NY 151: Playground Mafia (Game Over-Mafia Win!)

[Nero Cain]

Nero clearly is a badass who has a worthwhile opinion.

You can insult me when you don't have to put compliments in your signature to remind yourself that there do in fact exist moments where not every single person on this planet hates you.

More reasons to think Nero and Mastin is scum: Nero rarely mentions Mastin, and when he does its passive or to ask for a case on him or to give a null read on him. Keep on passively defending your partner, it's amateur but one day you might learn.

Fool please, I've been in two games with you and and good chunk of your posts are half ass retarded. And lets not even talk about the NFL thread.

Me and Mastin are scum? lol Either you aren't thinkin' or you really are scum. Think really hard and tell me whats wrong.

[Nero Cain]

He's seen my scum play. I attack my buddies pretty often (self meta, not great I know) but me knowing this I got a pretty big kick out of Jun saying that me and Mastin were scum b/c I barely mentioned him.

[Nero Cain]

You think I'm town but you like SC's vote on me. lololololololol

sigh

This is a great example of one of the big issues with this game: People like Nero frustrating people like DeasVail by using absolutely shitty logic.

Nero Cain actually sold me here, though it's for something he's basically guilty of himself. DeasVail thinks Nero Cain is somewhat town, yet finds my vote acceptable—a similar issue I have with Nero Cain's not caring about rack's alignment at the end of Day 1.

I sold you on what? Though its not quite the same. Rack was going to be the day 1 lynch. I was pretty confident that Rack was town. Its true that I didn't really care that he got lynched b/c he was useless and he'd just be a distraction from scumhunting. So IMO its different that he's ok with your vote early on as where I wasn't ok with a Rack vote until there was no alliterative since half the players sat on Rack.

Why Jun thinks my pointing out a flaw in DV's logic is "absolutely shitty logic" might be a possible link between the two.

[Nero Cain]

but you said you have a slight town read on me. If you have a town read on me you

SHOULDN'T

be ok with his vote. If you are lying about having a town read on me then well you're lying scum b/c town shouldn't lie. And how do you have a town read on me if you haven't read?

[Nero Cain]

What I meant was I didn't read properly what had been said since I last posted.

And, it's the fact that my town read on you is only slight which makes a vote on you not bad. My junpei townread is stronger than the townread on you.

but its still a town read. The only votes you should be ok with are people that you think are scum.

[Nero Cain]

There's a LOT of people in this game who need to contribute or die. The lurking / active lurking level is outrageous.

Strongest town reads are still benmage and LLD.

I agree. This game is terrible the amount of fluff posting non-contributors is terrible but it seems just a little off that your biggest two town reads are lurking non scumhunting derp sacks.

Hey Code, well I tempted to agree that we should start lynching VI/lurkers...I don't understand why FG is only a maybe. He's lurking AND he's scummy as fuck all.

Funny that Kdowns wants to keep prologing the day when he's not yet even posted any opinion on the previous 80 pages. As I say he's probably not even read more than 5 pages..

This is a good point. I'm down for kdowns if FG doesn't pan out.

2. I have read a decent chunk of the game but I get a headache when I try and go back and come up with a case.

no one is asking for a full blown case but there's no reason that you shouldn't have a list of scum reads.

[Nero Cain]

NC, You should be one of the people who knows my opinions on giving out my list of reads.

.......................

the only time I remember playing with you is when you were scum. I know you're not playing and just trying to build on your meta so you can say "oh I'm useless as both town and scum!!!" but its really annoying. Stop it.

That Seacore lynch was so bad, and yet somehow it swung? The scum used the replacement as an opportunity to swing the lynch off Junpei!scum.

Its easy to say this after a lynch. You did call Pine scum but you also lightly defended seacore. Seems kinda like fence sitting to me, idk.

Though I'm pretty sick of this game and I see nothing happening until Jun flips so...

vote:Jun

[Nero Cain]

*nods*

[Nero Cain]

shotty is being replaced and I'd like to see what he/she does. A shotty lynch is lynching an empty slot. The fact my biggest scumread (TML) and absolutely useless probable scum (Benmage) want him lynched only makes me think I'm more and more right.

