Verbose Mafia 2 - Post or Perish (Game Over)

[Fiasco]

He's still joking. I'm pro-town through and through. I think No Lynch must have been the last remaining scum, but we won't know for sure until he posts the real end scene.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

2 things:
(1)The investigation immunities and multiple millers? You might as well have left out the one-shot cops then. They're nearly just as likely to do good as to do bad.
(2)It's M. Iunius Brutus and I really don't see him working together with Nero. Nero represents everything that Brutus revolted against.

Also, Fiasco, may I ask what made you kill Pooky?

[Fiasco]

...oh, alright. I was scum.

First off, this game was lots of fun. Great ending. Thanks for modding to everyone behind the Grey mask.

(1)The investigation immunities and multiple millers? You might as well have left out the one-shot cops then. They're nearly just as likely to do good as to do bad.

It's amazing how close Seol was to getting a guilty result on CA. I'll give the full details on that later, maybe.

Also, Fiasco, may I ask what made you kill Pooky?

I wanted to use my kill because I'd just been nearly lynched, and I thought I might not survive the next day.

Pooky knew Thok's restriction wasn't real. I had claimed a fake restriction (physics words) by then. I was afraid he was some sort of restriction cop. Hitting the SK was pure luck; I didn't even think there was an SK, because Kelly Chen said she was modkilled on her wiki page. (If you're reading this, Kelly, I'd be interested to know how that happened.)

[Turbovolver]

Oh man, I was horrible this game

I had fun though, wish I could've stayed longer.

Scum played very well, but I found myself suspecting Fiasco as I read along at home.

Looking back at my explanations for who was scum on day 1, I was right about Pooky and wrong about Mathcam. At least all the people I proclaimed pro-town were.

[Kelly Chen]

I just assumed. I apologize if I affected the game post-death.

No mystery now why I was targeted.

[Thok]

Ah, and I was hoping to fiddle while Mike's Fire Burns.

Congrats and thanks to all scum and other participants. Fiasco, your verbosity in this game is matched only by your verbosity in our discussions at night. LML, CA, if you read this, it was fun playing with you while you were here. Halfman, thanks for replacing in as we couldn't have finished off town without you.

Those last night scenes prove that Mith is an evil man. Keep it up, and thanks to Mith, MeMe, and Talitha for helping with modding.

Town was fairly close to winning on several occasions-lynching Fiasco day 4 or CA rather than Seol day 5 would have likely sealed a town win. (Similarly lynching me at any time would have revealed CA to have been lying about the Caesar's list). Incidentally, town would probably have drawn if it had lynched Fiasco yesterday and likely would have won if they had lynched me or Halfman yesterday.

The scum mishandled the SATAN thing day 3 (we shouldn't have had everybody attack CES for that) and we ended up having to sacrifice LML just to get some distance from him. (As a side comment, I was the only one of the scum who didn't pick up on that restriction, which seems a tad ironic.)

We also had trouble recruiting CA, as he kept failing his posting restrictions and we didn't know that was why we were failing to recruit him.

Our claims were fun-it's always neat to outclaim a doctor and then not get lynched for doing so. I had a Sigmund Freud claim in the back of my mind on receiving my role (as it fit my restriction) and I was planning on revealing my role restrictions as fake later in the game-I just didn't expect to be forced to do so early.

[the silent speaker]

...so was my role anything other than flavor?

Was

SpamWise one-shot, or did he have an investigation every night?

Also, I'm curious if my putting every letter of the alphabet into every post affected anything early on. But that's more a question for Pooky than for mith.

[Seol]

Dammit. I was pretty sure CA was scum ever since he posted this on day 1:

I'm not worried about Seol; I believe the scum will kill Seol if he's town.

But I wasn't keeping up well at that point, and the town was talking about stuff I needed to respond to. By the time I had time to sit down, it was difficult to compose an effective attack based on it, and too late for a simple raised eyebrow post. I shouldn't have signed up for this game, I was on a downward turn in my playing and the

last

thing I needed was once-every-24-hour requirements. Lured in by an invite from Mith, too.

