Animal Rescue: petsPick (Game Over!)

[Sotty7]

Alright, I guess my 3rd party views on Lew where more because of suggestion from others saying we should lynch etc right away 3rd party. It got me thinking he was 3rd party or at least I did believe he was in anti-town role, just not scum.

I agree he had things to answer, and can understand the push for his lynch however Ghost pushing lets lynch 3rd party now! was off.

Show your working.

Ghostlin, what's your case on Llama? Bullets points will be fine.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@DDDP
There's a pretty big difference between saying that your argument for a scum read on me is completely illogical and "exaggerat[ing] your level of attack". I never said you were attacking me, merely that your "acting town is scummy" argument is completely insane. Which it is. Especially at the beginning of Day 2.

No, it's only "insane" when you present it as a base contradiction like you keep doing. For the people who've actually thought about what I'm saying they recognize that it's a not inaccurate analysis of current site meta.

[xvart]

So, for confirmation for the dumb kids like me in the audience: are you saying that you think the possible link between glowball and jason is just icing as far as confirmation is confirmed? You believe they're both scum (and hence probably buddies unless there's third party scum in this game) and so the link between solidifies the idea instead of an associative read if one's town the other's scum?

I believe strongly that jason is scum and I believe that glowball has a higher than average chance of being scum (although my case on him is pretty circumstantial by itself). I think if/when jason flips scum it will increase the likelihood that glowball is scum. The associative link is jason > glowball, meaning jason gives us evidence on glowball.

Xvart, I see what you are driving it RE: Llama/Glow/Jason, but what do you think about Amrun and VP's heated back and forth earlier today? At the time neither of them were voting for the other just like Jason and Glow. Is the difference just that you have scum reads on one set of players and not on the others?

Honestly I haven't thought too much about it but I would say I picked up on what I did because of my D1 suspect pool and I think it was a little more obvious from what I recall because jason explicitly said "these two dudes are scum" and voted one and started arguing with the other. I don't recall either VP or Amrun saying at the start of their exchange that the other was scum but I could be wrong.

[Ghostlin]

The point was to look town.
More specifically to be transparent about my reactions to THE UNIVERSE.

The Llamarble case:

1) General uselessness (Fluff, lack of scumhunting).
Posts that indicate this behavior: 139, 200 (mostly the beginning of 200), 223, 340 (mostly a game mechanic that doesn't talk about scumhunting), 453-455 (he mostly explains how he came to the reads without any real analysis), 457, 484 (with this many posts, no wonder you were third), 490 (is really just waving himself around).

2) Lack of explanation on most of his town/scum reads: I've hit this point a lot, but he often will say X is town or Y is scum without really giving a case or much of a reason. Besides 'my ISO', the only reason why I think Llam's voting for me is because he didn't like the reason I voted for him via case. He did claim it was inaccurate, but Sotty, point #1 is the reason I voted for Llam in the first place. (Particularly since he listed me as a town read end of Day 1).

3) Excessive use of one or more of the following phrases, 'more to come', 'I'll do a deepread', etc. This is forgivable if he coughs up the goods, but yesterday he waited until the 11th hour to post a town/scum list. He never goes into detail why he suspects the way he does; and his case on me was really 'I guess I better have a case on Ghostlin. 'His ISO', and OMGUS.

4) I don't like #654. You can argue about meta until the cows come home, but it reads as an excuse to shift his vote off of VP onto a more poplous wagon.

5) #656 has either an associative tell with no reasoning or calling out three players as scum for no reason.

[Ghostlin]

why is CES scum?

Reasonable lack of scumhunting, the governor ploy last night seemed a big distraction ploy to me with not much effect, reads kinda active lurkish to me.

[glowball]

Okay I am not very good at explaining how my brain works but I will try my best to at least give you some indication of where I am at.

Scum:
Jason
CES
Xvart

On my radar:
Ghostlin
VP
Llamarble
Vi
Amrun

I am never really good at explaining how I get reads on people, which is probably why I'm so bad at this game but there are my thoughts.