[Nero Cain]

psyche also scumclaimed in 2103

[Nero Cain]

Meta says SC is town and it was ViIce so he's always scummy. But its hard to imagine that out of Ben, TML, LLD, OGML,LLD and Kdowns that they are all town. Add in FakeGod and Junpei.

Also, kdowns, TML, Jun, and FG were on both mislynches.

@Mastin, how did you get from "willing to vote TML-TML is my weakest scum read."?

[Nero Cain]

IIT: Psyche tells us he has a scum roll by not replacing out and wants to active lurk to victory

[Nero Cain]

Also, kdowns, TML, Jun, and FG were on both mislynches.

Cool, so that makes us less likely to be scum huh? After all, scum wouldn't want to be caught on a mislynch, nevermind TWO.

meh, I don't by it. If you think that scum are more likely to avoid a mislynch why are you not pushing on mastin2, HezLucky, DeasVail, Code_X, drmyshottyizsik?

[Nero Cain]

@LLD-psyche ain't town. If he was town he'd replace out. Now watch him replace out to get his slot some town cred. lol We are deff going to lynch him long before lylo.

[Nero Cain]

Also, kdowns, TML, Jun, and FG were on both mislynches.

Cool, so that makes us less likely to be scum huh? After all, scum wouldn't want to be caught on a mislynch, nevermind TWO.

meh, I don't by it. If you think that scum are more likely to avoid a mislynch why are you not pushing on mastin2, HezLucky, DeasVail, Code_X, drmyshottyizsik?

I don't buy it either, but you would use that kind of shitty logic which is why I brought it up. I don't buy your argument though so have fun with that.

You just said "After all, scum wouldn't want to be caught on a mislynch, nevermind TWO." ergo Jun believes scum attempt to avoid mislynches. Just die already scum.


lol @ Jun offering scumhunting lessons. I've been in a game with you twice, you're reads are terrible.

[Nero Cain]

psyche-you keep belly aching over how this game is so long but you've been here since the beginning. Why have you not been following along and what have you been doing instead?

[Nero Cain]

nope, we lynch the elitist p.

[Nero Cain]

psyche-you keep belly aching over how this game is so long but you've been here since the beginning. Why have you not been following along and what have you been doing instead?

If you'll remember, I actually tried to get out a while back.

Could you explain this to me. Did you pm the mod and ask fot replacement and he wouldn't let you?

I haven't responded to some of the attacks on me because I'm only going to try change people's minds that actually can be changed. That's why I backed off Nero

You baked off me b/c you were unable to convince enough people to lynch me. You sure are confident in your scum reads.

FAKE GOD IS SO SCUM!!!

[Nero Cain]

I'm confident we're looking at 1 scum team + a SK or 1 scum team + a vig.

Thoughts?

I see your logic as to why you don't think there are two scum teams, but I doubt a vig. Neither of the Day 1 kills stood out as scum to me, Kublai Khan was strong town, and drmyshotgun was a claimed power role, albeit a somewhat useless one.

You underestimate the capability of a vig to be absolutely terrible.

This is beyond terrible. If anyone ever claims vig my vote is going on them. If you think a vig shot AH/Vijay and KK while leaving Scooby, shotty, FG and Ben alive then you are absolutely naive.

I'm coming round to the opinion that Mastin is town after a re-read of several players in isolation.

How does reading other players make you think Mastin is town?

[Nero Cain]

oh ok

[Nero Cain]

Eh....Fiestarter's slot is maybe scum....I'm pretty convinced that psyche is scum and I feel like fire's 299 [where he states that his (psyche) vote on Rack looks like a bus but piles on the Rack wagon could be him lynching town to buy his buddy some cred. *shrugz*

Though I also agree with a good chunk of his scum reads but I don't have a super huge town read on him simply b/c of the way he keeps moving TML around.

[Nero Cain]

Don't you have a scumread on FG? Why demean my scumread on him then?

You do know this is multiball right? Since its multiball its possible for one scum to find other scum. Its also plausible for you to be bussin' for town cred.


