Animal Rescue: petsPick (Game Over!)

[Kublai Khan]

VOTE: lewarcher82
He's still not pretty enough.

[Kublai Khan]

There is a 'Roxi' in the VC.

wut?

[Kublai Khan]

There is a 'Roxi' in the VC.

wut?

Oh, I see it now. Interesting.

@mod: is that an error?

[Kublai Khan]

What made you think it was an error, KK?

Just eliminating possibilities (the comma after Roxi made me wonder if it was a transposing error). I agree with VP Baltar that it's most likely a double voting mechanic.

UNVOTE: lewarcher92
VOTE: Quilford

Because of sillyness.

[Kublai Khan]

KK clarify your vote on me.

1) Reaction testing. Your nervousness betrays you.
2) Move the game out of RVS if at all possible.

no prob. wouldn't want to rush your response about a single post.

Be fair VP Baltar. There were 2 whole words in that post he got a town read from.

[Kublai Khan]

ooo, pretty colors

So.... You, Quilford, & Llamarble are scum?

Good bussing, bro.

[Kublai Khan]

I honestly didn't think anything would come of it

If you didn't think anything would come of it, why did you add the disclaimer?

Tell me about your actual pets

, no details of course.

FOS: glowball

[Kublai Khan]

@Quilford: You didn't clarify the Sotty7-town read.

[Kublai Khan]

@xvart - what's your opinion of the lewarcher82 wagon?

[Kublai Khan]

I'm going to start policy voting every motherfucker who tries to use selfmeta.

If I were drinking something, that'd be a spit-take right about now.

[Kublai Khan]

Elaborate on what? I've seen you defend yourself with selfmeta a bunch of times. I found it to be a hypocritical comment.

And I take offense to the "useless and terrible" comment.

[Kublai Khan]

Elaborate on what? I've seen you defend yourself with selfmeta a bunch of times. I found it to be a hypocritical comment.

I'd love to see some examples of this.

The most recent example is in an on-going game. I don't feel like digging through old games to counter a pointless exchange, so consider the spit-take redacted.

VOTE: lewarcher82

First, I don't believe his claim. I'd prefer not to elaborate on why.

Second, I think xvart's been trying to prevent lewarcher82's lynch by trying two different counter-wagons since lewarcher82 has been at L-2 (on jasonT1981 and Quilford). Plus his arguments seem disingenuous. If we get a scum-flip, then we'll know who the partner is.

Third, I want to see if Roxi quick-hammers. It'll solve all the noise about it. If it's secret voting, it's scum.

[Kublai Khan]

Since when? It's a good plan. Pie'd be proud.

Yeah, a good plan for scum. Make scummy claim, when scummy claim doesn't save self, change claim to something more pro-town, guarantee death over night, somehow survive the night, drown town in "why you rascally mafia roleblocker preventing me from killing myself last night" WIFOM. Been there, done that, bought the souvenir program.

This.

[Kublai Khan]

I am Mao-Tse-Tung, and I am a town assassin cat. Each night I can decide to visit a player. If that player has a cat, I will kill him. If that player has a dog, I will die. The flavour is connected with the real biography of my former cat Mao, who was killed by a dog.

But why does he kill other cats? What's the flavor reasoning for that?

[Kublai Khan]

What if your player has a cat AND a dog? You'll die and kill them too?

You keep ignoring this question.

[Kublai Khan]

I'm here VP. We're entertaining out. Of town relations right now and I hate phone posting with all its useless and wrong autocorrefcting.

The "let's save lew" contingent is retarded. If the bestdefense they have for him is "he might only be an SK or maybe he's a vig that can't kill mafia" then he's a very worthwhile lynch and I don't know why were fucking around.

Less night kills = more days to scumhunt.

