Newbie 310: It's All Over -- WOO-HOO!

[MeMe]

Vote Count

:

VitaminR

(2):

Avinyl, gorckat

theopor_COD

(1):

Seol

Seol

(1):

VitaminR

Fircoal

(1):

Thesp

not voting

(2):

Fircoal, theopor_COD

Four to lynch.

[VitaminR]

I'd still like to see gorckat explain why my slip was telling.

[gorckat]

It was something I read in the wiki under Finding Mafia.

Now it seems the link has changed and I can't point anyone to it It was in the strategy articles, if anyone can find it.

[gorckat]

Basically it was referring to someone as a townie without saying "if".

[VitaminR]

Yeah, I've read that article. That refers to a slip, though. Jeep wasn't referring to something intentional. Nowhere did I intend to call Fircoal anything but a pro-town player.

[theopor_COD]

I have had internet problems again. I really hope it is fixed for good now. I will reread.

Come to any conclusions?

[theopor_COD]

vote fircoal

Been reading some of Thesp's games, he's obviously on to something.

[Fircoal]

vote fircoal

Been reading some of Thesp's games, he's obviously on to something.

huh? I haven't seen any proof of me being scum. I'd like to know why you and Thesp think I'm scum.

[theopor_COD]

Hunch mainly - I'd like Thesp to elaborate mind. Cannot dechiper anything from Avinyl due to a lack of information. Soel/Vitamin I'm not sure about - they could both be scum unlikely, both be town possible or one of each. Azkar/Gorckat again I'm not sure on but my reasons for finding you scummy apply to him aswell.

You I just think look the dodgiest and something's still nagging about me being on 3 votes for so long earlier, I tend to think the scum could have hammered me, then easily argued their way out of the next day's lylo lynch, guess what I'm saying is that if Soel, Vitamin or Avinyl hammered me back around page 3 we'd then be at 2 scum 3 townies the next day, one townie would only need to make a slip, vote for another townie and it would be game set and match. Therefore I'm leaning towards at least one of the scum being on my wagon from early on, maybe two. Plus we need some more discussion so hopefully this will raise it.

[theopor_COD]

To summarise -

I think if Vitamin, Soel or Avinyl voted me they could easily argue themselves out of the next day's lynch, Soel and VR's debate highlights that fact to me they're both pretty darn clever. It would be advantageous for any of them to hammer, kill someone at night and pretty much be 90% favourite in my eyes to lynch a townie over the next two nights. Out of Thesp, Azkar/Gorckat and Fircoal - i'm leaning towards Fircoal only based on posts mainly. Anyway it's something to discuss.

[Fircoal]

I see your point, but what if they thought it would put them in too much suspicion. Maybe they might not of been able to get out of it. I don't think that's any reason to clear them, if you are clearing them. That post makes me a bit more suspicious of you.

[theopor_COD]

I see your point, but what if they thought it would put them in too much suspicion. Maybe they might not of been able to get out of it. I don't think that's any reason to clear them, if you are clearing them. That post makes me a bit more suspicious of you.

Suspicious maybe. However I think after reviewing the game and how it's developed since the early stages any of the three could have argued they're way out of it, Avinyl yeh he may have got lynched, but VR and Soel I think could have hammered and then escaped a lynch or at least thrown us off the scent off the other scum so as we'd have lynched a townie once over the next two daytimes. They've proved to me over the thread that they can argue pretty damn good, VR is v.intelligent whilst Soel is like a machine. I think it would have been a wise move for the scum to hammer knowing my alignment, I guess it all depends how much I'm trusted here. Plus I haven't cleared them totally, I just think one of three on my wagon was scum, maybe even two of them. As I said earlier around bottom of page 5 I thought VR was scum for not finding me mafia but on reflection I think if he was scum it would have made sense for him to hammer and then argue tomorrow that I pretty much deserved it.

[Fircoal]

But what if you were mafia and they didn't hammer you because either they were town and wanted more proof, or they were scum with you.

[theopor_COD]

But what if you were mafia and they didn't hammer you because either they were town and wanted more proof, or they were scum with you.

Yes but I know I'm not . .
That's why I've speculated that it all depends how much I'm trusted. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong but currently it's the clearest theory I've got, especially after Vitamin's made a good argument against my previous one, and as I say I think VR could have cast the fourth vote and then found an escape route from tomorrow's lynch as could Soel.

[theopor_COD]

Fircoal let's say I'm wrong, where are you thoughts currently?

