Imperial Intrigue (Endgame, OUT OF NOWHERE)

[MattP]

Vote: Empking

He is currently the most scummy after reading through the thread.

[MattP]

Vote:

Shinki

Reason:

Posts 125 and 755. You're not going to answer important questions, such as the East question, because you'll "just let town deal with him"? What does that mean? Please explain that. Until you do my vote is staying.

[MattP]

Shinki, I still want you to answer the question about the East. :/

[MattP]

I could tell you about that, Matt, but right after my post Wraith posted this:

Okay this is starting to get ridiculous.

You guys are not going to find out who is what alignment from the flavor. I've either left it totally ambiguous or am outright lying about certain elements to keep roles secret. Do not take this as me being a bastard mod and lying to you about your own roles, I'm just saying that this flavor speculation is getting out of hand and will not solve anything.

If the speculation continues on the scale it's on now then I will move from "ambiguous" to "deliberately deceptive" in my mod flavor, and/or ban paraphrasing of role PM flavor altogether.

So, yeah... discouraged pretty much to continue with the topic after that

I respect that Wraith doesn't want us talking about that, but at the same time you made your post prior to Wraith's and I think clarification of your post is very important. I am sure Wraith would permit you answering a question that could potentially sway a vote. Please and thank you.

[MattP]

STOP TRYING TO STALL THE MACDOUGAL LYNCH. If Macdougall flips scum this is his buddy.

Think what you wish. Just because I am not quick to vote and actually want to see both sides does not make me scum, I'm pretty sure it makes me more town than the players who are voting blindly.

[MattP]

All right, that is fair enough.

Unvote

I am going to read through one more time and then make a vote.

[MattP]

Vote: MacDougall

Reason:

773 and 767. Thank you, monk, very helpful posts.

[MattP]

Oh, and what excuse you'll try out? Miller? Something else? Give it a try.

Are you saying what I think you're saying?

I am pretty sure.

[MattP]

Unvote

Vote: StrangerCroug

[MattP]

MacDougall is suspect and annoying, but yes, we lynch you today.

Oi, personal attacks =/= nice

[MattP]

fos: mattp

steps his game up after Empking dies coz he knows he's in trouble.

I did not "step up my game". It was hell week for a play I was directing. I had classes every day until 6 and then rehearsal after that until 12am. I would then go home in a coma and sleep. I am "stepping up my game" because I have time to.

[MattP]

unvote;vote:SC

MacDougall and Matt P are still scum though.

Please tell me how I am scum. Because I wanted to find out more about the questions posed on shinki? I hadn't realized that trying instead of taking the easy way and voting was a scumtell. Thanks for informing me, I'm new to this forum.

[MattP]

unvote;vote:SC

MacDougall and Matt P are still scum though.

Please tell me how I am scum. Because I wanted to find out more about the questions posed on shinki? I hadn't realized that trying instead of taking the easy way and voting was a scumtell. Thanks for informing me, I'm new to this forum.

This is PRETTY MUCH why I'm scum to them. Also don't bother trying to explain yourself, that just makes you more scummy. Just give up on this game because you're next in line after me.

You could also be mafia trying to buddy me so that they kill me after you.

[MattP]

So Shinki wasn't detective then. O.o Well, that's surprising.

[MattP]

For the time being : VOTE: MattP for thinking he can cruise through Day 4 like if it were Day 1.

I haven't played on this forum and was therefore confused by the role of gunsmith, and by voicing my confusion I am cruising through day 4? O.o

[MattP]

Which brings me to point out kdowns, Nero Cain, SodaSpirit along with manho for blindly following the wagon. If you voted against MattP for my reasons, then you are doing the same thing that you accuse him of, if you have another reason, please tell us.

Hey Matt can you link me to same past games?

Though it does give me great pause that Soda and Manho are also voting him but given this is a possible multiball game then I don't really care if scum vote other scum.

EC's not knowing what a gunsmith is seems fake. He's been here since 2009.

Are you referring to me? This is only my second game on this forum. My first was in the Newbie Corner with only three power roles available, none of which were Gunsmith.

My point is that I posted once with something I was confused about. I want to know where you think I am cruising. I simply want to know so that I can figure out how to improve my game in the future, because I was not intending whatsoever to "cruise".

[MattP]

I know what he is saying. We have played on another forum together where I am more aggressive. Since I am not playing that way I assume he thinks I am scummy. However, the reason I am not playing that way is because I don't know anyone here and am more reluctant to play the way I am comfortable playing yet.

