Android: Netrunner: The Living Card Game

hitogoroshi · Post Post #0 (isolation #0) » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:41 pm

Hey guys. Let's talk about

Android: Netrunner.

Netrunner was an old CCG developed by Richard Garfield, who designed Magic. Garfield actually said he preferred Netrunner to Magic, but Netrunner came out in that dark time of Too Many God Damn CCGs and it bubbled into obscurity.

But now there's a living card game reboot of Netrunner called Android: Netrunner. So, a game that used to cost quite a bit (CCG price model coupled with rarity) is now way cheaper and has players again. This is a good thing.

Let me talk about some of the rad things in Netrunner.

Asymmetrical sides:
This is the really big, really cool one. Netrunner games have two players: a corporation and a runner. They have completely different cards and rules. The Corporation is trying to "advance" agendas by playing them on the field and using actions to place a number of tokens on them. If they do, they get some powerful effect from the agenda. The runner is trying to steal agendas. They can hit them on the field, or in the corps hand, deck, or discard. If they find an agenda, they score it immediately - no actions required. But, they don't get any effect. First to 7 points wins. The Corp tries to stop the Runner getting agendas by playing ICE that impedes their progress. The runner plays Icebreaker programs to get through the ICE. The corp can also be decked. The runner can also be killed. It's two completely different experiences. Tournament play of Netrunner is two players facing off, and then switching sides and playing again.

More open, less algorithmic play:
Okay, let me poke the hornets nest a bit. Magic: the Gathering has a lot of skill in play, not just deckbuilding. Yes. This is true. Can I say whether Netrunner has "more" or "less"? Not really, that's a weird question. But, I think it's very fair to say Netrunner is less algorithmic: that is, that if you were to program a robot to play your Magic deck and program a robot to play your Netrunner deck, it would take a lot more code for the Netrunner robot than the Magic robot. That's because a lot of skilled play in Magic is just playing your deck with the one formula that you "baked" in to it (to be clear, programming a robot to play ALL magic decks would take infinity billion more lines of code than programming a robot to play ALL Netrunner decks, even both sides.) Netrunner is different, because your turn is spending clicks (3 clicks for corp, 4 clicks for runner.) You can spend a click to take a credit (analogue to mana.) You can spend a click to draw a card. You can spend a click to play an event. You can spend a click to install a card that'll be around forever. You have a lot more options at any decision-node than most card games, and "what to do" expands out exponentially. It's pretty rad!

Identities and Influence:
The deck-building is something FFG changed from the original Netrunner, but I like the change. You play with an "Identity card" that gives you 3 things. The first is a special power that is in play all game. That alone makes decks feel very different. The second is minimum deck limit, which has very interesting implications for deckbuilding. The third is the coolest one though - influence. There are different factions that are like MtG's colors. You can have as many cards as you want from your color and from the neutral cards (aside from very rare Neutral cards with influence costs that EVERYONE has to pay influence to include - currently, the only one is The Source . From the other colors, you can only have your influence worth of cards. Cards have influence values from 1 to 5. So, you know mostly what to expect based on the faction of the opponent - but the out-faction cards could be ANYTHING, because there's no problem of getting the "right mana" or anything. Out-faction cards are used at full effectiveness.

It's cheap:
Netrunner is a living card game. No booster packs. Pay about $30 for the core set on amazon, $15 for each non-random expansion. That's it. That's the whole cost. (The one exception is the core set itself - because FFG wanted to have a viable deck's worth of cards for each faction, they couldn't print every core card x3. If you get in to serious tournament play for Netrunner, you'll want 2 cores. It's still way cheaper than magic. :p) The online client for it, OCTGN, is free and pretty good. Horray for money.

So, hopefully you are interested. If you are, here are some resources:

Learning About Netrunner

Playing Online

You need to download the OCTGN client. You can do so here.

Then, when you're in, go to the game manager and install the follow feed: https://www.myget.org/f/octgngamedirectory

Don't open that in browser, it'll just be XML code. Just install that feed. Then, you'll get a list of games to install. Choose Android: Netrunner.

After that, close OCTGN and use this tool to update the card images from the proxies.

You do NOT need to update anything manually when new sets come out, now - you used to have to, and it stunk. All you'll need to do is re-run the image tool once per set.

