SNAKES ON A PLANE MAFIA - GAME OVER - TOWN WINS

[Thesp]

I'm going to hound raj until I'm killed or discover otherwise, by the way. He's scum and no one is paying attention.

I don't know how so early on Thesp and Glork were confirmed innocents to each other. I didn't think much it when Glork said it, but I generally hoold Thesp to a higher standard. What had even given you the isea he was pro-townish that early on?

I don't think his activity this game would be consistent with Glork as scum. I just don't see it. It's certainly conceivable, but I put him waaaaaay farther down the list than anyone else, and he'd be the last one I'd lynch today, save myself.

In post 127 you begin your suspicions of raj and thok that have carried through until now. But why them? There were about 6 other people who jumped on the wagon with the same amount of reason.

Is there any among them that you think I should be suspicious of? (Note I have been suspicious of several of them.) There are some of them whom I have stated suspicions of, but some jumped on in ways that didn't catch my eye in the same way as raj's really did.


----

Cote Vount:

belp im a hug - 6 (Dur-Galad, Smashy, CrashTextDummie, Glork, Thok, Mariyta)

Yarimta - 5 (Fletcher, Coron, Quagmire, Colonel Kurtz, PBuG)
Glrok - 2 (mystery meat of doom, logicticus)
Gur-Dalad - 1 (help im a bug)
jarbdsmfreak - 1 (Thesp)
BGuP - 1 (rajrhcpfreak)
Magquire - 1 (Macros)

Not Voting - 2 (MrLuddyBee, DannelChelibird)

10 to throw off the plane and/or generally f*** up.

[Glork]

Confirm Vote: Mariyta

Actually, I'd take Mari's OMGUSishness as more of a pro-town tell at this point. I'm starting to get the distinct feeling that you're waaaaaay off-base here.

[CrashTextDummie]

Indeed, I'm also starting to get an urge to lynch PBuG. But that's mainly because HIAB and raj have decided to keep a low profile in order not to further incriminate themselves.

It really sucks how many people are still lurking in the face of a deadline, but I'm starting to feel like this may have altogether different reasons in some cases (MBL has still not posted a single message, yet unlike ChannelDelibird, he wasn't adressed by the mod).

But even if that's true, there are a lot of people who have absolutely no reason to stay quiet.

[TBuG]

*sigh*

Unvote

.

[rajrhcpfreak]

Indeed, I'm also starting to get an urge to lynch PBuG. But that's mainly because HIAB and raj have decided to keep a low profile in order not to further incriminate themselves.

It really sucks how many people are still lurking in the face of a deadline, but I'm starting to feel like this may have altogether different reasons in some cases (MBL has still not posted a single message, yet unlike ChannelDelibird, he wasn't adressed by the mod).

But even if that's true, there are a lot of people who have absolutely no reason to stay quiet.

im not lurking, im verry happy with my pbug vote.
you can give reasons for your vote hoping but its still too much for my comfort.

[Thok]

Thesp, do you have any responses to my comments? Or should I assume you've decided to focus on raj for now.

Your defense of hiab is noted.

[Dur-Galad]

Mari: your "defense" against Fletcher was in fact incredibly poor, if not very scummy. Glork's continued defense of you is noted, as is PBuG's quick unvote when it seemed like he was coming under fire for joining the wagon. Tsk tsk, PBuG.


Thesp:
1) Please elaborate on what "CrapReasons" are. If you call trying to put suspicion on a player for ludicrous reasons, and/or putting suspicion on a player while quietly trying to lynch another "CrapReasons", then I think we have drastically different ideas of good reasons to vote for someone. I think Glork's play is either scummy or simply hurting the town: ergo, he is a good day 1 lynch barring anyone specifically coming off as very scummy (someone like hiab, for example). Similarly, when a person is closely linked to another (as you and Glork are, having both called each other town), and you think one seems anti-town, the other looks scummy too. Entirely reasonable.

2) I have been on the hiab wagon pretty much all day, and I have strongly stated my case that he is scum. How am I hedging my bets?

3) I am not the only person who doesn't think raj is "horribly scummy". I am not hedging my bets on him - I simply don't think he's especially scummy

or

especially innocent at the moment. I pointed this out only because raj is/was a major topic of discussion, and I wanted to make my opinion known.

