Mini 1243: Magician Mafia (Game Over)

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Man, it was satisfying to see that Junpei flip.

What did the Amazing passive do? I must know!!!!

It "did" nothing; Sotty/Zach's ability could investigate whether a person had that ability or not. You and Ace had the ability to back-up your claims while Locke/Snake would've investigated as "Not Amazing" in contrast to his claim which probably would've doomed the spot. Basically it was just a setup piece for a flavor cop who could return two innocents and a guilty with the right information/assumptions but obviously it never got used with the flavor cop dying N1.

[Juls]

I would have lynched Junpei any time. I was so suspicious of him all game. But, we kept pushing it to deadline and no one really supported it.

[Vi]

Oh and Vi, I absolutely loved your post restriction. I know it was annoying and you couldn't communicate for shit but it was so fun to read.

Apparently I was only slightly less understandable than normal

I originally just wanted to play around; the restriction started becoming an issue when I actually wanted to convince people to do anything. I lucked out a LOT with ace and Riggs getting somewhat forced into being my interpreter. Beyond that, I would have had to become one of those semi-lurker sorts who places a vote down and acts obstinate 80% of the time.

I screwed up D3 muchly much by encouraging all of the setup speculation. I apologize, but I didn't really know what to expect from a four-scum Limited Reveal game with only one successful kill in two Nights. I really should have kept my predictions more grounded.

4nxi3ty - To be entirely honest I think you could have rode a 2dumb4scum persona to the endgame. What really started making you ping as scum IMO was when you started playing to be serious once it looked like scum were getting the upper hand. But, live, learn, etc.

I'm willing to be patient with the new players because I can see that they all genuinely wanted to play/win, and I remember fully well when I was new and incredibly bad at the game - I only lynched scum by joining deadline wagons I opposed all Day. Or maybe that was me two months ago. Time is relative and etc.

Overall I'm pleased, DDD. You don't mod games often AFAIK, but this one delivered well. Thanks to the players for doing their best as well

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Overall I'm pleased, DDD. You don't mod games often AFAIK, but this one delivered well. Thanks to the players for doing their best as well

This is the first game I've actually designed and only the second I've ever modded, so yeah you'd be right about me not doing this often.

[VP Baltar]

the restriction started becoming an issue when I actually wanted to convince people to do anything.

Yeah, this was actually helpful to us when you were going after Juls. I just thought, 'well, good luck getting anyone to follow you. we'll just let Vi punch herself out and move on when no one can understand what she's getting at.'

[saulres]

Thank you so much for all the support, folks! I very much enjoyed playing with almost all of you (except 4nxi3ty until he "reformed"; then it was cool).

I'll respond in more detail tomorrow to other post-game comments. I just keep shaking my head, though, when people say I improved as I went on. I'm not sure how they can think that? I mean, let's take, for example, "the real kicker for me" in finally choosing between Amrun and Snake.

The real kicker for me is, I don't believe scum knew that Luxury was going to be vigged. I think they thought either Amrun or Junpei would be, most likely Junpei. (And I actually had PMed DDD to vig Junpei even before the day ended. I just changed it after second-guessing myself.) Luxury would be anti-Amrun and pro-Snake. It's WIFOM, but if you believe, as I do, that they had

no reason at all

to think Luxury wouldn't be around today, then it's much less so.

Yep, no way at all scum would expect that Luxury wouldn't be around on Day 5. None whatsoever.

N4 Actions:

Junpei Vig: Luxury

See, I don't think I improved, and I'm not sure exactly what everyone saw that makes them think I did. I basically followed the same pattern I did in all the other games I've played onsite: Days 1 and 2 I look very scummy no matter what I do, then people realize that it's just how I play and I look mostly town. Hell, in the other game I won, even after the game ended I had trouble making people think I was town...

(Actually I could say the same thing about Fishy in this game. When I was doing my full re-read-through, I kept thinking "Yep, Fishy's scum" and had to correct myself because it was well after he was lynched But I digress...)

I look forward to reading the QTs when I get more of a chance.

As to my "retirement" -- again, I thank you for your support saying that I shouldn't. The thing is, it's not my feeling that I'm not a good player and having so many losses before the last two wins (yay!). It's that, as you can probably tell, I overthink things too much. And by that, I mean I'm thinking about them

almost all the time

. Twice this game I woke up in the middle of the night and couldn't get back to sleep; if you look at my post times you'll see a couple which are way out of synch with the others. It's actually become unhealthy for me to play. It saddens me that I can't shut it out of my mind, but there it is. So Junpei, it's not because I lost my motivation -- it's because I had too

much

motivation

Finally (for now), DDD, I've thanked you in PMs throughout the game but I'm gonna do it again publicly. Thank you very much for allowing me to play in the game, and for running such an entertaining and intriguing mystery. The thing I liked about the first game I played (offsite, before coming here) was it was also closed, and I was trying to figure out who could do what and what the setup was. That's what I really like, and what I sorely missed in the other games I've played onsite. The flavor was entertaining and supremely consistent (I had often thought "If I send the tiger after Roy is it a guaranteed kill?" and laughed when I saw the roles and realized that Junpei suggested his own suicide.) Absolutely wonderful game.

