NY Mafia 155 - New Age Mafia II - Game Over!

[Flameaxe]

Double posting:

I'm gonna hold my vote for a little. My class is over and I can get a stronger hold on this game now. I'd like to.

Off the top of my head/from first post, I dislike:

Glork - Warning: This is almost 100% gut. I really can't put my finger on it, but something has been bothering me about Glork's posting all game. Given, a lot of this could be coming from his move, I figure its still worth noting. However, out of the two neighbors...

Rhinox - Feels much more suspicious than Glork. All of his posts at the start of the massclaim are janky as fuck (I just read back, for the record). I don't completely like how he tried to hold back his extra ability, but dangled the idea in front of us anyway. This could be as much stupid as scum, so I won't really pry into it all. Find it odd that in 263 he votes for Glork, soon to be claimed neighbor partner. I know neighbors aren't exactly confirmed (or at all confirmed, huehue), but I still find it odd to see someone vote their partner on day one in a massclaim. He managed to avoid both scumlynches iirc. I could care less about day 1, but his day 2 actions feel odd to me. Post 670 is disgusting. I don't like how a votestall comes from waiting for singer (the person who refused to claim day 1) to claim. Also waiting to see if it was a gambit just seems like wishful thinking to not have to lynch singer, or at least thats how it comes off.

Scooby - In the most vapid way I know how: Lots of words that generally amount to nothing. Stuck on that line between moron and scum. Has taken a few stances and feels a little more useful than...

Staeg - Not very useful overall. His recent claims reek of ultimate nulltell, which I explained a bit in 749. Beyond that, I won't be going into much more detail, because there really isn't much more to tell.

RedFF - Only because if I sit here and call scooby and Staeg worthless, its only fair to lump RedFF with them. Voting Agar here is completely idiotic. Has put his vote in lots of places, hasn't really backed them up to push them anywhere beyond 1 vote, jumped onto a few wagons when they were popular. ETCETC.

Null reads:

Hoopla - Lots of wordy posts. A lot of what I read as throwaway wordy posts. For as much throwaway stuff, there is good stuff, so I don't see anything bad of it. Actually going back to read through, its not as much throwaway as I originally thought. However, Hoopla is still in my list of people that haven't been memorable, so the slot stays in my null list.

Quag - I need to reread post-rolePM. Thats all here. Sorry

SIMSIM - Leaning town, tough to get a solid read here with the activity. The posts that have come have been pretty good though.

Townreads:

JD - Posts have been solid throughout the game.

Tierce - Mostly due to results claims. Has picked it up a bit in recent pages, and I'm liking what I see a little more.

Bev - Worthless for the most part, but I'm seeing the claim as townish for now. This read leans to the null side of townreads.

Agar - Don't see a reason to disbelieve the claim at this point.

BellaIzzy - The most useless confirmed townie player of all time?

I think thats everyone. Can we lynch Rhinox? We should totally lynch Rhinox.

Vote: Rhinox

.

[JDodge]

Bev - Worthless for the most part, but I'm seeing the claim as townish for now. This read leans to the null side of townreads.

I think bev's been turning into a really strong player and would be a very good asset to the town if he would just

fucking say more

instead of waiting for the opportunity to influence things falls on him.

[Flameaxe]

Meh, he's gotten a little better, but still pretty far off where he needs to be right now.

[Rhinox]

vote: scooby

The case on Sim is retarded, and scooby's just pushing the same line as yesterday without actually taking anything thats happened into account.

I don't completely like how he tried to hold back his extra ability, but dangled the idea in front of us anyway.

Why would that be something scum would do? I was trying to draw a nk. Why does this apply to me, but you didn't have anything to say about singer dangling the "I have a role you don't want me to claim and just have the cop check me". Actually it was just after that post that you weren't liking the singer wagon anymore.

Find it odd that in 263 he votes for Glork, soon to be claimed neighbor partner. I know neighbors aren't exactly confirmed (or at all confirmed, huehue), but I still find it odd to see someone vote their partner on day one in a massclaim.