[Kublai Khan]

serial killers and mafia also kill people. but with that claim there's no way he's an SK.

listen, I think that particular role is worth keeping alive, but I think that with his plan of "so I'll kill myself overnight" we don't really gain anything. I think we either collectively say "ok, fine, we'll accept that you're probably town" or we lynch him now. advocating that a town read commit suicide for no reason other than to prove that he was town is...uh...insane.

unless he's a SK that only needs all cats in the game dead or something
which is a very zoraster like thing to put in the game

This. *AT BEST* he's a third party (assuming he isn't lying out his ass to begin with) who has no impetus to help find scum and can (& will) eliminate town.

If he's town, it's a humongous waste of a lynch. If he's scum, we'll know by the end of the night.

*Next Day*
Lewarcher82: "Gosh, I'm still alive. I don't know what happened, Mafia must have either roleblocked me or maybe glowball was lying about her dog-claim."

[Kublai Khan]

*Next Day*
Lewarcher82: "Gosh, I'm still alive. I don't know what happened, Mafia must have either roleblocked me or maybe glowball was lying about her dog-claim."

And then he gets lynched. Lynching him D2 instead of D1 is not particularly meaningful.

A lot of my reads right now depend on what lewarcher82 flips.

[Kublai Khan]

*Next Day*Lewarcher82: "Gosh, I'm still alive. I don't know what happened, Mafia must have either roleblocked me or maybe glowball was lying about her dog-claim."

a) Then we lynch him, most likely.

b) If he tried to kill dog-glowball, he would die...

I'm still not understanding why you want to give him a night of mafia-talking.

1) He posted something suspicious and got called on it.
2) He flustered under questioning and tried to mountanize something minor as a desperate distraction.
3) Made a false claim.
4) OMGUSed his main accuser as scum (and no one else)
5) Changed his claim.
6) Changed flavor of claim to match details that didn't make sense.
7) Avoided answering direct questions about his claim that didn't make sense.
8) Heavily pushing a "just let me live one night" plan when his role clearly isn't helpful enough to warrant that plan even if his claim wasn't crap to begin with.

How are you *that* blind to his scumminess?

[Kublai Khan]

I agree with Ghostlin...man up and claim dem reads

A lot of stuff is actually minor, but the main one is this:

Did xvart counter-wagon attempt to save scum-partner lewarcher82 by trying to push cases on town-jasonT1981 & town-Quilford?

@Amrun:

Tell me about your actual pets, no details of course. Just sharing, I'll go first. I have a puppy she's about 1.5 years and I LOVE HER she is fluffy and adorable!

This is a terrible idea. This equates you claiming a fluffy and adorable puppy. How is it possible that you do not realise this?

And besides, this is fishing. Say that someone tells you that his dog is a German Shepherd who can find anything when he follows his nose. You will just assume that this person is likely a cop. Now I am forced to wonder which one is the explanation of your behaviour. (1) Reckless town - who just won the "VI of the game" trophy despite quil's efforts or (2) fishy scum.

I'll unvote and sheep you if you can give me a plausible explanation for why town-lewarcher82 would have said the above now that you know his full claim.

[Kublai Khan]

@Amrun - You're filling in details that aren't there. If lewarcher82 had said "Hey, we really shouldn't reveal anything about our pets, we don't know if there could be a Death-Note type killer out there." (or some sort of awareness-raising similar statement that reveals his specific game mechanic), then yeah I would be on the same page. But he didn't, and you can't get away with just imagining that he did.

P.EDIT - A short conversation with my wife and I think i got ninja'd by 2 pages worth of posts. Egads.

[Kublai Khan]

Last, no animals were harmed in the production of this game. Human owners are killed, not their pets. The mafia is trying to kill people so they can take their pets to Petvana. Know that even the mafia wants what is best for your critter.

I am Mao-Tse-Tung, and I am a town assassin cat. Each night I can decide to visit a player. If that player has a cat, I will kill him. If that player has a dog, I will die. The flavour is connected with the real biography of my former cat Mao, who was killed by a dog.

