NY 142: Rolling in the Deep, WAIT WAT? PARTY OVER?!

[Beck]

Besides, I hadn't processed the Mafia Doc flip 100% when I posted at day start.

Yeah I remember him doing the 'I never processed it' trick before when he was scum, he got away with it that time.
Not this time, mister.

Link to that game ?

[ZeL1nK]

Pine didn't kill pops obviously.

OK, why do you think he claimed it?

The way I look at it is one of the 2 have to be scum, unless something prevented theam's RB on pine.

right... In other words, there are situations in which both of them aren't scum, and... you don't care.

You defending pine, is quite odd IMO but we can deal with that when we know what pine is.

If you think my 'defense' of pine is weird, then you should think it's weird regardless of his flip.


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If pine is town though, I'd suppose that his list would be true, and the scum would be viijay, sorg, and DGB.

???

???

???

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@maxous,

without being even slightly ambiguous, walk me through each of your thoughts from #2920 and how they make sense because it's honesty baffling me trying to figure out what you were implying there.

to be clear, are you suggesting he's SK or mafia or not-sure-but-think-he's-some-sort-of-scum?

- are you disputing that he shot pops, or saying that he wouldn't shoot pops as town or what?
- are you suggesting that theam (not revenus) was a counter-wagon to Pine (who never really had a major wagon)? do you think he's lying about shooting theam?
- i don't understand why you're asking for another claim. do you actually think that if someone roleblocked pine n1 they should/would claim it? if they're town, why would they out themselves to save him? if they're scum, ditto. would it even change your mind?
- what exactly is your issue with his responses to dgb? do you think he'd have approached this differently as town?

[Beck]

@zel

1. How in the world do I know why he claimed it. Probably to get town cred for killing mafia?

2. Yes your defense is weird regardless, but if he is scum, it makes you look worse than if he is town.

[ZeL1nK]

no.

dgb says 'someone is mod-confirmed scum'

this causes pine to claim vig

why?

if he's scum who is worried about a cop investigation, it makes no sense, so we can deduce that he didn't claim because he was worried about a cop investigation.
if he's scum who is worried about a track/watch result, then it makes sense, but that means he must have performed the kill on pops, otherwise a track/watch result would prove this wrong.

you say you don't think pine performed the kill on pops. why did he claim vig?

[chkflip]

Mod: Does kill flavor vary depending on the role/alignment of the the killer? Does the flavor you write reflect what happened during the night?

1. Yes.

2. No, as that would help mafia much more than it would help town. Flavor is just flavor.

@mod

:

How do you deal with roleblocker v roleblocker action resolution? (specifically a blocks b and b blocks c)

Also want confirmation on Pine's nk flavour stuff.

DarthYoshi and Beck (for once ololo) are right here. B fails because A hit him; however, A can only be A if his action is sent in first.

[Beck]

Ugh, there is no smiley I like to reflect that comment by chk.

[Beck]

@ dgb, for clarification was that a gambit you were doing?

[Maxous]

@Beck: It seems he did'nt use those exact words like I thought but here

~~

to be clear, are you suggesting he's SK or mafia or not-sure-but-think-he's-some-sort-of-scum?

SK

- are you disputing that he shot pops, or saying that he wouldn't shoot pops as town or what?

I'm saying he shot Pops.
As a town vig I would imagine he would of shot Revenus either night. Particulary Night 2 when revenus escaped the rope again.

- are you suggesting that theam (not revenus) was a counter-wagon to Pine (who never really had a major wagon)? do you think he's lying about shooting theam?

I suspect pine is lying about shooting theam yes. I would imagine he shot Hiraki tbh.
If he actually beleived theam was scummy enough to kill, and it failed (Pine beleiving it was because theam is a scum BP or protected by a doc) he would of pushed for theam to be lynched on the start of D2.
I think he decided to use Pops' mafia doctor flip to his advantage.
I was suggesting that the most likely person to get lynched today apart from Pine is theam, a wagon on him was Pine's only chance for survival today.

- i don't understand why you're asking for another claim. do you actually think that if someone roleblocked pine n1 they should/would claim it? if they're town, why would they out themselves to save him? if they're scum, ditto. would it even change your mind?

Cause I think he shot Hiraki, but if he was blocked then he could'nt of.

- what exactly is your issue with his responses to dgb? do you think he'd have approached this differently as town?

His claim that DGB is gambiting and faking a guilty on Pine

purely out of spite

That's bs.
And he knows it because he claimed vig straight away afterwards. So he beleived DGB is in fact

not gambiting

.

Yes, I beleive he would of reacted differently as town, he would'nt of panicked and claimed early like he did. Particulary if he beleived it was only a gambit.

...And now that I think of it, as a town vig why would Pine beleive Rev was a town-aligned JoaT with the power to kill?

[Beck]

Now I will give pine benefit of the doubt on the rev kill, as vig I purposely didn't shoot the person I was going to get lynched d2, but night 2 I definitely killed him.

If pine was sure he was going to get rev lynched, that would make sense. But there is no gurantees in mafia.

