Trouble in Minas Tirith! Game over!

[ages]

Rest assured i'm not about to vote for you Tigris as the deadline has now been extended. I'd rather hear what the rest of the town has to say before deciding whether or not you are vote worthy.

[mlaker]

Just confirming. I'll read the thread and post my thoughts.

[Dragon Slayer]

I agree with Thoth. I hadn't even thought of it that much until he mentioned that. It's highly unlikely they would both go out if from the same group.

[bigbenwd]

this game is at a standstill, anybody have any ideas? even semi-ideas?

[ages]

<not very well thought through semi idea>

How do the mafia communicate at night? Obviously by pm, but thats not what I mean, How do they communicate in the game world? I always assumed they phoned each other, but there aren't any phones in LOTR. What if, mafia had to go to the same place at night to communicate with each other. This would make FDs role have more use.

My pet theory then is that ZONEACE, Tigris and Thoth are scum together, and were all in the same place to communicate the first night. We know ZONEACE was scum, and i've already outlined my suspicions of Tigris, but unofortunatly for me, Thoth seems squeaky clean and seems very unlikely to be scum with ZONEACE.

</not very well thought through semi idea>

[mathcam]

Well, I anticipate that we'll be at a standstill again until Macros gets frustrated and reimposes our dealine again, at which point we will be in the same place we were before. I think it's pretty clear no new information is going to make itself available, so I'm going to leave my vote where my gut told me to put it. On Tigris.

Cam

[Macros]

mathcam seems to be very astute at reading me, i deadline the game, posting increases, i extend the deadline, the game dies, you have 24 hours to the deadline
MOST VOTES GETS LYCNHED

[bigbenwd]

<not very well thought through semi idea>

How do the mafia communicate at night? Obviously by pm, but thats not what I mean, How do they communicate in the game world? I always assumed they phoned each other, but there aren't any phones in LOTR. What if, mafia had to go to the same place at night to communicate with each other. This would make FDs role have more use.

My pet theory then is that ZONEACE, Tigris and Thoth are scum together, and were all in the same place to communicate the first night. We know ZONEACE was scum, and i've already outlined my suspicions of Tigris, but unofortunatly for me, Thoth seems squeaky clean and seems very unlikely to be scum with ZONEACE.

</not very well thought through semi idea>

thats all we got i guess, so...

vote:tigris

[Tigris]

*warning* irritated post
It would also completely unbalance the game. Additionally, there is a number game that (to my eye) would cause that to be unlikely.

There are three killing groups+. Let's assume 1 sk and two mafias. Now then, if Thoth, ZA, Fishbulb, and I were all in a mafia, the other mafia would likely have 4 as well to balance the game more properly. That would mean that out of 22 players, 9 are evil, which is highly unlikely.

Okay, that's it, you have officially irritated me with your crap logic. Point one, who is the one that helped ZA on the first day, it wasn't me, look in the mirror for a moment and you'll see. First, you tell him to give more information as your role received more then he initially provided. Then you proceeded to find a description of the role in Encyclopedia of Arda. Oh and need I really say that you didn't vote for zoneace? Don't throw stones from glass houses.

Combine that with following the bandwagon on Leo, which I thought was complete bunk and was fairly blunt about my opinion on it. Oh wait, I defended Leo too, twice even, you even quoted it one time, but let's forget about that.

Oh and combine that with the fact that

one

of the Haradrim was a killer, which to my eye (via Thoth who pointed it out) that means that they don't rove around in packs, especially since if they did then FD would have seen Fishbulb under the gate on night one as well, now wouldn't he?

vote: ages

, yes it is an irritation vote and might not be the wisest thing to do, but the amount of crap logic is just plain annoying. At this point, whether you are pro-town or not is actually secondary to my mind, logic of the sort you have produced gets towns killed, so you are as dangerous to the town as the mafia imo.

This isn't even going into the hypocricy of attacking mgia for being the ninth vote for zoneace as an attempt to disassociate himself from za, yet my 'defending him' from a quick lynch is suspicious. So what isn't suspicious, if I may ask? Don't worry rhetorical question. The plan earlier was complete junk imo, if everyone voted for one other person, then logically a mafia would vote for another mafia member, . . . and then 5 seconds before deadline unvote. That would leave one pro-town and one mafia, mafia win.