[Amrun]

You improved so much, though. Being wrong sometimes doesn't make you bad. There's lots of speculation involved in the game no matter what. Speculation cant' always be right.

I just want to say again that I really enjoyed the flavor of this game, DDD. It was incredibly creative and meta-defying, so that's awesome. Design more games!

[Vi]

As to my "retirement" -- again, I thank you for your support saying that I shouldn't. The thing is, it's not my feeling that I'm not a good player and having so many losses before the last two wins (yay!). It's that, as you can probably tell, I overthink things too much. And by that, I mean I'm thinking about them

almost all the time

. Twice this game I woke up in the middle of the night and couldn't get back to sleep; if you look at my post times you'll see a couple which are way out of synch with the others. It's actually become unhealthy for me to play. It saddens me that I can't shut it out of my mind, but there it is. So Junpei, it's not because I lost my motivation -- it's because I had too

much

motivation

I know the feeling. Usually more as scum though. But that's something you have to learn how to control; unless it's super-urgent, just go back to sleep and get back to it in the morning. You probably won't forget, and if you do, it probably wasn't worth remembering

[Sotty7]

Yeah I would play in more Triple D games for sure. This was very good, thanks for the invite.

saulres the one thing you need to learn quickly about mafia is that you can never play a perfect game. You will be wrong more often then you are right every time you play, the sooner you are able to accept that the easier playing will become. I think your play in LYLO was excellent and you should take a lot of pride in that. You looked at what you needed to and even with all the WIFOM around you were able to make the correct choice.

But I do know what it is like to over stress about a game and have it actually effect your real life, it's not cool. Maybe take a little break and try again? I know I'd like to play with you again.

[Sotty7]

Important

[4nxi3ty]

saulres, I had the same problem sleeping when playing my first game. Parts of my brain were more active than I was used to. Running cold water over your head can help and playing some sort of ambient noise such as nature sounds or music when you sleep can distract that part of the brain so its is easier to fall asleep. I listen to the yogscast whenever I have trouble sleeping.

I even took a month break after playing my first game, so take some time to think about other things and come back refreshed. Because you are definitely good at this game.

[Shift]

Thanks to DDD for running the game. I had a lot of fun though I got bored near the end. Timezones and busy work schedules killed Regfan and I for communication, but even then I'm not really happy with my play this game. I hit 1 scum in a grand total of 6 pushes (Sotty, Spring, Anxiety, Amrun, Fishy, Riggs). Not exactly stellar play. I still had a lot of fun though.

[saulres]

I have a question: If Snake and I had won the game the night before day 5, would you have considered it a fair, or earned victory? Would you say that we deserved it?

I can't see why I would have thought it

wasn't

fair or deserved. Not sure why you think it might have been otherwise.

I just wish I'd shot Saulres now.

If you had, then it would've been CC, Amrun, and you in the final three. That's a guaranteed town loss no matter what Amrun did, but no guarantee of a scum win; it all depends on who Amrun would have voted.

It's going to be hard if he gets a scum draw to fake the same activity too.

I don't think so, to be honest. The first game I played (offsite) I was town who was converted to scum the only night the game had (very small player list). Day 2 we were in LyLo, and I was throwing out theories and posting with the same involvement level as you saw in this game or any of the others I've played on this site. (It's part of my problem as expressed above about not being able to shut the game out of my mind. I thank those of you who've offered ideas on what to do about that, but giving the game a rest is certainly going to be my first step -- I enjoyed not thinking about it yesterday )

That's the only time I've been scum, and I'm saddened by that. I'm jealous of Riggs, who got to talk to 4 different people outside of the game thread, about the game, all game long if he played his cards right. It's a problem I've had since my first newbie game here, the inability to have a sounding board (which is part of the reason I send the mods so much info and thoughts -- and DDD, what I sent you was only a very small portion of what I have...).

I realize with a hydra I could solve that, but I'm honestly not sure about how I feel about them, given that they get treated differently (although with 4nxi3ty's challenges of CC on Day 4 I see the downside of what I previously thought was an advantage).

Anyway, I've read the Mafia QT at least and skimmed some others, and it's interesting to see how everyone was thinking compared to how they were playing. VP, in the dead thread you said to me "Lynch the obvious scum." I'm not sure what made Snake obvious to you, because there were also things about Amrun which seemed scummy, at least to me -- as much as Snake's hammers seemed like a scumtell, Amrun's first three lynch vote placements seemed just as damning. Plus I ISOed her and reviewed her whole "Junpei since day one" thing and thought there could have been some early-game-bussing-setup.