Why does this apply to me and not glork who had already voted me?

He managed to avoid both scumlynches iirc.

You don't remember correctly. nham and singer were my top 2 suspects. I was voting singer when nham got lynched, and I didn't hammer singer because ppl had asked for more time.

I could care less about day 1, but his day 2 actions feel odd to me. Post 670 is disgusting. I don't like how a votestall comes from waiting for singer (the person who refused to claim day 1) to claim. Also waiting to see if it was a gambit just seems like wishful thinking to not have to lynch singer, or at least thats how it comes off.

The votestall came from confusion. Because after nham flipped scum I thought singer would be less likely scum, and after talking with glork overnight I was going to vote sim at the start of the day. Then there was the guilty and a number of other people were talking about it possibly being a lolgambit and I didn't want to be basing any decisions on false information. The idea that it was wishful thinking that I wouldn't have to vote singer just seems like you're making things up and not actually reading my play at all. I mean, you think, as scum, I'm going to come out on day 1 and bus 2 of my scum partners and then not actually get credit by being on the lynch, and then on day 2 I'm going to pussy foot around if a guilty is claimed on the other?

[Flameaxe]

Why would that be something scum would do? I was trying to draw a nk. Why does this apply to me, but you didn't have anything to say about singer dangling the "I have a role you don't want me to claim and just have the cop check me". Actually it was just after that post that you weren't liking the singer wagon anymore.

Reading the post would tell you that I did not like that post, but other reasons had me doubting the wagon at the time. It wasn't that I didn't want to see singer dead, it was that Nhammen simply seemed like the better option.

Why does this apply to me and not glork who had already voted me?

Glork was pretty clearly not voting/wanting to lynch you for anything other than you holding something back in a massclaim. As soon as you fullclaimed, he removed his vote. At the same time, your vote snuck on. It wasn't that I found either of them not odd, yours was much more notable. This reply also seems like a good way of avoiding the real problem of it all.

You don't remember correctly. nham and singer were my top 2 suspects.

I was voting singer when nham got lynched, and I didn't hammer singer because ppl had asked for more time.

Hey look, the bold part showing exactly what I was saying! I don't give two fucks if they were your top suspects.

The votestall came from confusion. Because after nham flipped scum I thought singer would be less likely scum, and after talking with glork overnight I was going to vote sim at the start of the day. Then there was the guilty and a number of other people were talking about it possibly being a lolgambit and I didn't want to be basing any decisions on false information. The idea that it was wishful thinking that I wouldn't have to vote singer just seems like you're making things up and not actually reading my play at all. I mean, you think, as scum, I'm going to come out on day 1 and bus 2 of my scum partners and then not actually get credit by being on the lynch, and then on day 2 I'm going to pussy foot around if a guilty is claimed on the other?

The votestall itself doesn't bother me, after all, I did too. It was the reasoning behind it that didn't seem right, and is the ultimate reason I'm voting you. All of your reasons to votestall came across as a way to outright avoid lynching singerscummer. What reason would an already claimed cop have to gambit a result? What reason would you have to even attempt to run through this line of logic? Simple: You don't want to lynch singer. It seems pretty plain and simple to me.

You're damn right I think you pussy footed around a guilty. A claimed cop claims a guilty result. Even given the stupidity of psyches play at the start of day two, a town player does not think "oh, it might be a gambit". You continued to avoid the wagon even after that point to wait for a claim that was blatantly never going to arrive. If we spent a week on a massclaim failing to get a claim out of singer, what made you think we were going to get one at the end of day?

This scooby wagon holds no interest to me.

[Hoopla]

I'm still content with lynching scooby, but will also consider Simenon. Even though the value of scooby being an SK seems diminished, the chance of him being mafia still remains, and given he has been largely useless and is in the non-confirmed VT pool, he's a fine candidate. If scooby is an SK, it might have been a good play to not kill, given he was coming under pressure from that angle - that's a little tinfoil though, so I'm not going to give too much credibility to it.