Deckbuilding

The gold standard for making Netrunner decks is Meteor decks. Awesome, robust interface, saves the decks for later, easy to link, tracks changes...it's great.

However, sometimes Meteor goes down or lags in adding new sets. Less so than it used to, but as a backup, there's Cardgamedb. They were very recently purchased by Fantasy Flight so it might get better - right now I mostly like it when Meteor's down. It's a little more clunky to use, but serviceable.

Finally, OCTGN also has an internal editor. It's a nightmare to use to make a whole deck, but it's the quickest way to just change 1-2 cards, especially if you know the exact change you want to make.

I love this game and want to play it with you lovely people.

hitogoroshi · Post Post #1 (isolation #1) » Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:34 pm

So, the deck builder website bugged out and would save the "text" files as deck files. That's finally fixed, so I'm working on the deck pack now. (You don't need a text file to load it with OCTGN, but the idea is if you have a text version of a deck that you play and enjoy, you can make a slightly modified version of it on your own.)

Let me know if you want to play any Netrunner over the next two days. I'm free to do teaching games and I'll be able to provide install help, interface help, and (soon) the deck pack.

hitogoroshi · Post Post #3 (isolation #2) » Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:53 pm

Oh, for fucks sake...the save as text thing bugged out again.

I'ma use this post to have a place to hide my drafts of the deck stuff. Ignore the decks here, I'll post a prettier version of the deck pack when it's done.

Spoiler: Where I'm leaving deck stuff

hitogoroshi · Post Post #8 (isolation #3) » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:21 am

In post 5, Sudo_Nym wrote:Which leads me to the actual question: How similar is this to the original?

Very. Quite a few cards are direct reprints.

Off the top of my head, the major changes are...

Traces are different. Now, the corp takes the base trace amount and adds some number of credits. THEN, the runner takes their base Link and adds some number of credits. If runner ties, the trace doesn't go off - otherwise it does. However, there's no cap to what the corp can add for the trace. (Blind bidding is in the game with other effects, but much more subdued. See Jinteki's Snowflake.)
The Identity cards are also major. Let it suffice to say A:NR decks will be much less samey than default Netrunner. Totally awesome change.
No weird "things happening between turns" anymore. If the Corp wants to play the 3 clicks for Melange Mining Corp, they have to spend their whole turn to do it.

Note I've never played original Netrunner myself, but I've read about it, and those are the big ones if I recall correctly.

hitogoroshi · Post Post #11 (isolation #4) » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:42 am

Yeah. A 45 card corp deck needs 20-21 agenda points, BUT it's the range 45-49 that needs it.

This is why, while most runner decks are just minimum deck size (For the same reason as most card games) Corp decks usually go to 49, so that the agenda:card ratio is lower. Generally the only 45 card corp decks I see are fast-advance or tag-and-bag decks that require comboing cards - in that case, a more consistent draw is sometimes worth a higher agenda:card ratio.

hitogoroshi · Post Post #14 (isolation #5) » Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:03 pm

I just finished grocery shopping; I'll hop on to aim and skype to troubleshoot.

EDIT: Should be good. Anyone who wants to get in on this, please IM me before you install. I threw together a little kit to make it easier.

hitogoroshi · Post Post #17 (isolation #6) » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:24 pm

Deck Set is live!

I can't promise these are all good decks, or that they're all equally strong. But they're better than the default decks, and they show a decent range of the playstyles in Netrunner (for corps, standard, high-bluff, fast advance, and bag and tag - for runners, there's standard, tactical run-focused, virus.)

