In post 1908, Oversoul wrote:
This is the type of WIFOM inducing content I expect from scum.
I'm sorry if I am the reason why 3 out of the 4 mafia are essentially dead. What have you done this game again? Oh right.
Oh and to clarify number 3 in my list of reasons why I am not Sk should be "logically, the only reason the SK would kill Pine is that Pine's roleblock on night 3 directly implicated the SK".
So you start to think about me as scum conveniently after I post this? This is before your alleged timeframe meaning that you would have seen this and taken it into account.
I will let this hold, Mastin.
Not entirely!
There's also Night-Kill Analysis!
(Which doesn't really help, but yeah, basically. Multiple pieces of the setup point to it being Oversoul.)
No, every piece of your speculative evidence that you twist points to me as the SK, Mastin. There is a clear difference.
I have a very hard time believing that the strongest two Power Roles in the game were randomly assigned to the neighborhood, along with one scum randomly popping in. It requires a severe stretch of my suspencion of disbelief, so to speak. Why not two VTs? Why not a weaker PR, like Thor or BV? Tracker is the strongest investigation role we have. Jailkeeper is the strongest protection role we have and could potentially have been a super-strong investigation role as well.
Like I said. It just doesn't make sense for that to be random. It looks deliberate, orchestrated and manufactured.
Mastin, I will
break
you
. Of course you have a very hard time believing that because your entire case hinges on the fact that this neighborhood was decided nonrandomly for balance purposes. There was a reason why EPM, Hoppster, and I withheld so much information from you all. It is for these very cases (crap) that we withheld certain aspects of the neighborhood in order to see how the people would react. I don't have EPM or Hoppster to support me on any of this obviously, but the Neighborhood was specifically chosen at random. The moderator made a keen note of it in our role PMs. There is a reason why Hoppster didn't flip Jailkeeper Neighbor. Because that is not the primary role. It was not something that he mechanically added into the game. That basis alone should put any doubt of randomly chosen neighborhood out of your mind. Non random, specifically chosen, would flip as such.
At this point, I don't know if this is town Mastin *imploding* on himself or if he is trying to emulate the Sexy Sedilla scenario (he was "sure" that Ludi was scum, got him lynched in a 1v1 scenario, Ludi flipped town, Mastin went on a sabbatical and self pity spree, and we won).
I am fine with lynching redFF or Empking today. Hell mastin, you can lynch redFF have, all of your "proof" in the world and I will still fight for your lynch or Empking's lynch tomorrow. Realistically, given redFF's play today. I want to modify the lynch order to Empking > Mastin > redFF > NS > Thor > Oversoul, but you will probably say "he is hiding redFF because he knows he is town and thus OS is scum!! lynch!!". I just
know
it. And don't give me that bullshit of "preemptive arguments are scummy" because that is the biggest load of horseshit ever.
Oh let me talk about that lynch order that I have been trying to post nearly every couple of days for the past few game days. I purposely put the lynch order in that specific order so that the SK would
hopefully
work from the most confirmed side and the town would work from the most likely SK side ending with a Lylo of the middle three people. When the SK decided to not go in that order and instead kill Xeras, I knew that the SK was PR hunting for the tracker which is why I was so pissed that EPM claimed yesterday because it meant certain death for him.
The fact that Mastin is attributing all of these reasons that
he
thinks are true for the Nightkills is amusing and also unsettling. I started to get suspicious of Mastin when he started to proclaim "I know who is going to be the lynch, kill, lynch, kill blah blah" because only people with reasons to say that (like direct influence) say that. Additionally, his completely crap push on Fatlikepig sent major bells off in my mind. Fat had a perfectly reasonable suggestion to prove his innocence and you all just quick hammered him like it was nothing. The SK
needed
that lynch very badly. That lynch alone is life or death for the SK. If we did not lynch Fat, we would have potentially lynched the SK, FORCED the SK to either kill the Commuter or hunt for the Tracker for confirmedness, or FORCED the SK to kill Fat because of his commuting ability anyway. That wagon has the SK on it. I am very positive about it.
Sure, there are two scum RBs which are unaccounted for. But without knowing who they're on, I can only work from what data I DO have. And the data I DO have says that you are the most likely.