[funkybike1]

PROD DODGE

Quick note: I think Beck is scum.

[theamatuer]

PROD DODGE

Quick note: I think Beck is scum.

Prod dodging is stupid and scummy.
Therefore, you are stupid and scummy.

[Beck]

PROD DODGE

Quick note: I think Beck is scum.

Your opinion matters just as much as SV's. Which is absolutely dick.

[sorgster]

If pine is scum and not a sk, zelink is his buddy.

[sorgster]

EBWOP:Zelink has become very vocal after pine is getting attacked.

[Beck]

so pops was pushing hard on zde most of the game, saying he was "confscum" even

is this is avenue we want to pursue?

also what about pops' last line, "when in doubt, Sheep DGB."

what do we make of DGB and his little gambit or whatever.

also he was also trying to get Theam lynched, but than backed off it.

while I wait for DGB to post, this is where I am at.

we actually lynch theam, if he flips RB, than we know pine is probablt scum

RB for town is a hit or miss role anyway, more often than not you are going to block a townie, role blockers work better as a mafia role.

don't get me wrong, I am still fine with a pine lynch, but we may learn more with a theam lynch too.

if all else fails we do have a SV lynch we can rely on

[Pine]

mod isn't going to answer that, plus I doubt the mod told pine anything about mafia kills flip with "died"

He didn't answer a question about it, I think it was an unintentional slip. I was asking a question about my make-your-own-flavor ability, and chk let slip that the Mafia flavor is simply "died". I doubt he considered the ramifications of saying that, as it confirmed to me that there's two Mafia teams (given the flavor of the N1 kills) and gave me a way to confirm that I'm a vig, not Mafia.

@Pine,

what would the flavour be if you targeted a mafia kill?

I don't understand the question.
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@Maxous: I have answered all of the points you've made against me fully and completely. Most of them seem to stem from your lack of understanding of basic vig strategy. YOU DON'T SHOOT PEOPLE YOU CAN GET LYNCHED. You shoot people who are likely to slip away for another day or two. Hiraki was never a strong scumread of mine. Revenus I am POSITIVE I don't have to waste a shot on, as we can get a noose fitted in his size as soon as people stop derailing wagons against him. TheAm was a good shot because although many people agreed he was probably scum, he wasn't high enough on most peoples' list to get a wagon any time soon. Pops was a good kill for the exact same reason, and GUESS WHAT. SCUM.

You don't shoot lurkers until you run out of scumreads. That's not going to happen any time soon. I didn't shoot Hiraki, look at the flavor. Hiraki "died". Pops, my actual kill, was "smothered". WHY THE FUCK WOULD I CLAIM THIS IF I COULDN'T PROVE IT?

I don't think DGB gambited against me

purely

out of spite, though I think that may have been a motive. I knew it was a gambit immediately because "mod-confirmed scum" can ONLY mean a cop result, and I'M TOWN. Barring the existence of the very-rare Framer role, this is impossible. So I called her bluff immediately. When a bad wagon gained momentum, I claimed, thinking perhaps she had a Tracker/Watcher result and was trying to make it more telling than it really was.

Jesus Christ, people, read the fucking thread. I've repeated things two, three, four times now.

[Beck]

Nobody trusts you so nobody is listening to you

[Revenus]

For the record, I buy Pine's claim over theam.

Theam's tone is smug, while Pine is flipping out.

[Beck]

For the record, I buy Pine's claim over theam.

Theam's tone is smug, while Pine is flipping out.

That's actually a good point. If pine remembers that speed mafia, the scum tracker claimed making me look like scum. I was freaking out and the scum tracker remained calm.

[Pine]

Actually, I'm somewhat inclined to believe theAm's roleblocker claim, though not the Town alignment claim that goes along with it. If I were a roleblocker, theAm would be high on my target list. It is quite conceivable that he tried to roleblock me, and got roleblocked himself.

[Pine]

I just don't see any benefit or plausible reason for theAm to claim roleblocking me other than the above scenario.

[sorgster]

For the record, I buy Pine's claim over theam.

Theam's tone is smug, while Pine is flipping out.

That's actually a good point. If pine remembers that speed mafia, the scum tracker claimed making me look like scum. I was freaking out and the scum tracker remained calm.

True but theam could have been protected by hiraki or whoever or another rb could have rbed pine. I want theam lynched but theam was not under enough pressure to claim. Pine, however, was. Pine gets lynched this day phase. If pine was telling the truth, theam gets lynched next day phase. I don't want a potential sk alive.

Pine you believe theam's roleblocker claim even though he claims he roleblocked you night 2? Interesting.

[sorgster]

EBWOP:That must have been a slip by pine.

[theamatuer]

I expect you asked the mod about the kill flavor D2 and decided to claim vig with that as proof.
I think all the maf are able to do so.
Pedit: he's flipping out since he's maf getting lynched due to an inconsistency he made with his previous actions
Pedit: chkflip says that it's only if they sent in their actions first. I sent in my actions only a few hours after the start of N2

[Pine]

Sorgster, you're not paying attention. I think TheAm got roleblocked, which per mod, prevents his block of me.