[bigbenwd]

unvote tigris

he seems innocent with that last post, usually most scum ty to keep it cool, while ownies explodecuz they cant beleive it

vote: ages

getter than the crap logic, so i'm gonna follow him on this one

(i hope this dosent come bite me in the ass, which it probably will.)

[mathcam]

Well, mostly because I fear the deadline, but also because he's kind of giving off the "Too eager to help" vibe that is oh-so-common in mafiapeople, I'll

Vote: ages

Cam

[Flying Dutchman]

<not very well thought through semi idea>

How do the mafia communicate at night? Obviously by pm, but thats not what I mean, How do they communicate in the game world? I always assumed they phoned each other, but there aren't any phones in LOTR. What if, mafia had to go to the same place at night to communicate with each other. This would make FDs role have more use.

My pet theory then is that ZONEACE, Tigris and Thoth are scum together, and were all in the same place to communicate the first night. We know ZONEACE was scum, and i've already outlined my suspicions of Tigris, but unofortunatly for me, Thoth seems squeaky clean and seems very unlikely to be scum with ZONEACE.

</not very well thought through semi idea>

thats all we got i guess, so...

vote:tigris

I don't think ages is suspicious, as he admits it's a bad idea, but he just can't think of anything else. Bigben though is a little too eager to test it in my opinion.

Vote: Bigbenwd

[mathcam]

Yeah, but Ben's always like that. Do you think he's

more

suspiciously flippant than usual? That's what you have to decide before making the vote. Didn't ben already claim anyways?

Cam

[mathcam]

Never mind. No claim from Ben. I was thinking about something else. (But the previous point still holds)

Cam

[CoolBot]

Ben also switched is vote to Ages pretty quickly after Tigris's post. And I'm always more suspicous of the person following crap logic than the person offering crap logic. Ben didn't even add anything to Ages logic.

vote: bigbenwd

[Leonidas]

Ben, claim now.

I don't like the way this is going. It's deadline minus - what, a few hours max, guys. Besides, we don't want to lynch two players simultaneously by accident, do we ?

[mathcam]

Well, we

could

lynch both if we wanted to. Improved chance of evil....but really shooting ourselves in the foot if we're wrong twice.

Cam

[Leonidas]

Yes, but will the Town really get to decide whether it lynches one player or two?

If exactly one of them is good, then scums will get

him

lynched, not the other one. :arrow: Town gets to lynch only one player.

And if both are good, then scums will be extremely pleased to maintain a delicate balance between them... :arrow: Town gets to lynch both.

Do you believe in destiny, Neo ?

[mathcam]

Well, if we collectively agree to lynch two, we can pretty much assure ourselves of lynching them both. Someone who jumps in to skew it at the last minute would certainly look scummy to me. Of course, there's not a lot of time to collectively agree about anything at this point....

Cam

[Flying Dutchman]

I don't like lynching both, I prefer lynching just Bigben.

[Thoth]

Well, to me ben is a lot more suspicious than Tigris or Ages. Maybe he's always as flippant as now, but that does not make it less suspicious to me. Next to that there's still the exchange we had on page 12 that ended like this:

toth, read the last part of cams post, there is a reason, and also, i beleive the person beforehand had a reason as well.
there, explained.

It must be me being blind then. Could you maybe quote the reason mathcam gave, because I still cannot find it.

I asked him a question. He gives an answer that's not an answer. When I ask for clarification it's just ignored (and he does not ignore a lot).
He's at least a better target than Ages or Tigris to me.
All Ages has done is spew forth some theories. Eventhough they had some holes in them I usually find it positive when someone posts his thoughts.
Against Tigris all we've got is mathcam's gut feeling. Allthough I do find that a strong argument against Tigris I do not yet feel the same.

I'll go for the one that I find most suspicious of the 3 as we've only got a few hours left before the deadline.

vote:bigbenwd

I'll be online for sure again before the deadline to change my vote/unvote should ben come out with new information or should we be at risk of lynching 2 players.