[Vi]

1) UT - Apparently Vi's meta experience and VPB (and Amrun?) conflicts with each other because the game Vi referenced UT was scum while VPB seems to insinuate that such behavior is his town meta.

Are you sure you read what I was saying at all?

It's because I spent a sizeable amount of time going Llam/Jason are scum yesterday, and I don't see anything, and I mean anything in Llam's play that really screams to me he's improved any.

..."improved"?

[Amrun]

Actually, I think you do. Please proceed. I don't want quote stripe walls. Just give me the bullet points please.

Catching up, but this stood out.

VP, seriously?

If you don't want quote stripes, maybe you can try

reading the paragraph immediately following what you selectively quoted?

[Amrun]

Okay, nothing else to see, except Ghostlin trying to say that "refusing to give a case" is scummy, which is misrep since in that same post I gave several of my big reasons why I am currently voting for him.

[Sotty7]

Xvart, I see what you are driving it RE: Llama/Glow/Jason, but what do you think about Amrun and VP's heated back and forth earlier today? At the time neither of them were voting for the other just like Jason and Glow. Is the difference just that you have scum reads on one set of players and not on the others?

Honestly I haven't thought too much about it but I would say I picked up on what I did because of my D1 suspect pool and I think it was a little more obvious from what I recall because jason explicitly said "these two dudes are scum" and voted one and started arguing with the other. I don't recall either VP or Amrun saying at the start of their exchange that the other was scum but I could be wrong.

Well the whole point of the Amrun/VP exchange was that Amrun agreed with Llama and stated VP was scummy.

I think you are tunneling super hard here in that you are finding any reason you can to call Jason and Glow scum together. Jason didn't vote one and then hunt down the other, he voted Llama, further pushed him on replies and it wasn't until Glow showed up with this unhelpful post did the argument start.

To be blunt, I don't get your point at all and I don't see how it is different from what happened between Amrun and VP. It feels like fake scum hunting, picking and preening "facts" that best help your already formed premise.

[Sotty7]

Post 753 reasons Ghostlin's Llama vote well enough for me. Although I don't agree that everything he has listed is scummy, (number two for example) but there are other people I would much rather we lynch instead of Ghost. (VP/Llama/Xvart/Glow)

I'm struggling a little because a lot of my scum reads suspect each other. I don't know if that is some kind of major ploy or if I'm just in the wrong ball park or what. It's making me generally uneasy.

[Sotty7]

I'd actually rather lynch Jason before Ghostlin at this point.

But behind all those others.

[Vi]

My first readthrough - mostly to check votes - wasn't particularly helpful...

Amrun should never be lynched.
Sotty7 probably should never be lynched.
Untrod Tripod is probably Town.
Kublai Khan is more or less Town.
I can understand why people :dislike: Quilford but Census Taker, etc.

As for everyone else...
On a reread, Llamarble seems like the patron pet deity of Making Shih Tzu Up As We Go Along. Regardless of whether you think he's Town, that's pretty undeniably what he's doing. I'm actually disappointed his early wagon fell apart (yes, I know I helped that); the only reason I think he's Town is because his views align with mine - and I'm not really sure how much of his views are original to start with. Also, is it just me or has he mostly disappeared now that the pressure's off?

Ghostlin pushed lew D1 and didn't brook disagreement. Even I reconsidered at one point. I want to look back over his delayed suspicion on those three people he called out D1 and whether that holds.

VP Baltar loses points for making unconvincing pushes on Quilford and DDD. I remember something about Day 1 and I've already forgotten it.

CES is basically playing to troll. No wagon is a bad one except lew's, and good luck getting anything else out of him. I wasn't really sure before, but now I wouldn't be all that surprised if he turned out to be scum - the proportion of obviously Town things he has done hasn't been that high.

glowball is not as solidly Town as I remember. There was one point I remember where I wondered if she was acting.

This may disappoint, but xvart is a blind spot and I abstain on jason.

