New York 146 Zach's Insane Mafia World (OVER)

[havingfitz]

I'm more interested in what Alice's track revealed.

I'm also about ready to bail on the whole sk theory. I've never played in a game with a red herring for a PR before.

@Ghostlin....were you still neighbors with Kamrun and if so...do you know who he kept last night?

[Nobody Special]

If I were to say something along the lines of "Alice is not necessarily conftown" -- how would that be received?

[Ghostlin]

@Ghostlin....were you still neighbors with Kamrun and if so...do you know who he kept last night?

Yes, and I'd have to doublecheck to see if Kamrun left a target in our QT, but I think not.

[DeasVail]

If I were to say something along the lines of "Alice is not necessarily conftown" -- how would that be received?

not all that badly

but I still think she's town.

[Ghostlin]

If I were to say something along the lines of "Alice is not necessarily conftown" -- how would that be received?

Poorly without sufficent reasoning. Is this sweeping statement without justification time?

[havingfitz]

After jason flipped scum...I would find it hard to rationalize Alice not being conftown. But I'm willing to listen.

Also, redFF's protect last night might be better revealed prior to Alice's track.

[Nobody Special]

It's nothing I can put my finger on right this second, and I'd have to read Alice & jason in iso together, but I could see her actions as very hard bussing.

I'll look into this later. I'd like to see night results first, though.

[Ghostlin]

It's nothing I can put my finger on right this second, and I'd have to read Alice & jason in iso together, but I could see her actions as very hard bussing.

I'll look into this later. I'd like to see night results first, though.

There's also the issue that without Vanilla Cop, where your mileage will vary, that would put all the power roles under scum.

[Ghostlin]

*All the investigation power roles, rather.

[DarthYoshi]

DY, who did you investigate, and what was the result?

DeasVail, for reasons that should be obvious.

Again, not a serial killer.

Srsly, I really do think my role is a red herring. We'd have had a two-flip by now.

Jason's flip doesn't exonerate DV to me.

As an aside, is anyone else surprised that MOI is still alive? I know it's a weak argument, but really, there are a bare handful of players for whom being alive this long in a game would be any sort of a scumtell, but he's in that bare handful. I mean, for fuck's sake, his title is "...was killed N1."

[DeasVail]

Jason's flip doesn't exonerate DV to me.

And I still think you're scum too.

[Alicewondering]

It's nothing I can put my finger on right this second, and I'd have to read Alice & jason in iso together, but I could see her actions as very hard bussing.

I'll look into this later. I'd like to see night results first, though.

Damn, I must be an awesome busser for suggesting Jason lynch from D2 and accusing IAI D1.

NS, do you believe I am tracker? If so, it doesn't really make sense that scum has tracker and watcher...

I actually tracked DY, as I was getting a bit nervous over not having 2 kills, and he did indeed visit DV. So he's telling the truth about that. Hmm. I really would have liked to know Kamrun's JK target. It might have even been DV? Either way, there is still a possibility that DV/DY could be scum.

DY, I was not surprised by MOI not being dead, especially when there are a couple PRs that would be easier targets.

[Alicewondering]

Also, Zach, any word on Snake's whereabouts?

[DarthYoshi]

It's nothing I can put my finger on right this second, and I'd have to read Alice & jason in iso together, but I could see her actions as very hard bussing.

I'll look into this later. I'd like to see night results first, though.

Damn, I must be an awesome busser for suggesting Jason lynch from D2 and accusing IAI D1.

NS, do you believe I am tracker? If so, it doesn't really make sense that scum has tracker and watcher...

I actually tracked DY, as I was getting a bit nervous over not having 2 kills, and he did indeed visit DV. So he's telling the truth about that. Hmm. I really would have liked to know Kamrun's JK target. It might have even been DV? Either way, there is still a possibility that DV/DY could be scum.

DY, I was not surprised by MOI not being dead, especially when there are a couple PRs that would be easier targets.

So you can confirm I visited DV, and he's still alive (which means me being SK is almost impossible--DV would have had to be protected, because if I were jailed, you would have gotten a different result by tracking me), AND we've already had a maf investigative role flipped. Given those circumstances, how exactly would FBI agent be a fakeclaim coming from scum, be it maf or SK?

@DV: This question goes for you too. If you don't think Alice's result clears me as town, I want to know why.

[Alicewondering]

I don't think you got jailed at all. I think that it's possible DV was protected by a JK. Sorry it's so confusing with your names.

If you were scum, you would not be an investigative role. You would be plain goon sent in for a kill. You overthought this. FBI agent could be a red herring on scum's part to make it seem like there was indeed a SK, which would potentially mislead town. That, combined with IAI's farewell letter makes me think that there is no SK.

[DeasVail]

Oh, that actually changes things.

I am unlikely to have been targeted for a kill.

Possibilities:

DY is a mafia rolecop.

...

Not much else I can think of really.

Although if he is scum, he's likely to be a variant role. Can anyone think of any possiblities?

I may have to change my read.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'll have more time in the morning - I would really like to hear redFF's actions.

@Deas

- only other obvious style role is Roleblocker / Framer alt.

[Nobody Special]

Actually, Alice, it DID occur to me that you could be faking Tracker. I do have to go back and read to see if that holds any water at all (which reading won't happen for a couple RL days).

DY, you're probably town.

Alice, I just have a gut feel that you're not town. Could be confirmation bias on my part.

Also, MoI is almost totally scum by dint of still being alive. If there's four mafia, no SK (meaning DY is in fact a RH), then it could be Alice + MoI.

Note to self: double-iso Alice + MoI.

I'm not going to declare a V/LA; but work it crazybusy through the weekend; I can keep up, but in-depth past re-reading will have to wait till at least Tuesday.