When I get back into playing (and I'm starting to get that itch again, thanks to the ethics threads ), I'll be doubly verbose.

But, I figured that being one-shot meant my results had to be accurate. Bad mistake.

[Mackay]

[spectator comment]

I've been keeping up with this thread since around about the day LoudmouthLee was lynched. I just wanted to say... what an incredible read! (Though admittedly I never got around to reading the earlier parts, there was just so much of it! ) I wish I'd not hassled mith with questions about the setup all game, I would have absolutely loved to replace CA.

You all played marvellously. Congratulations to the scum!

And mith (and Tali and MeMe), that was enthralling. Well done. =)

[/sc]

[mikeburnfire]

I knew VitaminR was clean. >_>

[mikeburnfire]

By the way, congrats to Commodore for making us say all that crap just so he can be recruited. Also, thanks to "Mr. Grey" for making a refrence to Clue.

[SpamWise]

Damnit! I'm sorry town, I played pretty poorly. Well played scum, it was your great claims that won it for you. I do believe that I am a better player having played this game, not something I could say about many games.

[petroleumjelly]

Oh, that makes me want to cry.

What hurts the most is that I was so right for so much of the game, but still turned out in the end to do the exact wrong things. I suspected Thok, LML,

and

Fiasco very early in the game, but all of them managed to talk themselves out of their situations, with excellent claims and delaying tactics. Scum messed with my mind

a lot

, and after seeing the fully revealed roles, lots of things make much more sense. Commodore Amazing was very clever with his claim, and even though I thought his role was

completely bogus

, it was only that stupid innocent investigation given by Seol that kept me off his back.

I am seriously depressed right now, and I am not joking in the least. However, scum deserved this win 100%, and although I feel a bit (okay, a lot) of bitterness at the moment, I am very happy I was accepted into this game, and I thank all the players who also participated.

[petroleumjelly]

Okay, sorry for double posting, but I

cannot go to sleep

because I cannot help thinking about how close this game could have been turned around.

Biggest factors of this game:

1.) Commodore Amazing's "Bad Hanging List". My immediate reaction was, "well that's nice, we should hang you to verify your list", and I know others must have had this same thought. As it happened, the day I was getting ready to seriously suggest the idea, Seol claimed an innocent investigation on Commodore Amazing with a 1-Shot investigation. I could simply see no way a 1-Shot investigation would be faulty, and so allowed CA/Halfman to skate through the rest of the game, even though I still tried to stay away from narrowing down my sights to his list. His additional abilities of "casting roles" which were never cast and "pursuing somebody as a bear" were not even necessary to make this a FPWLSOOIA.

Lesson: When you see a flying-pumpkin-with-lasers-shooting-out-of-its-ass roleclaim, just lynch them, regardless of claimed investigations, especially if verifying the role is just as good for the town as if that person were scum.

2.) Me (yes me) unvoting Fiasco when he came

so close

to being lynched on Day Four. His announcement of Scum Popes somehow struck a chord in my head, and warped my thinking for the

rest of the frickin' game

. The night-talk of the Masonry can confirm this. I can't believe I let him live after failing to give his "results" for so many days on end.

Lesson A: When somebody makes a promise and does not fulfill that promise lynch them, regardless of excuses,

especially

if you are not in lynch or lose and can afford to do so.
Lesson B: When somebody is vague on their role description and refuses to clarify (i.e. what type of results given), lynch them.
Lesson C: Do not allow one theory of the game (Scumpopes) to dominate all other just as plausible theories, especially when such information is contingent on simply one player.

3.) Thok claiming a Doctor role after Werebear had already claimed a Doctor role. This is so simple its disgusting. The fact that we never forced Thok to clarify on what words he could use was a mistake (even though we did ask him, although he did not respond).

Lesson A: When you practically know there are not going to be two of a given role (Doctors in this case), if one turns up town, the other is probably scum.
Lesson B: When somebody is caught attempting a fake claim (or fake restriction, in this case), lynch them.