4) What hiab suggested is in no way sensical. He provided evidence that Macros has a particular post restriction, and then suggested that he was scummy because he might have a

second, entirely seperate

post restriction - one which is quite a stretch of the imagination as well.

5) You attack me for telling hiab that he has not provided enough evidence. If you had not taken me out of context, it would be plainly evident that I was simply refuting his claim to

have given evidence

of the "doing a snakelike thing once a day" post restriction, and his claim that I ignored this evidence.

Your attempt to defend hiab and attack me via craplogic and misrepresentation is very interesting to me.


Finally, does anyone actually believe Glork's claim to have not looked at his role? I just want to ascertain that he wouldn't do something so stupid and anti-town.

[Glork]

"Continued defense" Dur-Galad? Did you not see me pushing the Mari lynch/vig/whatever earlier?

Also, I find it interesting that you say "well Glork is scummy but even if not, he's a good D1 lynch." It's like you want any excuse you can get to off me.

[rajrhcpfreak]

"Continued defense" Dur-Galad? Did you not see me pushing the Mari lynch/vig/whatever earlier?

Also, I find it interesting that you say "well Glork is scummy but even if not, he's a good D1 lynch." It's like you want any excuse you can get to off me.

hey thats a good idea... naw... ill stick with this. but i do like to lynch unhelpful townies. but i have my "A game" this game.

"A game" is pattoned and copywrighted by tyler fritz (c) 2006

[Smashy]

I disagree with Glork being a day 1 lynch. Hopefully he's just joking around with the not having read the role PM, but there are people scummier enough to put Glork on the back burner for the time being.

raj: You went 4 days between the post where you claim to not lurk, and the post before that. Granted, the activity of this game did die a little bit, but I think it's time to show us your 'A game' with posts that are more than 1 line lest you come under even more fire.

[rajrhcpfreak]

ive already put my input on this pbug is too scummy and is pushing too many lynches and too many people to claim. lets look at this voteing record so far on day one....

Vote: Motherfucking Snakes
unvote, vote spectrum
Unvote
Vote: raj
Vote: Mariyta
Unvote; Vote: raj
Unvote, Vote: Mariyta
Vote: help im a bug
Unvote; Vote: Mariyta
Confirm Vote: Mariyta
unvote

[TBuG]

ive already put my input on this pbug is too scummy and is pushing too many lynches and too many people to claim. lets look at this voteing record so far on day one....

Time to bite:

My only vote WITHOUT SUFFICIENT REASONING was my second vote for you, which was OMGUS (well, and the snake vote). I have never said "CLAIM OR DIE!" Try and find a post where I asked someone to claim. I have not actually pushed a lynch, pushing a lynch and voting are two completely different things.

I'm tired of changing my vote, so I'll

Vote: raj

which will not be removed without very strong reasoning.

[rajrhcpfreak]

If spectrum has a post restriction, SHE HAS BROKEN IT.

Therefore, she is scum.

thats not pushing?

Unvote; Vote: Mariyta

because you're a) twisting Fletcher's words and b) you

are

making him sound like an idiot.

So you and Fletcher are scum together? I was in no way twisting his words or making him look like an idiot. He was accomplishing that himself. And when I ask him to clarify, he just responds with "That's not what I said".

Not sure who I want to vote more at this point. You're both ridiculously scummy.

Confirm Vote: Mariyta

confirming your vote after you already voted = pushing

[Dur-Galad]

"Continued defense" Dur-Galad? Did you not see me pushing the Mari lynch/vig/whatever earlier?

Also, I find it interesting that you say "well Glork is scummy but even if not, he's a good D1 lynch." It's like you want any excuse you can get to off me.

Yes. I saw you pushing for her to be vigged rather than lynched very strongly. Given that your play in this game has been very erratic, and that this makes me suspicious of you, that looks like a defense to me - after all, there are quite a few ways Mari could survive a vig, but not so many that would make her survive a lynch (especially since we've got one unlynchable already outed). Paranoia? Yes. But that is why your play bothers me so much.

Furthermore, please don't claim that I want to "off you" so bad until I'm actually trying to wagon you. You're not even second on my list anymore.

