Mini 362 - Open Role Bastard Mafia (Game Over)

[Zindaras]

And if you want to point out stupid townies, I think chamber is another one of them. He said 2 people are scum for demanding cases.

Being a stupid is no reason to lynch someone, I agree. I also agree that chamber is playing stupidly. Which is why I have my eye on him, because I don't think he's stupid.

I find thesp's lynch-hungriness disturbing. It's only been 12 pages, day one. And people are contributing, it isn't as if the game is going nowhere.

Only 12 pages? Only been a month-long day? Only two deadlines (if I remember correctly) that have been retracted?

Excuse me if I'm not one for moping around (this is the reason why I don't play in the big games here), but we need to finally lynch someone.

[chamber]

I'm still not seeing the m4yhem lynch, but I do agree that his lynch will give us a lot of info about the alignment of other players. I disagree with the 'we should catch stupid townies' comment. In fact, I was the one who gave that argument in newbi #355, and was lynched because of it. We should lynch scum, never townies.

And if you want to point out stupid townies, I think chamber is another one of them. He said 2 people are scum for demanding cases. @Chamber: It's necessary to give reasons. I discussed this a lot in mini charmed mafia, so ignorance is no excuse. If you still choose to play this way, either you're a stupid townie, or you're scum.

I find thesp's lynch-hungriness disturbing. It's only been 12 pages, day one. And people are contributing, it isn't as if the game is going nowhere.

Calling me stupid because we disagree isn't very nice. As long as you understand that I am town(ad that I am right), its not so bad.

[Nai]

I think a stupid townie lynch is good, because stupid townies tend to be destructive towards the town. Their actions make it dangerous for any townie to be safe with, for instance, votes and starting bandwagons that really have no backing at all in facts. Starting a bandwagon without reason and getting people to follow you into the bandwagon BEFORE giving good reasons is VERY bad for the town. It only helps the Scum.

So the question is: Help the scum by following the stupid townie (and, chances are, you'll follow again), or help the scum ONCE by killing the stupid townie with a chance of that townie actually being scum.

[chamber]

I think a stupid townie lynch is good, because stupid townies tend to be destructive towards the town. Their actions make it dangerous for any townie to be safe with, for instance, votes and starting bandwagons that really have no backing at all in facts. Starting a bandwagon without reason and getting people to follow you into the bandwagon BEFORE giving good reasons is VERY bad for the town. It only helps the Scum.

So the question is: Help the scum by following the stupid townie (and, chances are, you'll follow again), or help the scum ONCE by killing the stupid townie with a chance of that townie actually being scum.

See this is complete bs. You could instead IGNORE the stupid townie, and jsut never follow him. Of course if this is at all aimed at me, Im nto a stupid townie, and always have reasons for attacking people, I just don't like stating them. Now if we could get on with the m4yhem lynch everything would be perfect.

[Bogre]

Chamber...uhm...stating reasons is kind of important in this game, IMO. Then we know it isn't scumwaggonning and that you've thought out your vote before putting it on.

[chamber]

Chamber...uhm...stating reasons is kind of important in this game, IMO. Then we know it isn't scumwaggonning and that you've thought out your vote before putting it on.

And I disagree.

[Bogre]

FOS: Chamber

And I find that scummy.

[chamber]

FOS: Chamber

And I find that scummy.

I can point you to several ongoing games where I was lynched day 1 as town for people finding it scummy.

[Nai]

Does that tell you nothing? That you get lynched for it? It shows that what you are doing looks scummy and you aren't helping anyone.

Chamber, the fact that I ignore him doesn't matter. If he's particularly charismatic, and if he can get people to vote along with him, he's dangerous for the town. Especially if he, like you, doesn't post good reasons for his votes, just vague words that mean nothing in the end. My 1 vote NOT going along with him (because I ignore him) doesn't mean as much as the six votes following him because they don't.

[Twomz]

Stupid townies are bad because the scum won't NK them and they'll be the ones representing the townside in the endgame... and the scum will probably manipulate them into killing each other for a win (unless we have stupid scum, or something).

[ShadowLurker]

M4yhem: I'm starting to see a bit of that self destructive scum when you defend yourself. You are throwing suspicions at EVERYONE. First Thesp is scum, then the follower bandwagoneers are scum, earlier in the game other people were scum, now chamber is scum. It's not like chamber suddenly started acting differently. (except for the actual posting)

Also, please don't sidetrack this game into a discussion of stupid townies/stupid scum. We need to get focused with already two deadlines implemented

[chamber]

Does that tell you nothing? That you get lynched for it? It shows that what you are doing looks scummy and you aren't helping anyone.

Just because people thought I wasn't helpfull doesn't make it so. Scum tells should be dynamic, not everyone makes the same ones and assuming I'm scum because I'm acting like some other guy does when he's scum is what's actually stupid.

[Nai]

The fact that you said "several games" leads me to believe this has happened several times. That means MANY people think it's a scum tell. And if many people think it's as cum tell, it's probably something that scum do quite often.

"The town always wants more information, the scum want to give the town as little information as possible."

Why would you hide your reasonings? What would motivate you to do that? What's the point of hiding your reasons for voting? There's no reason for it. Everyone benefits if you give your reasons, no one does if you just vote without reason.

[Zindaras]

I think Nai's being far too aggressive regarding chamber.

We have established chamber as a guy with strange thoughts about arguments and cases (as in asking for them is scummy).

So be it.

He has been lynched for it several times, but it doesn't change him. Therefore, it's better to know when you've lost and live with it.

[M4yhem]

Twomz- There are reasons for protown people to react like that as well.

Zindaras-Shed light on which other players? You realize thesp is just making it up as he goes along, don’t you?