No the data does not point to me as the SK because all of your evidence and data is circumstancial and you playing as if it is the truth and cannot be wrong.
Mastin's reply to my question about what he would do *after* my death is basically the response that I would see typical of an SK. He went for the scummier of the two more likely candidates and he would likely go on with his wallow posting phase similar to Sexy Sedilla and the tired posting he did in this game.
I am sorry, Oversoul, but you're wrong about you being Ludi. You're the anti-Ludi. Every fiber in me wants to believe you're town. Every single bit of me wants me to have been wrong in the case. Every part of me WANTS you to be town.
Because every part of me IS town. Every part of you WANTS me dead because my evidence is actually not hinged on circumstance like your "evidence".
I am at this point fine with lynching either Mastin or Empking. I truly am. I don't care what you think "Oh total OMGUS" or whatever the fuck you want to call it. If someone actually looked at the concreteness and truth behind Mastin's case you will see that there is no definite truth.
I have proved through VERIFIED flips the very basis of Mastin's nightkill analysis (the fact that people were suspicous of the neighborhood) is bogus because the neighborhood was randomly chosen and there isn't any role balancing from the moderator himself because NEIGHBORS weren't technical "roles" this game.
Of course. Then I realized after doing my work that if Oversoul was the Serial Killer, Thor would NOT be the NK. Evil was beginning to suspect Oversoul, and with Evil dead, Oversoul would have full uncounterclaimed control of claiming what has transpired in the neighborhood QT
The reason, ladies and gentleman, I ask you all to hold this dear to your mind is that this is the "foresight" that scared me earlier with Mastin. He knew that this WOULD help a case against me. He would be furthering an SK mindset by killing a very powerful town power role and he would also be subtly pushing a second kill through MY mislynch. This shows that Mastin acknowledged the repercussions of an EPM kill. The difference? He is applying it to me. If anything, this is Mastin FRAMING me for something I didn't do. Of course I can't prove that until I flip, but I, unlike Mastin, will try and PROVE it to you.
With Evil dead the SK no longer has to worry about a tracker result. Also, with Evil dead someone like Mastin could push this bogus crap saying that I was "tying up loose ends" or silencing the dissension among the crowd when in reality, Xeras and EPM were kills for the main reason of Tracker hunting.
This shows that Mastin has thought long and hard about this game and likely has a response to anything that I am about to post. It shows premeditation. While Mastin regularly does this as town, he messed with the wrong dude.
We know the David JK is a fact, and we know the N3 JK was actually Oversoul. There's nothing suggesting the N2 Empking jail is false, so I've been assuming it's true.
You would know that it is true based on the fact that you didn't kill him. Stop you guise and feigning of not having insider knowledge when you clearly do or you wouldn't have made such an elaborate case against me.
Mastin... here is my little pet theory that I am sure will just fancy the paranoia and skeptical processes of your mind. DavidX was clearly the SK nightkill option the first night. Why? He suspected Empking and was generally acting weird (refusal to answer questions and the like). Look at who the second SK/SK optional kill was... Empking. I can think of the main reason for those two coincidences in that Empking is the SK, but I can also come up with a pet theory as well. Just like with how you are painting the EPM and Xeras kill as kills to hush the people who are getting suspicious, a kill on DX would definitely seem like a kill to hush the people getting suspicious. A kill on Empking would probably be because many people had reads on him and the SK thought he was scum, thus furthering the suspicion aspect.
Mastin, I have showed you the pet theory for the "kill the people who might know too much" with Empking and David. Do you think that Empking would be more likely scum at this point? The "evidence points to him".
-For Empking to be the SK, he'd need to have targeted David or nobody N1. He'd need to have targeted Oversoul N3 and been a ninja.
You acknowledge the likelyhood of Ninja status, but you disregard it for other things. Why would I not kill Hoppster the first night, seeing how potentially dangerous to the SK wincon?
The nightkills are now going to be of Thor and NS leaving the now "suspicious because of Mastin's 'case'" Oversoul with the other suspicious players like redFF and Empking for lynch and Mastin if we No Lynch. We have two lynchs before we lose. I want everyone as of this moment to name their number 1 and number 2 choice. I don't care if it is me. I don't care if it isn't me. I want those choices.