I'll add my unofficial vote count. I would appreciate if someone checks whether they have the same:

ben:3
Ages:2
Tigris:1

Several posts while I was typing (and my boss came in). I also don't like lynching both (and is both ben and Tigris or ben and Ages).

[ages]

100% Unofficial Vote Count
*************************************
1 Tigris (Mathcam)
3 ages (Tigris, bigben, Mathcam)
3 Bigben (Flying Dutchman, Coolbot, Thoth)

***************************************

My vote count disagrees with yours Thoth, probably because posts were made while you were typing. I know i'm innocent, and whether ben is or not it would be sensible to save myself so i'll

vote bigben

I'll post some arguements in a minute, I just want to get my vote in before deadline

[Thoth]

I missed mathcam's vote. I think yours is correct, except that Tigris now has no more votes.

So new still completely unofficial, but this time probably correct vote count:

bigbenwd: 4(Flying Dutchman, Coolbot, Thoth, Ages)
Ages: 3 (Tigris, bigben, Mathcam)

[ages]

Now that I know my votes in i'll post some more. First thing i'm not 100% convinced that ben is mafia, but the situation as I saw it when I just voted was that as it stood me and bigben were going to get lynched at deadline. I know i'm innocent, so whether ben is or not it makes sense to save myself. I might be around before deadline to unvote if somebody else seems suspicious.

Now some responses to Tigris:

It would also completely unbalance the game.

Would it really? It requires the town to a) think that maybe they do have to go to the same place b) Have some evidence that one of the group was scum c) The gateguard would have to reveal his or her results.

Also if I remember correctly, you were saying how there would be two entrances to an area, so to get to a particular area you didn't have to go through a particular gate. With only one gate guard there would be no way for the town to watch two entrances to an area.

There are three killing groups+. Let's assume 1 sk and two mafias. Now then, if Thoth, ZA, Fishbulb, and I were all in a mafia, the other mafia would likely have 4 as well to balance the game more properly. That would mean that out of 22 players, 9 are evil, which is highly unlikely.

I said that Thoth didn't seem at all scummy to me. Yes my idea does have holes, but the game was at a standstill and it needed something to get it going so I decided to post what I had been thinking. I agree with your analysis that 9 would be a large number of evil players, I hadn't thought of that at the time.

First, you tell him to give more information as your role received more then he initially provided.

By this stage he hadn't even given a name. I wasn't going to let him leave his claim at that, for a start its very hard to argue with a claim that has no ability and no name.

Then you proceeded to find a description of the role in Encyclopedia of Arda.

I looked in the encyclopedia, and it seemed very unlikely that Eomer would be a plain townie. I wanted to make sure that Zoneace agreed that he was the same Eomer, as I wasn't familliar with the character from the books (Its a long time since I read them).

Oh and need I really say that you didn't vote for zoneace

I'll take your word for it that I didn't vote for him. I don't like voting before i'm sure about someones guilt, and if I remember correctly, by the time I was convinced of his guilt he was lynched (timezones and holidays and all that).

especially since if they did then FD would have seen Fishbulb under the gate on night one as well, now wouldn't he?

You yourself said there was two ways into each area, but I will say it again, it was a half thought out idea that I posted to try and get the game going.

attacking mgia for being the ninth vote for zoneace as an attempt to disassociate himself from za

If I remember correctly I said that that was a possibility and that I said at the end of my post that I really didn't know what to conclude about mgia, I certainly did not conclude that he was certainly scum.

The plan earlier was complete junk imo, if everyone voted for one other person, then logically a mafia would vote for another mafia member, . . . and then 5 seconds before deadline unvote. That would leave one pro-town and one mafia, mafia win.

It wasn't a serious plan, it was a bit of fun. If I didn't make that clear in my post, I apoligise. Do you really think we would have got everyone active before the deadline for it to work anyway?

I'll repeat this again. I'll unvote big ben before the deadline if it doesn't mean that i'll get lynched or if he claims a pro town role that in my opinion is stronger and more useful to the town than mine.

[ages]

You posted while I was typing, but yes, I agree with your vote count Thoth.