When my hand is less crampy I can post a basic strategy guide for each. For now all of the deck lists are in the draft spoiler earlier up the page (except for NBN, that one got left out I guess.)

hitogoroshi · Post Post #19 (isolation #7) » Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:18 pm

Gonna just throw something I posted elsewhere in thread:

Anarchs:
Anarchs are all about aggression. They can destroy your ICE with Parasite, they can get huge rewards for attacking R+D over and over with Medium, and perhaps most frightening, their Data Suckers mean that every time they get in it's easier to get in again. Their icebreakers are all about efficiency, boasting relatively high strength and cheap subroutine breaking (including the only "pay 0 to break a subroutine" card in the game). When you play Anarchs, you can attack over and over for cheap and get awesome benefits whenever you do. The big problem with Anarchs, though, is robustness. They have the worse economy of the runner factions (with Whizzard being better than Noise but still far below the others.) They don't have much link. Most of their icebreakers do not HAVE the ability to increase their strength. So as an Anarch, you're fragile, and when you get knocked down, you get knocked down HARD. You're a nightmare as you keep running and feeding your datasuckers - but if they virus scan, you may suddenly be looking at four severs you literally cannot run. (Virus scan is another thing to point out - it's far more of a threat to Anarchs than anyone else.) There's something terrifying about being both the runner who's easiest to TAG and the runner who's hurt the most by Closed Accounts. Playing Anarchs is like having two brass knuckles and no nut cup. When you punch someone with brass knuckles, it'll hurt a bunch, and when your hand gets tired you can switch to the other brass knuckle. But whatever you do, don't get kicked in the nuts. As an Anarch, be aggressive as often as possible and try to roll unstoppable advantage. Splash things that let you bounce back from disaster and keep right on swinging: money cards, tag avoidance/link, and tools to deal with very strong ice are good options.

Criminals:
Criminals are all about surprise. They have far more things relating to runs than anyone else. They can do runs that bypass the first ICE, runs that treat Archives like HQ, runs that siphon your money, a resource that gives them money when they run a remote. Criminals love to run. At first this might sound like Anarchs. Well, part of that is because all runners love to run, otherwise they'd be bakers or whatever. Here's the difference between Anarchs and Criminals, though. The corps defend themselves against all possible assualts. Anarchs say "If I just keep hitting him eventually his armor will break." Criminals say "I'll find his weakest spot and do something that really hurts him there." Criminals have amazing economy and tons of flexibility. They have tricks for every situation. Wow, Criminals sound like clearly the best. What's the catch? Well, let's put it this way: there's a reason the Criminal knows about every back door in your system, and it's because they can't get in the front door to save their life. Criminal icebreakers take a ton of money to pump up. They don't have the strong attacks like Stimhack or the recurring credits for icebreakers like Toolbox. The best play against Criminals is to just play it straight without any subtlety. Criminals are good at a lot of things, but put agendas behind big fuckin things and their lives become sad. Criminals having all the in-faction infiltration shows this well: they can find out exactly what you're up to and punish your weak points, but it doesn't make them any better at hitting your STRONG points. As a Criminal, build up a bankroll and always look for a weakness to exploit. Splash more efficient icebreakers and cards that let you perform heroic feats in emergencies like Stimhack.

Shapers:
Shapers are all about investment. Let's continue the armor analogy. The corps build up their suit of armor, right? And the Anarch says, "I'm going to punch your armor with my bare fists until it breaks", which is really good if it works but if his knuckles break first he's basicially fucked. And the Criminal says, "I'm going to figure out exactly where your armor is weakest and stab you RIGHT THERE", which is really good if you just need to stab the corp until they bleed to death but not if you need to specifically stab his heart, where the armor is thickest, right this second. But the Shaper? The Shaper says "I'm going to invent guns, and then invent armor piercing bullets, and then I'm going to shoot you with armor piercing bullets from my gun." And yeah, they might kill you before you invent guns - but if you do, well, suddenly that suit of armor is target practice. Shapers have icebreakers that usually keep their strength upgrades until the end of the run, so any ice after 3 they add to their fort is less and less likely to really impede you. You get recurring credits with Toolbox, a lot of link that lets you be cavalier in the face of traces, cards like modded that make inventing guns go by a little faster. Man, inventing guns! Why play anyone else when you could invent guns? The problem with Shapers is that it's hard to surprise the corp. You are very straightforwardly strong and it's hard for the threats they have on the table to matter. But the corp has a VERY good idea what you're capable of. In essence, while Shapers are easily the strongest with what they get out on the table, they don't really get much stronger than THAT. So you're like a final boss in a video game to the corp. Your attacks are super bullshit and maybe they'll wipe, yeah, but they probably have a pretty good idea of your attack patterns. So they have the very clear advantage in the information war (corp always has this, but corp vs. shaper is the most transparent.) Your goal is to make it so that winning the information war only tells them "I know I am going to lose." As a Shaper, your rig is your baby. Build it up. Eventually every click you spend will be so powerful and valuable that they can't stop you, so don't stress if they do well early, because eventually you'll invent guns. As for what to splash: surprises! Shapers I think more than anyone have no excuse not to cap influence. Events like Forged Activation Orders or Inside Job, programs like Medium or Imp - you get the idea. Have the ability to sudden present a threat you weren't presenting before.