[Fircoal]

Fircoal let's say I'm wrong, where are you thoughts currently?

My thoughts are that you seem to be more scummy. As I see more suspicion pile on me, it looks like I would of been a better target to go after instead of the other 2. Also, I think you might be trying to cover for your scumbuddy.

Seol and VitaminR have both been posting good arguments (Not as much lately, but before during the debates), which both of them seem like they are trying to get the other lynched.

Thesp, is hard to get a read on.

gorckat, is still looking like town in my eyes.

Ayinvl,

really

needs to post more. Ayinvl's posts are a bit scummy.

[theopor_COD]

My thoughts are that you seem to be more scummy.

No surprise there being as I'm starting to point the finger at you.

As I see more suspicion pile on me, it looks like I would of been a better target to go after instead of the other 2.

I suspect Azkar/Gorckat and Thesp for the same reasons but Thesp's posts don't seem to concern me so much, I'm not convinced with Gorckat however, he's come into the game and posted a one-liner or so attacking VitaminR and as yet hasn't commented on any of the early wagons, possible avoidance? I'd be content voting him for the same reasons I'm voting you.

Also, I think you might be trying to cover for your scumbuddy.

Who's that then?

Seol and VitaminR have both been posting good arguments (Not as much lately, but before during the debates), which both of them seem like they are trying to get the other lynched.

Agree, but there's still a possiblity there both town. Getting each other lynched doesn't mean jack really if one was mafia as I say they could lynched me and then used that excellent debating skill to escape the next lynch.

Thesp, is hard to get a read on.

gorckat, is still looking like town in my eyes.

Ayinvl,

really

needs to post more. Ayinvl's posts are a bit scummy.

As for these three amigos, I'm with you on Thesp, he does need to explain his vote on you in better detail. As I say I've read some of his other games and he seems quite a master, we have sure got some top IC's in this game in Thesp, Vitamin and Soel, I feel in awe after the way I started the game. I think I read somewhere best tactic with Thesp is to follow him, if he town are doing well he's town, if town are doing badly he's scum.

Fircoal, any thoughts on Gorckat's reluctance to post anything but a small slip from Vitamin, I don't see much in it to be honest, he's pretty much avoided everything else

And which posts in particular are you finding scummy from Avinyl, mind as I've said before he does need to post something which is going to help the town once during the game. Either that or ask to be replaced because his lack of assistance is a hindrance he's either doing it on purpose i.e scum or telling the truth, i.e internet problems. However he's not going out of his way to catch the baddies.

[Fircoal]

My thoughts are that you seem to be more scummy.

No surprise there being as I'm starting to point the finger at you.

It's not that your pointing your finger at me, it's that you seemed to pick me, to vote for because people are starting to get suspicious of me. It seems your trying to make a bandwagon.

As I see more suspicion pile on me, it looks like I would
of been a better target to go after instead of the other 2.
I suspect Azkar/Gorckat and Thesp for the same reasons but Thesp's posts don't seem to concern me so much, I'm not convinced with Gorckat however, he's come into the game and posted a one-liner or so attacking VitaminR and as yet hasn't commented on any of the early wagons, possible avoidance? I'd be content voting him for the same reasons I'm voting you.

It seems like you picked me because I'm probably the best cannidate to be bandwagoned on. You say Gorckat looks scummy but yet you didn't vote for him, or Fos him.

Also, I think you might be trying to cover for your scumbuddy.

Who's that then?

If your scum probably VitaminR, Seol, or Avinyl. Though I see the biggest possibity of it being with Avinyl then VitaminR, and not really with Seol.

Seol and VitaminR have both been posting good arguments (Not as much lately, but before during the debates), which both of them seem like they are trying to get the other lynched.

Agree, but there's still a possiblity there both town. Getting each other lynched doesn't mean jack really if one was mafia as I say they could lynched me and then used that excellent debating skill to escape the next lynch.

There is that possibility, just pointing it out.

Thesp, is hard to get a read on.

gorckat, is still looking like town in my eyes.

Ayinvl,

really

needs to post more. Ayinvl's posts are a bit scummy.

As for these three amigos, I'm with you on Thesp, he does need to explain his vote on you in better detail. As I say I've read some of his other games and he seems quite a master, we have sure got some top IC's in this game in Thesp, Vitamin and Soel, I feel in awe after the way I started the game. I think I read somewhere best tactic with Thesp is to follow him, if he town are doing well he's town, if town are doing badly he's scum.

