Open 452i - Open Space

[AngryPidgeon]

Nothing I said was wifom. Im targeting you.

Disturbed can flip w/e.

[Declan_giggs]

Is this your first time claiming hider? You could put a little effort in to it

[havingfitz]

Declan...do I detect sarcasm in line one of your Post 924? It doesn't become you. What dicking about am I doing that smells bad? What have I done that seems to confuse you? Are you uncertain of who my preferred lynch was today? Does the fact that my scum read on Disturb isn't as strong as other's read on him bother you? What is your problem? I do not see what the problem is with waiting a day or two past the weekend. Why get so worked up about it. All you had to do is say you read him and your mind was made and that you didn't feel the need for any more discussion. If you hammered scum it won't be an issue.

[Declan_giggs]

Sarcasm. Frustration. Whatever. We have been over the notion that your vote on....whoever, has any substance. I haven't heard a passionate defense of disturbed out of you just some muttering he miiiiiiggght be scum. Who we now hammered to quick. Despite him being at l-1 for days and days.

I won't argue the semantics of whether this is a long weekend but come off it. I said a couple hundred posts ago that the lynch today was a 2 horse race and no one really disputed that. Everyone stayed right on disturbed. I preferred nova strategically but I believe both are seen as good lynches because both are probably scum.

And now I'm aggravated with ap because he's going to get me n k'd and resolve nothing for the town and he's being vague...he's had plenty of time to think about his role and the best he can do is assume this is a mislynch and target me then when pressed put no more thought in just reblurt that I'm the target.

He probably is the hider but his play has been dreadful. Not just hider wise either.

[Lastsurvivor]

Regarding LS and Dragon posts 903 and 904 above. You both seemed to have noticed how incredibly lame Venmar's exchange/case on me is being played out by him. Does that affect your opinion of him and is he vote-worthy?

Yes and yes.

Ya, like NU opened by calling people unbearable and calling them good votes. LS jumped on that and asked NU why he said unbearable. Then he said that he was trying to be discreet about his NU pressure (to say hes trying to reaction test him and didn't want to give away what he was looking for). But then he flat out makes it known to NU what his grievance was with his post (Do you mean scummy when you say unbearable or just unbearable). It was a semi-legit point that LS was making, but he basically said he was reaction testing NU and being vague on purpose and then decided to basically drop his case and let NU know what was up when someone (director?) called him out on being vague.

I don't get how this makes me scum. I "flat out made it known to NU what my grievance was" because he didn't react to my reaction test at all. There's no point in being intentionally vague if he's not going to take the bait.

[AngryPidgeon]

Again I come back and there are like four pages.

VOTE: Name User

Serious vote.

Again I come back and there are like four pages.

VOTE: Name User

Serious vote.

You do realize that serious voting started about 8 pages ago, right?

I'm afraid I'm not understanding you. If you're inferring that my vote is not serious, then you're wrong. If you're saying I'm late to the party, I fail to see how that's relevant.

Name User - unbearable = scum? Or just unbearable? If the former, your word choice is suspect.

Because I'm being intentionally vague as to the reason.

Look at the time stamps on these posts. LS, you did not, under any remote stretching of the truth, give NameUser a chance to respond to your pressure vote before basically explaining why you were voting him. And now you are telling us that you did and that his lack of response is what made you explain your 'serious vote'. Admittedly, my timeline of the events in my previous post was a little of because I was doing it from memory, but really? You didn't even call me on that.

And someone look at the quoted LS posts and tell me that he was reaction testing NU. He wasn't.

[AngryPidgeon]

You gave him an easy out in post 101 by saying "If the former, your word choice is suspect". So then why would he not just say "Oh ya, thats what I meant." And this whole transaction is so shady, it makes me doubt my NU read. But LS should absolutely go first.

[Name User]

Honestly, Venmar is still prob-town. The fact he made a post w/o unvoting me after my claim is a towntell IMO.

I thin k Im still happy with my vote. Not much time left. I may be willing to compromise on Dragon or Fitz for deadline related reasons.

Every time I start to think LS is town, he posts something scummy.

Specifically what? #904?

I actually think Last survivor might be the best vote right now. I can't find a singleb town looking post on his iso.

But since you didn't point to any examples of scum looking posts, I'm assuming you can't find any of those either. I will wait diligently for you to prove me wrong.

Me too.
---------------

Ven is still too hard to tell. While he has mostly voted townies (Om, AP, Director, Me... Especially me), 'unknowingly' dropped the hammer on me, and has been spewing some pretty lame stuff lately... His style and reasoning have actually seemed town oriented. I have a lean toward scum, but it isn't very strong, say 60-40.

Town oriented? How?

Ya, like NU opened by calling people unbearable and calling them good votes.

VOTE: MattP
Unbearable, as well as Aether and Nom.

Where do I call anything a good vote?

DECLAN ANSWER MY QUESTION PLEASE

[Name User]

Also I'm surprised AP told us who he's going to hide behind. Newb question: Is this common practice?