hitogoroshi · Post Post #23 (isolation #8) » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:58 am

Timeater, I'm gonna be in and out all day, but maybe you can catch me on AIM.

The second OCTGN tournament is taking signups. I'm definitely going to play my Criminal deck, not sure on Corp. I'm really enjoying my NBN deck but I'm worried about how bad it'll fare vs. Shapers.

hitogoroshi · Post Post #26 (isolation #9) » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:07 am

Oh yeah. It's just that I made a little kit that makes the install go a little quicker. I can't just link it in the thread for weird reasons, but I think it's pretty useful even if you know what you're doing.

Myko: Yeah, link strength isn't all. I'm talking about my deck specifically. It's sort of a tag focused and fast-advance hybrid. I'm running 3x Big Brother, Pyschographics, SEA Source, Closed Accounts. The tag elements really give it bite - highlights include SEA source into trashing a just-played Liberated Account - but I'm relying on just the fast advance elements for anti-shaper. And they're kind of there - San San, Astroscript, Red Herrings, and the aforementioned Pyschographics - but I'm not sure if they're enough. I'm not finding very many shapers on OCTGN, oddly enough.

If I can meet them and the deck performs satisfactorily, I'm running it for sure. This deck is fun as shit. It's just a potential blind spot that I haven't really gotten to explore. Otherwise I might go for my backup idea of an NBN fast advance that is less on tags and more on Weyland ICE + Trick of Light.

hitogoroshi · Post Post #28 (isolation #10) » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:19 am

Oh, sorry, when I say Weyland ICE I mean specifically Ice Wall and Shadow. You use them as batteries to Trick of Light fast-advance. It's a gimmick I might try if this current deck doesn't pan out.

hitogoroshi · Post Post #31 (isolation #11) » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:35 am

When I first looked at Big Brother, I thought it was sorta gimmicky too. Remember it works really well with Breaking News, though.

(EDIT: Although 3x was too much. I'm testing the NBN deck tuned for all of the anti-tag shit at 2x to fit in some other toys.)

This is draft 2 of my NBN fast advance/tag punishment deck. Currently 1-0 but that was against an Anarch counting on his ability to suddenly burst without consistent icebreakers (i.e, a play style that is utterly stopped cold by fast advance.) The test will be when I find 3x Rabbit Hole shapers and Decoy/Crash Space criminals.

Deck Created with CardGameDB.com Android: Netrunner Deck Builder

Identity:
NBN: Making News (Core)

Total Cards: (49)

Agenda: (11)
AstroScript Pilot Program (Core) x3
Breaking News (Core) x3
Restructured Datapool (What Lies Ahead) x2
Private Security Force (Core) x3

Asset: (4)
Melange Mining Corp (Core) x2
Adonis Campaign (Core) x2

ICE: (19)
Tollbooth (Core) x3
Data Raven (Core) x3
TMI (What Lies Ahead) x3
Wall of Static (Core) x3
Enigma (Core) x2
Draco (What Lies Ahead) x1
Rototurret (Core) x2
Caduceus (What Lies Ahead) x2

Operation: (11)
Closed Accounts (Core) x2
Big Brother (Trace Amount) x2
Psychographics (Core) x2
Hedge Fund (Core) x3
SEA Source (Core) x2

Upgrade: (4)
SanSan City Grid (Core) x2
Red Herrings (Core) x2

Total Agenda Points: 21

Influence Values Totals -
Haas-Bioroid: 6
Jinteki: 0
NBN: 39
The Weyland Consortium: 4

hitogoroshi · Post Post #33 (isolation #12) » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:31 am

They're kind of different animals. Melange is just, you need it to win. Every corp deck should start by you adding 3x Hedge Fund and 2x Melange. I usually like the third Melange, as well - it's a reluctant cut here because I don't really have the ice for many remotes and my deck is trying to do so much at once. Melange is an amazing card, because if you open it and the runner doesn't get a way to break the ice in front of it, you can basicially just win.