I rather lynch FG over Kdowns. FG's "content" has been active lurking, fence sitting, IIOA gibberish. And he's had much more time to live. FG is deff todays best lynch.

ALL ABOARD!!!

As of right now I'm thinkin' along the lines of:

DV
psyche
OGML/jun/ben/kdowns


FG
mastin
tml

[Nero Cain]

or to clarify:

FG
TML
DV
Psyche

are my top reads. If TML/psyche both flip scum then I'll strongly suspect Mastin and OMGL.

[Nero Cain]

Why are you not answering my question, Psyche?

lol @ SC.

[Nero Cain]

yep

SRS, large game. The majority of large games have two scum teams and or 1 scum team and a sk. I am

NOT

going to believe this is 1 scum team + vig, if there were three kills I'd buy a vig but with only two. no

[Nero Cain]

psyche-you keep belly aching over how this game is so long but you've been here since the beginning. Why have you not been following along and what have you been doing instead?

If you'll remember, I actually tried to get out a while back.

Could you explain this to me. Did you pm the mod and ask fot replacement and he wouldn't let you?

[Nero Cain]

yep

SRS, large game. The majority of large games have two scum teams and or 1 scum team and a sk. I am

NOT

going to believe this is 1 scum team + vig, if there were three kills I'd buy a vig but with only two. no

I don't believe one scum team + vig either, but a multiball is a two-scum game. Town shouldn't know whether we have two scumteams yet.

multiball is two anti-town factions. Both 2 scum teams or scumteam + SK is multiball. You are correct that I don't

know

but its an educated guess and at this point it seems the only logical thing to believe.

[Nero Cain]

psyche-you keep belly aching over how this game is so long but you've been here since the beginning. Why have you not been following along and what have you been doing instead?

If you'll remember, I actually tried to get out a while back.

Could you explain this to me. Did you pm the mod and ask fot replacement and he wouldn't let you?

I asked, and the mod didn't respond, but that was that.

Then I got a message later that day was starting, and, seeing that I had still not yet been replaced, had a change of heart. I had taken up this "challenge accepted" mentality, you see, to combat apathy and renew meaning to my life.

Or something.

hrmmm....I still don't understand why you pmed the mod instead of asking in thread. If you're claiming that you're post with the "challenge accepted" pic is when you had a "change of heart" that was on day 1. Not day 2.

[Nero Cain]

sure but there's still time. Lets see where the votes fall shall we?

[Nero Cain]

UNVOTE: DeasVail
VOTE: Kdowns

could you explain why you feel kdowns is more likely to flip scum then FG?

[Nero Cain]

kdowns (5) - DeasVail, Maxous, Fallman7, Mastin, Code X
FakeGod (2) - The Mini-Librarian, Nero Cain

[Nero Cain]

I'm going to pm the mods. I don't think its breaking a rule but I rather err on the safe side. If its ok with them I'm going to start a MD thread and ask the simple question "Does multiball specifically refer too two mafia teams or does it refer to any game with multiple kills from anti-town factions?" If not I'll do it after the game and laugh at you if I'm right.

[Nero Cain]

So im still voting scum.

doesn't really matter. There's no support for him today. Why are you being so useless?

[Nero Cain]

StrangerCoug-

Do you think the kills themselves could give an indication of whether it's multiball or not?

In most cases, but not all. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. While it requires scum to be either really inattentive or really unlucky, one kill could go off each night in a multiball and we'd only learn it's a multiball through the Mafia factions having names once we have flipped scum. Three kills a night? Could be Mafia-SK-vig. Four or more kills a night, though, and for it not to be a multiball requires either some of the kills to be indirect (and that assumes the game is not bastard mod) or the game to be unbalanced.

Why am I talking about the improbable, though? This is all Mafia theory and my vote on Nero Cain is based on what he seems to

KNOW

rather than have guessed about the setup.

Its the only logical fucking explanation. There's no fucking vig. Those shots were terrible. Can a vig be terrible? Sure. Like I said if there were three shots I would buy a terrible vig. But with two shots and most if not all large games being mutli-scum (mafi team, cult, SK) The chances of us having an everyday vig are -99.9%. I'm tempted to be the days lynch just so I can flip town and laugh at how fucking terrible you are.