Bella -

Innocent Child

Staeg -- ROLEBLOCKER (RB'd scooby N1, Tierce N2)
AGar -- 1-SHOT VIGILANTE (Used. Shot Quilford)
bv310 -- 1-SHOT GUNSMITH (Used. Tierce is NOT carrying a gun)
Rhinox -- BULLETPROOF TO MAFIA, NEIGHBOR WITH GLORK
Glork -- VANILLA TOWNIE, NEIGHBOR WITH RHINOX
Tierce -- VANILLA TOWNIE
Hoopla -- VANILLA TOWNIE
scooby -- VANILLA TOWNIE
redFF -- VANILLA TOWNIE
Simenon -- VANILLA TOWNIE
Flameaxe -- VANILLA TOWNIE
JDodge -- VANILLA TOWNIE
Quagmire - ???

~~

The only active power left in the game is the Roleblocker, so it could get to the point where if Staeg is town, an anti-town faction will kill him for us, meaning we don't waste a lynch on him. At the very least, we should at least wait another couple of days to decide what to do with him if he hasn't been NK'ed yet. There is still at least one more scum in the VT's, so we should still be lynching from there until we find more scum. Scum will likely be targeting the PR section at night, narrowing it down for us without us using any lynches there.

The single kill last night has opened up the possibility of this not being a 4:1:14 setup:

4:15 - If there isn't an SK, this is the likeliest setup, with probably one PR being scum.
5:14 - Less likely, but possible if none of the PR's are scum.

~~

It's to make hard to any acute declarations when we're still missing Quagmire's role from the list. So,

I'll request Quagmire to claim now

. He had a good run with town letting him do what he wants, but I'd hope he cooperates.

[Hoopla]

VOTE: scooby

[JDodge]

I'm going to go ahead with a bold assertion and say that Quag shouldn't claim unless his claim will have an incredibly obvious immediate benefit to the town; I believe securely in his towniness and feel that bit of uncertainty that we can have over the scum is quite nice at this point.

[Rhinox]

Flameaxe:

Not sure if you're dumb or scum. You're conclusion that I didn't want to lynch singer is so ridiculous I feel like I must be playing a different game or something.

Reading the post would tell you that I did not like that post, but other reasons had me doubting the wagon at the time. It wasn't that I didn't want to see singer dead, it was that Nhammen simply seemed like the better option.

yeah and switch that around and thats exactly how I felt about singer and nham but somehow you think that equates to I didn't want to lynch singer even though I clearly wanted to lynch singer over nham.

Glork was pretty clearly not voting/wanting to lynch you for anything other than you holding something back in a massclaim. As soon as you fullclaimed, he removed his vote. At the same time, your vote snuck on. It wasn't that I found either of them not odd, yours was much more notable. This reply also seems like a good way of avoiding the real problem of it all.

yeah whatever idc voting a neighbor partner isn't a scumtell so this is just stupid. Tell me, what is the real problem of it all that I'm allegedly avoiding?

Hey look, the bold part showing exactly what I was saying! I don't give two fucks if they were your top suspects.

Exactly what you're saying makes no sense. Context is important.

Even given the stupidity of psyches play at the start of day two, a town player does not think "oh, it might be a gambit".

oh really?

That felt like way too long for that result to come out in a massclaimed game.

Pretty simple. I refuse to believe that you have a guilty on singer.

The thing is, I didn't believe psyche's guilty until singer went...

Nope, not taking you seriously

When I have some time I'll go back through some of Psyche'd past games and see if he has a history of lying as town. Then I'll decide.

My gut says Psyche is gambiting in an attempt to make singer claim and actually play the game instead of posting excuses.

I'll happily vote singer when he confirms 100% he is being truthful.

So, nhammen was scum - nice work iamausername. My gut says Psyche is gambiting in an attempt to make singer claim and actually play the game instead of posting excuses.