[AngryPidgeon]

NU, were you not calling Mattp and the other unbearables by
1. Mentioning only them in your opening post
2. Voting one of them with no other reason provided

Why did you feel the need to respond to me pointing it out?
Read on last survivor and giggs?

[AngryPidgeon]

Callinf them good votes**

[NovaDragon]

I agree with giggs; I think hiding behind him would be a poor choice. If Disturbed is town, then you may have reason to hide behind him. Even so, his hammer was at least considered and not just accidental. No one has a good town read on Disturbed anyway, so he probably would have been lynched anyway. If Disturbed ends up scum, then we're good anyway... I guess my point is that his hammer does not seem damning to him, but hiding behind him IS damning (esp. if he's town).

[NovaDragon]

Oh that's right. Venmar's YOLO gives him another +10 to scum.

[Declan_giggs]

Honestly, Venmar is still prob-town. The fact he made a post w/o unvoting me after my claim is a towntell IMO.

I thin k Im still happy with my vote. Not much time left. I may be willing to compromise on Dragon or Fitz for deadline related reasons.

Every time I start to think LS is town, he posts something scummy.

Specifically what? #904?

I actually think Last survivor might be the best vote right now. I can't find a singleb town looking post on his iso.

But since you didn't point to any examples of scum looking posts, I'm assuming you can't find any of those either. I will wait diligently for you to prove me wrong.

Me too.
---------------

Ven is still too hard to tell. While he has mostly voted townies (Om, AP, Director, Me... Especially me), 'unknowingly' dropped the hammer on me, and has been spewing some pretty lame stuff lately... His style and reasoning have actually seemed town oriented. I have a lean toward scum, but it isn't very strong, say 60-40.

Town oriented? How?

Ya, like NU opened by calling people unbearable and calling them good votes.

VOTE: MattP
Unbearable, as well as Aether and Nom.

Where do I call anything a good vote?

DECLAN ANSWER MY QUESTION PLEASE

i dont see one dircted at me. Is it in a different post?

[Declan_giggs]

Also I'm surprised AP told us who he's going to hide behind. Newb question: Is this common practice?

I dont know about common, but its not ideal. Well, unless he is convinced I'm scum.

By revealing his target, he gets us both nk'd. This is a shitty way to establish our bonafides. If he hides elsewhere, if I get nkd and he doesnt, he causes credibility issues for himself.

If he wants to be a sacrificial lamb, hiding behind strongly suspected scum and announcing it is ok so we know who to lynch tomorrow.

Then you have to factor in scoreboard. If I hammered a mislynch, the town can ill afford losing a two for one. It really cant even afford to lose two tonight if AP announces his hide and hits scum. Right now its 7-3. If d1 flips town its 6-3. If AP goes down tonight and the nk is successful, its LYLO tomorrow.

Like I said, poor play by the hider claimer but that goes with IM RIGHT BCUZ CAPS style of play.

[AngryPidgeon]

Well, you are dead. Either you get NK'd tonight (not actually happening) or you are getting lynched because you are guilty.

Om will likely die tonight, which sucks, but hopefully there will only be 1 unconfirmed scum left.

[Lastsurvivor]

Look at the time stamps on these posts. LS, you did not, under any remote stretching of the truth, give NameUser a chance to respond to your pressure vote before basically explaining why you were voting him. And now you are telling us that you did and that his lack of response is what made you explain your 'serious vote'. Admittedly, my timeline of the events in my previous post was a little of because I was doing it from memory, but really? You didn't even call me on that.

And someone look at the quoted LS posts and tell me that he was reaction testing NU. He wasn't.

Umwhat

Let's create a timeline that includes NU's post!

Again I come back and there are like four pages.

VOTE: Name User

Serious vote.

So much damn fluff.

Add AngryPidgeon to the list of unbearability.
Any of those four, please.

[/unvote]Matt[/unvote]
VOTE: Om

Damn tags.

Again I come back and there are like four pages.

VOTE: Name User

Serious vote.

You do realize that serious voting started about 8 pages ago, right?

I'm afraid I'm not understanding you. If you're inferring that my vote is not serious, then you're wrong. If you're saying I'm late to the party, I fail to see how that's relevant.

Name User - unbearable = scum? Or just unbearable? If the former, your word choice is suspect.

I'm kinda curious as to why you had to make the distinction that you were making a serious vote.

Because I'm being intentionally vague as to the reason.

What do you think of AngryPidgeon, The Director?

By "unbearable" I mean that all that is being posted by them is random shit, nothing that will help us and only clogs up the thread.
Doesn't mean scummy, just anti-town, and irritating.

Scum would want to encourage pointless talk, so in a way it is kind of scummy, but I'd be surprised if Aether and MattP are scum again.
But Aether literally told us he was going to play as Village Idiot, regardless of alignment, and we've heard MattP's style of gameplay,

as for Om and Pidgeon, who could be scum, they're posting a lot and not contributing anything, there was a wagon on Nom when I came in so I took it.

Now as you can see, he did post in between my pressure vote and my questions. Twice, actually.