That all said, let's get to our hiab lynch plzkthx.

[Quagmire]

Confirm Vote: Mariyta

Actually, I'd take Mari's OMGUSishness as more of a pro-town tell at this point. I'm starting to get the distinct feeling that you're waaaaaay off-base here.

I don't. Mariyta has made not one single pro-town post today, and I'm still not convinced at all on raj. I think he's just a lazy townie, but ehh, I could be wrong.

My vote will not change.

[TBuG]

If spectrum has a post restriction, SHE HAS BROKEN IT.

Therefore, she is scum.

thats not pushing?

Unvote; Vote: Mariyta

because you're a) twisting Fletcher's words and b) you

are

making him sound like an idiot.

So you and Fletcher are scum together? I was in no way twisting his words or making him look like an idiot. He was accomplishing that himself. And when I ask him to clarify, he just responds with "That's not what I said".

Not sure who I want to vote more at this point. You're both ridiculously scummy.

Confirm Vote: Mariyta

confirming your vote after you already voted = pushing

Neither of those are pushing. People were wondering why others said spectrum broke her restriction, so I answered. With Mariyta, that was signifying that I really think she's scum.

[rajrhcpfreak]

what it waht you want, i call that pushing.

[Dur-Galad]

PBuG, if you RLY obv obv obv think Mari's scum, why are you voting for someone else and saying that your vote will probably not change? Is raj doubleplusscum?

[Thesp]

1. When I play themes, I tend to actually do a bit of research about the theme. I'm also generally quicker to figure out the likely setup than most people. For a while I actually had this post (ironically from hiab) sigged from Stephen King Mafia where I was a townie and was the first (and essentially only) person to deduce the actually setup of the scum characters into groups.

Also, why doesn't this argument apply to hiab, who "knew" this game had post restrictions on page 1? There was no reason to assume Marcos had a post restriction, especially if you've actually played a game with him and/or seen him post before.

I'm not sure anecdotal evidence is sufficient to overturn my suspicions of a tell, here. Tells work on the premise that they are done

more frequently

by scum, not

exlusively

by scum. Re: help im a bug, speculating on post restrictions differs from speculating on who the scum are. However, I think his suggestion that "ssssssscummy" is a scum post restriction is not a bad or harmful one, it may even be perfectly correct, and I don't mind him pointing it out. (Actually, if someone says anything with an extended "s" tomorrow, I hope everyone's eyes perk up because of this calling to attention.)

2. Hindsight is 20-20 on the spectrumvoid wagon.

It's not about the hinsight. It was a bad wagon in the first place.

3. I didn't "join" the hiab wagon-I was the second person on it (way back on post 146, although I didn't give any reasoning for my vote there). I briefly left to vote logicticus when I saw a tell, and then I moved my vote back. My post 220 is explaining what I saw in when I voted him in 146. Or where do you think I'm "being defensive"?

It was this post that I found odd:

I'm voting bug for his early comments about macros; especially his keeping his early vote on macros while assuming macros had a post restriction.

You know, given that we have wagons on PBuG and help im a bug, I really should clarify that the above is the reason my vote is on help im a bug.

(I know I didn't give your vote a second thought until this post. This sticks out to me as being overly/pre-emptively defensive.

1) Please elaborate on what "CrapReasons" are. If you call trying to put suspicion on a player for ludicrous reasons, and/or putting suspicion on a player while quietly trying to lynch another "CrapReasons", then I think we have drastically different ideas of good reasons to vote for someone.

No, I think help im a bug's thought on Macros was perfectly reasonable and certainly not ludicrous. When you vote for someone and say they have a valid point, you are "hedging your bet", and providing reason enough for you to escape the vote freely. The fact that help im a bug has blossomed into a wagon since then is merely icing on the cake.

I think Glork's play is either scummy or simply hurting the town...

What this says to me is that I can stop reading your posts. (I'm still reading them anyways.) You're not trying to find scum. In fact, this reason is often given as a means of justifying bad lynches, and I'm never comfortable with that.

2) I have been on the hiab wagon pretty much all day, and I have strongly stated my case that he is scum. How am I hedging my bets?