[MattP]

Which brings me to point out kdowns, Nero Cain, SodaSpirit along with manho for blindly following the wagon. If you voted against MattP for my reasons, then you are doing the same thing that you accuse him of, if you have another reason, please tell us.

Following? Yes.

Blindly? No

His vote on EMP is a weak link and its his first post in the game so was he just lurking for 21 pages then see's the Emp wagon and votes or what?

His vote on Shinki in 760 sucks b/c he's using reasons from before his 522 which lends merit to the theory that he didn't read and just blindly voted EMP.

Does the same with MacDougall.

Hey Matt can you link me to same past games?

Though it does give me great pause that Soda and Manho are also voting him but given this is a possible multiball game then I don't really care if scum vote other scum.

EC's not knowing what a gunsmith is seems fake. He's been here since 2009.

Just fully understood this.

My vote on Empking was my first post because I was unable to get online and post before that due to RL. After reading up I decided that Empking was the best choice, and guess what? He was scum.

My vote on Shinki was not a vote to actually get her lynched, it was a vote because apparently on this forum when people want to get a response from someone they vote for them to spur them to do so. I had a question for her I wanted answered, I was just following how everyone else does it.

My vote on MacDougall? That was not a bad vote. I said explicitly in the post where I voted that I was doing so based on previous conversatin about him and outlined the posts that convinced me.

[MattP]

By the way, how exactly is MacDougall not mafia?

[MattP]

SleepyKrew... seriously?

unvote
Vote: SleepyKrew for being an idiot
unvote
Vote: DavidX. Sure whainaut

Why did you vote for David then? Actual reasoning please. No bullshit like, "whainot". SleepyKrew dayvigd Samantha on a horrible whim and then says, "Ohay ever1 lez kill diz gui" and you just shrug and vote? Scummy scummy scum scum.

It's so tempting to hammer SK to get rid of him ... but I believe he his aligned with me.

QFT. However, if we want to take the risk, we could. It might not pay off though. I don't see any of his actions at all to be towny.

It

might

not pay off? You mean lynching the player that just proved he was a day vig may perhaps not pay off? Of course it wouldn't pay off.

These two posts make me think Soda is scum. I'm going to try and be more vocal now about my reads. Apologies.

[MattP]

Vote: Sodaspirit

[MattP]

What the f?
Why are we lynching MattP?
The case against him is so fucking weak compared to MacDougall or screamoutscummieVez.

I am just as confused as you are.

[MattP]

Question, if everyone is so positive that SodaSprite is mafia, why are contemplating lynching MacNoodles and eWok? I mean, I'm not saying we

shouldn't

be, but what's all the holdup on the Sprite lynch? Plus, does anyone have any unanswered questions from Sprite, and where the heck is he?

[MattP]

Soda is L-3.

[MattP]

Question, if everyone is so positive that SodaSprite is mafia, why are contemplating lynching MacNoodles and eWok? I mean, I'm not saying we

shouldn't

be, but what's all the holdup on the Sprite lynch? Plus, does anyone have any unanswered questions from Sprite, and where the heck is he?

SodaSpirit, Vezok and myself are all suspects and nobody seems to favour one more than the other.

The hold up is that we're still discussing the lynch. Why do you want him lynched so quick? We just had what felt like a fortnight straight of night and you want to go straight back there?

No, we're not discussing the lynch of Soda (well, now it had been discussed a little bit more). It seems like people are positive Soda is mafia and then are discussing whether to lynch you or VeWok next. Therefore, I was asking what the holdup was. However, seems like people are flipping to lynch you.

[MattP]

@mbstoken:

You say you've played with MattP before. If these games have completed, can you link them please?

I'd provide you with links myself, but the forum requires you register to see them.

[MattP]

My vote on Empking was my first post because I was unable to get online and post before that due to RL. After reading up I decided that Empking was the best choice, and guess what? He was scum.

My vote on Shinki was not a vote to actually get her lynched, it was a vote because apparently on this forum when people want to get a response from someone they vote for them to spur them to do so. I had a question for her I wanted answered, I was just following how everyone else does it.

My vote on MacDougall? That was not a bad vote. I said explicitly in the post where I voted that I was doing so based on previous conversatin about him and outlined the posts that convinced me.

Well my whole thing is you said you found Emp the scummiest but you didn't show any work. For all I know it was a bus on your buddy for town cred.

