Trouble in Minas Tirith! Game over!

[Corsato]

Bah, no lynches are not a good thing, but neither is bandwagoning every single townie and forcing them into the open.

[mathcam]

Has mafia ever tried to push a no lynch? I'd like to see a couple of examples from those people who bring this up

every

single time.

Cam

[CoolBot]

I can't ever remember a maf pushing a no lynch, but it's in no one's interest except the mafia at this point. If we don't pressure them with the threat of a lynch, then we are effectivly hoping our cops get really lucky.

[mathcam]

My point is that you can feel that pushing a no lynch only benefits the mafia without voting for whomever suggested. In some cases, I might be

less[/]i suspicious of someone who boldly proposes a plan that I think to be pro-mafia, simply because I don't think a mafia would present it. So while I feel your thoughts are in the right place, I don't think your vote is.

Cam

[CoolBot]

I take your point, mathcam. As I stated in the post I voted ages, I'm voting on principle. No lynch's are bad in the early game, so I discourage it by voting the propoent. As long as no one is behaving scummy, I don't think it's that bad of an idea to vote a no lyncher.

[Dragon Slayer]

Well, after other suspicions on ages and his behavior, as well as his push for no lynch (bad idea) I'll

Vote ages

.

[bigbenwd]

I was suggesting a no lynch, because all we are managing to do at the moment is force what are apparently strong pro town roles into the open. We try bandwagon after bandwagon, but all we seem to get at the end is a forced claim by a roel that we would seem to not want to lose.

that just looks pretty darn scummy

vote:ages

[ages]

bigbenwd - care to explain why that looks "pretty darn scummy"?

To me no lynch still seems to be the best plan, I mean (apart from bandwagonning me which you wouldn't have done had I not voted no lynch) what do you think the town should do? This day can't last forever!

[bigbenwd]

I can't put my finger on it exactly, but to me, that looked like you didn't want to get bandwaggoned and make up that role we dont want to lose.

[ages]

and make up that role we dont want to lose

Do we want to pull all our investigative roles into the open so that the mafia can pick them off? Do we want to pull all our docs out into the open so the mafia can pick them off? Thats all this bandwagonning seems to be doing!

[Phoebus]

Exactly...so we gotta start going forward somewhere don't we?
So...any reason why not you?

(I'm still not very happy at the idea of Denethor as cop ) But then you seem prime candidate for committing the cardinal sin of mafia...

[mathcam]

So...any reason why not you?

Here's one. What if ages is a doc? Or a cop? Or any other useful role that we're bandwagonning into the open not because we find ages very suspicious, but because we don't know what else to do.

Cam

[Phoebus]

Here's one. What if ages is a doc? Or a cop? Or any other useful role that we're bandwagonning into the open not because we find ages very suspicious, but because we don't know what else to do.

Right. But who

is

suspicious then? We gotta start somewhere...
Wanna go after ben for being a

possibly

flaky/dangerous cop?
A random pick of Macros' is sure as hell not going to help.

[mathcam]

And this is essentially ages' point. If bandwagonning random people is bad, and no one is suspicious, then no lynch is a viable option.

Cam

[Phoebus]

There must have been a reason why Macros did not allow it.
Maybe not.

Frankly...I'd probably be all for a no lynch but then everyone gasps in horror and points fingers.
Though because of that...no one

usually

would and scum most certainly would not.
But what about pulling a double bluff?

[mathcam]

Frankly...I'd probably be all for a no lynch but then everyone gasps in horror and points fingers.

So your solution was this was to gasp in horror and point fingers at the person who suggested no lynch? I don't mean to pick on you, Phoebus, it's just that this has become a pet peeve of mine. No lynch is often a viable option, and too often whoever suggests it gets bandwaggoned even though most people realize that its a viable option.

I will post again very soon with a list of the people I find most suspicious.

Cam

[Phoebus]

Don't worry Cam...it does not seem like picking on me (atleast to me)
My solution was not to gasp in horror (if I'd have voted then you could say that)
I'm just trying to stir up discussion or we will be going nowhere....

Personally I haven't a clue. My scum catching skills are badly off. You could call them non existent
I've been Mafia in all (I think) of my finished games and I'm overly paranoid about protecting myself.

([aside]And GF too...I'm always incharge[/aside])

8)
This is a fantastic feeling of freedom only to remain clueless.
Atleast as scum...you have your cohorts to thrash matters out with.


I've already said what I think is uncomfortable and that is...Denethor being a cop.

I'll wait for your thoughts though...

