalon Sea is the continent of Troplica. Colonized by the First Empire, then conquered by the advancing tide of the Malarites during the Kingdom Age, the northern coast is split along dual lines. The Geptans and Treplicians on the eastern half are strongly Malarite, and draw ethno-cultural influences from the desert people of Sarthia and Brenkalla. On the inverse are the Freeden, the core ethnicity of the Antethian Empire. The Freeden were conquered by the First Empire only after a long struggle, and thus the two races gained mutual respect for each other. Though allegiances have changed throughout the changes of politics in history, the Duranic Imperium and Antethian Empire have long been steadfast allies for each other, and as a result Antethia maintains heavy Duranic cultural influences, though the genetic and superficial composition of both races are quite different as a result of their respective environments.

The last major ethnic sect on Avalon is in the west itself - Arkania and Benneria. The two have long been isolationist, most often fighting each other rather than the rest of the world, but during recent centuries both nations have diverged. In Benneria, the Kingdom Age was dominated by the great wars between the island's two primary ethnic groups - the fierce, proud, and warlike Norlanders in the north, and the more cunning, intellectual, and ambitious Bennerians in the south. Though the mutual emnity remains, the two groups united with each other midway during the Colonial Age, preferring to compete with the rest of the world rather than with each other. The result of the union was one of the largest colonial empires in the world, and as time marched on the Bennerian Empire has become less and less isolationist, now the most prominent western nation on the world stage; though the xenophobic, "holier-than-thou" attitude of the Bennerians and Norlanders still remains in strength. Arkania has been referred to as a "melting pot" of culture and ethnicity; this is due to its vast size, and the variety of races originating in its arid plains region known as the "Outback." Tolerance for its own components has come slowly over time, but now Arkanian citizens enjoy the most civil and political freedoms over any other nation in the world; however, Arkania is probably also the most racist nation in the world, having little tolerance for foreigners such as Bennerians, Jukarans, and their dark-skinned colonial subjects just across the Bay of Rezelia in Troplica. With its defeat in the Great War, it is unlikely that the powerful but isolationist nation will ever emerge as a great power on the world stage - though it certainly has the capacity to become one.

Votecount 5.2

MacDougall

(6)

:

Andrius, AGar,

MattP

,

EtherealCookie

,

manho

, Nero Cain, kdowns, MattP, vezokpiraka

Andrius

(1)

:

MacDougall

,

Magua

, manho

Magua

(1)

:

EtherealCookie

Bogre

(1)

:

MacDougall

manho

(1)

:

Magua

vezokpiraka

(1)

:

PeregrineV

Not Voting

(1)

:

Bogre

With 12 alive it takes

7

to lynch.

MacDougall stands at

L-1

Deadline for today is

November 10, 2011

[EtherealCookie]

Yes, Agar. I suggested the notion of lynching Vezok while keeping my vote on Magua. Sue me.
I wanted some reactions first.
This MacDougall lynch is so bad, and there's

definitely

scum on it. I like how Andrius said he'd be okay with lynching Magua, said he'd look over some reads and what not, but has remained voting MacDougall. I also like how he's defending Vezok despite his pretty scummy behavior.
Anyways, lynching MacDougall is a terrible idea.
I will push for the Vezok lynch now; his votes have continued to be opportunistic throughout. He has been behaving scummy for a long time, and he's been largely ignored for some reason. His meta suggests he isn't this blatantly scummy when town, so I refuse to accept the "he behaves this way" all the time nonsense. It's like he's not putting any effort in this game.

Unvote

Vote: Vezokpiraka

[Nero Cain]

if its so bad why did you vote him? and why did you ignore me the first time I asked this?

[MacDougall]

Why is a Vezok lynch better than a me lynch? Explain what he has done that I haven't.

[AGar]

I'm sorry Agar, are you suggesting that my wanting an Andrius or Magua lynch is dumb shit?

I'm suggesting that going "LOLZ LETS LYNCH THEM INSTEAD" and being generally facetious about the game is dumb shit.

Hey AGar what do you think of EC_NonBlueScum?

I see EC-Scum. I haven't tried to pin him down to a particular faction, I'd just rather kill

all of the scums

.

@TOWN

Ok, let's sit down for a second. We need to fucking focus. This "OMG HE DID X LITTLE MINISCULE THING, VOTE!" shit needs to fucking stop. Now. Think about this. It's Day fucking 5. Not 1. Not 2. 5. We need to be pushing CONCRETE cases against people that can be listed off in a convincing manner. If you want someone lynched, you'd better be fucking pushing a solid case with an actual effort to get that bastard lynched. No more "LOLZ VOTES FOR PRESSURE!!!" Quit the ADD, cut the shit and start playing like you actually plan on fucking winning and not just jumping at every little twitch. Note these things, put them down and point them out, but for the love of god do not just go fucking ADD with your vote. MacDougall should be DEAD by all rights at this point. He's been at L-1 multiple times. He should have been at L-0 and lynched to death. Get your shit together please.

You do realize that this is your primary case on MacDougall? He voted No Lynch at some point day 1, thereby proving himself to be "newbscum instead of just new."

You do realize that that is not my only case against MacDougall?

- General non-committal attitude on Day 1, enforced by the no-lynch vote, but also proven through apprehensiveness about making concrete statements and decisions.
- Overall lack of proactive and forward thinking play throughout the entire game, content to sit and ride on the coattails of others
- Early choosing of weak or easy targets as his "lynch preferences" rather than actively scumhunting.
- Lack of confidence in his own play or reads, leading me to believe that they are simply made up. See his post where he decides that because my read on him is wrong, that my read on other players must be wrong too (even a player he was voting for - implying that he believed that player was scum) and switching his vote from a player we mutually read to be scum to a player I felt to be town because all of my reads must be the opposite -

even though he had casted a vote for a player he had read to be scum, my opinion so greatly influenced his reads to cause him to lose confidence in that read.

[AGar]

Yes, Agar. I suggested the notion of lynching Vezok while keeping my vote on Magua. Sue me.I wanted some reactions first.

It's Day 5. Gauging for reactions is a play reserved for Days 1 or 2. Not Day 5.