PAD is different. It's less about the money and more about costing 4 to trash. 4 is a lot. a lot of time, people play PAD campaigns not behind ice. If the runner takes it down, hey, they lost four creds. And if not, free creds. Note that you shouldn't do this against Criminals (they'll just Bank Job it). And the Whizzard identity is basicially built around stopping this (Anarchs are the poorest and have the hardest time justifying the money to trash PAD, unless they Imp it.) But in general, it's a useful thing just because it's annoying to trash.

Basically, it's not a choice between them. You always do Melange. Then you might take PAD because it's so hard to deal with. I like it a lot as Jinteki. H-B has Adonis which is a fair bit better in my view. (This is why I have Adonis in my deck - with all of the tagging I'm doing, I'm not even using all of my influence, so I can afford the upgrade. I'm probably going to splash a bit more OOF ICE as well.)

hitogoroshi · Post Post #36 (isolation #13) » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:42 am

The Netrunner creed: Credits are everything. Install early, run often.

The thing is, when you play a piece of ICE, you're really just buying an option - the option that, the next turn someone runs on the server, you can pay to have a piece of ICE there. You're not buying the ICE itself.

In the beginning of the game, the runner can be very cavalier taking "free runs" with no programs, but they can't get through ETR without breakers. This is a stupendous time to have a Melange be relatively safe. There are some counters, like Inside Job, but not many. If you can grab 14,21 credits from that Melange, you are in an infinitely better spot. It also helps later on. You have a bunch of ice-promises down, but you often can't afford to rez them all. With Melange, you can just sit there and ping Melange and rez ICE. Without it, credit gen is painfully slow, and when you rez one piece of ICE it often means that the facedown ice elsewhere is now an empty threat the runner can walk right over.

hitogoroshi · Post Post #39 (isolation #14) » Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:18 am

I wrote an article about the best 3 cards in Netrunner. You should read it!

hitogoroshi · Post Post #42 (isolation #15) » Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:17 am

Yeah there are some good new resources, and more importantly, installing the game is 100% easier than it used to be and I don't need to give out the starter kit any more

give me a bit and I'll make the thread shiny and new

hitogoroshi · Post Post #48 (isolation #16) » Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:34 pm

In post 45, mykonian wrote: There's some kind of online league going, and although I haven't played enough to get a honest result yet (pretty sure it's not going to stay just a 1-3 record, seen the way I got beaten), hito has 12 results and is on a very respectable 20th place out of over hundred participants.

I was actually top of the league at one point. Sadly, this is a really ugly time in the meta for me - my NBN: TWIY* rush deck WAS really excellent, but Atman and Self-Modifying Code have completely neutered it. I'm just feverishly waiting for Opening Moves to hit OCTGN so I can run and audible into a new Corp deck, train with it, then play a bunch more league games. This is a really, REALLY bad time for blitz decks. Luckily, Jackson Howard will be insane so I can stay in NBN, just have to go back to Making News.

In post 46, TheButtonmen wrote:I'm admittedly still pretty new to this but I've yet to really run into a reason why to not use my 15 influencet to ensure I have x3 Diesel & x3 Inside Job in every runner deck.

Am I missing something or is Inside Job insane and Diesel is solid in every situation?

Inside Job is indeed insane; however, there are tools to mitigate it (ASH, Red Herrings, etc.) and Corps are aware of it. It's plenty powerful, but it's not an auto-include. As for Diesel, it depends how event-driven your deck is, and how many elements you need in place. If you need to draw a lot, having either Diesel or some sort of drawing power like Mr. Li is good; but there are many decks that assemble a quick rig and run, run, run, and there a Diesel is going to be a LOT worse than, say, Datasucker.

hitogoroshi · Post Post #60 (isolation #17) » Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:18 pm

For NBN: Future Proof. Future Proof has Project Beale, which gives NBN 6 3/2 agendas. It's amazingly strong. You also get Midseason Replacements, which let's you use one of the only genuinely good "combos" in Netrunner - Midseason Replacements, Project Beale, Pyschographics. (To be clear, unlike Magic, even a "good" combo is still extremely finnicky, situational, and you need to be able to win conventially sometimes as well - but it's at least somewhat reliable and worth building for, which is more than most combo decks in Netrunner.) You also get the new agenda NBN: The World is Yours*, which is good for blitz decks. Blitz decks got really hurt by Creation and Control, but if your meta doesn't have C&C cards (specifically, Self-Modifying Code, Atman, and Clone Chip) they're great. And Flare, a big piece of Ice that's so expensive it's situational but good if you can get it rezzed.