[mathcam]

Well, I've compiled a list of people I think are very probably innocent, but I think I'll keep that to myself. The only people I found anything worth mentioning in the suspicious department are Tigris and, ironically enough, ages. I still feel Tigris is more suspicious than most, but ages already has some votes on him, so

Vote: Ages

Cam

[mathcam]

Ah, what the heck: In my almost certainly wrong expert mafia opinion, I guess that the vast majority of the remaining evil lies within:

Ages

, CoolBot, Dragon Slayer, MGIA, Scalebane,

Tigris

, and Untrod Tripod.

Everyone else has either claimed something believable or posted something that convinced me of their innocence. I'll be interested in seeing how accurate this is at the end of the game. (i.e. who cleverly posted something to lead me astray). Italics means that they're actually suspicious to me, and not just neutral.

Who of these is lurking as well? Maybe Scalebane? Everyone else seems to be pretty active, I think.

*looks forward to the return of the "view all posts" option*

Cam

[ages]

What

really

gets me is that earlier on in the day, certain players suggested no lynch, yet nobody said that it was suspicious.

I quote from Phoebus earlier in the day:

I'd suggest a no lynch at this time too with everyone being so undecided.

Why, If my vote for a no lynch is so suspicious, wasn't Phoebus suspicious when he suggested a no lynch earlier in the day?

I quote from Flyign Dutchman, again earlier in the day:

The only way to get a No Lynch is to have nobody voting at the deadline.....

Unvote if/who I was voting

This shows at this time Flying Dutchman wanted to end the day on a no lynch, and in my opinion, and I'm sure most of you would agree, he's the most confirmed innocent that we have got. So wanting a no lynch isn't necessarily mafia behaviour!

Earlier on in the day mathcam states as well as I can, the advantages of a no lynch:

Well, without any strong leads, we could consider not lynching. Are we really going to gain anything by bandwagonning someone until they role claim? I would think that because of the intricacies in the game (namely, that it seems like there were several very new and ocmplicated roles), we might be better off to let our pro-town roles do their jobs for another night. I realize we'll wake up in the morning with another dead or two, but note that this is better than waking up with another dead or two and having lynched a townie the day before.

When I voted for a no lynch, I did express concerns that it may not be in our favor to do so:

It seems like we would want it, but then I wonder if Macros witheld the option from us for our benefit. maybe theres things we don't know that mean we have to kill tonight?

And finally Corsato makes the same point that I am trying to:

Bah, no lynches are not a good thing, but neither is bandwagoning every single townie and forcing them into the open.

We can't keep revealing to the mafia strong pro town roles. I still stand by my statement that the correct thing for the town to do is to tend this day with a no lynch, as dragging out this day with bandwagons left, right and center is harming only ourselves.

[Tigris]

Personally, I agree with ages,

vote: no lynch

, if this earns me a few votes or a lynch, fine whatever, I would prefer to actually play the game as I think it should be played as opposed to following a bandwagon, which have been hurting the town imo. The only saving grace that I see for the bandwagons is that most of them stop when they receive a name, so the mafia doesn't get too much information. Furthermore, out of 6 dead, 3 are scum, so why potentially waste that advantage by bandwagoning and lynching pro-town roles?

fos: mathcam

, no one else that suggested no lynch as a viable option voted for ages. Plus there is an amount of omgus, just because I am sick of hearing him say I am suspicious, but giving me nothing to defend against.

[Mr_Gnome_It_All]

Well, I don't like the idea of No Lynch. Does anyone have any thoughts on how many scum are left? I'm not sure but from what others have said it would seem like 2 Men from Khand and 1 more Haradrim, plus the SK? So 4/16 left are probably scum? If that's the case we have at least 2 days to find at least one scum, provided there are still three kiling groups out there. More if any of them kill each other at night (wouldn't that be nice).

I was just trying to figure out how good each sides chances are right now. If we continue the way we have been today, we're probably going to find ourselves lynching someone we really don't want to.

Personally, I'm starting to think one of the better choices at the moment might be bigbenwd, granted he claimed Denethor to be an inspector, but I really have a hard time believing that Denethor could really be trusted. After all, I believe there's a chance he could be the SK as well, but that's just a possibility. And I'm not sure.

[ages]

I was just trying to figure out how good each sides chances are right now. If we continue the way we have been today, we're probably going to find ourselves lynching someone we really don't want to.

So why not no lynch?

[Mr_Gnome_It_All]

I was just trying to figure out how good each sides chances are right now. If we continue the way we have been today, we're probably going to find ourselves lynching someone we really don't want to.

So why not no lynch?

That's what I was trying to figure out!

[ages]

Its just the way you started your post with:

Well, I don't like the idea of No Lynch.

Although I understand you now, you were sort of posting your thoughts as you had them, sorry about that.