Newbie 310: It's All Over -- WOO-HOO!

[VitaminR]

Heh. I'm so going to get myself lynched...

Theopor, your awful play just seemed sincerely clumsy to me. It didn't seem manipulative, just like someone who wasn't exactly sure what he was doing. I still don't think you're scum.

The fishing...

Fircoal: he voted you and I wanted him to explain it more. I don't think a third vote early in a newbie game is necessarily a scum tell and I wanted him to back it up with reasoning.
Azkar: I thought his reading of someone voting for him could reveal a lot about his alignment.
Seol: he only focused on me and I felt he was avoiding your wagon. Also, from his earlier comment about you (which I will quote below this) I thought he saw you in the same way and I wanted to see if he would stick to that. I find the fact that he hasn't pretty scummy.

I think you have turned it around and you pulled up some good analysis. Don't fault yourself if you end up lynching me, I screwed up as an IC here, I think.

[VitaminR]

I don't have a good handle on theopor_COD yet. He's wagon-happy, and says he's confident in his position, but I don't think his reasoning as I understand it is compelling. I'd say he looks scummy in a vacuum, but it's not in the least atypical for newbies nowadays.

Hmm... that was in response to my question, wasn't it? Then I'm remembering it wrong.

The one you quoted was because I felt he was focusing on me, asking him for an opinion after the debate was because I wanted to see whether or not he would do the convenient thing and change his position.

[VitaminR]

I did see those. I don't know, it seems to me to very much relate to the situation inside the debate.

I'm confused - what are you asking here?

I thought you were saying here:

I'd expect to hear that your position hasn't changed.

That at the end of the discussion, you'd expect me to state what my position was. I was merely pointing out that I did that, and to suggest otherwise is misrepresentation.

"Resolve a sticking point" seemed quite vague to me. I didn't read it as a clear statement of your position.

Again, I'm not sure I totally understand you here. Are you saying that I wasn't scrutinising my own vote, or that it was exempt from scrutiny by others? Ultimately, I voted you for something that you did, that I consider suspicious. If you want to challenge the reasons why I consider it suspicious, then I'll scrutinise my vote. If you want to challenge whether or not you actually did it, then I'll scrutinise my vote. But if you accept that you did it, and you tacitly accept my argument as to why I consider it suspicious, then why would you expect me to scrutinise my vote, at least as a consequence of the debate?

I did not blindly agree with you in the debate and I presented explanations that should cause a change in perspective. As you yourself indicated, your opinion did improve. As a result, you should have scrutinised your vote.

[MeMe]

Vote Count

:

theopor_COD

(3):

Fircoal, Thesp, Azkar

VitaminR

(2):

Avinyl, theopor_COD

Seol

(1):

VitaminR

not voting

(1):

Seol

Still need four.

[Fircoal]

Theopor_Cod, now that was a good post.

Fos: Vitamin R

unvote: Theopor_Cod

I'm not sure if your scum or not, but you seem to be less likely to be scum after that post.

[theopor_COD]

Heh. I'm so going to get myself lynched...

Theopor, your awful play just seemed sincerely clumsy to me. It didn't seem manipulative, just like someone who wasn't exactly sure what he was doing. I still don't think you're scum.

It wasn't an elaborate plan to catch anyone but I stand by my last post, I just think townies however experienced have to view me as scum or had to at any least, nowhere have you even discussed the idea that I'm looking the most guilty, it's like your trying to push a lynch on someone else because you know I'm town, I think the plan was to lynch someone else maybe Soel, (mind I'm not sure on him, he could easily be your scum partner) and then get me easily lynched tomorrow, I'm maybe miles off there, but your defence of me just doesn't look like anything a townie would do. I think you'd get respect if you hammered me pages ago.

The fishing...

Fircoal: he voted you and I wanted him to explain it more. I don't think a third vote early in a newbie game is necessarily a scum tell and I wanted him to back it up with reasoning.
Azkar: I thought his reading of someone voting for him could reveal a lot about his alignment.
Seol: he only focused on me and I felt he was avoiding your wagon. Also, from his earlier comment about you (which I will quote below this) I thought he saw you in the same way and I wanted to see if he would stick to that. I find the fact that he hasn't pretty scummy.