4.) The constant bickering between the Masonry and Werebear. This one is pretty self-explanatory. The scum really lucked out how this relationship festered as the game progressed. By the time Werebear was lynched, I was pretty sure he was town, but I was simply so

frustrated

that I was in the mindset of "he deserves to be lynched anyways".

Lesson: Do not allow emotions to get in the way of logical decisions.

Overall, this game will probably force me into chewing nails (the iron kind) more often, because I am going to be much less kind to role-claims I do not like. I will probably try to change my play-style accordingly to become a much more callous player, as opposed to continually giving players the benefit of the doubt.

[DrippingGoofball]

Commodore Amazing had me fooled through and through. Had I been in the game, I might have joined werebear with his anti-satanic mason sentiments! So maybe it was a good thing Pooky sent me on my merry way to my own burial.

I don't know... do I?

/in Verbose Mafia III

[Fiasco]

I have some other comments that I may get to later, but first, let me present to you the Saga of how we Didn't Recruit Commodore Amazing:

your group can make the Traitor a full Mafia member (with the ability to kill) by saying "Et tu, PLAYERNAME"

In order for you to join the Mafia, one of the Mafia members must say "Et tu, XXXX", during the day.

We shouldn't recruit the spy yet. You definitely shouldn't recruit the spy- you're the only one of us not to drink scotch yet. I think the plan should be that we should only recruit the spy is we are near a lynch or if somebody claims that role late game.

In fact, mathcam knew all of these party-goers, though he was unsure how many knew him.

"In fact, mathcam knew all of these party-goers, though he was unsure how many knew him."

I think mathcam is our traitor! Let's be careful in recruiting him, though.

I'm not convinced that mathcam is our traitor yet.

I'm convinced that mathcam is either our traitor, or trying to make us believe he's our traitor. The comment that "he knows everyone, but he's not sure everyone knows him" can't be a coincidence; compare with the PM.

I have the mod's permission to recruit our traitor with something like "Consider the set TU, mathcam, consisting of all people mentioned by Turbovolver on day U.". The whole "et tu" thing is case-insensitive.

I would like DrippingGoofball and Fiasco to recite:

"I am gone forever." Exit, pursued by Commodore Amazing.
"Et tu, Brute? Then fall, Commodore Amazing!"

Commodore Amazing seems to be our traitor, but reciting his play wouldn't actually recruit him, because the "et tu" line is slightly wrong.

I still refuse to believe mathcam's comment was a coincidence, so maybe he's the traitor for another mafia.

Do you think it's a good idea for me to recruit Com Am tomorrow with something along the lines of: "I'm not willing to go along with your stuff about more art and bad marriages and et tu, Commodore Amazing, because blah blah", buried in a long paragraph?

I don't think we need to recruit CA tomorrow unless we have to.

There are more important things to address today than whether or not to lynch DrippingGoofball and how many nominations VitaminR will get. Like auditions. And this time, I mean it. I'd really like everyone to recite these lines.

Oh, and, (sigh) why not:

"I am gone forever." Exit, pursued by Commodore Amazing.
"Et tu, Brute? Then fall, Commodore Amazing!"

(recruit failed due to "et tu, playername" format)

Does anyone have anything against me using my NK tonight? My first feeling is CA.

Any reason for the CA nightkill? I still think it's likely that he's the traitor, athough it could be mathcam instead.

I'm afraid that CA is Julius Ceasar, looking to find Brutus.

I may be a good start CA? Et tu, Commodore Amazing? You have seemingly stabbed be in the back.

(this one would have worked, but CA failed his restriction that day)

Et, tu Cogito Ergo Sum?
Et, tu Commodore Amazing?
(...)
Et, tu Werebear?

(failed due to both the comma and CA's restriction)

I think you placed the comma wrong.

Apparently, LML was right about Com Am NOT being our traitor.

