Mini 1238 - One After the Other - Over!

[BBmolla]

BBmolla, I'd rather not give you the opportunity to possibly collaborate with scum pals in your catch up post.

Damn, gameplan spoiled.

Whispers probably town from what I've read. Whiskers is twisting other's words to seem scummy.

Also, Junpei, if NS and I are the mafia, then going into the night I won't have anyone to talk to considering he'd be lynched. Just saying.

[Junpei]

Ugh crap, yeah you're right... I was looking at the VC I forgot to look at the other posts. There was a VC posted like 5 posts before so I didn't bother to. Anyway, I have 2 scum reads, and there is 1 flipped scum, but I do not assume that there are 3 scum, I just happen to have 2 scum reads.

And I did not read your ISO with your alignment decided. I read through your ISO in the same manner as everyone else, and found you to be very suspicious, so I gave you a closer look.

I await your response.

pedit: I was considering the case where NS is not mafia, BBmolla. I see no reason why to enter night before you catch up.

[Nobody Special]

I could die at night,

This.

This right here.

We KNOW you could die at night, there's no need to try so forcibly HARD to act so town.

Ugh. HATE when scum do this.

unvote

Vote: junpei

[Junpei]

I don't see how that is trying so hard to look town... I was asked why I did not want to delay the whiskers case to day 5, and that is certainly a reason.

Now that you're here, what are your reads on all slots, with reasons? Your ISO shows almost nothing.

[Whiskers]

Sorry for this coming late, although it isn't that late, but regardless; here it is:

Junpei's Reads

Italicising every instance of the word "Whisker" as to not allow anyone to be confused with "Whisper".

The Case Against Whiskers

Day 1:

• Why did you vote Whisper then Pseudo in the same post?

I don't fucking remember. It was my first post of the game. I voted whispersilk because of some reasoning about something, and then votes pseudo, probably for RVS, probably bec ause he hadn't checked in.

• This post should be accompanied with a monk vote... but you vote whisper?

No, not really. I agreed "that I don't think monk is a good enough player to think that far ahead." I didn't say monk was a scum read. (Looking back, Friend's original post on this was because he didn't believe monk's "trap" was really a trap. I honestly don't currently remember my stance on that. Please, forgive me, it's been years and years.)

Then, Friend and whispersilk were bickering, and I said, "Friend's right," and Voted Whispersilk, something that Friend hadn't done.

• Bad post. Implies that twisting is not a scum tell and then answers a question directed at empking, not her. One which was asked by Whisper, in case you're wondering.

No, implies that Friend was twisting from, "nervous and sarcastic" to "paraphrased and sarcastic," exactly like I said in that post. I also said that changing the tone of a post to fit one's claims is sometimes okay. I stand by that. I do it later (in your case against me, no less!) and here, I didn't feel Friend had changed the tone to one that was non-representative of monk's original posts. Friend condensed it, nothing worse.

• Friend single handedly gets
  Whisker
  to unvote off of Whisper, but then
  Whisker
  proceeds to not vote anyone else, not even Ashblade, who her great friend Friend wants to kill.

In short, was a pressure vote. Should I have voted somepony else after? Ashblade wasn't a strong case, I didn't vote him. Luckily, TK presented a great spot for my vote in like, the very next post.

• So whisper is town because she's new, but
  Whiskers
  is just a month older than Whispers, and claims to not be a noob. Her RVS theory link is bad because she isn't even doing it right and is completely missing the point. Then says she wants to lynch Monk, but how does that make any sense? First off, her vote is on ThKoopa. Second off, this post has NOTHING to do with monk at all.

First: I was justifying my removal of vote from whispersilk. It wasn't a particularly hard or serious vote. I wasn't incredibly trusting of Friend's reasoning ("she's flail-town"), so I was justifying it to myself. ((I know, I know, this was in response to ZDenek's post, but I didn't really know why she was town either.)) My reasoning? Friend's: She's flail-town, and Mine: she's newish, and I'm in RVS.

I'm not doing WHAT about RVS righT? I'm missing WHAT point? IT was a link I had found just a few days before, (or maybe even that day), I posted it because it was great. ((btw, thank you for helping me find it again)) But how am I completely missing the point?

I say "I want to lynch monk." I was pursuing him on a line of questioning. I was scumhunting, even in RVS, which tied in to what I said before.
Other than that, idk why I was mentioning monk here.

• Will wait to judge Hiraki until whisper flips which is a bit strange because
  Whiskers
  is voting ThKoopa. In fact
  Whiskers
  thinks that Whispers is town, so how long does Whiskers plan to wait?

So?
...what's your point here?

• Votes for...monk, basically a sheep of Ashblade, which is funny because ASHBLADE IS NOT VOTING FOR MONK. YOU ARE VOTING THE WRONG PERSON TO SHEEP.

Dealt with.

• Oh, so the monk vote was just outside game influenced rage? I"m not buying that,
  Whiskers
  was voting for Ashblade, who is gaining steam as a wagon right now.

Vote: goddamnit

VOTE: monk

imma sheep ashblade here. Eh defends and attacks and doesn't afraid of anything.

More like, I'll sheep ashblade because monk is still pissing me off in [REDACTED]

^How about that? Also, I was voting for Ashblade... when? Maybe I just don't remember it, but it feels like you're making stuff up. Strike 2-- unless you can point me where you mean, when you say I was voting ashblade.

• Whiskers you did an ISO and stopped..? THE GAME IS NOT EVEN 6 PAGES LONG. There are only 6 posts in that ISO. And you stopped? This is practically a noncommittal read. Regardless, reads Ashblade town purely for having content.

Okay, well, I read four of them. #4 and #5 are walls. I read Ashblade as town for having content... doesn't that make sense? it makes sense to me. Posts without content are scummy; see chkflip. Therefore, on the flip side, posts full of content (not filler) are townny.

• Make no mistake, this is backtracking on the Ashblade town read.

No, it's not. It is, however, saying that, if I am sick of lurkers, and a player is not lurking, but posting content, I might be more inclined to favor them. I didn't back off, I didn't stop and say, "Oh, yeah, well, I guess he's not a townread then," I just acknowledged that it might not be the best towntell, and I moved on. Ashblade remained a town read, and he remained a townread for that reason.

• Doesn't defend against accusations of faking content, instead points out that Ashblade isn't faking content, which was never implied from the preceding post.

I dunno what happened here. Looking at my argument for the "content is a towntell" thing, though, maybe I was pointing out that they were using lack of content as a scumtell and this was the reverse of that. I really don't remember and hindsight is 20/20, but that's the best reason I can come up with now.

• Whiskers says she only has 1 read, and it is a town read on Ash, AND that read is based off of having content, nothing more. Not what the content is, that is irrelevant!

There's another issue in this post, but I'll deal with the one you addressed: I had a townread on Ashblade for his posting of content (already discussed, I believe it's a valid towntell), I list whispersilk as nullscum here, I still don't like her from the Friend/WS fight, and then monk I had dealt with-- I just didn't have any strong reads one way or another. You all think ashblade was a stretch-- I could have grasped for straws to look like I had some great reads, but I didn't grasp at straws, and I didn't have great reads. Why lie?

• Asking for explanations of town reads on oneself which is generically bad play. Honestly I'm confused. There is so much wrong with this ISO that people haven't pointed out, I feel like I'm missing something.

How is that bad play? Are you making up theory just to condemn me? I'm not allowed to question it? Gee, mafia should buddy town players all the time, they're not allowed to question it! Am I getting this right?
I asked Zden (as an afterthought, perhaps), as monk had asked him a post or so earlier -- a request which Zden had ignored.
But there was Mute, who said this:

Whiskers and Empking are my stronger town-reads, and I've my eye on Friend. Everyone else is in the middle.

I at least gave reasoning for my town reads. I didn't have many reads, but I had explained mine.

• Can someone spell opportunistic scum?

Can somepony spell refusing to answer questions?

• You can't remember the post that made you 100% have a strong scum read on Zdenek as opposed to your massive null reads not too long ago? Are you actually scumhunting?

Let's start here: When was I 100% sure of something? I don't even know what you're referencing here-- you're making this up? Putting words into my mouth? I didn't say anything here about not remembering a post...? or about having a 100% strong scum read on Zden.
I

was

saying that Friend looked scummy for resisting the Zden wagon and hunting lurkers instead. There you go, me acquiring reads.

• Says zdek is being uncooperative while in a conversation with him in which he is trying his best to cooperate with you.

Fuck, whatever, sure, MAYBE with ME. But I'm calling him out on going, "fuck this, you're a jerk and I'm not answering your questions" to Mute. UNCOOPERATIVE. Right?

• Let the record show that
  Whiskers
  finds bad play scummy, and also somehow finds asking if there is a miller scummy. Overall, enough reason to vote; but it begs the question, why wasn't he a scum read at all earlier on? All of these posts are after the post where
  Whiskers
  has no scum reads. And she just pulls them out of her pocket with no indication of them when she voted.

First: I find bad play scummy, I find asking about a miller scummy-- so? what does a miller have to do with anything? Does that make me scummy, or are you just pointing it out for fun? He wasn't a scum read earlier on because I wasn't focusing and hadn't done an iso or a case or anything yet. You keep pointing out how vague and readless I am -- and I am. I am until I go and do the ISOs to please monk.

Second: Because I pulled them out of an ISO, not my pocket. I went and found more reasons to be voting her-- I guess that's what you're saying is scummy? I voted her for the matters at hoof, then I built a case.
Actually, looking back, I'd put it like this: "Opportunistic case-building." Looks like I took the biggest wagon and expanded the case on it.
I felt Mute was in the right, I didn't have a vote out (I think?), and I voted against the other guy. Similar, in a sense, to my vote on whispersilk, except that this player already had a large wagon on him.

• Lol? Unvotes again but this time because Zdek sounds like she does when she is town who is being pressured? That's bad play, you can't use meta of two different people interchangeably. What makes this particularly bad is that you made a case against him, and he is your only recorded scum read, and you're going back on it because of this. Backtrack more off of town.

Why can't I use two metas interchangably? You can apparently use scumtells for all players, you can use towntells for all players-- let's put it like this: Acting the way in which Zden was acting, I felt like it was a town tell (like I act when cornered town). Universal across the board, right? Good thing I'll call it a tell now, instead of meta.
Yeah, I did make a case. I also get cases made against me as town. What am I supposed to say here?