You are voting me, based on that Thesp has a feeling I'm scum, and you say he does need to explain on it, while that was part of the reason why you voted me. What does being an IC have to do about it? Did you listen to Seol and VitaminR all the time? And the whole town doesn't depend on Thesp's role. Also, how do we know if the town is doing good. Is anybody dead? NO! Do we know who the mafia is? NO! At this stage, only the scum and the mod can tell how good we are doing.

Fircoal, any thoughts on Gorckat's reluctance to post anything but a small slip from Vitamin, I don't see much in it to be honest, he's pretty much avoided everything else

And which posts in particular are you finding scummy from Avinyl, mind as I've said before he does need to post something which is going to help the town once during the game. Either that or ask to be replaced because his lack of assistance is a hindrance he's either doing it on purpose i.e scum or telling the truth, i.e internet problems. However he's not going out of his way to catch the baddies.

Well that is a bit scummy that, he's mainly focusing on that. But I've seen him post about what he thought of the player's scumminess. I'm finding Avinyl's lack of explaintion all the time scummy. I think he is telling the truth about internet problems though.

Vote: Theopor_COD

for the reasons above.

[Fircoal]

My thoughts are that you seem to be more scummy.

No surprise there being as I'm starting to point the finger at you.

It's not that your pointing your finger at me, it's that you seemed to pick me, to vote for because people are starting to get suspicious of me. It seems your trying to make a bandwagon.

As I see more suspicion pile on me, it looks like I would
of been a better target to go after instead of the other 2.
I suspect Azkar/Gorckat and Thesp for the same reasons but Thesp's posts don't seem to concern me so much, I'm not convinced with Gorckat however, he's come into the game and posted a one-liner or so attacking VitaminR and as yet hasn't commented on any of the early wagons, possible avoidance? I'd be content voting him for the same reasons I'm voting you.

It seems like you picked me because I'm probably the best cannidate to be bandwagoned on. You say Gorckat looks scummy but yet you didn't vote for him, or Fos him.

Also, I think you might be trying to cover for your scumbuddy.

Who's that then?

If your scum probably VitaminR, Seol, or Avinyl. Though I see the biggest possibity of it being with Avinyl then VitaminR, and not really with Seol.

Seol and VitaminR have both been posting good arguments (Not as much lately, but before during the debates), which both of them seem like they are trying to get the other lynched.

Agree, but there's still a possiblity there both town. Getting each other lynched doesn't mean jack really if one was mafia as I say they could lynched me and then used that excellent debating skill to escape the next lynch.

There is that possibility, just pointing it out.

Thesp, is hard to get a read on.

gorckat, is still looking like town in my eyes.

Ayinvl,

really

needs to post more. Ayinvl's posts are a bit scummy.

As for these three amigos, I'm with you on Thesp, he does need to explain his vote on you in better detail. As I say I've read some of his other games and he seems quite a master, we have sure got some top IC's in this game in Thesp, Vitamin and Soel, I feel in awe after the way I started the game. I think I read somewhere best tactic with Thesp is to follow him, if he town are doing well he's town, if town are doing badly he's scum.

You are voting me, based on that Thesp has a feeling I'm scum, and you say he does need to explain on it, while that was part of the reason why you voted me. What does being an IC have to do about it? Did you listen to Seol and VitaminR all the time? And the whole town doesn't depend on Thesp's role. Also, how do we know if the town is doing good. Is anybody dead? NO! Do we know who the mafia is? NO! At this stage, only the scum and the mod can tell how good we are doing.

Fircoal, any thoughts on Gorckat's reluctance to post anything but a small slip from Vitamin, I don't see much in it to be honest, he's pretty much avoided everything else

And which posts in particular are you finding scummy from Avinyl, mind as I've said before he does need to post something which is going to help the town once during the game. Either that or ask to be replaced because his lack of assistance is a hindrance he's either doing it on purpose i.e scum or telling the truth, i.e internet problems. However he's not going out of his way to catch the baddies.

Well that is a bit scummy that, he's mainly focusing on that. But I've seen him post about what he thought of the player's scumminess. I'm finding Avinyl's lack of explaintion all the time scummy. I think he is telling the truth about internet problems though.

Vote: Theopor_COD

for the reasons above.

[Fircoal]

As I see more suspicion pile on me, it looks like I would
of been a better target to go after instead of the other 2.