I'll happily vote singer when he confirms 100% he is being truthful.

This, exactly this, which is why in like half an hour I plan on running through Psyche's game history to see if he has a track record of gambling as town.

So everyone up there is scum then? All those posts happened before I even posted on D2. Even you were questioning the guilty result. WTF...

So tell me, why doesn't a town player question a guilty at the start of day 2? Why is that something only scum does? And why aren't all the above scum? Why doesn't scum just come out and bus when theres a guilty they know is true?

You continued to avoid the wagon even after that point to wait for a claim that was blatantly never going to arrive. If we spent a week on a massclaim failing to get a claim out of singer, what made you think we were going to get one at the end of day?

This first sentence is a lie. It was less than 24 fucking hours into the start of the day. What part of that is "continuing to avoid the wagon even after after that point to wait for a claim that was blatantly never going to arrive"? And I wasn't

just

waiting for a claim:

*twiddling thumbs*

want to hammer singer but honoring requests to wait.

specific references:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p4242195
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4243022
Plus all the actual conversation that was going on. Didn't even say anything about still waiting for a claim.

And then, I didn't get to hammer because scum self hammered. Scum wanted the day to end and self-hammered to cut off conversation. Yet somehow its also scum motivation for me to NOT hammer singer to let conversation happen? does not compute...

As for the claim.. what fucking ever. I was clearly ready to lynch singer D1 despite her not claiming, and I would have hammered her D2 claim or no. At the START OF THE DAY (not the end of the day, idk where you're getting that from) with a guilty and a pile of votes, its just ingrained procedure to ask for a claim. You're putting way too much focus on that one mention in D2 of asking for claim, when clearly the much bigger reason I didn't immediately vote singer was to make sure there wasn't shenanigans going on with the guilty result.

[Hoopla]

I'm going to go ahead with a bold assertion and say that Quag shouldn't claim unless his claim will have an incredibly obvious immediate benefit to the town; I believe securely in his towniness and feel that bit of uncertainty that we can have over the scum is quite nice at this point.

You know he's done absolutely nothing since he read his role PM? All his helpful stuff came early in the game. If anything, his reluctance/apathy around deadline when we had two scum wagons running is suspect.

There is value in him not claiming, but it's at the expense of setup speculation, and given the town decided to massclaim, it makes little sense not being able to make deductions with full information. Since we're only going to be lynching VT's the next couple of days, him waiting isn't a horrible idea - it makes setup spec harder, but whatever conclusions we come to, we probably shouldn't be lynching a PR anyway, so whatever, I guess.

As long as he claims before I die.

[Glork]

As easily explainable by two anti-town parties killing the cop on N2 and the cop not dying on N1 due to successful roleblock. I still think it reasonable to assume that there's another potential killing party on the cards but think it's unreasonable to act on that line of thought until tomorrow night now that the obvious NK targets have exhausted themselves (with the potential exception of Stag-if-town).

That's my point; it makes no sense to go after scooby for a claimed roleblock on him when we're not even certain if there are multiple killers in play aside from AGar. He can be scum, but that'd be a weird reason to vote him.

Nobody at any point said they were voting Scooby for the roleblock N1. What the fuck are you talking about?

[JDodge]

As easily explainable by two anti-town parties killing the cop on N2 and the cop not dying on N1 due to successful roleblock. I still think it reasonable to assume that there's another potential killing party on the cards but think it's unreasonable to act on that line of thought until tomorrow night now that the obvious NK targets have exhausted themselves (with the potential exception of Stag-if-town).

That's my point; it makes no sense to go after scooby for a claimed roleblock on him when we're not even certain if there are multiple killers in play aside from AGar. He can be scum, but that'd be a weird reason to vote him.

Nobody at any point said they were voting Scooby for the roleblock N1. What the fuck are you talking about?

she's not saying that, she's commenting on a percieved (although unintended) implication in my post that people were

[Quagmire]

If anything, his reluctance/apathy around deadline when we had two scum wagons running is suspect.