• Nothing to vote over? You have NO suspicions, and you feel that that was a scum move, then vote! You are just spreading seeds of suspicion everywhere without backing any of it up or committing.

Again, this is me being transparent. I'm telling monk how I read it. I'm saying, "This looked like this to me."

• Holy backtrack/waffle/buddy batman!

IThis post exists because I had to keep explaining it and

keep

explaining it, that it looked scummy to me. I wasn't planning on pursuing it, since I knew what he meant. As before, why lie? I thought it looked scummy, could be considered scummy, but wasn't treating it as a big deal because I didn't think it was.

• Asks what about her is townie... again.

Yeah? At my old site, I'd always get townreads from players when I was scum. It makes me

super nervous

to be thought of and considered as town, because I feel like it's a scumtell-- like somepony's gonna turn around and say, "AHA, WHISKERS IS ONLY TOWN WHEN SHE'S SCUM!"
Yes, really.

• Says kill apathetic lurkers.. but what ever happened to not thinking that you should kill someone with just 5 posts;a lurker?

[Kill assholes who are also lurkers] verses [distract from my scumbuddy by hunting a lurker]. It's this distinction. If you don't understand, ask further.

• Misreps pseudo from something which basically said "gut read"; changed it to "because you find me scummy"

Sure, "misreps." He said one thing, I believed another thing. I believe he did

not

have a gut scumread against me (why is a gut read worth voting there?), and I believe that it was a OMGUS vote-- sure, call it a "gut read," you don't have any other case.

• Another misrep... The conversation went like this: >is there any reason to think mute is town? >is there any reason to think that mute is scum? >if you can't see by now why there is, then you can't read.

Uh, not, it didn't. Firstly, read what really happened, everypony, before you judge this one.
Secondly, I picked a particular phrasing. Rather than attacking Zdenek for Ad Hom and not explaining what questions of his weren't answered. I attacked him for phrasing it like that.
This is what you wanted me to point out:
>Is there any reason to think mute is town?
>yes.
>YOU'RE A DUMBASS AND I HATE YOU
This is what I did:
>Is there any reason to think mute is town?
>yes.
>Well, it's too early to tell.

Either that, or you think I'm misrepping monk, which, if I was, somehow, I was doing it in a favorable way.

• Several issues here: The fact that if Hiraki is scum that he'll keep dropping scum tells is irrelevant because that is true for EVERY scum, and is not a reason to not vote him at all. Secondly, you out Hiraki as likely PR, which is a bad thing to do from a town perspective. It's anti-town no matter how you paint it. Oh and you vote Zdek again; whatever happened to that meta of him being like you as town? Thrown out the window now that the wagon is getting full and you can jump on the mislynch?

No, not necessarily. scum don't always drop scumtells, Hiraki has a kind of strong personality, and I guess he always drop scumtells to try to stay alive.
I pointed out that he may be a PR, and again, this is his playstyle. He acts like he's a PR trying to avoid getting NKed. If he didn't want to be thought of that way, he'd change his playstyle? (Since it IS his playstyle, it's not outting him any more than outting him as a likely PR in any other game he's played up to this point. I'm outting his playstyle and what it looks like.)
Didn't you discredit my meta of him being like me as town? Furthermore, scroll up on that page. Zden does some more scummy stuff and I re-vote him. The wagon is no more full than before. When I unvoted, the wagon went from 5 votes to 4 votes, when I revoted, the wagon went from 4 votes to 5 votes. In that part at the very least, you're making up stuff to say I'm scummy. Call me a fencesitter, wishy-washy, but it's not like his wagon grew 10 feet since I unvoted.

Let's start here, if it's okay, we'll clear this part up and then I'll move onto Day 2?

[Whiskers]

EBWOP, New info in Red.

Sorry for this coming late, although it isn't that late, but regardless; here it is:

Junpei's Reads

Italicising every instance of the word "Whisker" as to not allow anyone to be confused with "Whisper".

The Case Against Whiskers

Day 1:

• Why did you vote Whisper then Pseudo in the same post?

I don't fucking remember. It was my first post of the game. I voted whispersilk because of some reasoning about something, and then votes pseudo, probably for RVS, probably bec ause he hadn't checked in.

• This post should be accompanied with a monk vote... but you vote whisper?

No, not really. I agreed "that I don't think monk is a good enough player to think that far ahead." I didn't say monk was a scum read. (Looking back, Friend's original post on this was because he didn't believe monk's "trap" was really a trap. I honestly don't currently remember my stance on that. Please, forgive me, it's been years and years.)

Then, Friend and whispersilk were bickering, and I said, "Friend's right," and Voted Whispersilk, something that Friend hadn't done.

• Bad post. Implies that twisting is not a scum tell and then answers a question directed at empking, not her. One which was asked by Whisper, in case you're wondering.

No, implies that Friend was twisting from, "nervous and sarcastic" to "paraphrased and sarcastic," exactly like I said in that post. I also said that changing the tone of a post to fit one's claims is sometimes okay. I stand by that. I do it later (in your case against me, no less!) and here, I didn't feel Friend had changed the tone to one that was non-representative of monk's original posts. Friend condensed it, nothing worse.

**

• Friend single handedly gets
  Whisker
  to unvote off of Whisper, but then
  Whisker
  proceeds to not vote anyone else, not even Ashblade, who her great friend Friend wants to kill.

In short, was a pressure vote. Should I have voted somepony else after? Ashblade wasn't a strong case, I didn't vote him. Luckily, TK presented a great spot for my vote in like, the very next post.

• So whisper is town because she's new, but
  Whiskers
  is just a month older than Whispers, and claims to not be a noob. Her RVS theory link is bad because she isn't even doing it right and is completely missing the point. Then says she wants to lynch Monk, but how does that make any sense? First off, her vote is on ThKoopa. Second off, this post has NOTHING to do with monk at all.

First: I was justifying my removal of vote from whispersilk. It wasn't a particularly hard or serious vote. I wasn't incredibly trusting of Friend's reasoning ("she's flail-town"), so I was justifying it to myself. ((I know, I know, this was in response to ZDenek's post, but I didn't really know why she was town either.)) My reasoning? Friend's: She's flail-town, and Mine: she's newish, and I'm in RVS.

I also am more experienced (I think) Than Whispersilk, but not on this site.

I'm not doing WHAT about RVS righT? I'm missing WHAT point? IT was a link I had found just a few days before, (or maybe even that day), I posted it because it was great. ((btw, thank you for helping me find it again)) But how am I completely missing the point?

I say "I want to lynch monk." I was pursuing him on a line of questioning. I was scumhunting, even in RVS, which tied in to what I said before.
Other than that, idk why I was mentioning monk here.

• Will wait to judge Hiraki until whisper flips which is a bit strange because
  Whiskers
  is voting ThKoopa. In fact
  Whiskers
  thinks that Whispers is town, so how long does Whiskers plan to wait?

So?
...what's your point here?

• Votes for...monk, basically a sheep of Ashblade, which is funny because ASHBLADE IS NOT VOTING FOR MONK. YOU ARE VOTING THE WRONG PERSON TO SHEEP.

Dealt with.

• Oh, so the monk vote was just outside game influenced rage? I"m not buying that,
  Whiskers
  was voting for Ashblade, who is gaining steam as a wagon right now.

Vote: goddamnit

VOTE: monk

imma sheep ashblade here. Eh defends and attacks and doesn't afraid of anything.

More like, I'll sheep ashblade because monk is still pissing me off in [REDACTED]

^How about that? Also, I was voting for Ashblade... when? Maybe I just don't remember it, but it feels like you're making stuff up. Strike 2-- unless you can point me where you mean, when you say I was voting ashblade.

• Whiskers you did an ISO and stopped..? THE GAME IS NOT EVEN 6 PAGES LONG. There are only 6 posts in that ISO. And you stopped? This is practically a noncommittal read. Regardless, reads Ashblade town purely for having content.

Okay, well, I read four of them. #4 and #5 are walls. I read Ashblade as town for having content... doesn't that make sense? it makes sense to me. Posts without content are scummy; see chkflip. Therefore, on the flip side, posts full of content (not filler) are townny.

• Make no mistake, this is backtracking on the Ashblade town read.

No, it's not. It is, however, saying that, if I am sick of lurkers, and a player is not lurking, but posting content, I might be more inclined to favor them. I didn't back off, I didn't stop and say, "Oh, yeah, well, I guess he's not a townread then," I just acknowledged that it might not be the best towntell, and I moved on. Ashblade remained a town read, and he remained a townread for that reason.

• Doesn't defend against accusations of faking content, instead points out that Ashblade isn't faking content, which was never implied from the preceding post.

I dunno what happened here. Looking at my argument for the "content is a towntell" thing, though, maybe I was pointing out that they were using lack of content as a scumtell and this was the reverse of that. I really don't remember and hindsight is 20/20, but that's the best reason I can come up with now.

• Whiskers says she only has 1 read, and it is a town read on Ash, AND that read is based off of having content, nothing more. Not what the content is, that is irrelevant!

There's another issue in this post, but I'll deal with the one you addressed: I had a townread on Ashblade for his posting of content (already discussed, I believe it's a valid towntell), I list whispersilk as nullscum here, I still don't like her from the Friend/WS fight, and then monk I had dealt with-- I just didn't have any strong reads one way or another. You all think ashblade was a stretch-- I could have grasped for straws to look like I had some great reads, but I didn't grasp at straws, and I didn't have great reads. Why lie?

• Asking for explanations of town reads on oneself which is generically bad play. Honestly I'm confused. There is so much wrong with this ISO that people haven't pointed out, I feel like I'm missing something.

How is that bad play? Are you making up theory just to condemn me? I'm not allowed to question it? Gee, mafia should buddy town players all the time, they're not allowed to question it! Am I getting this right?
I asked Zden (as an afterthought, perhaps), as monk had asked him a post or so earlier -- a request which Zden had ignored.
But there was Mute, who said this:

Whiskers and Empking are my stronger town-reads, and I've my eye on Friend. Everyone else is in the middle.

I at least gave reasoning for my town reads. I didn't have many reads, but I had explained mine.

• Can someone spell opportunistic scum?

Can somepony spell refusing to answer questions?

• You can't remember the post that made you 100% have a strong scum read on Zdenek as opposed to your massive null reads not too long ago? Are you actually scumhunting?