[Nero Cain]

Its the only logical fucking explanation. There's no fucking vig. Those shots were terrible. Can a vig be terrible? Sure. Like I said if there were three shots I would buy a terrible vig. But with two shots and most if not all large games being mutli-scum (mafi team, cult, SK) The chances of us having an everyday vig are -99.9%.

You can stop preaching to the choir. It's been clear since before I voted you that I don't see a vig as likely. The reason for my vote is because you said it was a multiball, which I define as two Mafia teams. Not a single Mafia team and a serial killer—two Mafia teams. I have asked you to supply me with a third-party statement that a single Mafia team and a serial killer can constitute a multiball and you have not done so. Until you do this, I consider you to be

outed scum

. The presence or absence of a vig was never relevant as we both disagree there is one—the current argument is a dispute over whether or not a single Mafia team and an SK is a multiball.

I haven't heard back from the mods yet. Starting a GD thread asking how you define multiball doesn't really have anything to do with this game unless I specifically mention it, which I'm not. I just didn't want anyone to accuse me of such. So right after this post I'll do it.

For the record though I think multiball is any game with more than one kill a night from different factions.

I also find it pretty funny that you want

me

to find a statement that states multiball doesn't have to be just two mafia teams but

YOU

can't find a statement that defines multiball as 2 mafia teams and

ONLY

two mafia teams. Shouldn't the burden of proof be on you?

I'm not quire sure if you just really think I'm mafia and you are trying to "catch" me on this regardless if you're wrong or right about the definition of multiball or if you are just being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.

@NC: I mean backed off in that I stopped trying to convince you I'm not scum. At this point this seems like a pretty useless endeavor wouldn't you agree? You came off the scum read list for late day 2 play. Don't you have a scumread on FG?

Why demean my scumread on him then?

Can you point out

how

Nero is demeaning your scumread on FG?

Because I don't see it.

He was saying that b/c I have scumreads on both those players that I'm some how weaking his attack on FG.

[Nero Cain]

Well it looks like we are both a little wrong and right. Empking says it refers to multiple kills from anti-town (group) factions so the way I interpreted that was it could still be a Cultafia or a group of SK's like Lock Lamora used in his WWE game. The co-mod says that Fonz (who came up with the term) defines it as two scumteams. So I guess you're right though I think its pretty ridiculous that it HAS to be a group kill. A kill is a kill. Doesn't matter if it comes from a group or not. Oh well.

[Nero Cain]

Very well then, I will present what leads me to believe that a multiball is a two-scumteam game: Although doing a search for "multiball" on the wiki fails to come up with a page specifically defining the term, these three setups come up, which have in common either two Mafia teams or a Mafia team and a werewolf team; the designation "werewolf" simply being a retheming from Mafia.

I did the same thing, though in my defense I see people in games yell, anytime there are multiple nightkills, "THIS IS MULTIBALL!!!". So I though it refereed to any game with multiple killing factions and was a "catch all" type phrase like scum is.

[Nero Cain]

I've read the posts on this day, skimmed some ISOs of the leading wagons but can't do more as my eyes are getting heavy.

FakeGod > kdowns > fallman, in terms of lynches I support right now based on limited information.

I thought junpei's reaction to pressure was screamingly obvious town, and I don't like how the wagon is going on him. Feels lazy. Can elaborate on this.

LLD

- why do you want to want to lynch fallman before he's even had a chance to catch up? Granted, I get the feeling he's not going to be useful at all, but I don't see the need to rush things.

You think the slot is town but you'd support the lynch?!?

[Nero Cain]

Holy Fuck I'm not doing this deadline lynch bullshit again.

Junpei was scum.

Fallman CLAIMED SCUM IN HIS FIRST POST. THAT POST ONLY HAS SCUM MOTIVATION. SURVIVALISM IS A SCUM MOTIVATED PLAY.

HE DIDN'T SAY "LET ME SCUM HUNT". HE EXPLICTLY SAID HE WOULDN'T!

WE ARE LYNCHING FALLMAN TODAY. I WON'T LET SCUM DERAIL THIS LYNCH!