Five scum promised out of seven people seems too good to be true... Still, I don't think my Town reads are -that- bad.

[Ghostlin]

Ghostlin 747 wrote:
It's because I spent a sizeable amount of time going Llam/Jason are scum yesterday, and I don't see anything, and I mean anything in Llam's play that really screams to me he's improved any...."improved"?

In the continuum of scum versus town, he's not improved from the scum side of the continuum much from Day 1 to Day 2 there.

[Ghostlin]

Okay, nothing else to see, except Ghostlin trying to say that "refusing to give a case" is scummy, which is misrep since in that same post I gave several of my big reasons why I am currently voting for him.

Your tunnelling is beginning to bore me. I went back to Day 1 because you posted a tidbit at the beginning of today that essentally went, for your case 'Same reasons as yesterday, plus with the Llew/Lew pushes isn't genuine.' So I for giggles and grins went back to Day 1. It was mostly you and me arguing about semantics of if Lew was an anti-town third party if he should be allowed to live (I made the argument he's scum in either case), and after going over possibilties with you, you arbitarly decided that out of the numerous people 'on the third party' lynch, I was scum. Thing is, you never posted a case on why my play was scummy, Amrun, you just sort disliked the fact that I disagreed with you, and now you're just posting blurbs of 'Ghostlin must die.'

Whats. Your. Case?

[jasonT1981]

Alright, I guess my 3rd party views on Lew where more because of suggestion from others saying we should lynch etc right away 3rd party. It got me thinking he was 3rd party or at least I did believe he was in anti-town role, just not scum.

I agree he had things to answer, and can understand the push for his lynch however Ghost pushing lets lynch 3rd party now! was off.

Show your working.

Ghostlin, what's your case on Llama? Bullets points will be fine.

My big catch up D1 post had my points on that. I will isolate the comments tomorrow afternoon if you don't want to go back and look at it. It is quite in the middle of everything.

[zoraster]

Day 2

Amrun ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 8 )

Cogito Ergo Sum ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 8 )

Debonair Danny DiPietro ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 8 )

Ghostlin ( 6 )

Quilford,

Kublai Khan,

Llamarble,

Vi,

Amrun,

VP Baltar,

[/color]

(L - 2 )

glowball ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 8 )

JasonT1981 ( 4 )

glowball,

Debonair Danny DiPietro,

xvart,

Ghostlin,

[/color]

(L - 4 )

Kublai Khan ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 8 )

Llamarble ( 1 )

JasonT1981,

[/color]

(L - 7 )

Quilford ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 8 )

Sotty7 ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 8 )

Untrod Tripod ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 8 )

Vi ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 8 )

VP Baltar ( 2 )

Cogito Ergo Sum,

Sotty7,

[/color]

(L - 6 )

xvart ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 8 )

No Lynch ( 0 )

Not Voting ( 2 )

Untrod Tripod, Roxi,

Total Votes ( 15 )

Needed to Lynch [ 8 ]

Deadline: Nov. 28th at 20:00 EST

[xvart]

Okay I am not very good at explaining how my brain works but I will try my best to at least give you some indication of where I am at.

Scum:
Jason
CES
Xvart

I would like to make an attempt to give even a slight reason why you think this because this is literally the first time you have mentioned my name (other than one response you made to a direct question I asked you); because right now it appears as nothing other than because I have been vocal about a suspicion I have of you.

Well the whole point of the Amrun/VP exchange was that Amrun agreed with Llama and stated VP was scummy.

Thanks for linking that post. It reminded me that the reason I probably wasn't paying attention to Amrun v. VP was because Amrun was voting for jason and I don't believe VP to be scum.

I think you are tunneling super hard here in that you are finding any reason you can to call Jason and Glow scum together. Jason didn't vote one and then hunt down the other, he voted Llama, further pushed him on replies and it wasn't until Glow showed up with this unhelpful post did the argument start.