Let's start here: When was I 100% sure of something? I don't even know what you're referencing here-- you're making this up? Putting words into my mouth? I didn't say anything here about not remembering a post...? or about having a 100% strong scum read on Zden.
I

was

saying that Friend looked scummy for resisting the Zden wagon and hunting lurkers instead. There you go, me acquiring reads.

• Says zdek is being uncooperative while in a conversation with him in which he is trying his best to cooperate with you.

Fuck, whatever, sure, MAYBE with ME. But I'm calling him out on going, "fuck this, you're a jerk and I'm not answering your questions" to Mute. UNCOOPERATIVE. Right?

• Let the record show that
  Whiskers
  finds bad play scummy, and also somehow finds asking if there is a miller scummy. Overall, enough reason to vote; but it begs the question, why wasn't he a scum read at all earlier on? All of these posts are after the post where
  Whiskers
  has no scum reads. And she just pulls them out of her pocket with no indication of them when she voted.

First: I find bad play scummy, I find asking about a miller scummy-- so? what does a miller have to do with anything? Does that make me scummy, or are you just pointing it out for fun? He wasn't a scum read earlier on because I wasn't focusing and hadn't done an iso or a case or anything yet. You keep pointing out how vague and readless I am -- and I am. I am until I go and do the ISOs to please monk.

Second: Because I pulled them out of an ISO, not my pocket. I went and found more reasons to be voting her-- I guess that's what you're saying is scummy? I voted her for the matters at hoof, then I built a case.
Actually, looking back, I'd put it like this: "Opportunistic case-building." Looks like I took the biggest wagon and expanded the case on it.
I felt Mute was in the right, I didn't have a vote out (I think?), and I voted against the other guy. Similar, in a sense, to my vote on whispersilk, except that this player already had a large wagon on him.

• Lol? Unvotes again but this time because Zdek sounds like she does when she is town who is being pressured? That's bad play, you can't use meta of two different people interchangeably. What makes this particularly bad is that you made a case against him, and he is your only recorded scum read, and you're going back on it because of this. Backtrack more off of town.

Why can't I use two metas interchangably? You can apparently use scumtells for all players, you can use towntells for all players-- let's put it like this: Acting the way in which Zden was acting, I felt like it was a town tell (like I act when cornered town). Universal across the board, right? Good thing I'll call it a tell now, instead of meta.
Yeah, I did make a case. I also get cases made against me as town. What am I supposed to say here?

• Nothing to vote over? You have NO suspicions, and you feel that that was a scum move, then vote! You are just spreading seeds of suspicion everywhere without backing any of it up or committing.

Again, this is me being transparent. I'm telling monk how I read it. I'm saying, "This looked like this to me."

** Remember the part where I said it's okay to change the tone of a post to prove a point? (actually, to support a point.) This is it.

• Holy backtrack/waffle/buddy batman!

IThis post exists because I had to keep explaining it and

keep

explaining it, that it looked scummy to me. I wasn't planning on pursuing it, since I knew what he meant. As before, why lie? I thought it looked scummy, could be considered scummy, but wasn't treating it as a big deal because I didn't think it was.

**Explaining that I was, indeed changing it.

• Asks what about her is townie... again.

Yeah? At my old site, I'd always get townreads from players when I was scum. It makes me

super nervous

to be thought of and considered as town, because I feel like it's a scumtell-- like somepony's gonna turn around and say, "AHA, WHISKERS IS ONLY TOWN WHEN SHE'S SCUM!"
Yes, really.

• Says kill apathetic lurkers.. but what ever happened to not thinking that you should kill someone with just 5 posts;a lurker?

[Kill assholes who are also lurkers] verses [distract from my scumbuddy by hunting a lurker]. It's this distinction. If you don't understand, ask further.

• Misreps pseudo from something which basically said "gut read"; changed it to "because you find me scummy"

Sure, "misreps." He said one thing, I believed another thing. I believe he did

not

have a gut scumread against me (why is a gut read worth voting there?), and I believe that it was a OMGUS vote-- sure, call it a "gut read," you don't have any other case.

• Another misrep... The conversation went like this: >is there any reason to think mute is town? >is there any reason to think that mute is scum? >if you can't see by now why there is, then you can't read.

Uh, not, it didn't. Firstly, read what really happened, everypony, before you judge this one.
Secondly, I picked a particular phrasing. Rather than attacking Zdenek for Ad Hom and not explaining what questions of his weren't answered. I attacked him for phrasing it like that.
This is what you wanted me to point out:
>Is there any reason to think mute is town?
>yes.
>YOU'RE A DUMBASS AND I HATE YOU
This is what I did:
>Is there any reason to think mute is town?
>yes.
>Well, it's too early to tell.

Either that, or you think I'm misrepping monk, which, if I was, somehow, I was doing it in a favorable way.

• Several issues here: The fact that if Hiraki is scum that he'll keep dropping scum tells is irrelevant because that is true for EVERY scum, and is not a reason to not vote him at all. Secondly, you out Hiraki as likely PR, which is a bad thing to do from a town perspective. It's anti-town no matter how you paint it. Oh and you vote Zdek again; whatever happened to that meta of him being like you as town? Thrown out the window now that the wagon is getting full and you can jump on the mislynch?

No, not necessarily. scum don't always drop scumtells, Hiraki has a kind of strong personality, and I guess he always drop scumtells to try to stay alive.
I pointed out that he may be a PR, and again, this is his playstyle. He acts like he's a PR trying to avoid getting NKed. If he didn't want to be thought of that way, he'd change his playstyle? (Since it IS his playstyle, it's not outting him any more than outting him as a likely PR in any other game he's played up to this point. I'm outting his playstyle and what it looks like.)
Didn't you discredit my meta of him being like me as town? Furthermore, scroll up on that page. Zden does some more scummy stuff and I re-vote him. The wagon is no more full than before. When I unvoted, the wagon went from 5 votes to 4 votes, when I revoted, the wagon went from 4 votes to 5 votes. In that part at the very least, you're making up stuff to say I'm scummy. Call me a fencesitter, wishy-washy, but it's not like his wagon grew 10 feet since I unvoted.

Let's start here, if it's okay, we'll clear this part up and then I'll move onto Day 2?

[Junpei]

Yeah Whiskers, it is best to do it in parts; I'll get to it soon if I have time and respond to everything you wrote.

What is your experience playing mafia? I don't want exact numbers or anything, but how good to you think you are at the game of mafia? Scale of 1-10, adjectives, however you want to explain.

[Whiskers]

I change a lot.
I'm described as a VI a lot.
I'm usually lynched early on (Day 1 or so) when I'm town, and usually not at all when I'm scum.
I play to have fun, and I like to win.
I prefer to draw mafia, as opposed to town, but

really

want to play a serial killer or a vig.
I've never replaced out of a game, and only had one prod, when I didn't realize that I'd been posting in the thread

about

the game, but not the game-thread.
I don't like answering questions about my timezone.
I often come across as a bit of a jerk, but I find that those players are a real big hit here at MS.net.
I'm still learning, and I still experiment.

[Killjoy]

Whiskers, since you are self proclaimed mislynch, why aren't you dead already? NS try to make that Junpei vote look anymore contrived?

Not fond of reading a pink wall, but I guess I will. :/

[Killjoy]

Three scum in minis is the norm, especially for normals.

Junpei, Whiskers was on my scumlist for quite a while, but I gave up pushing that because no one else saw it. Plus whiskers has looked more town since then.

[Junpei]

• Why did you vote Whisper then Pseudo in the same post?

I don't fucking remember. It was my first post of the game. I voted whispersilk because of some reasoning about something, and then votes pseudo, probably for RVS, probably bec ause he hadn't checked in.

Don't remember. Okay, I don't know what else there is to say then.

• This post should be accompanied with a monk vote... but you vote whisper?

No, not really. I agreed "that I don't think monk is a good enough player to think that far ahead." I didn't say monk was a scum read. (Looking back, Friend's original post on this was because he didn't believe monk's "trap" was really a trap. I honestly don't currently remember my stance on that. Please, forgive me, it's been years and years.)

Then, Friend and whispersilk were bickering, and I said, "Friend's right," and Voted Whispersilk, something that Friend hadn't done.

If monk could not think far ahead enough to where he could realistically set a trap, then the trap was fake. If he faked the trap and made up some excuse to vote in a blatant lie, he is most certainly scummy. I think it is safe to say that your stance on this was that you agreed that monk faked the trap. Yet... no vote.

• Bad post. Implies that twisting is not a scum tell and then answers a question directed at empking, not her. One which was asked by Whisper, in case you're wondering.

No, implies that Friend was twisting from, "nervous and sarcastic" to "paraphrased and sarcastic," exactly like I said in that post. I also said that changing the tone of a post to fit one's claims is sometimes okay. I stand by that. I do it later (in your case against me, no less!) and here, I didn't feel Friend had changed the tone to one that was non-representative of monk's original posts. Friend condensed it, nothing worse.

**

Okay, lets quickly review what happened.
Friend said that monk said :"

LOL it was a trap Empking I've caught you as scum

"
To quote monk..:"

I set a trap, I didn't think you'd be the one to set it off, disappointing empking

"
In Friends' version there are two things we note that are different: Instead of a more calm, perhaps controlled tone (nervous wtf?) we get a more erratic and slang-versed tone. Also, "i've caught you as scum" is jumping to the conclusion that monk felt that empking was surely scum from that 'trap'. Do you still stand by your original decree that it was a modest change?

• Friend single handedly gets
  Whisker
  to unvote off of Whisper, but then
  Whisker
  proceeds to not vote anyone else, not even Ashblade, who her great friend Friend wants to kill.

In short, was a pressure vote. Should I have voted somepony else after? Ashblade wasn't a strong case, I didn't vote him. Luckily, TK presented a great spot for my vote in like, the very next post.

Well the idea is that you vote who is most scummy. Ashblade case not being strong early on is fine because it is simply that; early in the game. If you gave credence to it, I'd expect you to vote Ashblade. TK's next post is irrelevant.

• So whisper is town because she's new, but
  Whiskers
  is just a month older than Whispers, and claims to not be a noob. Her RVS theory link is bad because she isn't even doing it right and is completely missing the point. Then says she wants to lynch Monk, but how does that make any sense? First off, her vote is on ThKoopa. Second off, this post has NOTHING to do with monk at all.

First: I was justifying my removal of vote from whispersilk. It wasn't a particularly hard or serious vote. I wasn't incredibly trusting of Friend's reasoning ("she's flail-town"), so I was justifying it to myself. ((I know, I know, this was in response to ZDenek's post, but I didn't really know why she was town either.)) My reasoning? Friend's: She's flail-town, and Mine: she's newish, and I'm in RVS.