Only 12 pages? Only been a month-long day? Only two deadlines (if I remember correctly) that have been retracted?

Excuse me if I'm not one for moping around (this is the reason why I don't play in the big games here), but we need to finally lynch someone.

Now you know how I feel. But since I’m one of the louder and more active players here, lynching me will make tomorrow quieter and slower. If you must lynch just to finish the day, how about a lurker lynch. Like…hey, like Chamber! Or Bogre.

Personally I think stupid townies should be shot.

M4yhem: I'm starting to see a bit of that self destructive scum when you defend yourself.

What does this mean? Please explain.

You are throwing suspicions at EVERYONE. First Thesp is scum, then the follower bandwagoneers are scum, earlier in the game other people were scum, now chamber is scum. It's not like chamber suddenly started acting differently. (except for the actual posting)

1)I always suspect lots of people on day one. I find this stage of the game hard, so I tend to jump on anything I see that’s scummy and change my mind a lot.

2)Chamber voted me for asking for reasoning behind the vote on me. As a reason, that sucks. Plus he’s been lurking for practically the entire game. He just pops up to put the third vote on me, and I’m not supossed to see that as scummy?

Pariah

, would you give us a votecount? Please and thank you.

[Zindaras]

Zindaras-Shed light on which other players? You realize thesp is just making it up as he goes along, don’t you?

Not Thesp. Nai, who has been openly defending you, neither. I'm looking more at Shadowlurker, who is defending you, but less aggressively than Nai. I'm looking more at Chamber and Twomz, who were voting for theman/hiab along with you before switching votes. I'm looking more at kirbyphreak, who's apparently okay with anything except casting the deciding vote.

Now you know how I feel. But since I’m one of the louder and more active players here, lynching me will make tomorrow quieter and slower. If you must lynch just to finish the day, how about a lurker lynch. Like…hey, like Chamber! Or Bogre.

Activity does not guarantee speed. Regardless of your alignment, your lynch will give us leads to go on tomorrow.

Pariah

, would you give us a votecount? Please and thank you.

I think you're at 5 or 6.

[kirbyphreak]

He's at lynch minus 1. I'm gonna hammer him unless his next post has something good.

[ShadowLurker]

Not Thesp. Nai, who has been openly defending you, neither. I'm looking more at Shadowlurker, who is defending you, but less aggressively than Nai.

So defending townies we think are innocent is now scummy?


Kirbyphreak's latest post just pinged on my scumdar. First of all, M4yhem hasn't even roleclaimed yet and while he could be mafia aligned, it's still good to have a roleclaim first. Second of all, that "in a while" thing makes it sound like Kirby wanted to be on the bandwagon while being like "I gave him a chance to defend." You either vote for him, or you don't vote him, I hate people who sit in the middle.

[Zindaras]

Not Thesp. Nai, who has been openly defending you, neither. I'm looking more at Shadowlurker, who is defending you, but less aggressively than Nai.

So defending townies we think are innocent is now scummy?

1) Depending on M4yhem's alignment, obviously.

2) I said I found your defending of M4yhem worse than Nai's.

[Twomz]

Shadowlurker... would you rather Kirby just hammah him now before he gets a chance to claim? I for one always do what Kirby just did, and find it far more protown than scummy.

[spectrumvoid]

Okay, I'm starting to understand the reason why people think m4yhem is scum, ie, because he's going around suspecting people. However, that doesn't seem that scummy to me. M4yhem has given decent reasons for why he suspected some of them. Also, it is better for him to suspect some than suspect none and go with the flow. It isn't as though he is pushing for them to be lynched, he just pointed out their various scummy behaviour, which I think is pro-townish. Since he's at lynch -1, m4hem should claim.

If you want to use the 'going around suspecting everybody' theory, I'd rather look at Thesp, who accused people without stating reasons, compared to m4yhem, who has.

Zin: yes, lynching m4yhem will give us more information tomorrow, but lynching basically anyone will give us info. Say we lynch person X who is townie/scum. Based on his alignment, we can take a closer look at who was on/off/just hopped off the wagon. So your argument that we should lynch m4yhem for information is very weak.

Chamber's recent posts have done nothing to improve his status in my LOS.

vote: Chamber

Just because he's done that in other games doesn't mean that he isn't scum in this one.

[chamber]

his status in my LOS.

vote: Chamber

Just because he's done that in other games doesn't mean that he isn't scum in this one.

Nor does it mean I am scum.

[Nai]

First of all, I'm not defending M4yhem at all. I'm not defending HIM, I'm accusing his attacker. There's a big difference. I don't know about M4yhem's alignment, I have no suspicions about him, but I DO know that Thesp's attack has craplogic written all over it.

Also, Chamber, saying "I've played like this countless times, was lynched for it, and was townie" is just about the scummiest thing I can see anyone doing. It gives a GOOD excuse for scum to play like scum and assume they won't get nailed for it.

[chamber]

First of all, I'm not defending M4yhem at all. I'm not defending HIM, I'm accusing his attacker. There's a big difference. I don't know about M4yhem's alignment, I have no suspicions about him, but I DO know that Thesp's attack has craplogic written all over it.

Also, Chamber, saying "I've played like this countless times, was lynched for it, and was townie" is just about the scummiest thing I can see anyone doing. It gives a GOOD excuse for scum to play like scum and assume they won't get nailed for it.

See, heres your problem, you're assuming there is one way all scum play again.

[kirbyphreak]

Im not just hammering m4yhem because i want a defense. My post is saying he'd better give us something good, like a roleclaim, or he's going down. Also, Thesp was merely saying his opinions. Many of us happen to agree, especially after seeing the three's reactions.