I think what happened instead is that the person who was cast as Caesar by Com Am is our traitor. I think it may be CES, because he pushed the "test LML and keep him alive one more day" theory and because he corrected LML's punctuation. (But that didn't work.)

Curious. Mr. Grey must be careful about the placement of the comma. We should doublecheck that LML's comments to CA in post 548 didn't recruit him; if so we could consider killing CA today to verify his info (and to keep him from revealling the number of Caesars in the game).

The four roles cast by CA correspond to each of his quotes; for example, Antigonus was pursued by a bear. I think that means for each of the roles, he chose someone who said the corresponding line in the audition. He also said none were mathcam or SpamWise. That would reduce our list of possible Caesars to:

DrippingGoofball
Pooky
Seol
Tamuz
VitaminR
Werebear

Interesting, no? Specifically CES isn't among these. VitaminR and Werebear seem likely candidates to me.

"Society is part of the absurdity of consciousness. Popity popity pope. Et tu, Fernando Poo? Et tu, Seol, Kelly Chen? Scary and perplexing," says LoudmouthLee.
(...)
in More Et Tu, Werebear, With Less Art, and indeed even in Et Tu, VitaminR? Then Prevent a Bad Marriage, MikeBurnFire

(this was the purpose of that postmodern post; all recruits failed, of course, due to targeting the wrong people)

On the traitor: apparently it's not Julius Caesar. Apparently it's also not Seol, VitaminR or Werebear (Grey would have told us by now). The ones we haven't tried and who are still alive are: Cogito Ergo Sum, DrippingGoofball, MikeBurnFire, PetroleumJelly, Pooky, SpamWise, Tamuz, TSS. I don't see how it could be either CES or MBF. I don't see how it could be Pooky, since he outed your fake restriction. Goofball has nameclaimed Ingersoll and hasn't behaved like our traitor. That leaves PJ, Spam, Tamuz, and TSS.

I don't think it'll hurt much to do a postmodern gibberish post again, but with different names. There are only four serious possibilities left, anyway. If I'm really about to die, I'll do the complete et tu post anyway.

I'm really confused about who the traitor is.

EDIT: SpamWise is Demosthenes, so he's probably not the traitor.

(here, Seol investigated CA, who had not been recruited and therefore came up innocent)

et tu, commodore? et tu, tamuz? et tu, seol? et tu, scooby doo?

(I was convinced CA wasn't the traitor; saying "et tu, commodore" was just intended as noise; I think it'd have worked if I said "et tu, commodore amazing".)

No successful Tamuz recruit message yet. That would mean it's SpamWise or TSS. Now I'm really confused.

Any idea what is up with caesars? There's no way I shouldn't be counted as one; maybe it's giving us information on where our traitor is?

I'm seriously tempted to suggest that you say "Et tu, PLAYERNAME" tomorrow.

Maybe LML's CA recruit failed because he'd broken the rules earlier? Probably not.

("he" referred to LML here, so I was still wrong)

Disturbing thought: what if "my dear" is to them what "et tu" is to us?

Interesting early PJ quote:

Quote:
And just what are you looking at, Pooky my dear? I believe there is somebody looking for you, and yet you have not bothered to look for them." Her eyes of concern turned to eyes of suspicion. "Might it be you already knew who would be attending this party?"

(then there was the following brilliant message from CA: )

@Thok - I have no new information. Any plans? Why were you thinking about claiming? I totally respect the fake posting restrictions, if that's what this is about.

I'm trying to figure out how Lee knew that he had been cast as Caesar, or if that was just a lucky guess. It seems like a pro-town thing to help confirm me like that. For a while, I was very convinced he and I were on the same team.

Or maybe it's just that I feel bad for lynching him. That whole "Et tu, Commodore Amazing" line was pretty awesome. I appreciate the drama from a guy on his way down. I have to remind myself in the afterlife to thank scumbag Lee for not whining on his way to the grave, like I would have done. Scumbags definitely need to say more awesome things as they get lynched. Or just whenever.