When you vote for someone and say they have a valid point (undercutting your own argument, like you did in your first vote for help im a bug), you are "hedging your bet", and providing reason enough for you to escape the vote freely. The fact that help im a bug has blossomed into a wagon since then is merely icing on the cake or you.

4) What hiab suggested is in no way sensical. He provided evidence that Macros has a particular post restriction, and then suggested that he was scummy because he might have a second, entirely seperate post restriction - one which is quite a stretch of the imagination as well.

Why is this not sensical? I don't see this as a stretch at all,

particularly now since we've already seen a bizarre post restriction.

Someone who has to post in all caps and might blow up for posting too much?

5) You attack me for telling hiab that he has not provided enough evidence. If you had not taken me out of context, it would be plainly evident that I was simply refuting his claim to have given evidence of the "doing a snakelike thing once a day" post restriction, and his claim that I ignored this evidence.

I've looked at the context a bit more closely, as it was diffiult to delineate. (I think you overstate your case here, nothing is "plainly evident" about your conversation with help im a bug.) You said he gave no evidence

"other than the word "ssssscummy" that he used"

(emphasis mine). You then said it's not evidence, it's only "data you used to form your hypothesis".

Now, suppose that someone does indeed have a post-restriction that makes them use a elongated "s" in one post per day. Quiz for Dur-Galad,

(1) What sort of evidence would you find for it?

(2) What sort of role is most likely to have such a post restriction?

Please answer those questions in thread, then I DARE YOU TO SAY AGAIN THAT

SUGGESTING WE OUGHT TO WATCH ONE PERSON IN THE FUTURE

BECAUSE THEY SAID "SSSSSCUMMY" IS SOMETHING SCUM ARE MORE LIKELY TO DO.

I dare you.


Now, we've got to hurry and turbo-lynch raj before our deadline hits. If we must, I can conceive of a Mariyta lynch, she's just not all that terribly interesting to me either way as a lynch. I do, however, think a help im a bug lynch is terribly ill-informed.

[bluesoul]

Deadline is in about 50 hours. I have sent a PM to the next available replacement.

[Smashy]

I still quite honestly thing giving the scum such a detrimental restriction like that is stupid/bastard mod-y. hiab mentioned it as a second restriction, which is why we're on him about it, but if someone does it tomorrow, THEN we'll look at it hard.

That being said, raj has said very little in the game, and he tried to make PBug sound much worse than he is. hiab hasn't posted in 5 days though, and I'm still getting vibes from him. Keeping my vote on hiab, as I don't like this lurking in the face of a deadline AND bandwagon.

p.s. I'm just noticing how messed up the VC (or should I say CV) is at the top of the page <.<

[Thesp]

I still quite honestly thing giving the scum such a detrimental restriction like that is stupid/bastard mod-y.

Why? It wouldn't be the first time, and people tend to go, "Oh, they've got a post restriction, they must be town." Scum having such a restriction would be conceivable, and worth paying attention to down the road.

[rajrhcpfreak]

you dont want me to claim i have a very powerful role.

so stop it.

[Smashy]

Why? It wouldn't be the first time, and people tend to go, "Oh, they've got a post restriction, they must be town." Scum having such a restriction would be conceivable, and worth paying attention to down the road.

tbh, I don't think Macros has such a restriction. Like I said, if it comes up again, THEN we deal with it.

you dont want me to claim i have a very powerful role.

so stop it.

This doesn't help your case AT ALL. Pending what hiab posts, my vote could go to you real soon.

[Quagmire]

you dont want me to claim i have a very powerful role.

so stop it.

Unvote Mariyta, vote: raj

Listen, I'm all for killing Mariyta at any chance we may get, and I still think she's the first target, but this post is just too much and we're nearing a deadline. I know I said I won't change, but this is just too much.

First you ignore the suspicions on you (even though I really don't think that they're valid to encounter a bandwagon like it did, but that's meaningless), and then when the votes on you are piled on enough, you try to attack PBug instead of actually defending yourself (easy scum tactic to try and deflect the focus of attention off of yourself), and then since that really hasn't worked, you're now using scare tactics to try and prevent us from lynching you.

My vote will stay on you until you claim. If you have something "very powerful" like you say you do, I'd be happy to lynch Mariyta today.