Mini 1246 - Bizarro Mafia: ...Mate! Who won?

Whiskers · Post Post #450 (ISO) » Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:16 pm

Ffffffbahpost.

ace5993 · Post Post #451 (ISO) » Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:40 pm

In post 448, mozamis wrote:why so much activity from you earlier in the game ace, and so little Today? ps I genuinely did think you were town earlier, so massive props to your Double Bus strategy. But you have been far to cautious on the final day, trying to let me and Visc slug it out, and then plump your vote on the scummier looking one. Close but no cigar

Definitely not cautious at all, I went from a slight read on you to a pretty confident one. It's based mainly on POE because I'm convinced VE is town but still. I also like how YOU are the one today who has flip-flopped between me and VE depending on what the popular opinion was at the time and have only now become talkative right when it looks like you might be lynched.

Jedo the Jedi · Post Post #452 (ISO) » Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:56 pm

1 day, 16 hours, 44 minutes

until end of day.

mozamis · Post Post #453 (ISO) » Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:26 am

VOTE ACE

Yes , as scum, its always a good idea to flip flop around on the final day, and post stream-of-consciousness stuff like I have

Coming into today, I genuinely thought you were town. I then realised how quiet you were, and how relaxed visc was about his posting. In the unlikely event that he is scum, then props to him.
You on the other hand have mysteriously become quieter and quieter as the game has worn on...

VisceraEyes · Post Post #454 (ISO) » Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:36 am

Ace, no comment on the post I made prior to this one? The one with several quotes from d1 seeming to clear mozamis by way of association?

ace5993 · Post Post #455 (ISO) » Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:29 am

InternetStranger's first quote is weak as hell, I believe his "vote" on mozamis was mild bussing (remember, he was just agreeing with me at the beginning) that escalated when people called him out on it. Darox never acted on his suspicions on mozamis so that could easily be distancing. Saying my posting has decreased over the course of the game is a bad argument, everyone's posting has decreased. Admittedly I have not been the most active today but I've still stated all my thoughts.

I'll repeat once again: mozamis has bussed me the ENTIRE GAME until my vote landed on him, after which he becomes super-active in trying to deter suspicion on him. Why weren't you this helpful the rest of the game mozamis?

ace5993 · Post Post #456 (ISO) » Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:30 am

*sheeped

mozamis · Post Post #457 (ISO) » Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:48 am

lol at bussing

mozamis · Post Post #458 (ISO) » Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:52 am

I followed you for most of the game because you seemed very clear and logical in your scum hunting.
The fact that I am still here in LYLo is one major strike against you of course, as I've been your biggest supporter all game. In some ways, you've just been unlucky that viscera posted so much early today. You may think I am over simplifying, but in my experience the simplest reasons, or Occams razor if you prefer the buzzwprd, is normally right. I know Visc isnt scum, I know I'm not scum, so it must be you.
Still, you've played one hell of a game

ace5993 · Post Post #459 (ISO) » Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:08 am

In post 458, mozamis wrote:The fact that I am still here in LYLo is one major strike against you of course, as I've been your biggest supporter all game.

Right, I kept you alive just so I could turn on you at LyLo? That doesn't make too much sense

mozamis · Post Post #460 (ISO) » Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:06 pm

no, you kept me alive becuase I've supported you all game and you hoped I'd be dumb enough to back you in LYLO.

ace5993 · Post Post #461 (ISO) » Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:40 pm

In post 460, mozamis wrote:no, you kept me alive becuase I've supported you all game and you hoped I'd be dumb enough to back you in LYLO.

Back me in voting you?

VisceraEyes · Post Post #462 (ISO) » Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:19 am

Okay, I've decided. Based on the events of d1, if Ace is scum, I'm willing to bet my life that he would have rather voted for mozamis, having a GREAT chance of mislynching him rather than bus one of his mates.

If I'm wrong, I'd like to personally apologize to hiplop because he was right and Ace fooled me and I'm an idiot. :S

At any rate...

VOTE: mozamis

mozamis · Post Post #463 (ISO) » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:32 am

how much time we got left? Or have people made up their mind? Have you read my ISO Visc or Ace? Have you EVER seen anyone play scum like that?
Props to ace i guess.

