Mafia 62: Suspicion in Sicily - Game over!

[hollywoody1221]

unvote TS

I'm getting too much conflicting evidence. TS puts up some reasonably valid points in his defense, and VitaminR was very callous in his word choice.

[Mr. Flay]

First Vote Count of Day Two:

Toaster Strudel - 4 (VitaminR, Panzerjager, Ancalagon, AlexPaoletti)

VitaminR - 2 (Raffles, ~N9V~)
scotmany12 - 1 (Toaster Strudel)
Raffles - 1 (Phoebus)

Not voting - 7 (spectrumvoid, Cubsfan4ever, scotmany12, Yosarian2, Rand Althor, hollywoody1221, Dragon Phoenix)

With fifteen alive, eight votes will lynch.

[Phoebus]

Really? What points?
What defense?

[hollywoody1221]

TS mentions Scotmany's post as being 'too townie'. Now we all know that it can be misconstrued either way, but it does make one think. Then, he talks about how scum would want any bandwagon. Actually, now that I've reviewed it, I'm completely ok with my vote on him. I just hadn't had a chance to look over any of the posts, and didn't want to lynch someone unless I was fully in support of it.

vote ToasterStrudel

. Does anyone know what's with the Tiger thing?

[Ancalagon]

Look at today's date, hollywoody.

[hollywoody1221]

Yeah, about a minute after I asked, I realized I had just woken up to April Fools Day. So far, it's the Establishment 1, Me 0.

[VitaminR]

Phoebus, Raffles isn't scum. We should go for TS.

Horribly scummy.

Vote: VitaminR

And why exactly?

I think you're pro-town. I think TS is scum. I concede that the TS wagon is moving awfully quickly, but I'm pretty convinced on both of these assumptions.

Explain your logic to me.

[hollywoody1221]

Yes, Raffles, please explain why you're going against someone who, very recently, said that he didn't think you were scum. It seems like you're shooting yourself in the foot. Or, just giving yourself an alibi if TS turns out not to be scum.

[Raffles]

Why do I care if he said he thought I was protown? I don't see myself as being in dept to say Vitamin R is a town too, that's ridiculous. If I think he is scummy, I can vote for him regardless of what he thinks of me, right?

It seems like you're shooting yourself in the foot. Or, just giving yourself an alibi if TS turns out not to be scum.

Another horribly scummy talk right there. Now let's think this for a moment... if I was a town, why would I be shooting myself in the foot? Your presumpion of me being scum is so thick in that quote that it's a loaded question.

It just doesn't strike me at all as what a town would say. It seems as though you expect me to know that VitR is my buddy, therefore I know his alignment. I don't, therefore I see no problem with accusing him. As for VitR...

Phoebus, Raffles isn't scum. We should go for TS.

My first thought when I read that was, "leave Phoebus to vote whoever he wants, bitch. Why should he believe you just because you tell him I'm not a scum?" This partly has to do with my policy "leave people to make their own decisions". But then I read again and thought, "Isn't this a talk to the scum buddy?" How can he go about telling Phoebus to join TS bandwagon, when he doesn't know whether Phoebus is protown or not? I don't know Phoebus's alignment, he made himself pretty shrowded the whole game, I wouldn't dare tell him to join any bandwagon.

I'm happy with woody and VitR being scum buddies, and maybe Phoebus as a more of indirect reasoning.

[Toaster Strudel]

Yes, Raffles, please explain why you're going against someone who, very recently, said that he didn't think you were scum.

Haha. All that scum would need to do is to declare everyone "townie" and no one could vote for them, hahahahaha.

[PJ.]

unvote, Vote: Hollywoody

This vote will not be moving unless something substantial comes up.

[PJ.]

EBWOP: Substantial meaning someone coming out and saying, " Hi guys, guess what? I'm scum and you are all gonna die. Later, kids."

[VitaminR]

Phoebus, Raffles isn't scum. We should go for TS.

My first thought when I read that was, "leave Phoebus to vote whoever he wants, bitch. Why should he believe you just because you tell him I'm not a scum?" This partly has to do with my policy "leave people to make their own decisions".

I don't entirely follow your logic here. I'm free to give my opinion, he's free to use his vote.

I was trying to convey that I have a strong gut feeling Toaster Strudel is scum. I'm putting my certainty out there, something I wouldn't otherwise do.

I do think it's worth pointing out that my main reason for thinking you're pro-town is the way Jalyn went after you, though.

But then I read again and thought, "Isn't this a talk to the scum buddy?" How can he go about telling Phoebus to join TS bandwagon, when he doesn't know whether Phoebus is protown or not? I don't know Phoebus's alignment, he made himself pretty shrowded the whole game, I wouldn't dare tell him to join any bandwagon.

I have no qualms with telling people to join bandwagons. It helps gauge their alignment and it makes my position clear. In fact, Raffles, stop your silly tangent and vote TS.

Btw, if TS is scum (and I'm pretty certain she is), DP and ~N9V~ are too.

[Yosarian2]

Hm. TS might not be a bad wagon; I notice Jalyn didn't mention him at all, which is unusual as TS did get a good deal of attention yesterday, and one scum will sometimes totally ignore a bandwagon on his partner rather then join it or defend.

[Cubsfan4ever]

just checking back in, I'm gonna do a read on what I missed while I was away

[Toaster Strudel]

Whatever you guys decide. I am not scum. So I strongly suggest that everybody that is pressuring me right now, instead of true scumbag scotmany12, elaborates a great deal on their game plan when I turn out town. Like... you can all start a sentence with "if TS is turns out town then... blah blah blah" - it will be more informative if you do it NOW, than if you do it tomorrow in hindsight.