I also am more experienced (I think) Than Whispersilk, but not on this site.

I'm not doing WHAT about RVS righT? I'm missing WHAT point? IT was a link I had found just a few days before, (or maybe even that day), I posted it because it was great. ((btw, thank you for helping me find it again)) But how am I completely missing the point?

I say "I want to lynch monk." I was pursuing him on a line of questioning. I was scumhunting, even in RVS, which tied in to what I said before.
Other than that, idk why I was mentioning monk here.

Town don't need to overjustify something like an unvote. If you felt you were still in RVS, then you shouldn't need to do that. You just made up some excuse not to vote her. By the way, I am not going to go into detail here, but you are not following what TSQ necessarily wanted to happen with the actions you took. Post-Game I will though.

• Will wait to judge Hiraki until whisper flips which is a bit strange because
  Whiskers
  is voting ThKoopa. In fact
  Whiskers
  thinks that Whispers is town, so how long does Whiskers plan to wait?

So?
...what's your point here?

Well... if you are waiting to judge X until Y dies, and according to how you feel now, you don't want Y to die any time soon, you are basically submitting to never judge X for possibly till endgame. If you need to kill Whisper to read Hiraki, and you have no idea why Whisper is town, then vote whisper. Otherwise, try to read Hiraki as is. Going "well, until Y dies.. not much I can do" just looks like scum coming up with an excuse not to read a slot and make life easier on themselves.

• Votes for...monk, basically a sheep of Ashblade, which is funny because ASHBLADE IS NOT VOTING FOR MONK. YOU ARE VOTING THE WRONG PERSON TO SHEEP.

Dealt with.

Yep.

• Oh, so the monk vote was just outside game influenced rage? I"m not buying that,
  Whiskers
  was voting for Ashblade, who is gaining steam as a wagon right now.

Vote: goddamnit

VOTE: monk

imma sheep ashblade here. Eh defends and attacks and doesn't afraid of anything.

More like, I'll sheep ashblade because monk is still pissing me off in [REDACTED]

^How about that? Also, I was voting for Ashblade... when? Maybe I just don't remember it, but it feels like you're making stuff up. Strike 2-- unless you can point me where you mean, when you say I was voting ashblade.

I think I meant you were voting Monk. But I think what I wanted to say was that you were 1) waffling 2) Bwing with your monk vote.

• Whiskers you did an ISO and stopped..? THE GAME IS NOT EVEN 6 PAGES LONG. There are only 6 posts in that ISO. And you stopped? This is practically a noncommittal read. Regardless, reads Ashblade town purely for having content.

Okay, well, I read four of them. #4 and #5 are walls. I read Ashblade as town for having content... doesn't that make sense? it makes sense to me. Posts without content are scummy; see chkflip. Therefore, on the flip side, posts full of content (not filler) are townny.

If the inverse of all scumtells are town tells, then you get weird shit. For instance, it is a commonplace mafia tell that if one scumslips, they are scum. On the flipside however, if one does not scumslip, that is not a town tell; it is a null tell. Another example? Mafia are likely to be the ones who to mess up a PR plan. Does that mean that everyone who follows the PR plan is more likely to be town? No, not at all, it is a null tell, just like content.

• Make no mistake, this is backtracking on the Ashblade town read.

No, it's not. It is, however, saying that, if I am sick of lurkers, and a player is not lurking, but posting content, I might be more inclined to favor them. I didn't back off, I didn't stop and say, "Oh, yeah, well, I guess he's not a townread then," I just acknowledged that it might not be the best towntell, and I moved on. Ashblade remained a town read, and he remained a townread for that reason.

A less strong town read, you sounded confident when you declared that Ashblade was not scum and literally voted someone for the sake of voting with him. You backed down from that though; a backtrack doesn't have to be a 180, but a 50 degree shift is important still.

• Doesn't defend against accusations of faking content, instead points out that Ashblade isn't faking content, which was never implied from the preceding post.

I dunno what happened here. Looking at my argument for the "content is a towntell" thing, though, maybe I was pointing out that they were using lack of content as a scumtell and this was the reverse of that. I really don't remember and hindsight is 20/20, but that's the best reason I can come up with now.

That's called deflection, and that is what I thought you were doing.

• Whiskers says she only has 1 read, and it is a town read on Ash, AND that read is based off of having content, nothing more. Not what the content is, that is irrelevant!

There's another issue in this post, but I'll deal with the one you addressed: I had a townread on Ashblade for his posting of content (already discussed, I believe it's a valid towntell), I list whispersilk as nullscum here, I still don't like her from the Friend/WS fight, and then monk I had dealt with-- I just didn't have any strong reads one way or another. You all think ashblade was a stretch-- I could have grasped for straws to look like I had some great reads, but I didn't grasp at straws, and I didn't have great reads. Why lie?

What other issue? First off, I'm nipping this "scum wouldn't do this" gimmick in the bud. Town wouldn't do this because town would be scumhunting and getting real reads, especially true for someone who is active like you. Also, if you believe that this isn't a valid scumtell (it most certainly IS), then why did you FoS ThKoopa for having a bunch of null reads? He could have made up reads if he wanted to at the time of your posting. You definitely only expressed 1 read which you need to hold any commitment to in that post.

• Asking for explanations of town reads on oneself which is generically bad play. Honestly I'm confused. There is so much wrong with this ISO that people haven't pointed out, I feel like I'm missing something.

How is that bad play? Are you making up theory just to condemn me? I'm not allowed to question it? Gee, mafia should buddy town players all the time, they're not allowed to question it! Am I getting this right?
I asked Zden (as an afterthought, perhaps), as monk had asked him a post or so earlier -- a request which Zden had ignored.
But there was Mute, who said this:

Whiskers and Empking are my stronger town-reads, and I've my eye on Friend. Everyone else is in the middle.

I at least gave reasoning for my town reads. I didn't have many reads, but I had explained mine.

I'm fairly sure that the idea is that you don't explain townreads (unless they directly conflict with your scum reads) as it gives mafia information that doesn't help find out who is scum. If scum know what you find to be townie, then they can manipulate you and you might not even realize it. But,

lets ask and see how the other players in the game feel on this subject

, as I was not expecting you to challenge that, and this is an axiom I learned on this site.

• Can someone spell opportunistic scum?

Can somepony spell refusing to answer questions?

The worse part about that post is that later on, when he says he'll answer the questions, you go on to refuse him. You are condemning him and offering no chance of redemption.

• You can't remember the post that made you 100% have a strong scum read on Zdenek as opposed to your massive null reads not too long ago? Are you actually scumhunting?

Let's start here: When was I 100% sure of something? I don't even know what you're referencing here-- you're making this up? Putting words into my mouth? I didn't say anything here about not remembering a post...? or about having a 100% strong scum read on Zden.
I

was

saying that Friend looked scummy for resisting the Zden wagon and hunting lurkers instead. There you go, me acquiring reads.

That's not what I meant. I meant that that post was 100% the reason that you voted Zdenek. It was what caused your vote. You had him null before, then that post happened, then he was your top scum read. What % scum you felt he was is arbitrary, because you are likely to remember a very recent post that caused your vote. Especially considering zdenek immediately asked about 'which questions' you wanted answered in mutes' post.

• Says zdek is being uncooperative while in a conversation with him in which he is trying his best to cooperate with you.

Fuck, whatever, sure, MAYBE with ME. But I'm calling him out on going, "fuck this, you're a jerk and I'm not answering your questions" to Mute. UNCOOPERATIVE. Right?

So then you should have realized he had a personal despite not unlike the one you had with Monk. And even if he didn't, you stated that you found him to be most suspicious for not answering those questions. Zdenek saw that, and wondered what questions which he did not answer made you feel that way, so he could answer them. That is not at all unreasonable; you condemned him without trial, so to speak.

• Let the record show that
  Whiskers
  finds bad play scummy, and also somehow finds asking if there is a miller scummy. Overall, enough reason to vote; but it begs the question, why wasn't he a scum read at all earlier on? All of these posts are after the post where
  Whiskers
  has no scum reads. And she just pulls them out of her pocket with no indication of them when she voted.

First: I find bad play scummy, I find asking about a miller scummy-- so? what does a miller have to do with anything? Does that make me scummy, or are you just pointing it out for fun? He wasn't a scum read earlier on because I wasn't focusing and hadn't done an iso or a case or anything yet. You keep pointing out how vague and readless I am -- and I am. I am until I go and do the ISOs to please monk.

Second: Because I pulled them out of an ISO, not my pocket. I went and found more reasons to be voting her-- I guess that's what you're saying is scummy? I voted her for the matters at hoof, then I built a case.
Actually, looking back, I'd put it like this: "Opportunistic case-building." Looks like I took the biggest wagon and expanded the case on it.
I felt Mute was in the right, I didn't have a vote out (I think?), and I voted against the other guy. Similar, in a sense, to my vote on whispersilk, except that this player already had a large wagon on him.

Fair enough, you didn't notice. I must ask what you find scummy about asking if there is a miller in the setup; I will also ask if you honestly believe that it is okay not to have reads until someone asks you to ISO everyone.

• Lol? Unvotes again but this time because Zdek sounds like she does when she is town who is being pressured? That's bad play, you can't use meta of two different people interchangeably. What makes this particularly bad is that you made a case against him, and he is your only recorded scum read, and you're going back on it because of this. Backtrack more off of town.

Why can't I use two metas interchangably? You can apparently use scumtells for all players, you can use towntells for all players-- let's put it like this: Acting the way in which Zden was acting, I felt like it was a town tell (like I act when cornered town). Universal across the board, right? Good thing I'll call it a tell now, instead of meta.
Yeah, I did make a case. I also get cases made against me as town. What am I supposed to say here?

Okay, then tell me why town are considerably more likely to act as he did (explain how he acted as well) as opposed to scum? As for not using two peoples' meta interchangebly, it is because mafia/town tells are things done that the broad spectrum of mafia roles and town roles are more susceptible to do. Meta tells are different; they are things that a certain player is likely to do as a certain alignment. You can't take, for instance, Fates play in game X as evidence that I am scum in game Y.

• Nothing to vote over? You have NO suspicions, and you feel that that was a scum move, then vote! You are just spreading seeds of suspicion everywhere without backing any of it up or committing.