VisceraEyes · Post Post #464 (ISO) » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:12 am

Play scum like what? Sheeping someone influential for mislynch after mislynch? Yes, actually, I have. I've actually played scum that way before myself. I haven't played my best game this game, but I'm pretty confident about this. Ace seems to be a fairly skilled player, and a skilled player wouldn't have bussed his mate when you were a possible 'mislynch' on d1. I just don't see it. This has to be right.

ace5993 · Post Post #465 (ISO) » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:42 am

In post 463, mozamis wrote:how much time we got left? Or have people made up their mind? Have you read my ISO Visc or Ace? Have you EVER seen anyone play scum like that?
Props to ace i guess.

Timeline of events:

mozamis sheeps me.
A mozamis lynch begins looking like a possibility.
mozamis starts playing "properly", and conveniently with a healthy dose of fence-sitting. With a lack of a strong townie opinion to latch on to first he voted TehBrawlGuy, when that went nowhere he switched to VisceraEyes, and when he saw I wasn't going to join him on that wagon he switched to me.

This is pretty textbook scum play, sheeping followed by extreme difficulty in forming an opinion/rapid wagon-hopping when you can't sheep. The only thing that threw me off was that you were on the IS wagon, but maybe scum thought it was far more certain that IS was going to be lynched (and thus a safer place to cast a bus vote) than I did. Once you get past that fact - based on your play today in comparison to the rest of the game... it just doesn't all add up.

VisceraEyes · Post Post #466 (ISO) » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:26 am

Ace if it's so 'textbook', why has it taken until now for you to say something to moz about it? If his play is so 'elementary', why wasn't he immediately your third target? I'm only basing my suspicion of mozamis on your play because honestly, I haven't seen any extraordinarily scummy play from mozamis this game aside from his sheeping. Am I just a fool?

ace5993 · Post Post #467 (ISO) » Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:03 am

In post 466, VisceraEyes wrote:Ace if it's so 'textbook', why has it taken until now for you to say something to moz about it? If his play is so 'elementary', why wasn't he immediately your third target? I'm only basing my suspicion of mozamis on your play because honestly, I haven't seen any extraordinarily scummy play from mozamis this game aside from his sheeping. Am I just a fool?

A large part of his scumminess is from today - it's not purely the fact that he was sheeping that's scummy, it's what he did after he finished sheeping. Town can sheep too but they usually play in the same style if they stop sheeping. There's been such a radical change in mozamis' play that it's ridiculous. This tells me that he was only sheeping to avoid being in the spotlight. Plus his vote-hopping today tells me that he's trying to find the lynch that everyone will like. He's been on everyone's wagons today, which is again different from how set he's been on his "reads" throughout the rest of the game.

Jedo the Jedi · Post Post #468 (ISO) » Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:24 am

Day is now over. Please send your votes within

48 hours

.

Jedo the Jedi · Post Post #469 (ISO) » Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:42 am

Official Vote Count:

mozamis (2) - VisceraEyes, ace5993

ace5993 (1) - mozamis

-----

You guys emerge the next morning to see the final tally. Viscera and ace quickly grab mozamis before he can run, and they string the noose around his neck.

"Ack! You...idiot...Viscera. Can't...you...see...it's...him," sputters mozamis.

"He's right, you know," replies ace. "You really should have listened to him."

Before Viscera can respond, ace pulls out his gun and shoots Viscera between the eyes. As mozamis is taking his final breaths, ace walks over to him and says, "Too bad about that sheep business. Did you know their end was slaughter?"

MAFIA WINS!!!

Congratulations to ace5993, Internet Stranger, and Darox for their hard-won victory! I will post my notes in the next post.

Jedo the Jedi · Post Post #470 (ISO) » Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:56 am

Alrighty then. I cannot believe the scum pulled out this win. Back-to-back scum lynches on the first two days is hard to overcome; however, ace certainly gave a stellar performance. We'll see what his scum buddies have to say about the double-bus.

On the very first day, Otolia tracked Pads to Viscera which confirmed to him who the doctor was. He never came out with it (for good reason), but in a twist of bad luck, he was the mafia's next target. In a very real sense, the town had some bad luck with the mafia kills, but this was counter-balanced well by their picks of the scum for lynch. (Scum did excellent with the kills, by the way. Tracker and doc on consecutive days, and amazing choices by ace for the end game.)

When IS was chosen to be the first lynch, I was actually quite shocked. Yes, IS plays a very caustic/bombastic personality which makes him look scummy, but I thought his idea for not announcing the votes on Day 1 was going to work. I myself saw some of the benefit in what he was saying. Once he was gone though, I knew it was only a matter of time before Darox was lynched. What is really funny about the votes after that is whomever ace was helping town target for the lynch was voting him. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess.