I think you have turned it around and you pulled up some good analysis. Don't fault yourself if you end up lynching me, I screwed up as an IC here, I think.

Fircoal's response is rational, he's new like me and having read another of his newbie games, with someone putting another on 3 votes early his caution is understandable. I think he's town.

Azkar's defence yet again is calm, he votes for me with good reason and questions my vote on him, my response is one where I'm worried about the votes on me, I should have backtracked but didn't, again I think he's town.

I'd agree with you Soel, he's partially ignored the issue, instead preferring to focus on your original attack against Azkar/Fircoal.


Looking at the others I'm not sure on Thesp and Avinyl, Thesp hasn't offered a great deal he seems to be very experienced from his mafia CV, I don't think he's proved himself pro-town yet. Avinyl has posted so infrequently its hard to tell again. Soel has confused me more than anything and again I'm not sure on him. The two scum I'm pretty sure are between yourself, Thesp, Soel and Avinyl.

[VitaminR]

Fircoal is definitely not scum.

It's Seol and Azkar, I'm fairly sure. That's just gut, though. I don't really expect anyone to follow me at this point.

[Fircoal]

Fircoal is definitely not scum.

It's Seol and Azkar, I'm fairly sure. That's just gut, though. I don't really expect anyone to follow me at this point.

Seol maybe, but I don't think that Azkar is scum.

In fact, I want to here from one of our lurkers, names Thesp. My suspicions at this point are about the same as Seol and Theopor_Cod, except the fact that they both could be scum.

[VitaminR]

It wasn't an elaborate plan to catch anyone but I stand by my last post, I just think townies however experienced have to view me as scum or had to at any least, nowhere have you even discussed the idea that I'm looking the most guilty, it's like your trying to push a lynch on someone else because you know I'm town, I think the plan was to lynch someone else maybe Soel, (mind I'm not sure on him, he could easily be your scum partner) and then get me easily lynched tomorrow, I'm maybe miles off there, but your defence of me just doesn't look like anything a townie would do. I think you'd get respect if you hammered me pages ago.

Maybe, but it would have been stupid. Perhaps it is highly irrational, but I just don't think you're scum!

I can't really explain it, I can't make it much clearer. I'm not going to pretend I think you're scum because I can't back it up with logic.

If I was trying to push a lynch on anyone, I've really handled it the wrong way. I said I'm not going to hammer you in such definite terms that it would look strange if I changed my mind on Day 2. My Seol vote was way too late and at a point where my credibility in this game was pretty much gone anyway.

I don't have a plan and I genuinely just happen to think you're not scum.

[VitaminR]

Fircoal is definitely not scum.

It's Seol and Azkar, I'm fairly sure. That's just gut, though. I don't really expect anyone to follow me at this point.

Seol maybe, but I don't think that Azkar is scum.

I thought that too, initially. They've avoided each other so neatly, though. They've barely commented on each other's behaviour. Seol avoided the Azkar wagon, Azkar has avoided the Seol/me debate.

[Fircoal]

Fircoal is definitely not scum.

It's Seol and Azkar, I'm fairly sure. That's just gut, though. I don't really expect anyone to follow me at this point.

Seol maybe, but I don't think that Azkar is scum.

I thought that too, initially. They've avoided each other so neatly, though. They've barely commented on each other's behaviour. Seol avoided the Azkar wagon, Azkar has avoided the Seol/me debate.

Well the Azkar wagon could of been seen as either way, and the debate was not understandible by me and Theopor, so maybe Azkar didn't understand it either.

[VitaminR]

No, he did. He commented on it. He didn't take a stand, though.

[VitaminR]

As for the Azkar wagon, Seol didn't comment on it as it was going on. He attacked me when it was winding down.

Sorry for all the double posts, I'm mostly posting on the cuff here.

[Fircoal]

As for the Azkar wagon, Seol didn't comment on it as it was going on. He attacked me when it was winding down.