Again, this is me being transparent. I'm telling monk how I read it. I'm saying, "This looked like this to me."

** Remember the part where I said it's okay to change the tone of a post to prove a point? (actually, to support a point.) This is it.

You posted a thought bubble of monks' which implied he was scum trying to take heat off of his buddy and prod him so that he can slip back in. If that's how you read it, then VOTE.

• Holy backtrack/waffle/buddy batman!

IThis post exists because I had to keep explaining it and

keep

explaining it, that it looked scummy to me. I wasn't planning on pursuing it, since I knew what he meant. As before, why lie? I thought it looked scummy, could be considered scummy, but wasn't treating it as a big deal because I didn't think it was.

**Explaining that I was, indeed changing it.

Your response to my accusations is basically that yes you were backtracking/waffling/buddying. You committed a scum tell because like everyone else, you are not the god of mafia.

• Asks what about her is townie... again.

Yeah? At my old site, I'd always get townreads from players when I was scum. It makes me

super nervous

to be thought of and considered as town, because I feel like it's a scumtell-- like somepony's gonna turn around and say, "AHA, WHISKERS IS ONLY TOWN WHEN SHE'S SCUM!"
Yes, really.

But no one here knows that... so it makes no sense to assume that this group of people would know of your town = scum meta from another site.

• Says kill apathetic lurkers.. but what ever happened to not thinking that you should kill someone with just 5 posts;a lurker?

[Kill assholes who are also lurkers] verses [distract from my scumbuddy by hunting a lurker]. It's this distinction. If you don't understand, ask further.

I don't understand. You're saying that it is okay to kill a lurker if you have an emotional/personal grudge on their personality, but not okay if someone else is being suspected?

• Misreps pseudo from something which basically said "gut read"; changed it to "because you find me scummy"

Sure, "misreps." He said one thing, I believed another thing. I believe he did

not

have a gut scumread against me (why is a gut read worth voting there?), and I believe that it was a OMGUS vote-- sure, call it a "gut read," you don't have any other case.

For someone who has almost no reads at all, you are in no place to insult a gut read, as it is more than you have, and he, unlike you, realizes the importance of voting for who you think is most likely to be scum. But whatever, if you felt he was lying about his gut read, then I suppose there isn't much else I can say here.

• Another misrep... The conversation went like this: >is there any reason to think mute is town? >is there any reason to think that mute is scum? >if you can't see by now why there is, then you can't read.

Uh, not, it didn't. Firstly, read what really happened, everypony, before you judge this one.
Secondly, I picked a particular phrasing. Rather than attacking Zdenek for Ad Hom and not explaining what questions of his weren't answered. I attacked him for phrasing it like that.
This is what you wanted me to point out:
>Is there any reason to think mute is town?
>yes.
>YOU'RE A DUMBASS AND I HATE YOU
This is what I did:
>Is there any reason to think mute is town?
>yes.
>Well, it's too early to tell.

Either that, or you think I'm misrepping monk, which, if I was, somehow, I was doing it in a favorable way.

Uh what? I'm not sure what you're saying here. How do you get "YOU'RE A DUMBASS AND I HATE YOU" which is full of emotion and ad hominem from "I'm pretty sure that you can't read at this point, and since you're probably town, that's huge shame." In fact, how did you get "Well, it's too early to tell" from that? My mind is blown; Do you realize that he was saying that monk can't read if he can't see why Mute is scum? Probably because Zdenek had been posting dirt on Mute throughout the last few pages.

• Several issues here: The fact that if Hiraki is scum that he'll keep dropping scum tells is irrelevant because that is true for EVERY scum, and is not a reason to not vote him at all. Secondly, you out Hiraki as likely PR, which is a bad thing to do from a town perspective. It's anti-town no matter how you paint it. Oh and you vote Zdek again; whatever happened to that meta of him being like you as town? Thrown out the window now that the wagon is getting full and you can jump on the mislynch?

No, not necessarily. scum don't always drop scumtells, Hiraki has a kind of strong personality, and I guess he always drop scumtells to try to stay alive.
I pointed out that he may be a PR, and again, this is his playstyle. He acts like he's a PR trying to avoid getting NKed. If he didn't want to be thought of that way, he'd change his playstyle? (Since it IS his playstyle, it's not outting him any more than outting him as a likely PR in any other game he's played up to this point. I'm outting his playstyle and what it looks like.)
Didn't you discredit my meta of him being like me as town? Furthermore, scroll up on that page. Zden does some more scummy stuff and I re-vote him. The wagon is no more full than before. When I unvoted, the wagon went from 5 votes to 4 votes, when I revoted, the wagon went from 4 votes to 5 votes. In that part at the very least, you're making up stuff to say I'm scummy. Call me a fencesitter, wishy-washy, but it's not like his wagon grew 10 feet since I unvoted.

Okay, first of all, do you even know what it was the Zdenek was because accused of on that page? It was that he was saying people were scummy, but not voting them. The exact same thing that you've been doing all out this game. Only difference is that Zdenek had his vote in a credible spot the whole time he was doing that; he was actively scumhunting. Second of all, it doesn't matter if I think your meta is silly, because you did not think that, and it is your actions we are examining here. Thirdly, why would he drop scumtells to stay alive when dropping scumtells would further his death (hiraki)? How do you know it is his playstyle to act like a PR? How do you know that he wasn't actually a PR? Do you think that he assumes that town would not do something anti-town like try to out a PR?

My response is in the green.

[Junpei]

Also, as I have had people respond to me before (town and mafia) saying that they feel it is fruitless to argue with me in this manner, I do hope you do. I take in everything you say and form opinions based on it, don't believe that there is no changing my mind.

I feel that this is an important knot to work out.

[Nobody Special]

Take this as you will, but I've always been on record that replying within a quote is very annoying and hard to read. There is NO WAY IN HELL I'm reading color-coded bullshit to try and follow along. You want to make points, do it outside of quote tags.

[Whiskers]

+1 point to me

• This post should be accompanied with a monk vote... but you vote whisper?

No, not really. I agreed "that I don't think monk is a good enough player to think that far ahead." I didn't say monk was a scum read. (Looking back, Friend's original post on this was because he didn't believe monk's "trap" was really a trap. I honestly don't currently remember my stance on that. Please, forgive me, it's been years and years.)

Then, Friend and whispersilk were bickering, and I said, "Friend's right," and Voted Whispersilk, something that Friend hadn't done.

If monk could not think far ahead enough to where he could realistically set a trap, then the trap was fake. If he faked the trap and made up some excuse to vote in a blatant lie, he is most certainly scummy. I think it is safe to say that your stance on this was that you agreed that monk faked the trap. Yet... no vote.

Okay. That's a good point, I don't know why I didn't vote for him. You're right, and I don't know what happened. +1 point to you.

• Bad post. Implies that twisting is not a scum tell and then answers a question directed at empking, not her. One which was asked by Whisper, in case you're wondering.

No, implies that Friend was twisting from, "nervous and sarcastic" to "paraphrased and sarcastic," exactly like I said in that post. I also said that changing the tone of a post to fit one's claims is sometimes okay. I stand by that. I do it later (in your case against me, no less!) and here, I didn't feel Friend had changed the tone to one that was non-representative of monk's original posts. Friend condensed it, nothing worse.

**

Okay, lets quickly review what happened.
Friend said that monk said :"

LOL it was a trap Empking I've caught you as scum

"
To quote monk..:"

I set a trap, I didn't think you'd be the one to set it off, disappointing empking

"
In Friends' version there are two things we note that are different: Instead of a more calm, perhaps controlled tone (nervous wtf?) we get a more erratic and slang-versed tone. Also, "i've caught you as scum" is jumping to the conclusion that monk felt that empking was surely scum from that 'trap'. Do you still stand by your original decree that it was a modest change?

Hm... Yeah.... yeah. Even when you bring it back up with quotes and stuff, I don't think he changed the tone or meaning. "I set a trap, I didn't think you'd be the one to set it off" is the same thing as "I've caught you as scum." Actually, in monk's version, there's also the unspoken "you're my partner and I wish you hadn't set off my trap," but Friend doesn't include that.
Friend's version is jumping to the conclusion that monk felt Empking was scum from that trap-- monk

was

voting Empking. Haven't you been telling me to vote for scumreads? Whom else should you vote for? If you vote for scum-reads, and monk was voting, then yes, it could easily be inferred, that monk thought Empking was scum.
I don't think Friend made a major change. I support my previous answer.

• Friend single handedly gets
  Whisker
  to unvote off of Whisper, but then
  Whisker
  proceeds to not vote anyone else, not even Ashblade, who her great friend Friend wants to kill.

In short, was a pressure vote. Should I have voted somepony else after? Ashblade wasn't a strong case, I didn't vote him. Luckily, TK presented a great spot for my vote in like, the very next post.

Well the idea is that you vote who is most scummy. Ashblade case not being strong early on is fine because it is simply that; early in the game. If you gave credence to it, I'd expect you to vote Ashblade. TK's next post is irrelevant.

But I didn't give credence to it and I didn't vote for him. So...?
Also, an point in your original argument here is that even after I unvoted Whipsersilk, I didn't

Re

vote anypony. I did in my next post (I voted TK), so that's incorrect.

• So whisper is town because she's new, but
  Whiskers
  is just a month older than Whispers, and claims to not be a noob. Her RVS theory link is bad because she isn't even doing it right and is completely missing the point. Then says she wants to lynch Monk, but how does that make any sense? First off, her vote is on ThKoopa. Second off, this post has NOTHING to do with monk at all.

First: I was justifying my removal of vote from whispersilk. It wasn't a particularly hard or serious vote. I wasn't incredibly trusting of Friend's reasoning ("she's flail-town"), so I was justifying it to myself. ((I know, I know, this was in response to ZDenek's post, but I didn't really know why she was town either.)) My reasoning? Friend's: She's flail-town, and Mine: she's newish, and I'm in RVS.

I also am more experienced (I think) Than Whispersilk, but not on this site.

I'm not doing WHAT about RVS righT? I'm missing WHAT point? IT was a link I had found just a few days before, (or maybe even that day), I posted it because it was great. ((btw, thank you for helping me find it again)) But how am I completely missing the point?

I say "I want to lynch monk." I was pursuing him on a line of questioning. I was scumhunting, even in RVS, which tied in to what I said before.
Other than that, idk why I was mentioning monk here.

