Mini 362 - Open Role Bastard Mafia (Game Over)

[ShadowLurker]

Im not just hammering m4yhem because i want a defense. My post is saying he'd better give us something good, like a roleclaim, or he's going down. Also, Thesp was merely saying his opinions. Many of us happen to agree, especially after seeing the three's reactions.

Passing it off ?

Unvote, Vote Kirbyphreak

[Zindaras]

First of all, I'm not defending M4yhem at all. I'm not defending HIM, I'm accusing his attacker. There's a big difference. I don't know about M4yhem's alignment, I have no suspicions about him, but I DO know that Thesp's attack has craplogic written all over it.

Notice how I feel ShadowLurker is scummier than you in his defense. Also, attacking the accuser is indirectly defending the defendant.

[ShadowLurker]

First of all, I'm not defending M4yhem at all. I'm not defending HIM, I'm accusing his attacker. There's a big difference. I don't know about M4yhem's alignment, I have no suspicions about him, but I DO know that Thesp's attack has craplogic written all over it.

Notice how I feel ShadowLurker is scummier than you in his defense. Also, attacking the accuser is indirectly defending the defendant.

Yes but there is a reason to attack the accuser if you feel the defendant hasn't done anything.


Also kirby: What exactly are you expecting out of M4yhem?

This is the biggest problem I have with the bandwagon. M4yhem has repeatedly asked Thesp for evidence and Thesp waved that post away saying it amounted to OMGUS. What the heck is M4yhem supposed to defend against if he doesn't know the accusations against him? I also don't like how we have tons of people who don't post at all, and then suddenly pop up to bandwagon. However, people are too hellbent on lynching M4yhem and following Thesp to care about M4yhem asking for reasoning, providing reasoning, or the lurkers.

I will NOT vote for M4yhem.

[Nai]

Attacking the accuser has nothign to do with defending the accused. I could feel that M4yhem is scum (I don't at this juncture) but attack the accuser if I think the accuser is likewise scum. And I seriously think that Thesp is scum at this point. He's not playing like town.

Chamber, there isn't one set way. But you're still playing like scum, and that's the big bit. You're playing scum tells.

[ShadowLurker]

I've looked through a lot of Chamber's past games and I've found games where he's acted like that both scum and town. I think all of his games follow that trait in fact.

So his lurking does not mean his scum but his lurking doesn't mean he's town either. The point is moot.

[Nai]

I wasn't talking about him lurking. I was talking about voting with no reasons given.

[Bogre]

FOS: Chamber

And I find that scummy.

I can point you to several ongoing games where I was lynched day 1 as town for people finding it scummy.

Then you need to play better. Right now you could be scum claiming your playstyle just gets you lynched a lot and makes you look scummy.

[Twomz]

What chamber's doing is exactly the same as what I normally do... it's almost as if we're the same person on different accounts. I don't think he's acting scummy at all... now... if it was day 3 or 4 and he was acting like this... then yes, i would think it scummy. But for Day 1, imo, what he's doing is not scummy (- the lurking, which is just rude).

Regardless of Mayhem's alignment... i'm probably going after Shadowlurker tomorrow... just a warning. I must also point out that Thesp may be throwing scumbuddies under the bus (if the people he's pointed out turn up scum), so he's actually more likely to go up on my scumlist if they turn up scum, than if they turn up townie.

Mayhem, can we get a claim plz?

[Zindaras]

Unvote

.

Don't want anyone to come around and cast the deciding vote before M4yhem claims. I'll revote depending on what happens.

[chamber]

Regardless of Mayhem's alignment... i'm probably going after Shadowlurker tomorrow... just a warning. I must also point out that Thesp may be throwing scumbuddies under the bus (if the people he's pointed out turn up scum), so he's actually more likely to go up on my scumlist if they turn up scum, than if they turn up townie.

And now you'll go up on my list if they turn up scum.

[ShadowLurker]

Regardless of Mayhem's alignment... i'm probably going after Shadowlurker tomorrow... just a warning.

"regardless of M4yhem's alignment"
"just a warning"

Are you joking?

[Zindaras]

That is one heck of a strange post from Twomz, and I do not like it at all.

[chamber]

That is one heck of a strange post from Twomz, and I do not like it at all.

*notes that even though zindaras had already posted once after twomz, he waits untill other say something to point out how werid twomz's post was*

[Pariah]

This is much better. No deadline.

Vote Count

M4yhem: (4)

Thesp, Fritzler, Chamber, Twomz

Chamber: (2)

M4yhem, Spectrumvoid

Kirbyphreak: (2)

Bogre, shadowlurker

themanhimself: (1)

kirbyphreak

Thesp: (1)

Nai

7 to lynch.

Feel free to correct me if I got that wrong, which I think I did.

Some of you need to start unvoting (even without names) with your votes. It really messed with my vote count and the only reason I took them since it had been long time since the last count. In the future, I will not accept votes that do not come with unvotes.

