Mini 1238 - One After the Other - Over!

[BBmolla]

Should be reading once I get home tonight.

@Junpei: Why would clearing someone off of a joindate be scummy?

[Junpei]

BBmolla, it isn't inherently scummy, I just think that it is bad play, so I was asking Whisker why she thought it wasn't, in case I was wrong. But the real story here is how Whiskers responded to my question.

[Papa Zito]

The emo teenagers stood in a circle, staring at their shoes.

"Yeah well. Um. I don't care."
"Me either."
"I think that guy's bad."
"Why?"
"He's nobody special. I don't care."
"Me either. I'm going to cut myself."
"Ok."

Second Votecount of Day 4

4. Nobody Special (2): Killjoy, Whiskers
7. Ashblade (0):
8. chkflip (1): Nobody Special
9. Whispersilk (0):
10. Whiskers (0):
11. Pseudonymous (0):
12. Killjoy (0):

Players not voting: Ashblade, Pseudonymous, whispersilk, chkflip


With 7 players alive, it takes 4 votes to lynch.
The current wagon leader is

Nobody Special

at L-2.
Deadline: November 24th @ 11:59PM CST

[Whiskers]

Wow, the flavour is just exactly the same.

Anyway, Junpei:

Well if you think that trying to clear "somepony via joindate is absolutely asinine", then why did you, in post 946, try to come up with a logical and serious justification for it? Why did you not assume you were joking?

Because sarcasm. It was in the post you're asking me about and it's in post 946. I did, in fact, have a reason, but I was saying that his Join date Didn't clear him.

What you asked about was a bit of sarcasm tacked on the end. "If he had a 2008 join date (and did what he was doing), he'd be

completely

cleared by now."

[Junpei]

So to be clear, you're claiming that you were being sarcastic in 946?

[Whiskers]

You know what I mean.

Hiraki was clearing monk for having a new join date.
I said, if he's new, he shouldn't be setting up traps (it's rarely useful for a newbie to do so).
I said, if he was old (2008 join date), he'd be clear by now, for setting up traps.

Which ALWAYS works when you're experienced.

^Underlined for sarcasm. This is explaining the sarcasm in post... w/e. The early one. I know it doesn't always really work, but in the original pst, was being sarcastic. This is a more blatant way of being sarcastic, explaining the post to you.

Do you really not understand what I mean? I feel like you're trying to twist my words, make me sound bad.

[Junpei]

Whiskers, only true masters of rhetoric could portray such sarcasm in text. So to be clear:

- You disagreed that join date indicated alignment
- You were sarcastic when saying that if he had a 2008 join date that he was clear town
- You were sarcastic when saying that traps always worked when experienced

Alright, thank you for the clarification. Moving on, I'm not making you sound bad, whiskers. What is, is. Once I finish my read, we'll see what is and what isn't; at least, from my point of view.

[Whiskers]

BBmolla, it isn't inherently scummy, I just think that it is bad play, so I was asking Whisker why she thought it wasn't, in case I was wrong. But the real story here is how Whiskers responded to my question.

It certainly

seems

as though you're trying to make me sound bad. If the real story is how I responded to your question, then why do you thank me for the clarification? Why do you need the clarification if you're just going to attack me for how I responded to your question?

[Junpei]

Because when I wrote that post I didn't know you were being sarcastic in 946. It looked like you tried to over-justify something, and then realized it was insensible, and changed your story.

[Whiskers]

I used all caps. Should I have used italics for the word "ALWAYS"?

[Junpei]

whiskers, post saying that you are here, I have something I want to say.

[Junpei]

Just finished reading, will do ISOs and get out some detailed reads soon enough, but Nobody Special... that is an awful claim. Specifically where you RB empking, there is no kill, and you don't push on him when the day starts.

[Whiskers]

HEre, but not for long. Sorry I'm late.

What's up?

[Junpei]

Not for long? Well, do as much as you can in the time you have, and post it.

Reads on all players with BRIEF reasoning as to why. Off the top of your head.

Go.

[Whiskers]

Off the top of my head:

Killjoy - Townish. The scumtells he was attacked for early came mostly from being conditioned by epicmafia.com. His fake doctor claim is a little weird, but I suppose scum woul dhave stuck with it if it was working.