Your Shinki vote makes a little more sense here. Still don't understand what 125 had to do with it though. Did you find this post scummy? Why did you not mention anything about it on day 1.

Mac is scummy to me. Your questioning Shinki about the East when you line of reasoning was "Emp was scum from the east* so it deff looked like an attempt to stall/derail the Mac lynch. I called you on it. You then voted Mac with reasoning from pages ago that you supposedly already read.

For Empking I simply agreed with everyone and was, I admit, a little bit overwhelmed with the activity and not knowing anyone and was very busy so did not have time to analyze every post he made. I've been attempting to put my feet in the water more. However, the most obvious scum points I felt were already illustrated and didn't see any need to be redundant.

I didn't mention anything about Shinki's post on day 1 because I had not read through everything. I fully admit that. It was only after I went back that it made me question his town-ness

I stalled the vote on Mac. I 100% admit that. That is because I like having an idea of both sides before deciding who to vote for. Shinki was being rude and was telling MacDougall that she won't answer his questions, which I thought were valid, because she doesn't have to. I thought that was a stupid reason not to answer questions. Therefore, I thought if I added extra pressure for a response she would give one, and she did. I thought her response was townish and as a result backed off.

[MattP]

MacDougall, I'm trying to lynch Soda O.o

[MattP]

EBWOP: Not that that necessarily proves I'm village, but come on, would I try to push a lynch against my last mafia brethren?

[MattP]

Here is why it would be stupid to bus a fellow mafia this round. If one did it would not even matter since there are two mafia supposedly. Therefore, the village could just assume that you are part of the

other

mafia group, which would make bussing a fellow mafia useless.

[MattP]

Vote: Empking

He is currently the most scummy

after reading through the thread.

I didn't mention anything about Shinki's post on day 1

because I had not read through everything

.

These two statements do not match. What did you read? Why did you not read everything?

wb to my scumdar.

Let me clarify. I filtered out Empking's posts and read them. As I said, I was incredibly busy and therefore was not posting. I only got on because I was prodded and even then I started reading the thread. I just didn't have time, so I looked at the names of the most suspicious people and then filtered out the posts and checked theres. I didn't want to say, "He is currently the most scummy after nitpicking through a moderate portion of the previous posts"

I then went back when I actually had time and read everything.

[MattP]

EBWOP: I believe I read through SleepyKrew's, Empking's and David's posts the first day. I then went back.

[MattP]

V/LA

I have an o chem midterm on Thursday.

[MattP]

We lynch you today. If you flip scum, I'm right and booyah, go me. If you flip town, we lynch me tomorrow.

Worst strategy ever.

I hate when people offer this. Especially since you're probably town.

Anyways, I am 99% positive Andrius is town based on his wall. VERY insightful Andrius. Looking back, I do agree mostly with MacDougall talking so plainly about Shinki being cop looking scummy. Hell, why the fuck would a townie do that? I kind of think MD would make more sense as an indie than scum though.

I don't get MD's "no lynch" post but I don't think it's a HUGE deal. I could write it off as being newbie if anything.

Since I haven't posted my reads yet I can say fairly confidently that Andrius, EtherealCookie and AGar are village. I still think Soda is scum but he has gone into super-stalk mode lately. Vezok looks like VI but could very possibly be scum. Both should post more so I can get better reads.

[MattP]

@MOD

: Can you fix my quote tags? Thanks.

[MattP]

SleepyKrew... seriously?

unvote
Vote: SleepyKrew for being an idiot
unvote
Vote: DavidX. Sure whainaut

Why did you vote for David then? Actual reasoning please. No bullshit like, "whainot". SleepyKrew dayvigd Samantha on a horrible whim and then says, "Ohay ever1 lez kill diz gui" and you just shrug and vote? Scummy scummy scum scum.

It's so tempting to hammer SK to get rid of him ... but I believe he his aligned with me.

QFT. However, if we want to take the risk, we could. It might not pay off though. I don't see any of his actions at all to be towny.

It

might

not pay off? You mean lynching the player that just proved he was a day vig may perhaps not pay off? Of course it wouldn't pay off.

These two posts make me think Soda is scum. I'm going to try and be more vocal now about my reads. Apologies.

^This post explains is SS17, and on top of that you have been very quiet. You still haven't answered my question from this post.

New info which makes you look suspicious to me:

i had my suspicions of vezok earlier.