I also remember that I thought DrippingGoofball was sending me signals to show that she had received the role the day after I assigned it to her. I'm going to try to find those. Although I don't know why she would have said she didn't know she was cast. Meh.

If we're abandoning the NAGH list, I think we should be looking at either Werebear or one of the masons. I feel that if any ONE of the masons are scum, it's either mikeburnfire or petroleumjelly. PJ has the weirdest name of the three, and mikeburnfire has been saying all sorts of funky stuff.

I'd like to nominate Fiasco anyway. I really think that posting restriction was a little too convenient, and if there were a time for the scum to give it to one of their own, that was it. I want some explanation of some of that garbage from yesterday. Or he could at least say something awesome.

That's right, Fiasco. It's me. I'm coming for you. You know you want a piece of Commodore Amazing. Just say it and you'll get it, punk.

Nominate: Fiasco

Commodore, this is not helpful.

I AM ANGRY! DEATH TO THE SCUM!

I think we should pick between Werebear and mikeburnfire today. And let VitaminR die. We'll probably need a claim from Werebear before the end of the day. Any idea on when is the best time for that? I'd say the sooner the better.

I'll say this to the scum: you're not paying enough attention to me. If you haven't noticed, I'm confirmed. And I'm not messing around anymore. Heed my words and know that Lee made a mistake. And you're making a mistake by not listening to me and daring to leave me just sitting around. I'm not just some chump who's going to help you lynch the wrong guy. No, no, no. I'm Commodore Amazing. How do you like that?

Fiasco - It's true that I did miss some of your defense, but don't you dare call my words "not helpful." Please reread my post; I believe I was very clear in what I asked from you. And there's no need to get so defensive with me.

We're lynching Werebear or mikeburnfire today, right?

Un-nominate: Fiasco, Nominate: Werebear, mikeburnfire

I know how you feel mikeburnfire. I feel like I should be worried about our claimed Shakespear (Shakespeare?) and his desire to have us say mysterious things like "Less Commodore Amazing, with more art" or "Et tu, Commodore Amazing". But then I also know that Seol, who we know to be Perry Mason, has proclaimed CA to be innocent.

(that was where the recruit actually happened; I missed it at first, then I saw CA's earlier request to reread)

On to Commodore Amazing. I'm sorry, I really am, but I don't see what you're asking of me that hasn't already been addressed in today's posts. I've just seen a general request to clarify what I said yesterday. I do apologize for calling you "not helpful"; I suppose we all have our inattentive moments at times.

So there may have been even more fumbling around than you thought.

[mikeburnfire]

Why did you guys keep missing/forfeiting your kills?

[Thok]

Why did you guys keep missing/forfeiting your kills?

We only had 4 one shots (one for each of us) and we were holding back our kills until they gave us a forced win/draw.

LML never used his kill because he got killed before he could use it. Fiasco used his kill on Pooky out of necessity. My kill and CA/halfman's kill were used on the last night. We would have considered killing two people night 8 (to reduce down to 6 people) and taken the likely draw if CA hadn't yet again failed his posting requirement. (To be fair, he was busy trying to get to Africa at the time). We thought about having just me kill that night, but decided against it to keep up the confusion.

[Turbovolver]

Didn't it say there were 4 one-shot abilities on top of the mafia kill?

Also big at LML for claiming I was speaking to him from the dead.

[Thok]

Didn't it say there were 4 one-shot abilities on top of the mafia kill?

Also big at LML for claiming I was speaking to him from the dead.

If you read the PM carefully, the mafia didn't have a nightly kill, just the one shots.

(We made this mistake when we read our PM's the first time also).

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

A slight miscalculation on that last night not using my 1 shot selfprotect.

I had somewhat expected to be protected as an information role if a mafia existed and tried to kill me(by that point I was somewhat skeptical of a mafia existing since I was the only one killing at night)

Much fistshaking towards da werebear for being lousy and not protecting probly the only effective information role in da game.(boo!)