Sorry for all the double posts, I'm mostly posting on the cuff here.

That is odd, I don't think it's likely that Azkar is scum. Though if he was it would probably be was Seol as said. VitaminR what do you think about Thesp?

[VitaminR]

He's the only one I'm not that sure about. I'm reasonably certain neither Avinyl, theopor or you are scum.

The way he FOSed Seol seemed sincere and, if scum, it was not really in his interests to divert any attention to a suspect who seems unlikely to be lynched. Theopor, Azkar and me make much easier targets.

I think he is pro-town at this point.

[Fircoal]

He's the only one I'm not that sure about. I'm reasonably certain neither Avinyl, theopor or you are scum.

The way he FOSed Seol seemed sincere and, if scum, it was not really in his interests to divert any attention to a suspect who seems unlikely to be lynched. Theopor, Azkar and me make much easier targets.

I think he is pro-town at this point.

2 things,

how are you sure Avinyl isn't scum.

And who did Thesp try to divert the attention off of.

[theopor_COD]

I'd agree I'm not sure on Thesp I think he needs to offer some opinion instead of throwing in the odd barb. VR I'm not with you on Avinyl don't see how he's in the clear not yet anyway, he seems happy under the radar, as like Fircoal just asked why do you think he's not scum?

[VitaminR]

This post:

I know i definitely meant to write that theopor_COD put Azkar at lynch -1. Why did i write Fircoal? I really have to sleep more.
I didn't want to put the last vote on you, not because it would seem suspicious, but because i don't want this day to end too soon. My suspicions of VitaminR are that he was arguing a point which he disagreed with. It's also that he just feels suspicious. I am very bad at deciding who seems most suspicious, so i usually just go with what feels right. I am not 100% sure that he is mafia, not even 5%, but i have to vote someone.

He can freely cite that he agrees with Seol or that my attack on Azkar was suspicious. The fact that he admits to not being sure about that and the fact that he bases on gut to a large extent make it seem sincere.

For scum, there would be some perfectly plausible reasons to hide behind there. He doesn't need to make his position that weak or his vote that open to criticism.

As for Thesp, theopor and me, I suppose, but the crucial thing to me is not who he was diverting attention away from, it is the fact that he need not have pulled Seol to the forefront. If he's scum, it makes justifying a vote needlessly difficult to choose Seol over others.

[Fircoal]

I'd say that Avinyl's post may of been sincere but it doesn't clear him. I think that Thesp could be a scum partner with you VitaminR, I notice how you seem to think he's pro-town but can go the other way, maybe that's because if he turns out to be scum, the suspicion will be off of you.

[VitaminR]

Yeah, that was my cunning plan.

I call three players pro-town, and then I'm scum for not being absolutely sure on the fourth one?

[theopor_COD]

Well if we listen to you then Azkar and Soel are the scum partners, right?

[Fircoal]

Yeah, that was my cunning plan.

I call three players pro-town, and then I'm scum for not being absolutely sure on the fourth one?

no, I'm just putting out suspicions, I'm not sure on Thesp, but it seems that he's more scum then town, I'm still not seeing much that could make Thesp or Avinyl more on the town side.

[VitaminR]

Well if we listen to you then Azkar and Soel are the scum partners, right?

Yes and I do definitely think Thesp is likely to be pro-town. A big contributing factor, however, is also that I don't think an Azkar-Thesp pair or a Seol-Thesp pair is likely from the way they've interacted.

[Fircoal]

Well if we listen to you then Azkar and Soel are the scum partners, right?

Yes and I do definitely think Thesp is likely to be pro-town. A big contributing factor, however, is also that I don't think an Azkar-Thesp pair or a Seol-Thesp pair is likely from the way they've interacted.

What interactions?

[Thesp]

Hmm. I'm still fairly fixated on theopor_COD, and I'm a little surprised at the lack of claim from him after essentially being told to do so (rightly, I think) by Seol. I don't agree with the VitaminR hate at all.

There are a number of likelihoods still out there, and I feel bad for saying I still need a proper re-read, even though I won't get the next chance to do so until Tuesday night.