Drawing suspicion on vezok with no reasoning as to why. Seem to be trying to cause a lynch on him and whether that is to save yourself or to get rid of scum I would like some more explanation. Why do you have suspicion of vezok?

I could support an AGar lynch, or some pressure at least.

Here is a second post where you call someone out, this time outright supporting a lynch. Why do you support a lynch? How would one put pressure on AGar? It seems by this point you are not saying these things to promote or facilitate village discussion but rather to make the blame get off of you.

I've seen newbie scum do the NL as well. And I jumped on him too. Kicked my ass afterwards... It's a legit scumslip.

And here is a THIRD attempt, on a THIRD player, to get them lynched. First vezok, then AGar, and then MacDougall. You provide no reasoning for any of them, instigate no voting on them but wait for others to (which I personally believe is very scummy since you try to avoid being in the spotlight per say) and are being incredibly quiet. All three of these things make me think you are scum.

[MattP]

that was during the RVSstage..

I wouldn't have considered that point part of the RV stage. Also you failed to repsond to any other part of my post.

[MattP]

Let's do this.

Proposed Alliance Voting Bloc:

AGar
Cookie
Andrius
Nero Cain
PeregrineV
kdowns
(vezok?)

First off,

Vote: MacDougall

Reason:

Callingvout Andrius with no reasoning, has been accused time and time again for being mafia, I already stated I think he is at the very least indie, so in any case it's worth the kill, since we're pretty down right now.

Second off, proposed alliance voting bloc? Waddya mean exactly?

[MattP]

Let's do this.

Proposed Alliance Voting Bloc:

AGar
Cookie
Andrius
Nero Cain
PeregrineV
kdowns
(vezok?)

First off,

Vote: MacDougall

Reason:

Callingvout Andrius with no reasoning, has been accused time and time again for being mafia, I already stated I think he is at the very least indie, so in any case it's worth the kill, since we're pretty down right now.

Second off, proposed alliance voting bloc? Waddya mean exactly?

Basically, a group of people that the founders (AGar and I) find either:
a) all town-reads
or
b) townreads and people we can control via the bloc

Basically we all agree to form a town voting bloc, which is all of us coming together and voting AS ONE. So in an ideal world we'd pick only townies, and all of us would coordinate lynches and push through with a larger number of votes. If you have faith in your townreads you're fighting the informed minority with a large body of semi-informed majority.

Basically we're creating a pseudo-masonry with townreads.
vezok, being uncontrollable as either alignment, is probably not a good choice for the bloc because of precisely that.

For references, see such games as Werewolf: Wisborg Asylum for some alliance play, along with Frenzy Mafia, which is the last time I led a Bloc.

Ahhh, ok, thanks for the clarification.

[MattP]

MattP: At first, he seemed to be in a similar situation to mine, but I now realise he has literally gone the easy lynch every time. Has been on all the wagons and is just coasting. Somehow squirms off the hook when confronted. Probscum.

First off, I am pretty sure I was the first or second vote for Soda (not that that's a good thing, just saying I don't coast). Other votes I provided reasoning for.

Second,

Unvote: MacDougall

I think you saying you were VT was genuine. Pretty damn positive MacDougall is town.

Bogre, why are you so damn quiet all round may I ask?

[MattP]

Also, this is the first week since playing that I dont have anything to study for so I'll have oodles of time. I will get up an analysis of every remaining player this weekend (besides Andrius and MacDougall, since the thing that changed my opinion of MacDougall was one post I already showed, and I already explained my opinion on Andrius which has remained the same).

[MattP]

Also, this is the first week since playing that I dont have anything to study for so I'll have oodles of time. I will get up an analysis of every remaining player this weekend (besides Andrius and MacDougall, since the thing that changed my opinion of MacDougall was one post I already showed, and I already explained my opinion on Andrius which has remained the same).

[MattP]

Sorry, got distracted by Halloween =/ Going out now but I will read up tomorrow.

[MattP]

After reading through I think that EC/MacDougall/Magua makes the most sense as scum, with Andrius, manho, Agar, Peregrine, Nero Cain being town. Kdowns and Vezok are OMGUS but town probably, Bogre needs to post more, can be scum or cannot be.

I will really try to get out the whys of all of these reads but I have to get up at 8 for class and it's already past 3. I'll try my best to get it done tomorrow. Already told you all I have a busy next two weeks. :/

With that being said,

Vote: Macdougall

[MattP]

You are trying really hard to buddy Agar.