Town don't need to overjustify something like an unvote. If you felt you were still in RVS, then you shouldn't need to do that. You just made up some excuse not to vote her. By the way, I am not going to go into detail here, but you are not following what TSQ necessarily wanted to happen with the actions you took. Post-Game I will though.

I said here that I was justifying it to myself. My vote for whispersilk wasn't for strong reasons in the first place, my unvote wasn't strong, but then somepony came along and actually asked

why

she was town. I tried to kind of explain it-- it also was reason why I was unvoting so easily.

• Will wait to judge Hiraki until whisper flips which is a bit strange because
  Whiskers
  is voting ThKoopa. In fact
  Whiskers
  thinks that Whispers is town, so how long does Whiskers plan to wait?

So?
...what's your point here?

Well... if you are waiting to judge X until Y dies, and according to how you feel now, you don't want Y to die any time soon, you are basically submitting to never judge X for possibly till endgame. If you need to kill Whisper to read Hiraki, and you have no idea why Whisper is town, then vote whisper. Otherwise, try to read Hiraki as is. Going "well, until Y dies.. not much I can do" just looks like scum coming up with an excuse not to read a slot and make life easier on themselves.

One of Hiraki, whispersilk, or me would eventually die, therefore solving the whole problem. I was in no rush, and I was basing a part of my read on him, on her.
It was the

only

part of my read, at the time. I don't recall off the top of my head, but I believe I did get a read on him later, and whispersilk has never flipped.

• Oh, so the monk vote was just outside game influenced rage? I"m not buying that,
  Whiskers
  was voting for Ashblade, who is gaining steam as a wagon right now.

Vote: goddamnit

VOTE: monk

imma sheep ashblade here. Eh defends and attacks and doesn't afraid of anything.

More like, I'll sheep ashblade because monk is still pissing me off in [REDACTED]

^How about that? Also, I was voting for Ashblade... when? Maybe I just don't remember it, but it feels like you're making stuff up. Strike 2-- unless you can point me where you mean, when you say I was voting ashblade.

I think I meant you were voting Monk. But I think what I wanted to say was that you were 1) waffling 2) Bwing with your monk vote.

I may have been bandwagonning. Is that bad?
Look: I was the third vote on monk. There was Empking's vote, Ashblade's vote, and then I sheeped Ashblade.
I than, shortly after, unvoted. I was the player who made that a wagon-- three votes-- and then I unvoted it.
I

definitely

did number one-- I waffled with most of these players. I didn't have strong reads one way or another.

But I don't think you can call me out for bandwagoning -- and for waffling.

I waffled to come

off

of the bandwagon, so your #1 negates your #2.

• Whiskers you did an ISO and stopped..? THE GAME IS NOT EVEN 6 PAGES LONG. There are only 6 posts in that ISO. And you stopped? This is practically a noncommittal read. Regardless, reads Ashblade town purely for having content.

Okay, well, I read four of them. #4 and #5 are walls. I read Ashblade as town for having content... doesn't that make sense? it makes sense to me. Posts without content are scummy; see chkflip. Therefore, on the flip side, posts full of content (not filler) are townny.

If the inverse of all scumtells are town tells, then you get weird shit. For instance, it is a commonplace mafia tell that if one scumslips, they are scum. On the flipside however, if one does not scumslip, that is not a town tell; it is a null tell. Another example? Mafia are likely to be the ones who to mess up a PR plan. Does that mean that everyone who follows the PR plan is more likely to be town? No, not at all, it is a null tell, just like content.

Okay, but let's take it by a case by case basis-- actually, no, I have a better argument:
"not committing a scumtell" is not the same as "doing the opposite of a scumtell."
>It is commonplace that if one scumslips, they are scum. But if one

townslips

? Alright, you may say, but what is really a "townslip"? Can I change it to tells? If one "scumtells" they are scum? If one "towntells," they are town? Since I have to change the argument to make this one work, I'll move on to the next one.
>Mafia are likely to mess up a PR plan.
>Townies are more likely to aid a PR plan. -- you actually say this is not true, but I disagree.
^^Sorry, all of this is very SoC. Ugh. ask me to explain if you don't understand: [not doing something] is different from [doing the opposite of something].

The simplest way I can explain my townread on Ashblade is: He provided higher amounts of content:noncontent than other players. Though you may say content =/= protown, You have to agree that (in most cases) noncontent = antitown. Right? Ashblade was towny in comparison.

Why does "the nature of the content" matter? It's game-content. What could be bad about it?

• Make no mistake, this is backtracking on the Ashblade town read.

No, it's not. It is, however, saying that, if I am sick of lurkers, and a player is not lurking, but posting content, I might be more inclined to favor them. I didn't back off, I didn't stop and say, "Oh, yeah, well, I guess he's not a townread then," I just acknowledged that it might not be the best towntell, and I moved on. Ashblade remained a town read, and he remained a townread for that reason.

A less strong town read, you sounded confident when you declared that Ashblade was not scum and literally voted someone for the sake of voting with him. You backed down from that though; a backtrack doesn't have to be a 180, but a 50 degree shift is important still.

Just because I didn't fight him and say it was the best read ever and that he was stupid, I'm backtracking? (that was a misrep.) What should I have done? I acknowledged monk's point and kept my townread regardless and moved on.

• Doesn't defend against accusations of faking content, instead points out that Ashblade isn't faking content, which was never implied from the preceding post.

I dunno what happened here. Looking at my argument for the "content is a towntell" thing, though, maybe I was pointing out that they were using lack of content as a scumtell and this was the reverse of that. I really don't remember and hindsight is 20/20, but that's the best reason I can come up with now.

That's called deflection, and that is what I thought you were doing.

That may have been. But they were calling me scummy, accusing me of the opposite of what I was giving Ashblade towncred for. If they didn't think my tell on Ashblade was serious, I wasn't taking their tell on me seriously.

• Whiskers says she only has 1 read, and it is a town read on Ash, AND that read is based off of having content, nothing more. Not what the content is, that is irrelevant!

There's another issue in this post, but I'll deal with the one you addressed: I had a townread on Ashblade for his posting of content (already discussed, I believe it's a valid towntell), I list whispersilk as nullscum here, I still don't like her from the Friend/WS fight, and then monk I had dealt with-- I just didn't have any strong reads one way or another. You all think ashblade was a stretch-- I could have grasped for straws to look like I had some great reads, but I didn't grasp at straws, and I didn't have great reads. Why lie?

What other issue? First off, I'm nipping this "scum wouldn't do this" gimmick in the bud. Town wouldn't do this because town would be scumhunting and getting real reads, especially true for someone who is active like you. Also, if you believe that this isn't a valid scumtell (it most certainly IS), then why did you FoS ThKoopa for having a bunch of null reads? He could have made up reads if he wanted to at the time of your posting. You definitely only expressed 1 read which you need to hold any commitment to in that post.

So? I FoS'd Koopa for having a bunch of nullreads in a post which was ten feet long. Here I (pretty clearly, I think) said, "I only have this one read, none of my other reads are very good either."

I'm going to tell you what I think, and it may not be true, but

iirc

I was fairly busy and my other games didn't need me to really think hard, unless this was at the same time as the last few Days in Mini 1234, in which it took a LOT of my time and I spent the time there, not here.

I simply didn't put much effort into this game at that point. I was lazy. I waffled on most of the players, and didn't hunt hard or collect any great reads, or pursue scum.

• Asking for explanations of town reads on oneself which is generically bad play. Honestly I'm confused. There is so much wrong with this ISO that people haven't pointed out, I feel like I'm missing something.

How is that bad play? Are you making up theory just to condemn me? I'm not allowed to question it? Gee, mafia should buddy town players all the time, they're not allowed to question it! Am I getting this right?
I asked Zden (as an afterthought, perhaps), as monk had asked him a post or so earlier -- a request which Zden had ignored.
But there was Mute, who said this:

Whiskers and Empking are my stronger town-reads, and I've my eye on Friend. Everyone else is in the middle.

I at least gave reasoning for my town reads. I didn't have many reads, but I had explained mine.

I'm fairly sure that the idea is that you don't explain townreads (unless they directly conflict with your scum reads) as it gives mafia information that doesn't help find out who is scum. If scum know what you find to be townie, then they can manipulate you and you might not even realize it. But,

lets ask and see how the other players in the game feel on this subject

, as I was not expecting you to challenge that, and this is an axiom I learned on this site.

It does find who is scum. I find it's nice to explain everything because otherwise there is the opportunity to be buddying badscum who declares a townread on a known town player, so when the flip rolls around, they say, "see, see, I told ya!" This is possible even with a reason, but with a reason, it's not

for no reason,

which means fake (which means scum).
If you weren't expecting me to challenge this, why did you bring it up?

• Can someone spell opportunistic scum?

Can somepony spell refusing to answer questions?

The worse part about that post is that later on, when he says he'll answer the questions, you go on to refuse him. You are condemning him and offering no chance of redemption.

No. The scumtell was not answering questions. I didn't really care one way or another what the answers were, but I'd assume Mute did, since he asked them. The tell was, "imma be a jerk and not answer questions," and "im so sorry ill answer anything now just dont kill me plzzzzz!" didn't fix it.

• You can't remember the post that made you 100% have a strong scum read on Zdenek as opposed to your massive null reads not too long ago? Are you actually scumhunting?

Let's start here: When was I 100% sure of something? I don't even know what you're referencing here-- you're making this up? Putting words into my mouth? I didn't say anything here about not remembering a post...? or about having a 100% strong scum read on Zden.
I

was

saying that Friend looked scummy for resisting the Zden wagon and hunting lurkers instead. There you go, me acquiring reads.

That's not what I meant. I meant that that post was 100% the reason that you voted Zdenek. It was what caused your vote. You had him null before, then that post happened, then he was your top scum read. What % scum you felt he was is arbitrary, because you are likely to remember a very recent post that caused your vote. Especially considering zdenek immediately asked about 'which questions' you wanted answered in mutes' post.

Like I said, it wasn't about the answers, but about the presence of the answers.
If what % scum I felt he was is arbitrary,

why did you bring it up here?

I bandwagoned onto Zden (not looking back, just assuming the worst), then looked through his iso and made a case. That is the scummiest way you can construe it. scumtell? idts...

• Says zdek is being uncooperative while in a conversation with him in which he is trying his best to cooperate with you.

Fuck, whatever, sure, MAYBE with ME. But I'm calling him out on going, "fuck this, you're a jerk and I'm not answering your questions" to Mute. UNCOOPERATIVE. Right?