When he flips town, I'd like to lynch LLD.

unvote vote Fallman

So you are voting a guy whom you think is town just to lynch, LLD. Yeah, Ben ain't town.

andrews 2314 slightly pings my scumdar. I don't get why he's asking for claims.

[Nero Cain]

YES!!!! Best post by kdowns EVER!!!

Too many scummy ass lurkers in this game. Nothing really new is coming out. I still think FG is todays best lynch but I might have to join the fallaman lynch just to end the day.

[Nero Cain]

YES!!!! Best post by kdowns EVER!!!

Too many scummy ass lurkers in this game. Nothing really new is coming out. I still think FG is todays best lynch but I might have to join the fallaman lynch just to end the day.

Thoughts on Maxwell?

nullish. Everyone that's calling Jun/Fall town is slightly suspect b/c it could be inside info and his "bad wording" about supporting a town lynch might be a slip but there are much better scumspects out there.

[Nero Cain]

DV, with three days to deadline you're trying desperately to start a counterwagon on me out of thin air.

I didn't realize it was so close. It feels too much like early- or midday and I still see no group cohesion in this game. If we do not step up, we will lose. That's what happened in The 100 Boxes Reboot—apathetic town led to a Mafia win. This is why I'm fine lynching lurkers for the sake of getting the game moving.

This. It helps that several of the lurkers are scummy as fuck though. The only wagon I see through today is fallman. Who should we wagon tomorrow, SC?

vote:fallman

The Mini-Librarian
DeasVail
FakeGod
Psyche
mastin2
^^^^^^^
scums

[Nero Cain]

I see you reading the thread red and I also see psyche playing in his other games. Lurk more scum.

[Nero Cain]

someone please hammer.

[Nero Cain]

[Nero Cain]

We kill FG or psyche next dp.

Can we not lynch him then?

no time for a FG wagon.

[Nero Cain]

you should just iso FG. He's active lurking like a pro. His list of reads was terrible mainly b/c I don't know what they are (he did them in LOTR characters; this to me seems like scum trying to be sneaky. I don't see any town motivation there) AND he's ignoring all sorts of questions.

psyche is scum too.

[Nero Cain]

Town utterly deserves to lose this.

I disagree. Sure there was alot of bad town play but there was also alot of good, id it was all bad we wouldn't have been this close to winning.

[Nero Cain]

I think its more psyche fault then yours.

[Nero Cain]

And you know for Andrew to come in shoot the Godfather at night and then name the scum team is incredibly suspect, whether he pleads his innocence or not regards the IP addresses. I'd be pretty riled if I was scum in that situation also so can understand LLD's reaction totally.

I dunno, I'm on the fence. Andrew was nominated for a scummy last year and I think he has a pretty good track record overall. So unless he cheats in all his games its seems like he's just a legit good player. Benmage called the rest of the reaming scum after Andrew, was he cheating? So if Ben can do it I don't see how Andrew can't do it.

[Nero Cain]

epicmafia lets people cheat? WTF?

[Nero Cain]

Sorry. I'm not good at this.

troll alt Junpie thinks you are!!!!

[Nero Cain]

Huh?

In the dead qt he said you were an upper tier quality player or some shit.

[Nero Cain]

Oh right Blacklist GreyIce.

THIS 100X.

[Nero Cain]

Where Andrew obviously cheated (if he had all these scumreads, why did he wait until after he shot me to advocate ANY of them? How could he be so sure that would earn him the necessary town cred? Hmmmmm......)

There were like 90+ pages when he replaced in. And the suggestion that he should have all these scum reads right when he replaced in is lol.

His actual first reads were only 2 scum.

okay i think


-firestarter guy pretty scummy
-DEasVail pretty towny
-Lady pretty ok
-Either maxwell or junpei( fall) is scum.

It looks to me like he read or reread during the night decided to shoot you and once you flipped scum kinda put thinks together. Its not like the scum team played the worlds greatest game. Mafia was just kickin' our ass 'cause there were so many mislynchable and fairly gullible town. SC defended you like crazy and the link between you and FG was rather clear. But he didn't even call SC scum. And he called Hez. So yeah, I doubt he was cheating.