You're trying too hard.

Andrius isn't buddying Agar in a scummy way. Either he is village or he is

really

ballsy with how blatantly obvious he would be about buddying. I don't think it's the latter because why would scum decide to take a ballsy move like that? It would serve them no purpose. Last time I checked buddying is never immediately perceived as a townish thing to do, so why would a scum that is in no immediate danger do it?

[MattP]

And we are at L-1 once again.

[MattP]

FAIL.

unvote vote macdougall

I thought I was already voting him. I have no idea how that happened.

@MacDougall- no reason for town to hammer themselves ever IMO

Correction: No reason for town OR mafia to hammer themselves ever. It's called playing to lose.

[MattP]

Good to know!

Np babe, just thought you needed clarification since you seem a little bit confused

[MattP]

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p3563277]
No one's going to hammer a MacDougall lynch. Let's get a counterwagon going.
[/quote]
I will hammer a MacDougall lynch. Speak for yourself.

[MattP]

EBWOP:
Fail quote

And I *would* hammer it.

unvote: MacDougall

Go ahead, vote for him and I'll finish it. If the reason people aren't willing to vote someone off is because they're afraid they have to be the hammer then fuck it, I'll take the blame if he ends up being village. I'm pretty confidant he isn't.

[MattP]

I'm here too. I have to be at work in 13 minutes. Blargh, I will try to find time tonight to respond MacDougall.

[MattP]

Andrius seems town to me. I think scum is pulling a fast one :/ I just got home and it's 3am. I am sorry, I planned to respond to you MacDougall but RL is getting in the way, which I had warned about.

Vote:

Magua

Reason:

So blatantly scum after his rant. Him and EC. I'm calling it now.

[MattP]

I still feel pretty sure about Magua/EC.

MacDougall, question, why did you so quickly revote andrius after Magua's little censor rage?

[MattP]

Nah, I got that

Yeah, I'm gonna vote Magua as well. No, I'm not bandwagoning MacDougall, I had voted Magua yesterday and I intend to follow through with that vote today. Him and EC, if I'm wrong I'll eat rusty nails.

vote: Magua

[MattP]

I figured that scum would be all over me today. lol

Hey Dougall. You are no longer my biggest scum read but its HARD to give you a town read b/c you're so flip floppy. As of post 1325 Mag was a town read and MattP was your biggest scumread. But your voting Mag, so what changed your mind? Was it Andys flip? Is Matt P still on your list?

We should be voting Vezok or EC.

vote:Vezok

I am up for Magua or EC currently, but why Vezok over Magua? Do you think Magua is a village read and why?

[MattP]

Wait, what? But you don't know WHO roleblocked you. On top of that, how do you know you were roleblocked, you're told those things?

[MattP]

VOTE: MattP

If only you read the rest of 1410 you would see that he said "Jokes on you. I'm VT"

Your reaction is clearly scum.

Lolwut? I acknowledge he said that. I'm asking him how he knows he was rbd and how he knows it was Nero Cain. Isn't VT Vanilla Townie? As in, they don't have any specials?

[MattP]

It's already established that we get told we were roleblocked. It happened to me on night 2 and if you read carefully through the OP's it says it.

Oh ok then, whoops.

[MattP]

Am I the only one who read the Vezok claimed VT?

Everyone read it. I don't understand how that makes NC mafia. I think you're missing the point here.

[MattP]

I still feel pretty sure about Magua/EC.

Which scumteam do you see me on? Empking/PeregrineV, or StrangerCoug/manho?

What about EtherealCookie?

I'd guess you and EC are mafia together. This is due to distancing from yesterday between you two. You and manho don't fit as mafia together. Therefore, I'd put you and EC with Empking/Peregrine.

However, that would mean that there are 4 mafia in the empking group and as a result probably 4 in the SC group, which would be a ridiculously large amount of mafia.

The distancing between you two could have just been sincere, meaning that you wouldn't be on the same team. Basically, I'd say that you are definitely not in the SC group and with EC I am not sure which group he would be in.

[MattP]

Empking(12):

EtherealCookie

, SleepyKrew,

Magua

, Otolia, manho, MattP, StrangerCoug, SodaSpirit17, Nero Cain , kdowns, Shinki, Nero Cain, MacDougall

Just want to make sure you're serious on this.