So then you should have realized he had a personal despite not unlike the one you had with Monk. And even if he didn't, you stated that you found him to be most suspicious for not answering those questions. Zdenek saw that, and wondered what questions which he did not answer made you feel that way, so he could answer them. That is not at all unreasonable; you condemned him without trial, so to speak.

I said I had "a personal despite" with monk. And that was Out-of-game.
He said "You're bad and I won't answer your post."
He was suspicious for, and maybe I need to clarify: He was suspicious for refusing to answer questions, not for not answering questions. By the time I called him out for it, the damage had been done, he had already said, "I'm not answering your questions."
Understand yet?

• Let the record show that
  Whiskers
  finds bad play scummy, and also somehow finds asking if there is a miller scummy. Overall, enough reason to vote; but it begs the question, why wasn't he a scum read at all earlier on? All of these posts are after the post where
  Whiskers
  has no scum reads. And she just pulls them out of her pocket with no indication of them when she voted.

First: I find bad play scummy, I find asking about a miller scummy-- so? what does a miller have to do with anything? Does that make me scummy, or are you just pointing it out for fun? He wasn't a scum read earlier on because I wasn't focusing and hadn't done an iso or a case or anything yet. You keep pointing out how vague and readless I am -- and I am. I am until I go and do the ISOs to please monk.

Second: Because I pulled them out of an ISO, not my pocket. I went and found more reasons to be voting her-- I guess that's what you're saying is scummy? I voted her for the matters at hoof, then I built a case.
Actually, looking back, I'd put it like this: "Opportunistic case-building." Looks like I took the biggest wagon and expanded the case on it.
I felt Mute was in the right, I didn't have a vote out (I think?), and I voted against the other guy. Similar, in a sense, to my vote on whispersilk, except that this player already had a large wagon on him.

Fair enough, you didn't notice. I must ask what you find scummy about asking if there is a miller in the setup; I will also ask if you honestly believe that it is okay not to have reads until someone asks you to ISO everyone.

The miller thing-- did I make a big deal about this? I don't remember it. Anyway, there was a thing in another game. It could be considered trying to out a cop or something, I don't know. There was another game where there was a miller and it was weird that somepony would ask for miller claims here. Trying to get your friends to claim miller? maybe the cop, trying to eliminate targets? maybe somepony looking for an easy lynch or something. idk. There was no reason for him to believe there was a cop, it would be like if I said, "Hmmm, Junpei, do you think there is a Serial Killer in this setup? There's no reason for us to think so, but do you think so?"

And no, it wasn't really acceptable for me to not have reads like I did. I have excuses for you, but the truth is, I should have put more effort into the game without having to be asked.

• Lol? Unvotes again but this time because Zdek sounds like she does when she is town who is being pressured? That's bad play, you can't use meta of two different people interchangeably. What makes this particularly bad is that you made a case against him, and he is your only recorded scum read, and you're going back on it because of this. Backtrack more off of town.

Why can't I use two metas interchangably? You can apparently use scumtells for all players, you can use towntells for all players-- let's put it like this: Acting the way in which Zden was acting, I felt like it was a town tell (like I act when cornered town). Universal across the board, right? Good thing I'll call it a tell now, instead of meta.
Yeah, I did make a case. I also get cases made against me as town. What am I supposed to say here?

Okay, then tell me why town are considerably more likely to act as he did (explain how he acted as well) as opposed to scum? As for not using two peoples' meta interchangebly, it is because mafia/town tells are things done that the broad spectrum of mafia roles and town roles are more susceptible to do. Meta tells are different; they are things that a certain player is likely to do as a certain alignment. You can't take, for instance, Fates play in game X as evidence that I am scum in game Y.

Firstly, you are incorrect because I can say that he was being a VI in a position similar to my VI play. It looked like me.
Now, aren't tells just a generalized meta? "Mafia don't like to No-Kill" gives us the idea that doctor-protects are cleared. "Not knowing the setup is town" is something that a town-aligned player did once, and then another one did, and the shared archmeta says that usually, a town-aligned player is less likely to pay attention to the setup.

In this case, it was, "VIs are more likely to act wild and try to be everywhere." His post previous to my unvote showed him trying to defend and reconcile really concisely and quickly. I remember my VI play as being-- whan I am caught town, I try to throw out last minute cases and all my real suspicions and help my faction in any way possible before I die.
That's one reason I hate players who get almost-lynched and say, "welp, fuck you." Either they are scum, or they are bad people and I hate them personally. That's why I hate players like Hiraki (not as much), Empking (not as much), chkflip (but apparently only this game), and the way Nopony Special acted at L-2 (but not L-1, for some reason). They actively try NOT to help their factions. It's like, "gee, I could help my faction, but I'm going to try hard NOT to."
Zdenek didn't do that. He was New, and he was flailing, and I thought he looked like noobtown for it. My read on him in any direction wasn't very strong, so I unvoted.

• Nothing to vote over? You have NO suspicions, and you feel that that was a scum move, then vote! You are just spreading seeds of suspicion everywhere without backing any of it up or committing.

Again, this is me being transparent. I'm telling monk how I read it. I'm saying, "This looked like this to me."

** Remember the part where I said it's okay to change the tone of a post to prove a point? (actually, to support a point.) This is it.

You posted a thought bubble of monks' which implied he was scum trying to take heat off of his buddy and prod him so that he can slip back in. If that's how you read it, then VOTE.

I implied that

it looked like

or that

I originally read it like

he was scum trying to take heat off of his buddy. I didn't think monk and Pseudo were partners. I don't know why.

• Holy backtrack/waffle/buddy batman!

IThis post exists because I had to keep explaining it and

keep

explaining it, that it looked scummy to me. I wasn't planning on pursuing it, since I knew what he meant. As before, why lie? I thought it looked scummy, could be considered scummy, but wasn't treating it as a big deal because I didn't think it was.

**Explaining that I was, indeed changing it.

Your response to my accusations is basically that yes you were backtracking/waffling/buddying. You committed a scum tell because like everyone else, you are not the god of mafia.

So...?

• Asks what about her is townie... again.

Yeah? At my old site, I'd always get townreads from players when I was scum. It makes me

super nervous

to be thought of and considered as town, because I feel like it's a scumtell-- like somepony's gonna turn around and say, "AHA, WHISKERS IS ONLY TOWN WHEN SHE'S SCUM!"
Yes, really.

But no one here knows that... so it makes no sense to assume that this group of people would know of your town = scum meta from another site.

doesnt' keep me from being paranoid. I guess the other thing is, that when I'm town, and I get called town, it means it could get me nightkilled. I'm just not comfortable with being called town.

• Says kill apathetic lurkers.. but what ever happened to not thinking that you should kill someone with just 5 posts;a lurker?

[Kill assholes who are also lurkers] verses [distract from my scumbuddy by hunting a lurker]. It's this distinction. If you don't understand, ask further.

I don't understand. You're saying that it is okay to kill a lurker if you have an emotional/personal grudge on their personality, but not okay if someone else is being suspected?

No, I mean it's okay to kill a lurker if they're being nasty and mean, if they have some reason to be suspected themselves, but--
Look. In this case, it was:
Monk: Pseudo isn't willing to play the game.
Friend: Gee, I don't think this guy is scummy, let my offer a lame alternative of some lurker for no reason other than he's lurking.

If Pseudo is town, he shouldn't be lurking. He should also be willing to play the game.
If... Zden is scum, what would keep Friend from trying to distract attention from him? Or even if Zden was town? This was Friend buddying Zden and trying to move a wagon off of him --

to a lurker

. Get it?

• Misreps pseudo from something which basically said "gut read"; changed it to "because you find me scummy"

Sure, "misreps." He said one thing, I believed another thing. I believe he did

not

have a gut scumread against me (why is a gut read worth voting there?), and I believe that it was a OMGUS vote-- sure, call it a "gut read," you don't have any other case.

For someone who has almost no reads at all, you are in no place to insult a gut read, as it is more than you have, and he, unlike you, realizes the importance of voting for who you think is most likely to be scum. But whatever, if you felt he was lying about his gut read, then I suppose there isn't much else I can say here.

I understand the importance of not voting randomly. I don't have any strong reads, or any reads at all, so I don't vote. I wasn't doing any fishing with my votes either.
I threw out some weak votes, and then drew them back in, because they were weak votes, and what's the point?

I think that his gut read, if he is town, was based on Omgus. I think that his Omgus, if he is scum, was called a "gut read" because he had nothing else.

• Another misrep... The conversation went like this: >is there any reason to think mute is town? >is there any reason to think that mute is scum? >if you can't see by now why there is, then you can't read.

Uh, not, it didn't. Firstly, read what really happened, everypony, before you judge this one.
Secondly, I picked a particular phrasing. Rather than attacking Zdenek for Ad Hom and not explaining what questions of his weren't answered. I attacked him for phrasing it like that.
This is what you wanted me to point out:
>Is there any reason to think mute is town?
>yes.
>YOU'RE A DUMBASS AND I HATE YOU
This is what I did:
>Is there any reason to think mute is town?
>yes.
>Well, it's too early to tell.

Either that, or you think I'm misrepping monk, which, if I was, somehow, I was doing it in a favorable way.

Uh what? I'm not sure what you're saying here. How do you get "YOU'RE A DUMBASS AND I HATE YOU" which is full of emotion and ad hominem from "I'm pretty sure that you can't read at this point, and since you're probably town, that's huge shame." In fact, how did you get "Well, it's too early to tell" from that? My mind is blown; Do you realize that he was saying that monk can't read if he can't see why Mute is scum? Probably because Zdenek had been posting dirt on Mute throughout the last few pages.

"You can't read"? Obviously, the players in this game are capable of reading. "You can't read" is the same as, "You're an idiot." So, it reads as, "You're an idiot (ad hom) and since you're probably town (buddying), that's a shame. (filler)" It's saying, "since oyu don't agree with me, you're stupid." It also calls him town, which is similar to saying, "You want to be my friend, don't you?"

"You're stupid, but you don't want to be stupid, right? So agree with me, then you will be smart!"


I get, "It's too early to tell" from, "at this point." Instead of going the route of, "You're so stupid you can't read,"
I went with the idea that, "You don't think he's scum? Well, you can't read at this point, so of course not."
Ask for more detail.