Was it a bit silly of me to say "I'm being vague hur dur"? Yeah probably, since the reason was pretty clear. But I wanted to see if NU would take the bait and I didn't feel like dealing with the director.

[Lastsurvivor]

You gave him an easy out in post 101 by saying "If the former, your word choice is suspect". So then why would he not just say "Oh ya, thats what I meant." And this whole transaction is so shady, it makes me doubt my NU read. But LS should absolutely go first.

Alright...so why does that make me scum? Why would I be motivated to ask an easy question like that?

You can point to plenty of actions and say "Omg why did you do that that was so dumb," but if you're not going to explain the scum motivation, then it doesn't give anyone anything good to work with.

You still haven't explained why giving up on a reaction test and asking NU questions makes me scum either.

[AngryPidgeon]

Why would I be motivated to ask an easy question like that?

Because you wouldn't as town. What was the point of telling him how to get out of your question if you really think he may be scum?

Scum motivation is a myth. There is only town perspectives and lacks thereof. Feel free to quote me on that one.

[AngryPidgeon]

Read on disturbed and Giggs?

[Lastsurvivor]

Because you wouldn't as town. What was the point of telling him how to get out of your question if you really think he may be scum?

Well obviously I wasn't consciously thinking "Hmm, I'll just let NU get out of this one easy and tell him which option will be the one that will make him look better." I just wrote the last bit without thinking. Everyone makes mistakes etc.

Disturbed is scum. Giggs is town, but that read will probably change if Disturbed doesn't flip how I think he will (i.e., if he flips town).

[Name User]

I'm not sure what to say about Lastsurvivor's question to me, other than I thought it was rhetorical.

NU, were you not calling Mattp and the other unbearables by
1. Mentioning only them in your opening post
2. Voting one of them with no other reason provided

Why did you feel the need to respond to me pointing it out?
Read on last survivor and giggs?

Because you were putting words in my mouth. Yes I said they were unbearable, but this was basically an RV, iirc the first 4 pages were full of useless crap by the time I got here.
Last Survivor: Null. Haven't really been paying much attention to him. (By the way, LS, I thought your avatar was a chair until I looked closely at it. )
Giggs: Town. It's a weak read, because I did think he was scum for a significant amount of time, he's not in any way cleared, but that's my opinion at this moment.

Callinf them good votes**

I didn't do that.

i dont see one dircted at me. Is it in a different post?

Please respond to my vote on you.

Well, you are dead. Either you get NK'd tonight (not actually happening) or you are getting lynched because you are guilty.

Om will likely die tonight, which sucks, but hopefully there will only be 1 unconfirmed scum left.

Why do you think Declan won't get killed and Om will?

[Name User]

We're in twilight right? Where's Techno?

[Declan_giggs]

You seemed to be egging me on with the hider logic thats all. I didnt mean you wanted me to claim that moment. Maybe you were hoping i was newbscum and if i got to L-1 id fake claim hider. Maybe you were hoping (at the time i thought you were scum setting up a fake claim of your own) that id leap in with a cc when you claimed. I am a newb to this site so maybe you thought id blunder into all sorts of stupid shit. Believe me, ive seen all kinds of ill advised gambits. Where i used to play was much more about tactical maneuvers with the power roles than here where people like to twist around in wifom. That more or less accounts for why i had so much strategery about the role in the first place.

If you are hiding behind fitz tonight, that will help sort out nova tomorrow, since fitz scum means for sure nova scum.

So we are voting disturbed then? Theres been a lot of other speculation but nd and d1 still seem most likely to get full backing.

Pedit not gonna vote until i see a vote count and get some sense of consensus. Not at all reluctant to hammer d1 will iso him and read back to ap's case to confirm this feeling in the meanwhile.

Fitz vote above is the first thing thats rung my scumdar about him. Why bother with a venmar vote right now? Thats not going anywhere. What a sleazey or useless vote. Pick one.

You mean when i did answer it?

[Declan_giggs]

He thinks Om will die tonight as conftown. This is stupid thinking. The scum will go for the 241 tonight since AP has declared his target.

If disturbed flips town, if there are two deaths tonight we are at lylo tomorrow. So the hider needs to hide, not declare his intent to be a half assed investigator. Even if the hider reveals a scum, you are only holding off lylo one day. A townie dies night 3 in this scenario FOR SURE. Back at lylo day 4.

If disturbed flips scum, the numbers are better but the hider should clear up a scum read but a weak one. If disturbed is scum, we are ahead 7-2. If AP was playing it cool he could not say where he was hiding, and the scum probably WOULD go for Om. That would give us still two conf town tomorrow (ap, new target) with likely lynchables as me, nova, and... aether would probably get himself back in the mix.

Basically, AP fucked up when he was at L-2, but he has been DYING to claim all day. Now, he is DYING to die tonight and take a townie with him. And this is different than his fitz thing because there we have a tie to nova to also work out. If he des behind fitz due to fitz being scum, we have nova nailed too as there s no way scum fitz saved a townie on a technicality.

It wouldnt matter who dropped the hammer that AP

begged for

. Today is all about him and thats all that matters.