Number 1? Empking
Number 2? Mastin
redFF's reaction to the immediate votes is "I don't give a fuck you guys are stupid for lynching me" and despite my pleadings to get him lynched, I guess he is going to stay and is appearing more town.
redFF, you are as nuts as Mastin.
I also love the fact that for Mastin, I go from being 100% scum to 100% town to 100% SK and for Empking it is Town > Mafia > SK as the game changed stages. He has been adjusting his hardheld convictions They are hard held given his wording like...
In post 426, mastin2 wrote:Trust me. Oversouls's one of my top two scum-reads, from what I've read.
He's not a mislynch.
Not this game.
and contradictions like...
In post 110, mastin2 wrote:Empking wrote:Mastin; Why didn't you notice that I didn't answer one of your questions?
I thought about it when I was away. I didn't notice it at the time because it slipped through the cracks, but later thought, "wait a sec. I think Empking's missing one of them..."
Updated reads as of page 2:
TOWN: Empking
Johog
Vifam
Xeras
Kcdaspot
redFF
SCUM: David
Fool Hardy
Secret Project
Oversoul
Estyn
(Note to self--check how many players are actually in the game. Five scum tends to require at least 20 players.)
Estyn and Oversoul have strengthened my scum-reads.
Since they take me a while to read, I'll get back to you on Secret+Kcdaspot's posts. However--
I noticed that Secret only answered up to 22. There are 24.
Secret: Why did you cut the last two out?
Additionally.
Secret:
What makes my questions to you subjective?
I'll get back to Foolish Fool. But,
Foolish Fool:
Did you notice my 25A/25B?
Fool Hardy:
Same to you.
Honestly, my vision is impaired right now. Seeing lots of black dots which make it hard to read.
Will get back with updated reads. This is through four, skipping where I mention I've skipped.
In post 1185, mastin2 wrote:Here, kinda.
Estyn was firmly null, though; I remember that much. Along with redFF. Don't remember who else I had as null.
I know, I know. I suck, I'm in the dark as to the game state, what claims there are, I've done zero visible scumhunting, but I AM trying. It sucks. If I read the thread, my reads will bias my analysis. If I take too long to do my analysis, then I won't be able to read the thread and determine how accurate it is. Hence, I need to figure things out, quickly.
(calling Estyn scum in his reads, yet stating he was firmly null upon a reread of his notes?)
and this despite wanting a major lynch on Fatlikepig
In post 1492, mastin2 wrote:Let's review.
1. Empking <--Prob-town. His overall feeling is town. Hard to explain. Coupled with his interactions with scum looking favorable, I sincrely doubt he is scum.
2. Xeras <--Prob-town. Blocks mean he couldn't submit the kill. Interactions in various places with scum strongly suggest he is town.
3. Foolish Fool (Haylen + JordanA24) <--Probably not town.
At first, it was process of elimination, but Jordan's posts came across as trying to coach, to be the middle ground in multiple townVtown fights, while letting them rip themselves to shreds. Kinda hard to explain, so I'll probably have to go into detail about this.
5. Nobody Special Vifam <--Prob-town. Vifam's Johhog interactions read as townVtown. Additionally, Vifam's interactions with scum players look favorable.
6. Thor665 Lady Lambadelta BomberMan <--Confirmed town, as far as I'm concerned.
7. projectmatt Fool_Hardy <--Scum. Fool_Hardy tripped my scumdar from his first post. Project Matt continued the trend. I've touched the surface of why he's scum with my in-thread posting, but it's just the tip of the iceberg on this guy.
8. David Xanatos <--Prob-town. David's interactions here are a dead-ringer for Neruzian Era Big. I'm sure there are other games as well. Additionally, he kinda comes across as potential mislynch material for the scum.
9. Oversoul <--Confirmed town.
10. Ironhead MintKitten <--Prob-scum. His logic seems extremely motivated by a scum perspective on the game, as well as his suspicious interactions thusfar in the game.