I don't mind being the lynch for today since I don't have a power role. My purpose is to shake things up and draw as much information as possible if lynched.

I am very disappointed scotmany12 was not vigged.

[Toaster Strudel]

unvote, Vote: Hollywoody

This vote will not be moving unless something substantial comes up.

I am glad you unvoted me, but I don't think Hollywoody is particularly scummy. I don't understand why you are voting for him.

[Raffles]

TS... summarise your case against TS? Or point me to the post where this is done?

[Raffles]

shit that made no sense, TS, summarise your case against scotmany, etc. etc...

[hollywoody1221]

Maybe he's trying a random vote on the second page?
But, Raffles, my intended purpose when saying you would be shooting yourself in the foot is this
1) I'm making the assumption that you're town, VitaminR is town, and that the people voting for you are misled.
2) I'm saying that having someone who very clearly states that they believe you not to be scum is a good thing, because it's one less person who will vote for you in a push-comes-to-shove situation.
3) If you accuse someone who believes you to be most definitely town, you're confusing people.
4) If VitaminR is scum, and I have no idea how likely that is, then he already knows that you're not scum, and wouldn't say it, unless he is trying to confuse people. I don't think he was trying to confuse people. If you are scum, he is trying to defend you, and hurting himself if you get lynched. Either way, it seems like you're hurting yourself by attacking a person who solidly defends your township.
So, I was merely pointing out that accusing someone who would not vote for you would be bad, as you already had one vote at the time. One vote isn't intimidating, but it could lead to a bandwagon.

[scotmany12]

He doesn't have a case against me raffles.

[Toaster Strudel]

CASE AGAINST SCOTMANY:

Day 1

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 934#533934
One sentence. Wimpily unvotes a guy with only 2 votes.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 546#537546
One line. Expresses puzzlement that players are pushing for a lynch earlt in the name, which is playing dumb. Who's concerned about that? An early Day 1 wagon almost never results in a lynch. It's just to kick start discussion.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 456#541456
One line. Wishy-washy "leaning" towards voting for me (I had 5 votes). Holds off voting.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 779#544779
This one's precious. He finally votes, opportunisitcally giving me a 7th vote. Why? He doesn't like how I pushed "for a lynch in the beginning of the game." Duh. Everyone knows no lynch would happen, it's just the game, we have to get it going. Berates me for voting for the next guy with the most votes, duh!!!

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 870#544870
Another useless "I agree" one-liner.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 743#548743
"My vote remains on TS for now. I have to reread sometime, but until then, I am confident with where my vote is. " - That's all. Ah, but now I am at 4 votes. There's near zero case against me, but suddenly, mister wishy-washy is confident. Stinks of opportunism and convenience. Maybe he didn't like the fact that both me and kinkster both had 4 votes?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 087#549087
Another hollow one line promise to reread.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 870#549870
Still no time to re-read by hey! "Until then, my vote stays on TS" - I am back at 6, kinster at 4.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 288#551288
Ah! CONTENT!!! Now he's very sure kinskter is sum because of bad grammar and punctuation. Read the whole post carefully. He's confident... but there is no reason for his vote of kinkster whatsoever! None at all. Basically, he says that after rereading, he finds kinkster most scummy. That's his REASON!

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 643#551643
Yet later, he berates Panzer for voting against kinster "for the sake of the English language" conveniently forgetting that he himself committed the same sin just a few posts before.

A day of insignifican, wimpy, "don't rock the boat" posts. Lurking, non-commital, plays dumb, asks too many self-evident questions. No rhyme or reason for this votes, except, of course, scummy opportunism.

Day 2

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 777#563777
Pretends he can't figure out why I found him opportunistic, and therefore, scummy.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 758#564758
SUddenly fakes concern at the speed of my DAY 2 wagon.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 394#567394
"He doesn't have a case against me raffles." Sorry, you're wrong about that.

Today: since he was put on notice yesterday that he was opportunisitic, he's bending overbackwards to try to look the opposite, ie, expressing false alarm over the speed of my wagon, especially in light of the fact that he's been saying that I am scum since day one, and continues to say so.

But as far as scotmany goes... whoever has the most votes is who he finds the most scummy! Like we wouldn't notice...

[scotmany12]

Ha, I laugh at that whole argument TS, especially when you think I voted for kison because he had bad grammar. I did nothing of the sort. Your argument is flawed. Nice try though.

[Raffles]

2) I'm saying that having someone who very clearly states that they believe you not to be scum is a good thing, because it's one less person who will vote for you in a push-comes-to-shove situation.
4) *snip* Either way, it seems like you're hurting yourself by attacking a person who solidly defends your township.

Hollywoody mate, these are playing politics. I

hate

politics. The very fakeness makes my blood boil. I have

no

interest in mutual alliance. This situation is where I have to suspect everyone, and I'm not willing to gamble playing along with

anyone

. People can vote for anyone so long as they give a proper reason, I couldn't care less. What I will refuse to do is just because someone defended me, I will owe them one back. And I expect others are not stupid enough to engage in this kind of behaviour.

I

will vote for whoever I find scummy. And I expect everyone else to do the same. (Other than scums, of course).

TS, it's 1 am. I will read those tommorrow, if you don't mind.

[hollywoody1221]

Ok, Raffles, you have me convinced. I understand your point of view, and I accept that. I don't expect you to 'owe' him, I just didn't expect an attack immediately afterwords, and wanted the logic behind it. Also, TS's argument is not bad, its just that I can't see myself unvoting it right now, as his point of view is not the only one in the argument.