I have started bandwagons on my own scumbuddies so many times it's ridiculous, and guess what, many of those times I cruised through without so much as a raise of the eyebrow. I don't consider that a reason to discount you, in fact, the fact that you both jumped on the wagon so quickly, one after the other, is even more disconcerting.

[MattP]

EBWOP: EC didn't jump on the wagon, he started it. I just want to clarify before someone calls it out.

[MattP]

MattP that is absurd. Sure there is a very remote chance that they bussed Empking but Empking proved to be an important scum role and they had no need to hunt him the way they did. It's not like before they chimed in he was already as good as dead. I don't believe either of them are on the Empking team.

It's far more likely that he was trying to bus manho, but the logic you display in saying "you don't go with manho (because you tried to get him lynched) but you go with empking (who you bussed entirely from the beginning and which makes far less sense) is not good.

I'm considering unvoting Magua because of this. I'd like for Magua to explain to me how he is conclusively not on the same team as manho.

Just sayin' I've done this before, many times. I would provide links but you would have to register to the forum. My point is that I don't believe is discounts them from being mafia with Empking, especially if they are experienced players.

The reason why I believe that the manho distancing seems more genuine is because with Empking EC made ZERO posts alluding to Empking being mafia before voting him. Magua made one. That one post only said that he was up for an Empking lynch. There was no distancing at all, rather a quick start of a bandwagon. It could very easily be scum strategy.

My point is not that it INCRIMINATES them, my point is that it does not disqualify them from being scum with Empking. I'm making that point due to personal experience.

[MattP]

Didn't your case ultimately boil down to them being partners with at least one of the deceased scum?

And... post #335 in Magua's ISO. Read it. Then read the next few. You are wrong.

My case did not "boil down to that". I am saying during the interractions yesterday Andrius was a clear town read to me, which I stated multiple times, and the interractions between Magua, EC and Andrius made me sure the former two were scum. In any case, I missed those several posts by Magua when reading over (before you call me out on that, I have an organic chemistry and biology midterm this week, which is why I said I'd be much less active and could be replaced, so I can't be totally on top of it). It makes it less likely that he is partners with Empking simply because it makes it not a distancing vote (he didn't immediately vote, he first brought up valid points). Additionally, since he posted that and then EC voted prior to him, yet he still voted afterwards, makes it even LESS likely (voting with no reason not guaranteeing people will bandwagon =/= providing valid reasoning to suggest a lynch and then spurring a bandwagon by being one of the first bandwagon votes). However, EC can DEFINITELY still be mafia with Empking.

And with that, I'm gonna assume that Magua just had a shitty read on Andrius, pushed it out of boldness and is town. To prevent scum hammering him, I'm gonna

Unvote

.

[MattP]

Magua, what is your read on AGar currently? Cuz his last post was pretty damn scummy if I do say so myself.

[MattP]

Yeo, after reevaluating I think AGaR is scum. His interactions with MacDougall throughout the round actually made me think him a 2-dimensional townie, because I don't see scum being so audacious. However, this new post was just a blatant and easy attempt for him to get you lynched. I think he is mafia with manho.

Vote:

AGaR

[MattP]

EBWOP:

Vote:

AGaR

[MattP]

Also, I have very little read on Bogre. He is barely contributing to the round. If anything I think there are bigger and louder fish to fry right now. I'd put him more towards scum than town however due to general stalkitude and slight buddying with me. That's really all I have right now to base my read off of.

[MattP]

Your stance is that you were roleblocked last Night and that Nero Cain roleblocked you.

Got that part.

But what makes Nero Cain the roleblocker?

Who else besides Nero is mafia?

Nero came out of the gates with a vote on me.

That means nothing. It could be the fact that you come off as scummy a lot. I, unlike Nero, am contributing that to VI status. Also, you never answered who else you think is mafia.

[MattP]

AGaR, who do you think Magua could be scum with and why?

[MattP]

Your stance is that you were roleblocked last Night and that Nero Cain roleblocked you.

Got that part.

But what makes Nero Cain the roleblocker?

Who else besides Nero is mafia?

Nero came out of the gates with a vote on me.

That means nothing. It could be the fact that you come off as scummy a lot.

I, unlike Nero, am contributing that to VI status.

Also, you never answered who else you think is mafia.

Which for me is a large reason I find him scummy. He knows he's considered a VI. He can use said status to get away with all shorts of things.

Yes, but by this point I'd rather not take the chance of voting off a VI when we know he is a VI, especially after Soda. I think EC is a bigger and better fish to fry.