11. TOGTFO LordChronos <--Pretty much confirmed town, as far as I'm concerned.
12. fatlikepig LTP Mafia <--Prob-town. His interactions with scum paint a STRONG picture of him being town.
13. evilpacman18 <--Confirmed town.
14. redFF <--Confirmed town.
Tl;dr: Ironhead, Project Matt, or Foolish Fool should be lynched today.
Mastin's iso is relatively poor only voting me, EPM, and Ironhead each when they were the biggest wagons of the time. He was convienently missing for the large part of the first few days and now is very active, but he used his meta to account for that. However, his meta only says that he
better as a replacement. Not that he lurks and is inactive.
Because I don't think logically, your mask of logic is absolutely seethrough to me. It helps that I was in a similar situation to you--this is your first scumgame, no? Breaking a solid streak of town, correct? Replacing into a situation which has become helpless? Yeah, I just had that in Flash Mafia 3, breaking my solid streak of town (in particular, VT) PMs. Because I've been through it, I know how people in said situation feel.
Additionally, you answered my questions. In much the way I was anticipating. What you couldn't have known (nor could I have known, either, until recently) is that by answering the questions about how you'd play as scum/town and what your plan was, you gave me your thought process and a view into your intentions. So, I can read your mind.
As for the third, that's because I've discovered now that I play better as a replacement than I do as an original player. "...But you're an original player in this game..." Technically, yes. I have been a player since the beginning. In practice, no. I was last on something like page five, active lurking just enough to avoid being replaced in this game. I was a dead slot, someone giving absolutely nothing. Like a newbie about to be replaced by a vet.
Effectively, I replaced myself. Reading 60 pages from scratch, with only glimpses into the future game. It effectively made me a replacement in this game. And as everyone knows, replacements tend to play better than who they replace, since they have a new, fresh, interesting perspective on the game and can work with material already established and come in with no personal biases already formed.
Because I looked at things in a way you couldn't have anticipated, I managed to see what you hadn't thought of, and from this all, I have nailed you, Ironhead.
(Though I must thank you. The realization that I play better as a replacement is new to me, as of this moment. That means I'll probably be playing more as a replacement in the future, to test this "mastin can nail the scum instantly upon replacing" theory I have.)
I'll point out how wrong Ironhead's defense is when I get around to making the case against all three. Though I really shouldn't need to; Ironhead's obvious scum at this point.
Mastin's convictions have for the most part, been completely wrong this game.
In post 1555, mastin2 wrote:Come to think of it,
Matt wrote:I think Oversoul is town. Not just because he lynched the mafia but just because of his explanations as to why he investigated so and so.
In post 1424, projectmatt wrote:I think that Ironhead's latest posts sound very forced in tone, specifically this quote. I'm not dedicated to a vote on him quite yet, though.
Before I clicked "submit" on that last post, it occurred to me that it may be interpreted it as a scummy approach to faux scumhunting. I submitted it anyway, because at this point any activity is pro-town and any inactivity is inherently anti-town.
Mastin bothers me, if he doesn't give the analysis he promises I want him lynched, but I honestly like to hold people on their promises, so I'm waiting for some kind of content.
Empking and Oversoul are town. Not because they lynched mafia but because Oversoul's explanation of why he did made me lean so.
David also towntold earlier as well.
Xeras is probably scum just because of gut. I need to read more of this thread because I'm disconnected.
This BLEEDS of inside information.
I can do a full ISO of Mastin, like I did in Sexy Sedilla. But I doubt anyone wants to go back there. Regardless, I think that Empking/Mastin/redFF are the most likely people to be the SK.
I have already stated my suspicion on of Mastin and I find it very convienent again that his case, that he says he began constructing on 11 - 4 - 11 was also the day I expressed my suspicions of him when he started "tired" posting as seen here
and I had already expressed interest that the Pine kill was because either a) the RB would claim who he roleblocked on night 1 or b) Pine has inside knowledge on Mastin's style of play.
That Pine kill did not look like it was the original intention because barring extreme circumstances like the ones above, letting Pine live is very beneficial... Plus, Mastin also expressed that he knew FF was the roleblocker before I outted it...