Finally, a nice little bit of humor is Pads protected ace everyday after the first.

I will post the scum QT if they have no objections. Here is the dead QT if anybody cares.

VisceraEyes · Post Post #471 (ISO) » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:01 am

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

My town game is fucking horrible. I offset it with awesome scum play. gg Scum.

Jedo the Jedi · Post Post #472 (ISO) » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:07 am

So, a few questions and an address. How did you enjoy the game? Do you think the concept is unnecessary, or do you appreciate the difference in gameplay? How did I do as a mod with general attention to the thread and contact with the players? Would you like to see the concept used again with varying setups (open and closed)?

Now, the address. I know at least one of you has a problem with my decision to modkill Thirdkoopa. This was not a decision I came to lightly. When designing this game, the reviewers said it might have a tendency toward replacement-itis. (I think that ended up not being the case because of the speed of the game, and kudos to you guys for not making that true.) I took that into consideration. When koopa vanished, I wanted to find a replacement quickly because he could create a big void and really hurt the town since the game moves so quickly. I PMed people I know asking if they would replace, I requested a replacement in the replacement thread, and I put the request in my sig. Nothing. I decided I would be doing the town a favor by eliminating koopa instead of leaving him as a wild goose after which the mafia could direct the town to chase. There was only ace left at the time, so I didn't feel like I was really eliminating any time for the town to catch the final mafioso. The game would have lasted the same number of days. I would love to hear feedback on this decision.

Pads · Post Post #473 (ISO) » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:29 am

Ah, well done, Ace.

The setup proved interesting. As always, I'm completely worthless with a power role's ability. Whoever I protect one night, I should just auto-vote that person the next day. Maybe it's because I don't value power roles at all, and instead I rely on scumhunting, which is what attracted me to this game.

Not having a 'hammer' that was instant was a little odd, and I think it might skew very slightly in favor of scum (as in, the person gets off with being slightly less suspicious for hammering), especially since, technically, all the votes happen at the same time (at night).

Not needing a majority to get a lynch was certainly interesting, but I think this aspect would normally favor the town a little, since they can see if a certain group of people are always controlling the lynches. In our case, with 2 scum lynched in the first two days, that wasn't an issue.

And, of course, I was highly in favor of the modkill, for reasons I stated in thread and reasons Jedo just expounded upon.

What is there to say? Ace, you eliminated the pro-town players one by one, took your sheeps to LyLo for the win, and managed to look mostly town the entire time. I can't recall another mafia victory in which I could say that about any of the victors, so hat's off to you.

As for the town, we had our problems, but our biggest one, obviously, is letting one person dictate the lynch the entire game. There's no good reason to allow that to happen, especially once the doctor is dead and unable to proctect the person that 'found 2 scum', yet that person lives on. Burden of Proficiency, indeed.

Some of us, myself included, probably gave Ace too much credit for 'double bussing'. The writing was on the wall for Darox. I don't recall exactly how the IS lynch went down, but I seem to recall Ace's contribution looking pretty genuine at the time.

Also, the inactivity and lurking. I spent the majority of this game wondering why some of you even sign up to play Mafia. And even worse, the

tolerance

of inactivity and lurking. VisceraEyes voted Mozamis in lynch or lose, and I know I certainly would have voted for Mozamis in lynch or lose, and I'm betting more people would have, too. Which is why the town can't let lurking sheep get to lynch or lose.

Anyhoos, gg. Thanks for the modding, Jedo.

Junpei · Post Post #474 (ISO) » Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:47 am

Not sure how Ace won.... other than the fact that no one but sheep remained with him at mylo.

Things for you guys to know for later games:

Don't use the "well it's X or Y, and X was fos'd first, so lets kill X". Then, to use that logic and not kill Y? I mean you basically went back on the whole reason for lynching me in the first place!

Jedo: I think that there is probably a way to make the mechanic shine more. Because there isn't much that this does except:

Force PRs into a 48 hour timelimit, as well as the mafia.
Lets mafia blitz on lylo

In my opinion, killing during the day as well as using PRs isn't super gamechanging, it is a very minor tweak that didn't affect me as much as the shorter deadlines did. But perhaps there was a missed point in there somewhere.