I suspect Azkar/Gorckat and Thesp for the same reasons but Thesp's posts don't seem to concern me so much, I'm not convinced with Gorckat however, he's come into the game and posted a one-liner or so attacking VitaminR and as yet hasn't commented on any of the early wagons, possible avoidance? I'd be content voting him for the same reasons I'm voting you.

It seems like you picked me because I'm probably the best cannidate to be bandwagoned on. You say Gorckat looks scummy but yet you didn't vote for him, or Fos him.

I edited a quote I messed up.

[theopor_COD]

I'm not bandwagonning anyone I just think Vitamin and Soel could have hammered, killed another townie at night, put us at lylo, easily hammered and won the game if they were scum. The whole basis of my argument is that they didn't, when I first/second time re-read Vitamin stood out most for his staunch defence, but now after reading again I think if he was scum he would have hammered, I think it's fair to say he'd have a pretty good chance of avoiding the lynch or at least ensuring his scum buddy didn't get detected. I think it's a pretty sound argument, the scum would have been at a huge advantage doing so in my opinion.

As for your points above - only Thesp was suspicious of you, I am after re-reading but from what I can tell no one else, there's no need to do a spot of

WIFOM

with the I'm starting to bandwagon line, hell it's page 11, we need to develop some theories, do you expect to not once come under any suspicions? I think at some stage everyone does.

You then totally ignore my question on Gorckat, the one that he's come in and not commented on the early exchanges only on a passing misnoma from Vitamin. Mind you refer to it being slightly scummy at the foot of the post, I'd love Gorckat to add more opinion by the way because right now Vitamin looks pro-town to me as does Soel.

I'm not scum so the third part is irrelevant, however I like the way you assume Avinyl is the next most scummy, because he's absent I guess?

The argument on Thesp is just one I've picked up from reading some of his other games, he must find something suspicious in you, however I'm not voting you for the fact he is. Yes his vote made me review my opinions of you and after reading your posts and then re-evaluating the early wagon, I've formed my own opinion. I cannot see why you think I'm following Thesp's reasons for voting you especially as we don't know Thesp's reasons!

As for Gorckat/Avinyl. I find Gorckat more scummy and yep if you turn out to be mafia, then he's the one I'll have my eye on next, you want an

FOS

for him there you go.

[VitaminR]

Yeah, I've read that article. That refers to a slip, though. Jeep wasn't referring to something intentional. Nowhere did I intend to call Fircoal anything but a pro-town player.

Also, I'd still like to know what purpose my slip served, according to you.

Fircoal, I don't think it's fair to say that theopor picked you. He has repeatedly stated the reasoning that led him to suspect you. Also, you're not the easiest target. Thesp may have his vote on you, but his reasoning is still non-transparent. I have Avinyl and gorckat voting for me, with Seol more than ready to join if theopor were to show willingness to vote me.

Theopor, your theory relies on the thought that an experienced player could argue themselves out of a lynch. The problem with that assumption is that from it follows that an experienced player could argue someone else into a lynch. Consequently, an experienced scum player would still have the experienced pro-town player(s) to contend with the following day.

So... stop attacking each other. Neither of you is scum.

[theopor_COD]

Theopor, your theory relies on the thought that an experienced player could argue themselves out of a lynch. The problem with that assumption is that from it follows that an experienced player could argue someone else into a lynch. Consequently, an experienced scum player would still have the experienced pro-town player(s) to contend with the following day.

So... stop attacking each other. Neither of you is scum.

I think either you or Soel could easily argue your way out of a lynch the following day especially when it was in lylo. It would make sense to kill one experienced player at night, then all it needs is one newbie townie to make a rash vote the next day on a townie and the two scum could easily pile on. It just seems a viable option. I also don't know how convincingly clear both me and Fircoal. It does seem Vitamin that you have a vendetta against Soel and to be honest I don't think either you or Soel are scum.

[theopor_COD]

Vitamin what do you make of Gorckat? As I say I'm pretty leery of both Fircoal and Gorckat wouldn't have a problem voting either.

[gorckat]

Yeah, I've read that article. That refers to a slip, though. Jeep wasn't referring to something intentional. Nowhere did I intend to call Fircoal anything but a pro-town player.

Also, I'd still like to know what purpose my slip served, according to you.

In my mind, a slip is unintentional. You do not intend to do it. You "slip". I know no other way to say it. Based on how

I

remembered the article on tells, referring to someone as town so concretely was a tell (implying absolute knowledge of someone's innocence).

Apparently, its value is actually pretty low and it wasn't written to cover what I thought it did.

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