THe only reason I defended him, was because it didn't seem like a scum post. Just what I think.VitaminR wrote:It is pretty much just grasping at straws.Azkar wrote:Well, I guess if you really want to grasp at straws .. *shrug*VitaminR wrote:Feels like a "safe" post. Random.org to not be held responsible and the ultra-townie smilie with enthusiasm and reassurance that scum is the enemy.
Unvote: Seol,
Vote: Azkar
Based on very little, but it's a start.
Seriously, though, is random.org any more a suspicious reason for voting someone than any of the other reasons offered, so far?
I guess I'll try to curb my excitement about the next game I play . I admit it, I'm an impatient person. I waited through the queue, I waited through the confirms stage, and I was just happy about getting into the game.
But also to test reactions, like Fircoal stepping up to defend you. That could at some point become useful information.
Newbie 310: It's All Over -- WOO-HOO!
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Fircoal Goon
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Avinyl Townie
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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(I am going to reduce the quote size a bit to make this more readable.)
It certainly isn't something that'll really count against you in my mind. I'm just explaining why I voted based on something that is not really concrete evidence.Fircoal wrote:
The only reason I defended him, was because it didn't seem like a scum post. Just what I think.VitaminR wrote:But also to test reactions, like Fircoal stepping up to defend you. That could at some point become useful information.-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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Thesp Supersaint
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Fircoal wrote:THe only reason I defended him, was because it didn't seem like a scum post. Just what I think.Unvote: theopor_COD, Vote: Fircoal.Methink he doth protest too much."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Fircoal Goon
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How is my defense protesting to much? I only said it didn't seem like a scum post, to me.Thesp wrote:Fircoal wrote:THe only reason I defended him, was because it didn't seem like a scum post. Just what I think.Unvote: theopor_COD, Vote: Fircoal.Methink he doth protest too much.-
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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I think it is to do with the fact that your defense is "the only reason I defended him, was because it didn't seem like a scum post." That is what you can assume about every townie.
Your defense comes down to reasserting the fact that you're pro-town. That doesn't mean much as a defense, which is why it can be seen to reveal a need to re-affirm the underlying assumption that everyone is pro-town. Basically, stating that you're pro-town reveals a guilty conscience, and the possibility in your mind of it being untrue.-
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Azkar Townie
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This line of logic is really starting to get at me. I mean ... it's just too convenient, don't you think? Fircoal said the post didn't seem like a scum post, and that casts a suspicious light on him, because it asserts pro-townieness? Well, really, whoVitaminR wrote:Your defense comes down to reasserting the fact that you're pro-town. That doesn't mean much as a defense, which is why it can be seen to reveal a need to re-affirm the underlying assumption that everyone is pro-town. Basically, stating that you're pro-town reveals a guilty conscience, and the possibility in your mind of it being untrue.isn'tgoing to assert a pro-town inclination? I don't think we'll see many people here trying to say they're pro-scum.
unvote
vote: VitaminR
Not much to go on, but it's a start.-
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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Thesp Supersaint
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Quoted for truthery.VitaminR wrote:Your defense comes down to reasserting the fact that you're pro-town. That doesn't mean much as a defense, which is why it can be seen to reveal a need to re-affirm the underlying assumption that everyone is pro-town. Basically, stating that you're pro-town reveals a guilty conscience, and the possibility in your mind of it being untrue.
Most people don't state that they are pro-town, because they presume it (particularly newer players). Scum are more likely to insist they are pro-town as a (crude) way of trying to convince the town that they are.Azkar wrote:This line of logic is really starting to get at me. I mean ... it's just too convenient, don't you think? Fircoal said the post didn't seem like a scum post, and that casts a suspicious light on him, because it asserts pro-townieness? Well, really, who isn't going to assert a pro-town inclination?"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Azkar Townie
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Blech .. I'llunvote, for now. There really isn't much to go on here, it seems. It would be nice if some of the other players dropped in to offer their perspective .
Right now, we've got VitaminR voting for myself, based on a perhaps overly enthusiastic first post, and we have Thesp voting for Fircoal over .. his defense of his defense? The rest, I think, were random / joke votes.-
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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theopor_COD
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theopor_COD PhD'oh!
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Fircoal Goon
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theopor_COD PhD'oh!
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Azkar Townie
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Did I really defend Fircoal? I thought I was more defending myself, by speaking out against the sort of logic that was being used against both of us. Honestly, Fircoal hasn't really said much in the game to make me think much, either way.VitaminR wrote:My vote is now also based on:
1) Your defense of Fircoal.
Because you're innocent, obviosly, right?VitaminR wrote:2) Your eagerness to vote me.
I'm still new to this game. I'm trying to get a feel for the right directions to take. Maybe my attack on VitaminR was weak. I still think his attack on me was weak. At least I'm willing to admit it, and back down for the moment.theopor_COD wrote:As for the reasons behind my vote, his defence of Fircoal and weak attack on VitaminR then subsequent unvote just convinces me of his scumminess.-
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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Could you show me how is it the logic that has been used against you?Azkar wrote:Did I really defend Fircoal? I thought I was more defending myself, by speaking out against the sort of logic that was being used against both of us. Honestly, Fircoal hasn't really said much in the game to make me think much, either way.
Well, yeah. 8)Azkar wrote:Because you're innocent, obviously, right?