Opening Moves has Jackson Howard, probably the best Corp card since Core set. He's amazingly strong in basically all corp decks, it turns out, but since he's NBN you don't even need influence. Howard alone makes Opening Moves a good data pack, but I don't think it'd help as much as having Project Beale.

For Shaper: The big box expansion Creation and Control is the obvious answer - it has tons of great Shaper cards, but let's assume that's off limits. You actually get lucky here: Future Proof has Indexing AND R&D Interface, both fantastic shaper cards. Cyber Exodus has Personal Workshop, which is very strong for letting you install things at paid speed; i.e, during a run. (C&C has multiple ways of doing this, but if I recall correctly this is the only way outside of C&C to get paid speed installs currently.) It also has Test Run, an okay card that unfortunately needs Scavenge (from C&C) to really shine. There's also Chaos Theory and Dinosaurus, neither of which are fabulously strong but both can merit inclusion into some decks.

Overall - Future Proof is the first one you get, no questions asked. It's exactly what you want. If you can strain your budget a bit, Creation and Control is a great second pick; if not, Cyber Exodus would also be good.

Also, OP updated.

hitogoroshi · Post Post #73 (isolation #18) » Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:58 pm

man if you're gonna run Herrings run Fetal AI too. AI + Herrings is the funniest goddamn thing.

hitogoroshi · Post Post #75 (isolation #19) » Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:03 pm

Yeah, you have enough card draw that 2x Stimhack should be fine. Scrubber, Femme, and Cyberfeeder are all cool candidates to replace it.

I'd try to get that third Clone Chip in. Atman at paid speed is extremely good.

hitogoroshi · Post Post #79 (isolation #20) » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:16 pm

I did a Netrunner thing!

hitogoroshi · Post Post #83 (isolation #21) » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:07 am

In post 80, TheButtonmen wrote:Insider Trading - Hell no, this is effectively a 3:3 because it can instantly score another 2:3. If it was forfeited to get the effect or could only give each card a maximum of one advancement counter maybe?

I guess the writing still wasn't clear so I rewrote Insider Trading again. Yes, it's always been the intent that it moves only 1 token to a card, up to 3 cards.

The funny thing about Rootkit is, half of people think it's worthless and half think it's stupidly overpowered. Think of it this way - 2 clicks to grab tokens from Suckers, then you run the really difficult to hit R&D and throw those suckers on Medium. Leave a dead Imp on the field, then if the Corp rezs an upgrade with a high trash cost, throw one on the Imp.

Yeah, probably putting Alpha Release was a mistake. All of the NBN agendas seemed to be super strong and I picked the weakest looking one.

And yeah, Appointment is 0, good catch. As far as additional costs, it does not sac an agenda with Archer, since you ignore all costs, but it does give Corp a BP with Illict Ice. The trade may seem awful, but that's because it's for getting in a Remote specifically - you rez a giant fucking thing on a Central, you suddenly have 8c out of nowhere to score that last Agenda.

hitogoroshi · Post Post #179 (isolation #22) » Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:27 am

In post 177, mykonian wrote:someone make me enthusiastic for any of the upstalk cards There's not a single one I really want to play with.

Lotus Field means you can just ICE a fucking Central without Parasite shitting in your wheaties. If they can't break Taurus trace you get to trash even if they beat the trace as long as you spend enough. Mother Goddess owns bones.

hitogoroshi · Post Post #185 (isolation #23) » Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:49 pm

For me it's not about the breakers, it's about Parasite end of story. I used to run Himutsu-Bako as my anti-Parasite tech but that doesn't work against paid speed parasites, so I'm happy to have Lotus Field.