If you actually go look at my posts from day 2, you'll see they were implying I wanted to post stuff and some analysis before we did any lynching. I had no time to make said posts. Day ended in like two days.

[Quagmire]

I'm going to go ahead with a bold assertion and say that Quag shouldn't claim unless his claim will have an incredibly obvious immediate benefit to the town; I believe securely in his towniness and feel that bit of uncertainty that we can have over the scum is quite nice at this point.

It makes sense for me to claim. It made sense for me to claim yesterday, but luckily nothing bad has come out of it.

I am a 1-shot gunsmith. I went back on day one and tried to find who was most suspicious. Originally it was Tierce, but Hoopla's #569 did a pretty good job of convincing me otherwise, and I thought there was enough attention on Tierce it was possible others would target her as well. Turned out I was right.

Instead I went over d1's posts and wagons and thought it was quite convenient Hoopla hardly mentioned nhammen at all upon replacing into the game. Hoopla does not have a gun.

[Quagmire]

I haven't read any of day 3's action so far, nor have I processed anything from d2 yet. It's been a busy 7-10 days. I'll do that and post some proper analysis in the next few days. Let's take our time today...we're 2-for-2 in lynches and we have an opportunity to step on scums' throats if we stay clear and focused.

[Hoopla]

Interesting.

[Flameaxe]

Not sure if you're dumb or scum. You're conclusion that I didn't want to lynch singer is so ridiculous I feel like I must be playing a different game or something.

Words and actions. Not sure if you know they are the same. I could spend the next week spouting how sure I am that Glork is scum, and it would mean nothing.

yeah and switch that around and thats exactly how I felt about singer and nham but somehow you think that equates to I didn't want to lynch singer even though I clearly wanted to lynch singer over nham.

Your misrep is kinda cute. Its pretty obvious my beef with you and singer is from day two.

yeah whatever idc voting a neighbor partner isn't a scumtell so this is just stupid. Tell me, what is the real problem of it all that I'm allegedly avoiding?

Yeah, which I why I called it odd. Reading, pretty tech. Pushing the issue to "yeah, well glork did it too" is a nice distraction from "hey, i did this".

Exactly what you're saying makes no sense. Context is important.

You were voting singer when nham was lynched. You weren't on a singer wagon. You're being intentionally thick, right?

So everyone up there is scum then? All those posts happened before I even posted on D2. Even you were questioning the guilty result. WTF...

Might I direct you to my reads post? You might notice a general trend of the people high up on my list. My post did not question the guilty result. I questioned the method it was revealed. Keep grasping at them straws, brah. Its p cool.

So tell me, why doesn't a town player question a guilty at the start of day 2? Why is that something only scum does? And why aren't all the above scum? Why doesn't scum just come out and bus when theres a guilty they know is true?

At the time of the quilty, there was very little reason to question anything. There was nothing that would stop a singer lynch. If Psyche was lying about his role, we would know. If he was telling the truth, we would know. There simply was nothing stopping anyone from disbelieving the claim. I've seen some gambits and my day, but claiming cop in a mass claim and then making up a result just to get someone lynched seems a little beyond invested.

As you yourself said, all previous discussion of gambits happened before your post. Its not farfetched for a scum to hop on a discussion train like that.

This first sentence is a lie. It was less than 24 fucking hours into the start of the day. What part of that is "continuing to avoid the wagon even after after that point to wait for a claim that was blatantly never going to arrive"? And I wasn't

just

waiting for a claim:

*twiddling thumbs*

want to hammer singer but honoring requests to wait.

Right, I forgot you jumped on the wagon with an actual vote. Quit being thick. It doesn't suit you.

And then, I didn't get to hammer because scum self hammered. Scum wanted the day to end and self-hammered to cut off conversation. Yet somehow its also scum motivation for me to NOT hammer singer to let conversation happen? does not compute...