I think you are overstating jason's "pushing for Llamarble replies" in the post you linked because the first comment is asking for a proper case and in the second comment he talks about how high post count doesn't mean anything in terms of alignment. If jason is

pushing

Llamarble as scum it isn't very hard. Even so, there is a significant discrepancy between the effort placed in identifying glowball as scum and Llamarble as scum in jason's ISO; and it doesn't match his voting record.

To be blunt, I don't get your point at all and I don't see how it is different from what happened between Amrun and VP. It feels like fake scum hunting, picking and preening "facts" that best help your already formed premise.

If you don't see my point at all why did you say "you saw what I was driving at in this post? Why are you going to all the effort to defend jason here? I'm clearly interested in his thoughts and his account of his voting/suspicion record and not your thoughts and your account of his actions.

And furthermore, I find it especially interesting that you are going to all this effort to undermine my scum read of jason when two posts later you even say that you would rather lynch jason over ghostlin. Are you jason's buddy, too? Does jason have a sweet scum PR that you want to save? It seems to fit with the pattern of you jumping in on D1 when I was talking about jason being scum then.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

the governor ploy last night seemed a big distraction ploy to me with not much effect

^scum

(I mean, jeez, distraction ploy, really. That's barely even a thing. If I did it as scum, it'd be for town cred.)

There, Vi, you got something out of me. (Really, you seem to pick the worst games to be in with me so far.)

the proportion of obviously Town things he has done hasn't been that high.

I've done obviously town things?

Unvote, vote: 'marble

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Should've checked the VC.

Unvote, vote: Ghostlin

[Vi]

Unvote: Ghostlin

Quilford, are you sure you can stay in this game?

I would like for my Town reads to try to work with me.

[Amrun]

Why unvote, Vi?

[Vi]

This is why.

Readthrough the second. This is a Town listing in the sense that it gets scummier as you go down.

Immortal Tier

Amrun
Sotty7

That One Tier

Untrod Tripod
Kublai Khan
Quilford
Cogito Ergo Sum

That Other Tier

VP Baltar
jasonT1984
xvart

Scum Tier

Debonair Danny DiPietro
Ghostlin
glowball
Llamarble

I hate myself so much for steering away the Llamarble wagon.
It turns out that glowball hasn't done anything Townish or helpful at all in this game. My mistake for previously calling her Town.
One thing everyone in Scum Tier except Llamarble has in common is that they all pushed for lewarcher's immediate and violent death without regard to the alternatives. Llamarble just waffled like usual.
Most of the reason CES is where he is is because of the massive amount of (what appeared to be) genuine flack he took at the end of D1.
xvart is where he is because I don't really see him doing much that stands out with the people in Scum Tier.
DDD is peddling suspicion on people who shouldn't be lynched IMO and sticking around on jason.
Quilford and the mass third party speculation D1 bothers me in spite of how much I really don't want him to bother me after that Census Taker claim.

I actually would not be averse to trading a Ghostlin wagon for a Llamarble or glowball wagon. With that said,

Mod: Please prod Llamarble

[Sotty7]

And furthermore, I find it especially interesting that you are going to all this effort to undermine my scum read of jason when two posts later you even say that you would rather lynch jason over ghostlin. Are you jason's buddy, too? Does jason have a sweet scum PR that you want to save? It seems to fit with the pattern of you jumping in on D1 when I was talking about jason being scum then.

Again, you are missing the point. I have no issue with you finding Jason or Glow scummy the way you are trying to build a case is extremely poor. A pattern for you this game, one that doesn't fit with townXvart. Yes, I saw what you were driving at but it wasn't until I took a closer look at the whole Jason/Llama/Glow exchange did I realize how badly you were misrepping what went down. It doesn't matter that I have varying scum reads on all three of those players, a shit case is a shit case and makes me really want to lynch you.

[Sotty7]

I actually would not be averse to trading a Ghostlin wagon for a Llamarble or glowball wagon.

No chance of an Xvart wagon?

If not, I'd join you on a Llama wagon.