You - scummy; pseudo was scummy idr right now. He did something with some intereaction.

chkflip - null. HE was scum for a really long time and I don't want to stop calling him scum now. We'll see. Scum for apathy and being a jerkass. We totally had enough jerkass players here. I've been trying to get this guy lynched for the last three (?) game Days. The resistance to this makes me think maybe scum, but it's not the same kind of resistance as scum defending scum.

Whispersilk has been lurking. I don't fully remember,. I remember her being a nulltown read.

NS - admits to "not playing well," Admits to "not caring" if he's lynched, and yet, when he about to be lynched, he fights really hard (with nothing), and then when hammered, goes, "well, idfc."

Ashblade-- I vaguely remember him being a townread for something. Happened early in the game, I was defending him. I'd have to look back.


Also, I remember there being something about you (Junpei/Pseudo) being linked with Chkflip/Friend that I liked and strengthened my scumreads.

[Junpei]

chkflip - null. HE was scum for a really long time and I don't want to stop calling him scum now. We'll see. Scum for apathy and being a jerkass. We totally had enough jerkass players here. I've been trying to get this guy lynched for the last three (?) game Days. The resistance to this makes me think maybe scum, but it's not the same kind of resistance as scum defending scum.

So he's very scummy, you've thought he's scum the whole game, and his resistance is not scum defending scum to you. And.. he's null.

That's ridiculous. Care to explain this particular read in more depth? I ask because I see little evidence of you coming to any real conclusions in this thread pertaining to scumhunting. These reads aren't encouraging at all either.

[Junpei]

If I post a huge wall, will you guys read it?

[Nobody Special]

I probably will, if it's formatted well.

[Junpei]

Sorry for this coming late, although it isn't that late, but regardless; here it is:

Junpei's Reads

Italicising every instance of the word "Whisker" as to not allow anyone to be confused with "Whisper".

The Case Against Whiskers

Day 1:

• Why did you vote Whisper then Pseudo in the same post?

• This post should be accompanied with a monk vote... but you vote whisper?

• Bad post. Implies that twisting is not a scum tell and then answers a question directed at empking, not her. One which was asked by Whisper, in case you're wondering.

• Friend single handedly gets
  Whisker
  to unvote off of Whisper, but then
  Whisker
  proceeds to not vote anyone else, not even Ashblade, who her great friend Friend wants to kill.

• So whisper is town because she's new, but
  Whiskers
  is just a month older than Whispers, and claims to not be a noob. Her RVS theory link is bad because she isn't even doing it right and is completely missing the point. Then says she wants to lynch Monk, but how does that make any sense? First off, her vote is on ThKoopa. Second off, this post has NOTHING to do with monk at all.

• Will wait to judge Hiraki until whisper flips which is a bit strange because
  Whiskers
  is voting ThKoopa. In fact
  Whiskers
  thinks that Whispers is town, so how long does Whiskers plan to wait?

• Votes for...monk, basically a sheep of Ashblade, which is funny because ASHBLADE IS NOT VOTING FOR MONK. YOU ARE VOTING THE WRONG PERSON TO SHEEP.

• Oh, so the monk vote was just outside game influenced rage? I"m not buying that,
  Whiskers
  was voting for Ashblade, who is gaining steam as a wagon right now.

• Whiskers you did an ISO and stopped..? THE GAME IS NOT EVEN 6 PAGES LONG. There are only 6 posts in that ISO. And you stopped? This is practically a noncommittal read. Regardless, reads Ashblade town purely for having content.

• Make no mistake, this is backtracking on the Ashblade town read.

• Doesn't defend against accusations of faking content, instead points out that Ashblade isn't faking content, which was never implied from the preceding post.

• Whiskers says she only has 1 read, and it is a town read on Ash, AND that read is based off of having content, nothing more. Not what the content is, that is irrelevant!

• Asking for explanations of town reads on oneself which is generically bad play. Honestly I'm confused. There is so much wrong with this ISO that people haven't pointed out, I feel like I'm missing something.

• Can someone spell opportunistic scum?

• You can't remember the post that made you 100% have a strong scum read on Zdenek as opposed to your massive null reads not too long ago? Are you actually scumhunting?

• Says zdek is being uncooperative while in a conversation with him in which he is trying his best to cooperate with you.

• Let the record show that
  Whiskers
  finds bad play scummy, and also somehow finds asking if there is a miller scummy. Overall, enough reason to vote; but it begs the question, why wasn't he a scum read at all earlier on? All of these posts are after the post where
  Whiskers
  has no scum reads. And she just pulls them out of her pocket with no indication of them when she voted.