[themanhimself]

vote:kirbyphreak

For no longer having a legit voting reason.

[Thesp]

Passing it off ?

Unvote, Vote Kirbyphreak

More M4yhem defense!

M4yhem: I'm starting to see a bit of that self destructive scum when you defend yourself. You are throwing suspicions at EVERYONE. First Thesp is scum, then the follower bandwagoneers are scum, earlier in the game other people were scum, now chamber is scum. It's not like chamber suddenly started acting differently. (except for the actual posting)

This is fits the pattern perfectly of in-thread communication to a fellow scum member.

THIS POST SHOULD SET UP HUGE RED FLAGS FOR PEOPLE.

"The town always wants more information, the scum want to give the town as little information as possible."

Why would you hide your reasonings? What would motivate you to do that? What's the point of hiding your reasons for voting? There's no reason for it. Everyone benefits if you give your reasons, no one does if you just vote without reason.

I'm not convinced this is accurate. I think scum want the town to have the

wrong

information, not as little as possible. Scum wat a

misinformed

lynch, not a random one. Also, please see below.

That is one heck of a strange post from Twomz, and I do not like it at all.

QFT.

FOS: Twomz.

Granted, I still think ShadowLurker should be lynched, but this particular approach is very odd.

Then you need to play better.

How is that helpful? I'd like to redress this issue at the end of the game, there's plenty of mafia theory worth going over post-game.

And I seriously think that Thesp is scum at this point. He's not playing like town.

What

is

"playing like town"? Part of my mafia theory is looking at how town are more likely to act compared to how mafia are more lifely to act. Many things people say and do don't fit in either category, but some do. There's not a single way to "play like town", but there certainly are things town (or conversely scum) are more likely to do.

It's not uncommon, particularly when I'm a replacement, to come out guns blazing, sometimes inexplicably. It gets reactions and moves things. Someone made a comment this game as to how we should be careful because it's only been 12 pages at the time and Day 1. That's ridiculous. Scum need to die. (It's not inherently beneficial that long games are better for town, sometimes it gives scum who have slipped up the chance to regroup and confuse the town.) Things need to shake up, and I got awesome reactions. I'm happy with what's gone, and I'm very sold on M4yhem being scum, he confirmed my suspicions, even if I didn't articulate them to everyone immediately. He's been overly defensive and reacting in ways I would not expect town to do. We can go deeper into post-by-post analysis, and I'd be happy to bog everyone down in it if they think it'd be helpful, but I don't think it would be (I suspect it will go something like "I think you were trying to do this when you posted"/"No I wasn't").

Now can we get back to lynching M4yhem? Seriously, he's scum with ShadowLurker. Thanks.

[ShadowLurker]

Passing it off ?

Unvote, Vote Kirbyphreak

More M4yhem defense!

Nice misrepresentation by quoting that post out of context.

M4yhem: I'm starting to see a bit of that self destructive scum when you defend yourself. You are throwing suspicions at EVERYONE. First Thesp is scum, then the follower bandwagoneers are scum, earlier in the game other people were scum, now chamber is scum. It's not like chamber suddenly started acting differently. (except for the actual posting)

This is fits the pattern perfectly of in-thread communication to a fellow scum member.

THIS POST SHOULD SET UP HUGE RED FLAGS FOR PEOPLE.

Maybe becasue it was communication to a townie who's asked in many past posts what you meant by "self-destructing scum." Instead of explaining, you chose to ignore him and still did with that post, I decided to try to answer for you with what I think I meant so he could provide a defense and explain his motives. I don't see how learning motives of somebody is suspicious at all. It helps the whole town make better judgments.

[Thesp]

Passing it off ?

Unvote, Vote Kirbyphreak

More M4yhem defense!

Nice misrepresentation by quoting that post out of context.

When you put it in context, you are deflecting a potential bandwagon for M4yhem by attacking people that may consider getting on it. That's a subtle, devious defense if done by scum. You already know whether or not I think you fit into that category.

M4yhem: I'm starting to see a bit of that self destructive scum when you defend yourself. You are throwing suspicions at EVERYONE. First Thesp is scum, then the follower bandwagoneers are scum, earlier in the game other people were scum, now chamber is scum. It's not like chamber suddenly started acting differently. (except for the actual posting)

This is fits the pattern perfectly of in-thread communication to a fellow scum member.

THIS POST SHOULD SET UP HUGE RED FLAGS FOR PEOPLE.

Maybe becasue it was communication to a townie who's asked in many past posts what you meant by "self-destructing scum." Instead of explaining, you chose to ignore him and still did with that post, I decided to try to answer for you with what I think I meant so he could provide a defense and explain his motives. I don't see how learning motives of somebody is suspicious at all. It helps the whole town make better judgments.

How do you know if he's a townie?

Here's the thing: you're trying to give him an out to rationalize his motives. I think his motives are

already

clear. You are trying to set the stage for him, indicating to him what a better, safer response would be. This does not look like you are trying to find out what he's thinking,

you are trying to feed him what to tell us he's thinking

. This is big time scumalicious, and I've seen scum exhibit this behavior before.