More than anything, I'm keeping my vote on you and picking at your actions to see how you respond (and others). I'm not anywhere near convinced that you're scum. Honestly, your posts seem pretty transparent and helpful overall. I am definitely re-evaluating my suspicions.Azkar wrote:I'm still new to this game. I'm trying to get a feel for the right directions to take. Maybe my attack on VitaminR was weak. I still think his attack on me was weak. At least I'm willing to admit it, and back down for the moment.
The thing that is keeping my vote on you at the moment is mostly the strong sense of connection between Fircoal and you.
This, I'm afraid, is just strengthening that:
While I don't think theopor_COD's conviction is warranted, putting Azkar at -1 is not really all that significant. One of the votes on him was a random vote by you, who has clearly stipulated that he does not agree with the suspicion on Azkar (and therefore would not support a lynch). Also, anyone hammering Azkar this quickly would come under close scrutiny. It is not all that dangerous.Fircoal wrote:unvote: Azkar
Vote: Theopor_COD
You put Azkar at -1 lynch, that's a newbie game scum tactic.-
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Azkar Townie
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Your first comments about me:VitaminR wrote:
Could you show me how is it the logic that has been used against you?Azkar wrote:Did I really defend Fircoal? I thought I was more defending myself, by speaking out against the sort of logic that was being used against both of us. Honestly, Fircoal hasn't really said much in the game to make me think much, either way.
And your later explanation of Thesp's probable motives in voting Fircoal:VitaminR wrote:Feels like a "safe" post. Random.org to not be held responsible and the ultra-townie smilie with enthusiasm and reassurance that scum is the enemy.
Maybe it was a more tenuous link than I thought it was, at the time. But that's the only point I remember saying much of anything about Fircoal.VitaminR wrote:Your defense comes down to reasserting the fact that you're pro-town. That doesn't mean much as a defense, which is why it can be seen to reveal a need to re-affirm the underlying assumption that everyone is pro-town. Basically, stating that you're pro-town reveals a guilty conscience, and the possibility in your mind of it being untrue.
Thanks for explaining your current reasonings. I can see how the perceived connection between two players can be seen as suspicious. It seems a pretty obvious tell, though, and a really poor strategic move to show that much public support for a scum-buddy. It was nice having at least one person sticking up for me, but I don't pretend to know his motivations. I'm sure Fircoal can provide more insight into his thought processes than I can.VitaminR wrote:The thing that is keeping my vote on you at the moment is mostly the strong sense of connection between Fircoal and you.
This, I'm afraid, is just strengthening that:Fircoal wrote:unvote: Azkar
Vote: Theopor_COD-
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VitaminR Mafia Scum
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I do think you're right in that they stem from the same tack of reasoning. I definitely see them as separate, though. Firstly, intuitions about the sincerity of a post play an important role. Secondly, Fircoal's comment was different. It was unprompted and defensive and it stood out. Your first post was essentially the perfect townie post. They are both falling back on what is "safe," but in ways that I think should be distinguished.Azkar wrote:Maybe it was a more tenuous link than I thought it was, at the time. But that's the only point I remember saying much of anything about Fircoal.
That's all fairly irrelevant, since I do see how you would not have necessarily been defending Fircoal in attacking that.
It is a poor strategic move, but I have (or had) no way of gauging whether or not you or Fircoal are sound strategic players. In any case, the connection seems so obvious that I find it difficult to come up with another explanation. There is a tendency for suspicions to polarise a group of players, but, even if that is the case, a great deal of useful information can be gleaned from encouraging that process. I would definitely like to hear more from Fircoal about his theopor vote, though.Azkar wrote:Thanks for explaining your current reasonings. I can see how the perceived connection between two players can be seen as suspicious. It seems a pretty obvious tell, though, and a really poor strategic move to show that much public support for a scum-buddy. It was nice having at least one person sticking up for me, but I don't pretend to know his motivations. I'm sure Fircoal can provide more insight into his thought processes than I can.
I would also like to hear from Avinyl and Seol.-
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Thesp Supersaint
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So...tempting...must resist...hammer of doom...VitaminR wrote:While I don't think theopor_COD's conviction is warranted, putting Azkar at -1 is not really all that significant. One of the votes on him was a random vote by you, who has clearly stipulated that he does not agree with the suspicion on Azkar (and therefore would not support a lynch). Also, anyone hammering Azkar this quickly would come under close scrutiny. It is not all that dangerous."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Fircoal Goon
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I voted Theopor_Cod, because he put Azkar at -1, and a newbie, but to you it may not seem like much of a problem but it stood out more to me. If we allow people to put someone at -1 lynch, the scum can lynch that person, making in 2:3 on the 2nd day, I don't want that to happen. Like your vote on Azkar, I am picking straws. As I said before I only defended him because it didn't seem scummy to me. It really wasn't really a defense, but more my opinion on the case. I didn't seem that defensive when I typed it out.Fircoal strikes me more like an awful fake claim that gets you lynched in under 25 posts. - Kelly Chen-
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Fircoal Goon
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either that's sarcasm, or it proves my point.Thesp wrote:
So...tempting...must resist...hammer of doom...VitaminR wrote:While I don't think theopor_COD's conviction is warranted, putting Azkar at -1 is not really all that significant. One of the votes on him was a random vote by you, who has clearly stipulated that he does not agree with the suspicion on Azkar (and therefore would not support a lynch). Also, anyone hammering Azkar this quickly would come under close scrutiny. It is not all that dangerous.-
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Azkar Townie
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