• Lol? Unvotes again but this time because Zdek sounds like she does when she is town who is being pressured? That's bad play, you can't use meta of two different people interchangeably. What makes this particularly bad is that you made a case against him, and he is your only recorded scum read, and you're going back on it because of this. Backtrack more off of town.

• Nothing to vote over? You have NO suspicions, and you feel that that was a scum move, then vote! You are just spreading seeds of suspicion everywhere without backing any of it up or committing.

• Holy backtrack/waffle/buddy batman!

• Asks what about her is townie... again.

• Says kill apathetic lurkers.. but what ever happened to not thinking that you should kill someone with just 5 posts;a lurker?

• Misreps pseudo from something which basically said "gut read"; changed it to "because you find me scummy"

• Another misrep... The conversation went like this: >is there any reason to think mute is town? >is there any reason to think that mute is scum? >if you can't see by now why there is, then you can't read.

• Several issues here: The fact that if Hiraki is scum that he'll keep dropping scum tells is irrelevant because that is true for EVERY scum, and is not a reason to not vote him at all. Secondly, you out Hiraki as likely PR, which is a bad thing to do from a town perspective. It's anti-town no matter how you paint it. Oh and you vote Zdek again; whatever happened to that meta of him being like you as town? Thrown out the window now that the wagon is getting full and you can jump on the mislynch?

Day 2 onwards:

• almost the same was true for you; practically no reads day 1. Evidenced by the fact that you vote Empking over 1 vote instead of any other analysis you may have gathered.

• out of place vote; you have a solid scum read (albeit is pure meta) on Empking, but vote Hiraki for... why? you said this so maybe you are going for another lurker lynch?

• You've hardly advocated for ANY lynch.

• Yet another slight backtrack and non-committed vote by
  Whiskers

• THEN VOTE HIRAKI. Quite clearly opportunistic scum.

• Just have to say: that reads shouldn't take you days to pump out. You should be able to just up and say who is scum and briefly why. You of all people (hyper-active onsite) shouldn't need days to come up with something to say.

• Whiskers
  ' reads and wow, I'm not impressed at all. First off, these aren't really reads, this is
  Whiskers
  going back through the game and ISOing people and doing pbpa with no links, but lets see what her reads are:
  
  
  • Waffling but says town on Monk
    
  • Says that Killjoy is very EM-like and that there is something up with how Killjoy only had 1 suspicion day 1 and then suspects
    Whiskers
    , but somehow Killjoy is town.
    
  • Ashblade is town for having similar thought process and for having content.
    
  • Chkflip is scum
    
  • Whisper is scum for I'm not sure why
  
  
• Also,
  Whiskers
  outed a possible bread crumb! That is INCREDIBLY anti-town. Town would be hesitant to do that because no good could possibly come of it, only bad.

• Okay.. so NS is scum... where's your vote?

• Hey look, you agree that sarcasm doesn't work over the internet! So why were you riding me about not realizing you were being sarcastic?

• awful awful post. Doesn't try to stop the monk wagon at all, just acknowledges that he thinks monk is scum and moves on, but goes on to waffle a little bit on his monk read a few posts later.

• You almost hammered on a town read? You would rather end the day prematurely than try to wagon someone else? You are hardly advocating at all for your opinion, you're practically coasting.

• Still haven't provided an explanation as to why he was only scum from being from EM.
  PLEASE RESPOND TO THIS IN PARTICULAR

• Classic "town is scummiest, I'd settle for my buddy, but town is scummiest".

In conclusion...

Whiskers

has done very little actual scumhunting as is evidenced by few reads, massive fluffing, votes not correlating with a town mindset, outing possible PRs inthread, showing distaste for the main wagons while doing almost nothing to stop them, lots of waffling/backtracking, being opportunistic, and having the lurker contradiction. I think that's everything... all my points are listed above, but

Whiskers'

play has shown me nothing town, and everything scum. I'm stymied that no one else is pushing on

Whiskers

.

Other Reads Include...:

2) Ashblade

SLIGHTLY TOWN

• What makes you think 3 scum?