This is pretty over-simplified. Singer gave up. Not all scum do that. Someone who replaced in and gave more than two shits about the game might have cared enough to keep themselves alive. Using Singer's play as a example of proper scumplay is fucking stupid when its pretty clear its the exception to the rule.

As for the claim.. what fucking ever. I was clearly ready to lynch singer D1 despite her not claiming, and I would have hammered her D2 claim or no. At the START OF THE DAY (not the end of the day, idk where you're getting that from) with a guilty and a pile of votes, its just ingrained procedure to ask for a claim. You're putting way too much focus on that one mention in D2 of asking for claim, when clearly the much bigger reason I didn't immediately vote singer was to make sure there wasn't shenanigans going on with the guilty result.

Again, you're doing wonderful at being thick. If it didn't matter, you wouldn't have mentioned one. I never mentioned anything about you asking for a claim at the end of the day. I proposed a hypothetical and you blew it up at me. GG?

I've already discussed my thoughts of testing the gambit, and I'm not going to repeat it for nothing. Scroll up and read it.

PEDIT: @Quag claim: I-I-ve got nothing.

[Flameaxe]

On another note, I'm sick of this. I'm leaving my vote and prob won't reply to the next wall of text.

[Tierce]

The quote stripe walls need to die a fiery death. And this is coming from me, which is of itself rather hilarious. Will read that madness later.


Not sure if I buy Quagmire's claim. On the one hand, it's a stupid scum claim, on the other hand, it's a good scum claim because of exactly that--people assume it's too stupid for scum to make it.

Quagmire, when did you do this "

[going]

back on day one"? And why didn't you have an issue with bev's claim, after there was a claim from a cop as well?

[Quagmire]

Quagmire, when did you do this "

[going]

back on day one"? And why didn't you have an issue with bev's claim, after there was a claim from a cop as well?

1. I took about an hour of RL time during N1 to re-analyze everyone and their wagons when I was trying to decide who to use my night action on. I actually had a sheet of paper analyzing voting patterns but I seem to have lost it.
2. Why would I have an issue with bv's claim? 2 one-shot gunsmiths aren't broken. I actually think it makes him fairly close to confirmed town in my book.

[Hoopla]

The first New Age Mafia had two Trackers and two Grave Diggers, so two 1-Shot Gunsmiths isn't incriminating. I could see one potentially being scum, though.

[Rhinox]

On another note, I'm sick of this. I'm leaving my vote and prob won't reply to the next wall of text.

Thats fine whatever its already clear from your last post your on full blown confirmation bias mode, so thanks for sparing me the effort of refuting more crap.

[Simenon]

Um, no scooby, those posts are out of context. You did not perform an "iso." You literally took three things that I've said about people (taken from posts that had more content) and tried to make them seem like that's all I've said about people without any regard to the time when I said them or to any of the things that caused me to say them, and 1. that's really dumb 2. it's unconvincing 3. you're only doing it because I said I wanted to lynch you yesterday (similar rationale behind OMGUS vote on Tierce)

Also, if you've been active with your plan to "hunt motivations, subconscious tells, consistence, posting styles," I don't see it and I don't believe it.

By the way, loved how you were so eager to lynch Glork and now have decided to completely back off (without explanation) of that now that the scumlynches make him look town.

Also loved how you hammered nhamman, providing now explanation, after your only previous comment on him was "don't get the nhamman hate"

Vote Scooby

[Tierce]

Also loved how you hammered nhamman, providing now explanation, after your only previous comment on him was "don't get the nhamman hate"

Whoever did that, it wasn't scooby. He only mentioned nhammen once before hammer, and it was to say he would read him and singer both and reach a conclusion--which took like... 8 minutes or something?

[Flameaxe]

On another note, I'm sick of this. I'm leaving my vote and prob won't reply to the next wall of text.

Thats fine whatever its already clear from your last post your on full blown confirmation bias mode, so thanks for sparing me the effort of refuting more crap.

Sorry you expect me to be a mind-reader, but I gotta go off of what I actually read.