[MattP]

Vote: EC

[MattP]

EtherealCookie. Scum. Covering it, obviously.

[MattP]

Vote: Bogre

Bogre is at L-1

[MattP]

Players that will be remaining after this lynch that may be mafia (in my opinion. I think dougall and magua are town). Out of them, 1 or 3 are mafia. Sorry to be annoying, but could everyone list these five from most to least scummy / why they are in that order? There are some of you that have not made your opinions known. I'll start:

16. vezokpiraka -- The VI cover is wearing thin. If there are 3 mafia left it's pretty much irrefutable that he is scum. This is because kdowns is probs town so with a75% chance of hitting it would not be hard to believe that a player that is acting scum, whether VI or not, is scum. He is my next lynch target.
24. Nero Cain -- If there are 3 scum I'd bet he is partner with Bogre based off 1503. He put bogre as his second option to be lynched. Jeez, how many times does scum do that? However, could also very well be scum with vezok.
7. AGar -- Could very well be scum. I don't like his pushes on Magua and MacDougall, but he is also being ballsy and that usually doesn't correlate with scum. Still, if there are three more mafia he is one of them.
19. kdowns -- Pretty much town
18. MattP -- I have a STRONG feeling he is town. If you lynch him and he turns up scum, lynch me next

[MattP]

How exactly do we know that you're not scum?

Also, since it's not lylo that means that there is only one scum left, right?

[MattP]

Vezok, explain to me why Nero is scum. I, as I had stated, planned to vote you today. However, we will be in lylo tomorrow if we mislynch so I'm giving you a chance. Go ahead, tell me.

[MattP]

AGar, vezok has yet to really say why anyone is scum, but he is voting for nero. I want to know WHY he is voting nero. It's my strategy to vote people and try and force them to explain themselves, but when me voting him would put him at L-1, I am not willing to. Therefore, I am using scare tactics to make him think that if he does not answer I will vote for him. Does that explain it for you?

[MattP]

Hold on a sec, how the heck did you deduce that vezok was town from his post? There is no way to know he was even roleblocked, or who roleblocked him.

Nero, to answer your question I didn't know if it was lylo because I thought there were 4 mafia left yesterday but then two were killed so I thought 2, but Wraith didn't say it was lylo so I was then confused. After clearing it up I realized it was not lylo.

AGaR, you're being opportunistic as hell. I tried pushing you before but it didn't work out. Just saying everyone, after you lynch me tonight itll be lylo. Don't be so sure it's not AGaR tomorrow. We were sure Magua wasn't mafia and he ended up being mafia, so don't give AGaR the same benefit.

[MattP]

but Wraith didn't say it was lylo so I was then confused. After clearing it up I realized it was not lylo.

I've never ever seen a game where the mod confirmed LYLO. This is the worst excuse I have ever heard.

This is my first legit game on this forum. Sorry for having the wrong impression >.>

If you all think I'm the most suspicious, then go ahead, I'm not gonna fight too hard, we luckily have another chance tomorrow and finals are coming up so I should be directing all of my focus towards them. Just remember for tomorrow, there is nothing which proves AGaR's innocence, nor is there anything which proves vezok's innocence.

[MattP]

EBWOP: Question, why are we assuming there is only one mafia left when there have been three killed from both sides and the round is still going on? Shouldn't there be one more mafia from each side, making us currently be in lylo?

[MattP]

I have no idea what you're talking about, I said that I didn't know that lylo wasn't announced because I misinterpreted from another player here that it was that way. Relax, babe.

I don't think they ARE mafia, I just think that there is NOTHING which proves they are NOT mafia. I had initially stated the same about Magua and EC despite everyone's protests, and guess what, Magua was scum (he played a damn good game though). Yes, there is reason to believe AGaR/Vezok may not be mafia (I feel this way more so for AGaR than Vezok), but there is no reason to just discount them. I could have put Vezok at L-1 but I didn't because I wasn't ready, and this was before I was up to be lynched. If I wasn't impulsive before I was on the block, why would I be impulsive now that I

am

on the block? Point is I will do more harm for village by trying to save myself and in the process getting someone incorrectly lynched than just being lynched myself because with the former the mafia would use that against me tomorrow and get me lynched (if this is not lylo). Rather, by not voting until I have a good idea or just letting myself get lynched in order to not form false leads I would be giving town more of a chance tomorrow. Idgaf if I die, I give a fuck if town loses.