But why does he kill other cats? What's the flavor reasoning for that?

NINJA'D. Mao was an extremely aggressive cat. No other cat in the neighborhood as long as he was alive.

@Cogito Ergo Sum - Why are you so terrible at this game? Why waste a governance on someone who is clearly scum and you would lynch tomorrow anyways?

[Kublai Khan]

I don't know why you think he should have come out and said "there could be a death note type killer." That would be SUCH a softclaim, and town vigs should always be in the business of not telling scum that they're vigilantes! Are you serious?

If he had said that, I would have been like HOLD UP WTF.

He responded with, "Holy crap, stop claiming animals because it's fucking dumb."

Guess what? IT IS FUCKING DUMB. HE'S RIGHT.

If he's telling the truth, he has reason to know why it's fucking dumb, so it makes PERFECT SENSE to react that way.

Except that part of his claim is that dogs kill him. So while he might not want to encourage pet claiming, he certainly would not discourage it either.

[Kublai Khan]

You do realize this entire discussion has been made moot by my governing lew, right?

Eh, not entirely. If Amrun can convince me that lewarcher82's actions are plausibly town, then I have to sheep her. Also this.

Generally, I think she's ascribing a motivation that isn't evidenced by lewarcher82's actual words. So we may just be deadlocked.

[Kublai Khan]

@Amrun - Primarily, I disagree with your assumption that lewarcher82 squalshed species-claiming on the grounds of "other specialty vigs may exist". I think you've ascribed him a motivation that isn't supported by his words.

On the second point (335), you do have a, uh, point. However it's the type of thing that if lewarcher82 had pointed it out as breadcrumbed proof of his role instead of coming up with a contrived "plan", I would have been more likely to accept it. Since he didn't, your thoughts about why he did what he did are overblown.

[Kublai Khan]

Where does it say that? I'm not seeing it. I'm just seeing "owners whose pets have outlived them," which is not necessarily a blanket statement on flavor, and perhaps just a nicer way of putting it.

post 327.

[Kublai Khan]

He's been governed...

Allegedly.

[Kublai Khan]

It doesn't suck. It means we can move on to less dumb lynches.

KK I THINK YOU OWE ME A SHEEP

Aren't governers only supposed to govern in twilight? I don't think it counts if he uses it before lewarcher82 is even hammered.

@ Cogito Ergo Sum - Is your mind absolutely unchangeable?

@Amrun - I'm regretting offering up my vote to you. What's the case on Llamamarble?

[Kublai Khan]

someone hammer now.

Agreed.

We can't move forward on another scum suspect until an attempt to hammer is made.

I'm prepared to offer Roxi a squeeky toy for a hammer vote.

[Kublai Khan]

@Amrun - Bah. I feel dumb. Give me the CliffNotes version of the Llamarble case since you seemed to be changing your mind on him.

[Kublai Khan]

How about you give me your OWN thoughts about me KK?

Null/leaning scum

You were awfully-waffly towards the lewarcher82 wagon.

You seems slimy. I wouldn't buy a used car from you.

[Kublai Khan]

He has been defending Glowball non stop
Glowball has not mentioned or even referenced him.

I've gotten scum in newb-games by noticing a similar pattern, but it's usually mutual avoidance and it needs to take place over a longer period of time.

I may have started late, but I already have the third highest post count in the thread.

Yeah, spamming the thread in twilight will do that.

A question for you:

And 'oh man I'll own the VI label!' can be read as "YES! AN EXCUSE TO BE ANTI-TOWN."

Glowball is town.

The idea is town tend to be more offended when called VIs whereas scum welcome it as a way to get away with more / be harder to lynch.

Contradiction?

[Kublai Khan]

D1 there seems to be a Jason - Qford - Sotty - Xvart thing going on in parallel to Lew-thing.People who took no interest in one / the other are POIs.

The Quilford-Sotty-Xvart-VP-Jason thing was much more interesting than the actual lynch.

