Mafia 61: No Theme - Game over!

[Lalmtreasteek]

Modkills, are you kidding me. That helps the town out to no extent. The chance that we lose more scum than town is extremely low.

It helps the town by letting us get a lynch without having the vast majority of players agree on it. Assuming we currently have active scum which I definitely think we do. Scotmany, Skruffs, Twito, Dragon Phoenix, maybe Kison, I guess there are three scum somewhere there.

It is true but irrelevant that we would not likely lose more scum than town because we surely STARTED with less scum than town!

The presence of inactive players is in the town's BENEFIT because the endgame is based on how many town members are alive.

What? Seriously what are you saying?

Therefore, you are scum for wanting to have these people mod-killed. Hell, as scum, there is no risk involved because you would know their alignment.

Or maybe therefore you are scum because you know there are a bunch of scum among the dropouts!

ASSUMING the scum ratio among the dropouts is at least the same as among all the players, I don't see that anyone has given a sensible explanation for why these 7-8 modkillings would be bad for the town. Not to mention that even if it is bad for the town at least the game would be better. Not to mention that even if we only lost townies it would reduce the voting power of the active scums since at least it would be POSSIBLE to have a lynch without scum help.

[Battle Mage]

ROFL!
This post makes such little sense it is hilarious! First off, you accuse people of being scummy for reccommending modkills, THEN you say you want a deadline?!

Your vote too makes little sense. You are voting me on the premise that i am defending Lalm and acfan, presumably because you think that they are scum aswell. Of course, you have neglected to realise that in the event of them being protown, you have absolutely no reason to vote for me. If you can come up with a REAL reason for voting me, please do so.

unvote

Modkills, are you kidding me. That helps the town out to no extent. The chance that we lose more scum than town is extremely low. So for that

Fos: Lalmtreasteek

.

Now BM, You are defending both lalm and ac, and you are also in favor of modkills. You sure, are going to receive my vote.

Vote: BM

Even though twito disagrees with me, I am still in favor of a deadline. We need to speed this game up a little bit.

also,

Major FOS: Fircoal

You try to fit in with the majority by accusing the 3 popular targets, yet your accusation of one of them is completely untrue.
trying to fit in, and yet make it look like you are making a new contribution?
Scum.

BM

[Kison]

The presence of inactive players is in the town's BENEFIT because the endgame is based on how many town members are alive.

What? Seriously what are you saying?

I am saying that the game's ending is determined by how many townies are alive in comparison to scum. Having more townies ALIVE yet inactive is in our

benefit

.

Therefore, you are scum for wanting to have these people mod-killed. Hell, as scum, there is no risk involved because you would know their alignment.

Or maybe therefore you are scum because you know there are a bunch of scum among the dropouts!

No, because even if I were scum and every single one of those names were scum as well, I'd still know that the MOD would never do such a stupid thing. However,

you

are the one who came up with the idea, and therefore hand selected each name. Whether or not it

would

happen, you are the one who proposed it and thought it was a good idea.

ASSUMING the scum ratio among the dropouts is at least the same as among all the players, I don't see that anyone has given a sensible explanation for why these 7-8 modkillings would be bad for the town.

That is a HUGE assumption.

Not to mention that even if it is bad for the town at least the game would be better. Not to mention that even if we only lost townies it would reduce the voting power of the active scums since at least it would be POSSIBLE to have a lynch without scum help.

Confirm Vote : Lalmtreasteek

[Dragon Phoenix]

Our mod has not posted in this thread since March 23d. We are on page 27 in day one without even a night to start with and not a lynch in sight. This is no way to play mafia. I'm out of this game until we get the game going by growing some balls and actually lynch someone. Feel free to replace me.

[Skruffs]

[ Unvote

Vote : Llamastreak

If you wanted to play in a mini, you should have signed up for one. This is a large games, and large games get cumbersome at time. Killing off 8 roles day one with no information is beyond rationalizing. That and, according to you, if a higher percentage of the people you want to kill are scum than in the rest of the game (which shold be about 25%), that equals 3, plus the three people in your scum list - 4 - you've basically just cleared the 7 people not in your two lists. Which is bulshit for day one.