I also don't think the game would have ended as it did if Junpei and I didn't vig the same person last night. That's the first time we saw the real tiger flavor, since we hadn't once killed anyone before that. Luxury would still be in the game so we wouldn't have been at LyLo, and I would still have been convinced that the tiger ate hearts, but I wouldn't have had any idea why my shot missed again. I would've gone crazy trying to figure it out.

Anyway, if anyone has any questions for me, I'll be glad to answer. I do have one final question, though, expressed originally by Shift.

Also:

VI

Y U NO GIVE GENDER

[Vi]

That's the only time I've been scum, and I'm saddened by that. I'm jealous of Riggs, who got to talk to 4 different people outside of the game thread, about the game, all game long if he played his cards right.

Be careful what you wish for. Who those 4 different people are is important, and I'm not just saying that because one of those 4 people shot him down. Let's have Sotty and rulez talk about the first Zachtown game...

VP, in the dead thread you said to me "Lynch the obvious scum." I'm not sure what made Snake obvious to you, because there were also things about Amrun which seemed scummy, at least to me -- as much as Snake's hammers seemed like a scumtell, Amrun's first three lynch vote placements seemed just as damning.

In the end it comes down to what's most plausible. That in turn requires you to know what scum are more likely to do. Although I can't blame you for wanting to lynch Amrun

As for that last question - Contrary to the (admittedly plausible) theory that I've been engaging in a 3+ year long prank, I have personal reasons for not doing so.

[saulres]

Subject: Mini 1243: Magician Mafia (Game Over)

As for that last question - Contrary to the (admittedly plausible) theory that I've been engaging in a 3+ year long prank, I have personal reasons for not doing so.

It's okay, I won't push. If (when?) I come back I'll still refer to you as female because "Vi" is a female name to me.

Also I read your Beginning Guide on the wiki at one point and found it to be helpful, especially your points on metas and PBPAs. Being aware of what you warned against help me guard against it when I did my PBPA, and I was surprised at some of the results. It was only after I started combining those thoughts with my setup speculations that I threw myself off, but when I went back to the raw notes late Day 4, well, that's when I said "Locke may have looked town but the Locke/Snake combo is scum? How about that. I should push it in thread, see what happens."

[Juls]

It's okay, I won't push. If (when?) I come back I'll still refer to you as female because "Vi" is a female name to me.

Actually Vi is and always be a Unix text editor in my book. I don't even say it as a word. I always say "V" "I" because that is what I call my text editor!!!

[Vi]

It's okay, I won't push. If (when?) I come back I'll still refer to you as female because "Vi" is a female name to me.

Actually Vi is and always be a Unix text editor in my book. I don't even say it as a word. I always say "V" "I" because that is what I call my text editor!!!

True story: Before I came to this site, I found that I preferred Vim to Emacs. I got lost in the Ctrl-<button> combinations within a good thirty seconds.

[VP Baltar]

VP, in the dead thread you said to me "Lynch the obvious scum." I'm not sure what made Snake obvious to you,

He claimed a guilty investigation in lylo when his role had been otherwise useless throughout the game. That's a pretty huge indicator he's scum.

[saulres]

Oh that was the timing of that comment. I don't see that as necessarily a tell, given that Amrun was already investigated once and there was a theory (mine, I think) that the reads came in downwards order.

Speaking of which...

DDD, how did you resolve what random result Locke/Snake would receive? I mean, if they got "Spoonman" from CC that would've handed them the SK.

[VP Baltar]

Our SK role was investigation immune. He would have just got an ability from our David Copperfield fake claim.

[Guy_Named_Riggs]

Saulres
Yeah talking with 3 different people was fun, but not on my first game as scum. That screwed me over in the end. I remeber thinking when I first founf out that I had a seperate QT with a townie I was like "Sweet! This is perferfect for me! I got someone who is 100% sure I'm town!" And looked what happened. I think, if it hadn't been Vi or any other experienced player who knew DDD or a lot about set-up speculation, it could've worked.

[Amrun]

Although I can't blame you for wanting to lynch Amrun

*pout*

[saulres]

Saulres
Yeah talking with 3 different people was fun, but not on my first game as scum. That screwed me over in the end. I remeber thinking when I first founf out that I had a seperate QT with a townie I was like "Sweet! This is perferfect for me! I got someone who is 100% sure I'm town!" And looked what happened. I think, if it hadn't been Vi or any other experienced player who knew DDD or a lot about set-up speculation, it could've worked.

I like to think that I would've gone a bit differently. When I saw I was Siegfried, my first thought was "There's probably a Roy, but I don't want to claim to early because he could be scum." So I think if I drew your role, I would have thought "Vi must be thinking I could be scum. What I'll do is make sure I clarify anything she needs help clarifying, but at the same time find reasons to find things her scummy -- make townies think that I'm not convinced she's town." By helping Vi out I think she would have kept me around longer, and by not being convinced she's town just because I "was", that it would make me look town to everyone else for when Vi was eventually killed. At least that's how I would've tried to play it.

[Guy_Named_Riggs]

I apparently don't think like you

[saulres]

I get that a lot