And a really big big fistshake at mith for the game construction, due to my name having the last name Brown and the color names in the last names of the moderator, I thought it was a game full of real people with colors in their last names, thus I assembled a list via wikipedia's last name index of all people who had colors for last names who were still alive that was like 7 pages long and was prepping for the game based on that, I think I was going to claim to be this famous romantic jazz playa or something.

Then the first roleclaim of the game happens to be DGB's Robert Green Ingersoll! A color middle name! Back to the drawing board for pooks as he starts getting all the color middle names together.

Then our first lynch just happens to be Malcolm X, otherwise known as Detroit RED! This pretty much convinces Pooks that he's dealing with a buncha colors as he begins to look up first names/middle names/nicknames to go with his last name color list.

This proceeds over night1 when Pooks uses Kelly's restriction to kill her. When she's revealed as some1 who has nothing to do with a color, Pooks pretty upset at Mith, it's quite annoying when the only other 2 names in the game that have clear links to color happen to get lynched/claimed on day 1 and make Pooks look up his humongous list(what r the chances of the only 2 people out of the whole game with colors getting run up right?)

Much congrats to the scum for winning, it probably would've been pretty devastating to keep me alive. I'm actually quite surprised the Galileo claim carried thru, I didn't think old Gal was very famous for his orating abilities .

[Tamuz]

le sigh


nuetral is the shaft.

[Fiasco]

Pooky: he did write Dialogues and stuff. At the beginning of D3, I was still planning to hide the anagrams and claim Feynman (the Lecturer).

Tamuz: your win condition did seem very hard to achieve. Did you have any claims in mind when we lynched you?

PJ: I do still agree with most of what I said in-game; the promises I made were (from D5 on) contingent on scum dying.

Thok: I'm fairly sure we'd also have won if my lynch had gone through today. I planned to do an evil defeated villain speech in that case about how the delayed kills would soon start setting in (so people wouldn't want to no-lynch). The town didn't seem enthusiastic about no-lynching at that point, so I think a SpamWise lynch would have been likely the next day.

It's true what Thok says about night verbosity, I guess; I bombarded my fellow scum with a lot of insane theories. Maybe I'll dig up some examples later. This makes HalfMan's replacing even more impressive: not only did he have to read the whole thread, he had to read all of my drivel too.

[Fiasco]

Every game should have some bloopers at the end:

As far as I can tell ALL players so far (including the three of us) have used the letter combination "le" in each of their posts, often in a hinting sort of way. "la", "li", "lo", "ly" and "lu" too, to some extent: tequila, encephalitic, reflux, etc etc. This can't be a coincidence, and I recommend obeying this in all future posts! This may be a life or death thing!

Pooky uses numbers like "9" in his posts. Petroleumjelly uses numbers like "nine" in his posts. I think they're masons of some kind together.

I've been thinking: mathcam seems to have double "t"s as his post restriction in the same way that LML has double "p"s. Cogito has a word with an "a" and a "y" (in that order) in it in each post. Turns out that Ay was an influential pharaoh: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ay

So maybe Cogito is Ay and Mathcam is Tutankhamun, and they're both in the Egyptian mafia.

I still would like to use my NK tonight, but on a sure lynch tomorrow (CES is going down.) I wouldn't want to kill him.

Frankly, I think we're screwed.

[petroleumjelly]

You know, there were a lot of things that made this game difficult for the town: although I applaud the Mods for varying up the normal style of games, these all were thorns in my sides:

1.) The Deadlines. Oh how I hate deadlines.
2.) The nature of the deadlines and lynching requirements (mainly, even if a lynch is reached before the deadline, the lynch does not go through).
3.) Not allowing quoting (quote tags) was huge (at least for me). It makes it that much more difficult to make arguments about what players have said, since we were not even allowed to reference post numbers.
4.) No-Reveal. I was convinced for over a week that LML was actually town even though he clearly lied about his role. I eventually gave up looking at voting patterns because I thought it was useless since I never knew who was scum after we had lynched them.
5.) Werebear.