• Other Notes:
  Activity stagnated, and then eventually (after a brief period of activity) replaced out. This slot was never under great pressure, so I find that not to be the reason of replace out. Also the account hasn't logged on since October 9. BBmolla now holds the slot after over a month of it being empty.
  @BBmolla
  : How close are you to being done reading and stuff?

3) Mute/Nobody Special

SCUM

• Not too sure on Mute. I can't see anything stick out as scummy to me, and I read Zdek's counterattack on Mute to see if I could see his viewpoint, but I simply don't understand it. I'll put more work into this later,
  but if someone can explain it to me, the better.
  Replaced out due to school, and has posted a little bit since, stagnated. Mostly his modded game though, so no big deal.

• For Nobody Special, almost every single post is bad. Things like this that show very little commitment or reasoning, but effect the game as they are votes. Very few credible reads too. Literally every vote is bad, and pretty much every post is bad, I don't know any other way to comment on his play other than to say ISO him and see just how bad it is.

4) Whispersilk

SLIGHTLY TOWN

• Very much liked her early game play, her interactions with Empking leave me thinking that she is town, but I won't credit that much because I have seen convincing bussing before. What I will credit though is that her thought process is transparent enough to where I find that I agree with her. But her play has stagnated and recently has given me no reason to think she is town.
• Also she says that she's reading an 80 page game which I can only assume is referring to Ninja Mafia by CSL. But as that game has ended, Whisper was scum in that game, and everything she posted late in the game indicated that she in fact did NOT reread the game. And I see no reason to believe that scum would reread the game and then not post substantial evidence of this. This is an odd lie for lurking.
  @Whisper
  your thoughts on this?

5) Killjoy

TOWN

• Really don't see any case against this guy. He's been scumhunting throughout, and been trying to push what he feels is right. His doc claim was... well what was it exactly? It was a huge risk. Had Empking been town, Killjoy would have been strung up. So, Killjoy is either confident town, or his chances of being mafia go quite up. I cannot find anything to indicate being unconfident, so I find no reason to disbelieve him.

6) Friend/Chkflip

LEANING TOWN

• Friend fixated on one point (the nervous trap) for most of his time here. I suppose I saw some scumhunting, but in the end Friend does what he always does (well not always, but if you're reading this, you have to admit you have an addiction), and replaces out.
  
• Chkflip gave an empty promise of reads on all the slots
  @chkflip
  would you mind doing this now? He has done a little scumhunting, but fluffed a more-than-average amount, and the highlight of his play is pointing out how bad Nobody Specials' claim was.

Vote: Whiskers

Nobody Special is a great lynch, but so is this, and Whiskers needs pressure to respond.

[BBmolla]

@BBmolla: How close are you to being done reading and stuff?

Doing it right now, don't expect the depth and quality of your catch up post.

[whispersilk]

Junpei, are you kidding me? I read every single post in that game.

Funny how you now claim that I didn't reread the game in question, yet DURING the game in question, you never mentioned anything of the sort.

Also, whoa fancy colours.

Also, if NS is such a great lynch, why not just vote him and concentrate all yer scumhunting efforts on Whiskers tomorrow?

[BBmolla]

Btw, you can hammer NS if you want, I can finish during night.

[whispersilk]

He's not at L-1.

[Junpei]

BBmolla, I'd rather not give you the opportunity to possibly collaborate with scum pals in your catch up post.

Whisper, my bad, I thought that you made that post while Ninja Mafia was in LYLO, but I was wrong. I should have paid closer attention to the datestamp on that post.

I won't just let Whiskers go, I want to draw this out and confirm my scum read on her, even if NS is ultimately lynched. I could die at night, and I would rather do this now. Especially if I"m right, I don't want Whiskers getting extra time and getting collaboration with scumpals at night.

Whisper, do you think that there was reason for Ashblade to assume that there are 3 scum?

[Whiskers]

I will respond to your post. In the meantime, things like,
"* Votes for...monk, basically a sheep of Ashblade, which is funny because ASHBLADE IS NOT VOTING FOR MONK. YOU ARE VOTING THE WRONG PERSON TO SHEEP."
make me go "wtf." Ashblade was, in fact, voting for monk. Ashblade had voted for monk in the immediately previous post.

There is weird shit like this that makes me unable to qualify the case as a whole, or just pick out parts to explain or defend from. You read my ISO with my alignment decided, I guess?

I'll tackle this whole thing. I'll do it later.

[preedit]
Why do

you

assume there are three scum?