Could you explain the "thing" and why VP Baltar got involved in it ex post facto?

I'd appreciate an explanation from Cogito Ergo Sum about the governing thing.

Also, what question of Sotty7 did glowball avoid? I missed that somewhere...

VOTE: Ghostlin
Because he's scummier than either VP Baltar or Llamarble.

[Kublai Khan]

VOTE: Kublai Khan

Can’t remember a single stance he’s taken all game; not good.

Really? Not one single stance? All game? That's really odd because I haven't been a wallflower.

@Ghostlin - You jumped on the lewarcher82 wagon for the "glowball is fishing" argument, then coasted the rest of the day by justifying it with setup arguments.

Your reasoning to jump on the Llamarble wagon is weak and looked like you were trying to groundfloor on the new big wagon. You're not coming up with original arguments against people, just picking up on other people's suspicions and echoing them more loudly as your own.

[Kublai Khan]

Why do I need to explain my fake governing? It's in essence just a reverse fake daykill. It probably would've worked better if lew had been active, but on the whole I think it was useful.

Useful for what? What info did you gleam from it?

[Kublai Khan]

Okay, sorry I've been busy and having been playing. The weather is cool enough to shut off the A/C which means "Fall Cleaning". Plus we just got some chicks and I've been working on building their eventual coop.

Debonair Danny DiPietro's case on Untrod Tripod is insane. Though I do agree with glowball in that I can sorta wrap my head around the concept, but to make a case like that this early in the game is ludicrous. Plus his vague hintings at potential "other reasons" means that he's not seriously looking to lynch Untrod Tripod, he's just looking busy for the cameras.

I think VP Baltar came out as making more sense in his exchange with Amrun. I don't think he's scum this game.

More people need to be on the Ghostlin wagon. It's the best wagon in the whole game.

xvart and Debonair Danny DiPietro are scum too.

[Kublai Khan]

Debonair Danny DiPietro's case on Untrod Tripod is insane. Though I do agree with glowball in that I can sorta wrap my head around the concept, but to make a case like that this early in the game is ludicrous. Plus his vague hintings at potential "other reasons" means that he's not seriously looking to lynch Untrod Tripod, he's just looking busy for the cameras.

The thing is, Triple D hasn't

made

a UT case. He was just commenting on me finding him scummy and then people kept poking at his reasoning. Case suggests he's trying to lynch UT which isn't actually happening.

Hmm.. you're right. I guess my mind is still reeling from the fact that he claims he can't remember a post I've made all game. His vote is on JasonT1981 for a secondhand reason so that's not townietactular either.

[Kublai Khan]

UT absolutely heads the list as most likely to be scum; Vi says he was flaky and unsure as scum in the one game meta she referenced; well today all he's done is bitch at me for a non-case. KK should be challenging him other than the one town-tell, his pre-lew D1 is junk and there's been nothing going on for him D2 either; he's pretty much coasting on Vi's town-tell of him. Ghostlin probably goes right here, third in line. xvart actually has decent content when he chooses to show up, it's just that he makes my activity level look decent.

I should be challenging Untrod Tripod? Why? I don't really think he's that scummy. I'd prefer to be invested in calling out my top 3 which are you, Ghostlin and xvart.

And coasting on a town-tell isn't scummy, BTW.

[Kublai Khan]

KK, why is xvart scum? Yesterday you were all over him because you said he was lewarcher's scumbuddy and trying to save him from a lynch. Today, you're saying he's scum because....

Sorry, I missed this.

My suspicion of xvart is mostly meta-based. In the two games I've played with him he's flipped scum and he was caught rather early because he pushed really terrible cases. His early cases on Quilford and JasonT1981 felt that way.

If lewarcher82 had flipped scum, it would have cemented the read. As he didn't, it's just a nagging discomfort.

[Kublai Khan]

His early cases on Quilford and JasonT1981 felt that way.

what about the jason case was nagging at you?