Sorry that I don't immediately know how people are divided up. Sorry that I don't have insight into those groups even though I am town and town does not have insight into them. Yes, chances are there is a 3rd party group possible, which would be one of the two groups that are already presented (Eastern and Bremburg?) I don't know which one. They could also both be mafia groups. Point is, who even cares? We have to lynch both groups whether they are indie, mafia, or flying banana monsters. Don't nitpick stupid shit.

[MattP]

So is this when noone says anything?

[MattP]

The post, AGaR, was me realizing that maybe I shouldn't go down so easily because if there are two scum left and I die then town loses. That would therefore change my strategy.

The is not indicative of vezok being town, vezok doesn't know if we are in lylo and if we are not and he is scum and he hammers, guess who is prime suspect tomorrow? Him. Sure as hell not kdowns and probs not nero.

[MattP]

EBWOP: That is not indicative*

[MattP]

Going back over the thread I think that Nero is scum. He was so avid to lynch Vezok and

suddenly

, surprise surprise, as soon as I am brought up by AGaR he realizes how scummy I am and votes for me. He has been under the radar the ENTIRE round. If there is a second mafia it is important to not just drop vezok/AGaR. First off, if there are two mafia left they are of two different factions and therefore why would vezok start a hammer if he doesn't know that we are in lylo since he doesn't know if there is anyone left from the other faction. AGaR has been playing a steady town game, but there is nothing which disproves him as mafia, he pushed for a MacDougall lynch the entire round, and even though the way he did it was town, that's the thing, he seems experienced just like Magua and I think he could be that ballsy based on his ferocity.

So Nero/Vezok is my final guess.

If we are in lylo then it's time to actually try to turn this lynch around.

Vote: Nero

[MattP]

Did you not see the part where I said you are probs town? You guys nitpick the most absurd stuff. Also, that wouldn't be a good move for vezok, it would mean he would have to make it through two more lynches after this when he is one of the top two suspects. I would never do it.

You want me to commit to something even though I committed to voting Nero? Would you like me swear on the Bible or something that he is scum?

[MattP]

Kk, don't know what to say back to the first line. So sure, I can do that. I also could be sincere. If you wanna continue on your fascinating tangent you can go an blind yourself to the fact that it is completely a null move, then whatever floats your boat.

Jeez, is sincerity so looked down upon on this forum? I didn't know that explaining my emotional progression has a negative connotation, but they even have an acronym for it!

I do care, you are blatantly slandering me now. Keep feeling superior and that you can stretch the truth, after I'm gone you're next.

OOOOhhhhh, so there are two scum factions of unequal size and then one independent. Dang, u smart!

Oh look, me being pushed to make a decision and then naturally making a decision is considered OMGUS to you. I'm not even surprised anymore.

I said yesterday that vezok should go next. Seriously, you should be a politician.

Woa, maybe cuz kdowns and myself are the only two provable nonscum to me. Maybe it's because I'm not quick to discount people from scum for arbitrary reasoning due to past experience where that bit me in the ass. Is it ok if I say that or is it too EAT for you?

[MattP]

My case is that Nero is so damn eager to lynch me and I think his recent, propaganda-filled posts make him look scummy as hell. Did I simplify it enough for you?

[MattP]

b/c I think you are scum.

Oh, so you are using propaganda because you think I am scum. Cool story bro.

[MattP]

Now that I am hammered I will say that I

am

town. Nero next.

[MattP]

Awesome hosting, Wraith, thanks.

Yeah, I didn't really get involved initially because I felt overwhelmed by not knowing anyone, but by the end it was fun.

[MattP]

What is the dead QT link btw?

[MattP]

Awesome game. I was afraid there was still a third party and two scums left but I hoped that wasn't true. At least I figured out al the townies alive at end game.

BTW who roleblocked me the last two nights?

Nero, you were right

[MattP]

I was hoping Mattp could pull it out in the end.

Sorry about that. I made a few screwy posts and I couldn't come back from them. I tried. I had a feeling nero was mafia at the end and was hoping if he flipped scum that people would hopefully not per say trust me more but doubt their previous thoughts about the players (I of course didn't know AGaR had investigated vezok. I pretty much knew that I was screwed at final 8 when you were being lynched and it was confirmed when I saw the line-up for the last day. AGaR and kdowns were sure as hell not getting lynched and Nero was probably not getting lynched over me (and vezok either, but I didn't know that). Any advice for something I could have done to perhaps pull it through?