[Zachrulez]

Also, Zach, any word on Snake's whereabouts?

He picked up the prod I sent and responded via PM during night, so he's still in the game.

[redFF]

Guarded kamrun, guess i was blocked -___________-

[Alicewondering]

Actually, Alice, it DID occur to me that you could be faking Tracker. I do have to go back and read to see if that holds any water at all (which reading won't happen for a couple RL days).

So, uh, I outed Jason and pushed his lynch for funsies, and I tracked Jon/Thor accurately all while faking it? Hmmm. I don't even understand where this idea comes from =_____=

Also, MoI is almost totally scum by dint of still being alive. If there's four mafia, no SK (meaning DY is in fact a RH), then it could be Alice MoI.

I think this reasoning is wrong again! Why NK someone as good as VT when there are PRs to kill?

Also, MOI, weren't you weak doc? You targeted me on N2, which means I'm not scum if you accept MOI-town premise. Who did you target on N1?

Hmm... interesting. I could see a RedFF/DY team right now. I think that for 18 players, 4 scum is fairly likely.

Also, for Jon's sake, my suspicion from DY stems also from a couple prior events
- really, really weak breadcrumb for FBI
- a post that assumed the existence of 4 mafia, which I thought was a slip. In retrospect, it seems to be even more incriminating, given that an FBI agent would have suspected a multiball situation with 3 maf and 1 SK, rather than 4 mafia......

VOTE: DarthYoshi

[DarthYoshi]

Actually, Alice, it DID occur to me that you could be faking Tracker. I do have to go back and read to see if that holds any water at all (which reading won't happen for a couple RL days).

So, uh, I outed Jason and pushed his lynch for funsies, and I tracked Jon/Thor accurately all while faking it? Hmmm. I don't even understand where this idea comes from =_____=

Also, MoI is almost totally scum by dint of still being alive. If there's four mafia, no SK (meaning DY is in fact a RH), then it could be Alice MoI.

I think this reasoning is wrong again! Why NK someone as good as VT when there are PRs to kill?

Also, MOI, weren't you weak doc? You targeted me on N2, which means I'm not scum if you accept MOI-town premise. Who did you target on N1?

Hmm... interesting. I could see a RedFF/DY team right now. I think that for 18 players, 4 scum is fairly likely.

Also, for Jon's sake, my suspicion from DY stems also from a couple prior events
- really, really weak breadcrumb for FBI
- a post that assumed the existence of 4 mafia, which I thought was a slip. In retrospect, it seems to be even more incriminating, given that an FBI agent would have suspected a multiball situation with 3 maf and 1 SK, rather than 4 mafia......

VOTE: DarthYoshi

Oh my G-d. This post is full of all sorts of fail, it is staggering. Yes, Alice is still town, but holy fuck, this post is horrendously thought-out (or just not thought out at all).

Okay. First, your reasoning for MOI being alive is "hey, why kill a VT when you could kill a PR?"

Then, IN THE VERY NEXT PARAGRAPH, YOU SAY, "HEY, MOI, WEREN'T YOU A PR????"

So, let's try again: Why would MOI as an outed PR still be alive on DAY FREAKING FIVE?

Second, you're suspecting me for thinking that four mafia exist. Fine.

IN THIS POST, YOU SAY THAT YOU THINK FOUR MAFIA EXIST.

But more to the point, a 13:4:1 setup with 18 players is actually way more likely, IMO, than 14:3:1--scum are too underpowered in the latter scenario, especially when at least one of them is a goon, and especially since including a second killing anti-town faction generally weakens the mafia in a typical setup. With or without an SK, 4 mafia is kinda obvious.

As for the crumb...I don't know what to tell ya. I got NKed in previous games for making my PR crumbs too obvious, so I went the other direction here.

And if that is why you're voting me, that is a terrible vote, especially coming from you and your result on me. You and DV are having to jump through all sorts of hoops to make me-as-scum work in your warped minds..."He's a rolecop!" "DV was jailed!" How about...DY is actually who he says he is??? DV I think may be blowing smoke because he's scummy, but you...you should be able to do better than this.

Ugh.

[Alicewondering]

Hey, bro, do you know what MOI claimed? 2-shot doctor who has used his ability twice. He is effectively a VT. Maybe you should have paid closer attention to the thread.

I think it's just 14:4. No SK. You telling the truth about your target means nothing. You know there is a tracker in the game, so there isn't motivation to lie. But your post is strangely angry. Hmm.

[Alicewondering]

EBWODP: *and scummy AtE...

All aboard the DY wagon, guys.

[DeasVail]

Alice, what do you think DY's role is?

My thoughts on DY:

I really thought he was scummy pre-crash, and his scumread of me also makes me think he is scum. I don't think he would have it as town, and I really doubt he'd be so consistent with it. He's familiar with my meta and I'd expect him not to be completely wrong about me. He even says "the way DV is acting, I am so very, very down for giving him rope"- This comes after my fakeclaim comment and I think town-DY would consider me more likely town after my response to Jason's claim rather than more likely scum. He also doesn't consider my arguments.

I found Jon scummy the previous day. What do the rest of you think of him?

I don't like Havingfitz very much and he voted Jason, while presenting it as very logical, when I think considering Jason's play post-crash, and also my arguments about how I couldn't have performed the kill, Jason should have been the logical choice.

I don't like Ghostlin's vote on me either, but 93 reads as townish. He also seems too eager to distance from and hammer Jason despite his vote on me. If you preferred me as a lynch why didn't you try harder to get me lynched instead of changing as soon as a Jason-lynch looked likely?

Does anyone think that NS is appearing too helpful to be town?