It's a "something's not right" case where his jasonT1981 quotes don't really contradict each other. Then he acknowledges the quickly growing "Quilford" (pretty sure he meant lewarcher82) wagon without directly commenting on it.

Would have been a brilliant find if lewarcher82 had the decency to be scum.

[Kublai Khan]

EBWOP: Bluntly, this game is putting me to relative sleep since a lot of time there have seemed to be a plethora of oneliners posted to it. I also have another game where I only very spordically post due to the fact it's lylo and town can't make up their minds.

This is the first time I've ever seen an "there's too little to read, I can't be bothered" argument.

[Kublai Khan]

Wait.. what? I get sick for a couple of days and come back to see my Ghostlin wagon decimated in favor of a Llamarble wagon?

And it looks like Llamarble is conceding without any kind of claim? Well... shit. That's a scum-tell in itself.

I'm not totally happy with this turn of events. I think there are better lynches for today.

[Kublai Khan]

I'm not posturing. Since Roxi is assumed to be the hammering vote, I'm prodding him for a roleclaim. This is a role madness game, so there's no reason for him to be giving up like a VT.

[Kublai Khan]

Don't say "there are better lynches" without advertising them.

Ghostlin, Debonair Danny DiPietro, xvart. In that order. Llamarble is probably fourth or fifth at this point. So I can be swayed either way.

[Kublai Khan]

@Llamarble: Could you answer the following that you skipped:

D1 there seems to be a Jason - Qford - Sotty - Xvart thing going on in parallel to Lew-thing.People who took no interest in one / the other are POIs.

The Quilford-Sotty-Xvart-VP-Jason thing was much more interesting than the actual lynch.

Could you explain the "thing" and why VP Baltar got involved in it ex post facto?

Also, go ahead and claim. I'm threatening.

[Kublai Khan]

Actually I takke back my previous statement, if we aren't going to lynch scum (Jason) then lynching me is fine.

I would really, really, really like to establish a site meta where we policy lynch anyone who says "lynch me". That so anti-win con that it borders on a blacklistable offense.

(And yeah, I know there are some situations where getting lynched is the right course of action, but this really doesn't seem to be the case.)

I tracked Reck to VPB last night.

That's unfortunate if it's true given that xRECKONERx can't confirm.

But since xRECKONERx was a roleblocker/jailkeeper, it's up to VP Baltar to confirm or deny your story (if he's able or willing).

[Kublai Khan]

We're not sure the third party is a killing role or not.
But yeah, VP being blocked on a night where there weren't as many kills as expected increases the odds he's scum.

Did Llamarble just claim Serial Killer?

[Kublai Khan]

VOTE: Llamarble

[Kublai Khan]

We're not sure the third party is a killing role or not.
But yeah, VP being blocked on a night where there weren't as many kills as expected increases the odds he's scum.

Did Llamarble just claim Serial Killer?

I don't get the reasoning here. Saying it's that 3rd part isn't a killing role and then pointing out VP was blocked....one of the things aren't necessarly like the others.

I also don't get why KK says 'serial killer' Llam here.

If he's trying to argue that the third party isn't a killer, the how are the odds of VP Baltar being scum increased?

VP Baltar needs to actually weigh in on whether he knows if he was blocked or not to confirm if Llamarble is a tracker. If Llamarble is a tracker, then it's unlikely that he killed his tracking target. If VP Baltar wasn't roleblocked, then Llamarble didn't track xRECKONERx and instead is claiming he did in case a tracker (someone else) did track him targeting xRECKONERx.

[Kublai Khan]

Prod dodge. I need to get my head back in this game. I'll tackle it probably tonight/tomorrow morning sometime.

[Kublai Khan]

Yeah, I'm back on the Ghostlin wagon. Xvart's been usurped by glowball on my triumvirate of probable scum.