[ShadowLurker]

Passing it off ?

Unvote, Vote Kirbyphreak

More M4yhem defense!

Nice misrepresentation by quoting that post out of context.

When you put it in context, you are deflecting a potential bandwagon for M4yhem by attacking people that may consider getting on it. That's a subtle, devious defense if done by scum. You already know whether or not I think you fit into that category.

I think "deflecting a potential bandwagon" would've been a good play a couple pages ago when you just pointed out your accusations. How the heck is doing that when M4yhem is at 4 votes with another threatening to vote and probably would've if he didn't think he was hammering deflecting a potential bandwagon? The bandwagon is already there, also, I have already said I think M4yhem is innocent. So naturally, I would be defending him, but I have already defended the case against him IMO and am looking at other options now. If I think M4yhem is innocent, someone else must obviously be scum in this game.

M4yhem: I'm starting to see a bit of that self destructive scum when you defend yourself. You are throwing suspicions at EVERYONE. First Thesp is scum, then the follower bandwagoneers are scum, earlier in the game other people were scum, now chamber is scum. It's not like chamber suddenly started acting differently. (except for the actual posting)

This is fits the pattern perfectly of in-thread communication to a fellow scum member.

THIS POST SHOULD SET UP HUGE RED FLAGS FOR PEOPLE.

Maybe becasue it was communication to a townie who's asked in many past posts what you meant by "self-destructing scum." Instead of explaining, you chose to ignore him and still did with that post, I decided to try to answer for you with what I think I meant so he could provide a defense and explain his motives. I don't see how learning motives of somebody is suspicious at all. It helps the whole town make better judgments.

How do you know if he's a townie?

Here's the thing: you're trying to give him an out to rationalize his motives. I think his motives are

already

clear. You are trying to set the stage for him, indicating to him what a better, safer response would be. This does not look like you are trying to find out what he's thinking,

you are trying to feed him what to tell us he's thinking

. This is big time scumalicious, and I've seen scum exhibit this behavior before.

I don't know if he's a townie for sure. But I believe his actions (and another players) have been a virtual echo of my thoughts many times.

And if you read my original post, I was not directing him into anything. If I was, it would've been like "I noticed you did X, why did you do that? Is it because Y? or Z?" All I did was explain the CASE against him to find out his motives. I would like you to point out what safe responses I was goading him into or any evidence of feeding.

[Nai]

What do I think is Scummy/Townie behavior?

Voting without giving any accusations

: Scum.

Continuing not to give accusations after they are requested

: Scum

Defending self, but STILL not giving accusations

: Scum

Saying someone is scum for asking for information

: Scum

Letting the town know what you are thinking, and sharing information with the town

: Townie.

[Thesp]

What do I think is Scummy/Townie behavior?

I'm not sure your list is consistent with how scum and town actually act. If you have seen this in the past, then so be it, but it's not consistent with my past experience of how scum and townies tend to act.

[Nai]

It really is, in my experience.

[Thesp]

Okay.

[Twomz]

Reasons I think people are scummy...

DEFLECTING bandwagons: Scum probably won't blatantly defend a teammate... but, more often than not, they will try to present a "better" alternative to take some of the flak off their teammates wagon.

Saying you're suspicious of several players, then voting for another: X is scummy because ____, Y is scummy because ____, but, i think i'll vote Z for now. (Of X, Y, and Z, there's a good chance that one is scum, and very low possiblity that all are scum) 3 is the most common number of this, so far as i've seen.

Pushing for a wagon w/o joining it: When going over the vote records, they're typically looked over, which is slightly safer. Major scumtell imo.

Lurking: NOT a scum tell. But, very antitown behaviour, and lurkers should be replaced unless they stop lurking. (usually, best way to get them to stop lurking is to wagon them... then if they still don't respond get them replaced)

Changing opinions on a player w/o any real reason: At beginning of day, says X is scummy and should be lynched... then towards the end of the day starts saying that he's obviously protown... and there's no reason to lynch him. (scum trying to save another scum, usually)

Directing the Doc/cop: If you're town, try not to do it. ESPECIALLY don't say "protect me" or "inspect me" or w/e. Asking the doc to protect the claimed cop is alright as long as the person asking isn't the claimed cop. Requesting that the person w/ the second most votes is investigated is usually ok... but is probably not necessary, unless the cop as been outed.

Directing the vig: Actually, ths should be ok, as long as it's town consensus (2nd lynch if you will).

Staying off the radar: People who are just trying to slip by to the endgame are usually scum.

"Just give me one day" or "you can always kill me tomorrow": If a person is trying harder to survive than point out who's scum... there's probably a reason for it.

That's all i can really think of, but i'm sure there's more... I know the question wasn't really directed towards me... but i want everyone to know how i stand on scumminess.

[chamber]

Reasons I find people scummy:
using logic
posting reasons
asking for reasons