• Several issues here: The fact that if Hiraki is scum that he'll keep dropping scum tells is irrelevant because that is true for EVERY scum, and is not a reason to not vote him at all. Secondly, you out Hiraki as likely PR, which is a bad thing to do from a town perspective. It's anti-town no matter how you paint it. Oh and you vote Zdek again; whatever happened to that meta of him being like you as town? Thrown out the window now that the wagon is getting full and you can jump on the mislynch?

No, not necessarily. scum don't always drop scumtells, Hiraki has a kind of strong personality, and I guess he always drop scumtells to try to stay alive.
I pointed out that he may be a PR, and again, this is his playstyle. He acts like he's a PR trying to avoid getting NKed. If he didn't want to be thought of that way, he'd change his playstyle? (Since it IS his playstyle, it's not outting him any more than outting him as a likely PR in any other game he's played up to this point. I'm outting his playstyle and what it looks like.)
Didn't you discredit my meta of him being like me as town? Furthermore, scroll up on that page. Zden does some more scummy stuff and I re-vote him. The wagon is no more full than before. When I unvoted, the wagon went from 5 votes to 4 votes, when I revoted, the wagon went from 4 votes to 5 votes. In that part at the very least, you're making up stuff to say I'm scummy. Call me a fencesitter, wishy-washy, but it's not like his wagon grew 10 feet since I unvoted.

Okay, first of all, do you even know what it was the Zdenek was because accused of on that page? It was that he was saying people were scummy, but not voting them. The exact same thing that you've been doing all out this game. Only difference is that Zdenek had his vote in a credible spot the whole time he was doing that; he was actively scumhunting. Second of all, it doesn't matter if I think your meta is silly, because you did not think that, and it is your actions we are examining here. Thirdly, why would he drop scumtells to stay alive when dropping scumtells would further his death (hiraki)? How do you know it is his playstyle to act like a PR? How do you know that he wasn't actually a PR? Do you think that he assumes that town would not do something anti-town like try to out a PR?

Okay, first of all, Zdenek was being accused of voting for a player who he said was scummy for meta

instead

of who he thought was scummy for in-game stuff. I didn't have a meta case on somepony, so I wasn't voting for it while calling other players scum. In fact, I wasn't really calling other players scum a whole lot either.
My read on Zden was weak. little things here and there and I voted and unvoted. Yes. I flip-flopped. Cool one minute and lame the next.

Thridly, that's how Hiraki plays. HE plays in this way all the time. I have never seen him play another way. I don't remember if I had another game with him or something, I think I did. Look at his meta. He is often uncooperative and Snarky. He hasn't been evil this game (like chkflip and NS), but he still played normally.

Actually, scratch that, I'm absolutely sure I played with him in at least one other game. now:

dropping scumtells doesn't farther his death. He looks scummy and scum doesn't kill him, but stays on the edge so that when scum (or town, for that matter) tries to make a case against him, there really isn't anything there. He's a very careful player. He doesn't drop scumtells, but he always looks like he might be lynched the next day.
It's his playstyle because he plays like that. I don't know he's not actually a pr. He always plays like that. Maybe he assumes town wouldn't try to out a PR, Idk. Since he wasn't a PR, he probably didn't mind me calling him one, as it let him, a vt, draw the NK.

My response is in the green.

And mine orange.

Sorry, NS. I'll untangle this sometime later, maybe, or at least make it so that the colors are consistent (my plan: make some of them dark grey, the other person black, and all new responses in color).

[Junpei]

NS, stick around, I'm almost done with it, have to run to the store real fast though.

pedit: Fuuuuuu

[Nobody Special]

Jesus.

It's like cotton candy vomit.

[Killjoy]

Chances of me reading the skittles are slim to none given my current attitude. Maybe tomorrow.

[Whiskers]

Lol.

Junpei, if you're near done untangling it, I can fix my own post (in orange) so that it fits the new format. Okay?

[Junpei]

Ugh, this may not get done till tomorrow, I don't know if I'll be able to sit down and do this. Whiskers I'm like 70% done, and getting demoralized with mistakes. This is a shitty way to do things. For future games I will have to come up with a more efficient method.

Also I think it is best if you keep using pink... fuck this is a waste of time.

When you have time Whiskers, can you respond to this so that SOMETHING productive is happening? You missed it earlier.

[Whiskers]

>:|

Fine.

chkflip - null. HE was scum for a really long time and I don't want to stop calling him scum now. We'll see. Scum for apathy and being a jerkass. We totally had enough jerkass players here. I've been trying to get this guy lynched for the last three (?) game Days. The resistance to this makes me think maybe scum, but it's not the same kind of resistance as scum defending scum.

So he's very scummy, you've thought he's scum the whole game, and his resistance is not scum defending scum to you. And.. he's null.

That's ridiculous. Care to explain this particular read in more depth? I ask because I see little evidence of you coming to any real conclusions in this thread pertaining to scumhunting. These reads aren't encouraging at all either.

What changed: He started to play.
The resistance to his lynch didn't look like scum-protection to me, looked more like, "Oh well, I'd rather lynch this player over here." We were all ready to lynch chkflip a Day or so ago (or was it toDay?) and then something else, an even better lynch came up.
My scum on him was majorly dependent on his lack of game playing.
Other lynches have made themselves available, and perhaps even better lynches.

@Killjoy, when did you have suspicion against me?

[Killjoy]

[qote="In post 69, Friend"]Whispers: When you're online, you should be able to at least say something to me. If you weren't online and replying to other people I wouldn't be irritated.

Also, I didn't twist monk's statement at all. Do you feel like monk's "It was a trap" post was completely calm and collected?

Monk is a newbie. /end of discussion.

His actions are likely to have very weak reasoning and prolonging this discussion is only eating away at our time to lynch actual scum like Whiskers.

Pacific.

Aww, whispers, I'm not talking to you because you're really kind of an asshole and talking to you is going to get us nowhere but me saying "I'm right" and you saying "you're wrong."

Whispers is town and you should move your vote to someone who is contributing nothing original *cough* Whiskers *cough*.

Town reads so far are Silk and monk. Monk if only for his newb status. Whispersilk because she doesn't seem like scum with recent postings.

WHAT THE FUCK, HE'S ALIVE AND SHIT.

I just don't think monk is a good enough player to think that far ahead. I've played with him before.

Thank GOD, I always worry that I'm just retarded or something, when I have an opinion. I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that way.

Friend is right. Here, have a vote:
VOTE: whispersilk

A little more sheeping, much?

Heh...traps...heh.

THANKS FOR THE INSIGHT BROOOOOOO

You're quite welcome.

Some of this looks pretty silly. Monk changes his vote, which prompts Empking to change his vote to Monk, causing Monk to vote Empking for falling into his "trap," which Friend goes along with. Whisper then votes Friend for being opportunistic, and then Whiskers votes Whisper for voting trap-setters, and then me just cause.

You can't take much of that seriously. I can't really see Monk's or Empking's actions as scummy. Actually, I can't see them as anything more than silliness. Now, reading through this, Friend doesn't come off too well. Not necessarily the alleged word-twisting, but I don't get a good feeling from him.

Nice way to summarize what has happened and effectively add nothing other than passive potshots at various players that you will likely use as your "basis" for voting someone later.

Guys, even though whisper is being annoyingly misguided I think she's town.

Now, ashblade, though...he's probably not.

*snip*

So this wagon is a go.

UNVOTE: Monk
VOTE: Ashblade

I'm gonna wait for a while. Your case on Ash is that he's weak and stuff? Why? We've got nice strong flailing right here in whispersilk.

Nice fail reasoning for switching a vote when you realize it is scummy as fuck to be voting monk and silk.Sil is not flailing scum.

Will we get to revisit this case in LyLo?

Un--fuck

UNVOTE: whispersilk Hate those tags.

Ya. Vote switching. You're scum, Whiskers. Try not to plant fail votes in the first place and pay attention. You're not actively reading this thread. Thinking you can get away with coasting?

Ya. Right.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Whiskers

Vote ashblade

Pseudo is also scum.

You too? Do you want to contribute anything?

Is there a miller in the game?

Don't be fooled. he isn't a cop, he is scum trying to figure out whether or not there is a miller in this game because if there is, there is a cop. Zedenek and Whiskers scum team right here.

Why the hell is Whispersilk town by the way?

Disappointed that your mislynch is not going through? Ya. Sucks to be you.

I am more sure of Zedenek scum.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Zedenek

Vote: goddamnit

VOTE: monk

imma sheep ashblade here. Eh defends and attacks and doesn't afraid of anything.

You guys are so obvious it hurts. Damn.

Power roles > Whiskers.[/quote]

Ya. After looking at the last page less sure of Whiskers. He seems like a weak player. I attributed that to be weak scum, but his partial tunneling on Zed last page make it seem like he is a sheep and just needs to be put on the right path. If Whiskers is scum, then Zed is town. If Zed is scum, then Whiskers is town.

Gonna put Whiskers as null-lean scum.

Zed is null-lean town.

Pseudo looks genuine with his inactivity.

Monk is town.

Friend, why were you pushing a Pseudo vote? Because of his inherent scumminess or because he was inactive?

I only voted Monk because of deadline. Plus someone asked me to vote him and despite my own feelings I voted him. Your play is crap, your posts are crap, you are scum.

Possible scumbuddies are probably Whiskers or Chk.

I would like Ashblade and Pseudo to give an opinion on all three players (Chk, Whiskers, and Emp).

In addition to that, I would like all people on Monk's wagon to explain 1) why he was scummy, and 2) why they were on his wagon.

Empking's play equates to a single sentence. He tunneled Monk.

You call Hiraki and Chk flip two of the three "bitch" trio when your last two posts have probably been the bitchiest and most condescending this game. Keep it up, Whiskers. You'll make friends real fast.

Thank you for voting Empking. I am fine with a Chk lynch tomorrow too. He is number 2 on my list.

[Whiskers]

So, did you ever make a case on me?

[Killjoy]

No but no one was sharing the same opinions so I just thought it was my paranoia.

[Whiskers]

The opinions that I was scum for no reason? O-kay.

We'll finish the roasting of me and then maybe we could move onto you?

[Junpei]

Actually, no. This convo can be rebuilt tomorrow, I"m not going to spend an hour and a half reformatting everything so that Nobody Special can weigh in on it; honestly what are we expecting him to say? We're lynching him today and he has contributed nothing of value all game, his opinion is worthless anyway.

I'll just respond to you whisper, but I'm going to do it in a separate post, not going to carry on the chain of colors