VOTE: Ghostlin

There's a minute possibility that VP Baltar and Llamarble are gambitting to put Llamarble on the Town list, but it's a very low probability at the moment. I agree that "VP Baltar was a blocked SK" conversation should be nuked for the forseeable future. There's no gain from scum-hunting hypotheticals.

Quilford's behavior is puzzling to say the least. There's nothing abnormal about a tracker and (apparently) a JOAT with a 1-shot tracker ability being in the same game. I thought I was coasting a little on my townread, but Quilford is still playing "outguess the mod" after we already lost Round 1.

[Kublai Khan]

Would still love to see what the case on Ghostlin is...

This.

Post 568
My original unanswered case.

Since then:
Post 735
Justifies active lurking by pointing out worse offenders.

Post 785
The quoted post from Llamarble isn't scummy/deserving of a vote hop in the slightest.

Read Post 888 then Post 747

[Kublai Khan]

Post 568
My original unanswered case.

"You jumped on the lewarcher82 wagon for the "glowball is fishing" argument"

Let's look at how that wagon formed. Vi started it at the top of page 3. That's page 3, when not even all the players in the game had posted even once yet. Then, in short order, with no reasoning whatsoever, CES,

xRECKONERx

, and Untrod Tripod (my former slotholder) all voted for lew. Only then, in 61, did Ghostlin "jump" on the wagon, but at least he had the decency to put forth an argument against Lew. The other three didn't.

Huh?
Cogito Ergo Sum random voted lewarcher82. Then he jumped off when it became a serious wagon because he didn't agree with it and/or found Llamarble more scummy at the time.
Untrod Tripod random voted lewarcher82. Then he justified his vote and actively pushed for his lynch with (and this is my judgement call) sincerity.
Ghostlin random voted lewarcher82. Then he phoned it in the rest of the day with semantics.

Do you understand the difference in play? The random vote didn't make him scummy, the fact that he coasted on it makes him scummy.

Next, Ghostlin's original scumreads are here. No votes at all on Llama at the time, so to say he was "trying to groundfloor on the new big wagon" later is completely not taking into account his scumread of llama at the time.

Think about it. Ghostlin's "case" on Llamarble at that time was his non-contribution. Now factor in the fact that Llamarble wasn't sitting on the lynch wagon and he posted a bunch of reads in twilight. Ghostlin voted for Llamarble because he thought Llamarble was going to be an easy target. Ghostlin has been trying to be Mr. "Middle of the Pack".

I'll do more research on the claims on Monday but I'm not so convinced, especially when one of them is "he's posting in other games but not here". At least he's forthcoming about it. Jason, who's doing the same thing, keeps ignoring that charge.

You should probably justify your strong-town read on Ghostlin before the deadline.

[Kublai Khan]

Did CES ever address his fake governing and why he would do something like that day 1?

Post 603

The Ghostlin wagon is stupid, just like the Llam wagon was and there seems to be some sort of voting block with Sotty, CES, and Amrun when I ISO'd the mod's vote counts. It's rubbing me the wrong way.

Deadline is coming up. So either you need to argue why you're in favor of a no-lynch because you aren't putting forth any other option.

[Kublai Khan]

And who are these people?(Not sure why I'm bothering to answer your bait questions to begin with.)

KK and jason for example. they were both saying Ghostlin was scummy from way back and are just coming around now that the wagon is viable again. That has nothing to do with me, and everything to do with Ghostlin being the most popular lynch candidate today. Hell, even you were saying earlier that you thought he was scummy enough to lynch. Now you're apparently being "manipulated" into voted it, which seems like a silly accusation to be making given you were quoting yourself as to why you found him scummy.

Though I'd be more than good with a Debonair Danny DiPietro lynch if we can swing it (ha-HA!) at the last minute.

[Kublai Khan]

VOTE: Debonair Danny DiPietro[/unvote]

[Kublai Khan]

Dammit. Stupid phone.

vote: DDD

[Kublai Khan]

VOTE: Ghostlin