Secondly - what will killing them do FOR the town? We want to lynch people who will give us information. Either as to who's cleared or who's not. Flat out illing people - even scum - who aren't involved isn't going to tell us anything about remaining players in the game.
Secondly, if (As you suggest) that killing them (even as all town) would reduce our dependency on scum for a lynch, you are semi right. With (probably) around 5-6 scum in the game, and 13 players left, we could thus have one or two mislynches before we are in lylo. Plus we'd then have a night before we lynched. Do you want to go to lylo day 2 in the event that all of the modkilled are town?

Thirdly, if we have a criminologist, than there are multiple scum groups, and they will not be working together.

I think you just want to get a bunch of people killed off to make it easier for scum to win - because that's what would happen.

There's so so so so so much more I could say in response to your idea, but basically, it's a large game, there are slow periods, deal with it.

[Skruffs]

DP - vote lalms before you go. We havae our lynch rfor the day.

[Jalyn]

Well, our mod hasn't posted, but the backup mod seems to be on top of things.

And, if you want us to lynch someone, make a suggestion, several of us have given our suggestions. If you still think Rand is the play, why doesn't his testable claim change your mind?

[Jalyn]

DP - vote lalms before you go. We havae our lynch rfor the day.

I'm going with impatient new player on Lalmstreasteek at the moment. Much more interested in Battle Mage or ac1983fan.

[spectrumvoid]

My opinions:
- Lalm is probably an impatient new player.
- I can't see BM-scum seriously suggesting modkills. I read this more due to frustration.
- I think we should leave the claimed guy alone since it's fairly testable. I think people who want him dead are scummy. Weak though.
- DP: for someone who's frustrated with the slow pace, you don't seem to be doing much about it.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Well, our mod hasn't posted, but the backup mod seems to be on top of things.

And, if you want us to lynch someone, make a suggestion, several of us have given our suggestions. If you still think Rand is the play, why doesn't his testable claim change your mind?

because I don't believe it.

[Skruffs]

I believe he's impatient new scum.
Seriously, I don't understand why people sign up for a big gameg but then want it to be a mini. The only benefit anyone would get from killing 8 random people is that we get to endgame a hell of a lot faster and wiwth a hell of a lot mless information.
If lalm recants, I'll consider moving back to 1983, who is pretty scummy, but there is a big different between impatient and sloppily blood thirsty.

[Dragon Phoenix]

- DP: for someone who's frustrated with the slow pace, you don't seem to be doing much about it.

What do you want me to do? Some of you seem to think that by endless posting, and wagon loads of fluff on day one we are getting somewhere. We are not.

I am already on the wagon with the most votes, otherwise I'd gladly switch.

[Skruffs]

You made that vote in February. More information has shown up, since then.

[Lalmtreasteek]

I am CLEARLY not the lynch.

I am saying that the game's ending is determined by how many townies are alive in comparison to scum. Having more townies ALIVE yet inactive is in our benefit.

I don't think your posts make sense, it's not like I proposed to kill only townies.

If you wanted to play in a mini, you should have signed up for one.

I'm a replacement. If you (not you since you're scum but "you" players generally) want to replace me with somebody else then have fun!

This game is basically a mini already... It would even be a good one if the lynch requirement was sensible

Secondly - what will killing them do FOR the town? We want to lynch people who will give us information. Either as to who's cleared or who's not. Flat out illing people - even scum - who aren't involved isn't going to tell us anything about remaining players in the game.

So maybe we can learn something by who chooses to go after Wizardcat instead of Cheesefan. :rolleyes:

Thirdly, if we have a criminologist, than there are multiple scum groups, and they will not be working together.

Right but why is this important.

I think you just want to get a bunch of people killed off to make it easier for scum to win - because that's what would happen.

HOW

Seriously, I don't understand why people sign up for a big gameg but then want it to be a mini. The only benefit anyone would get from killing 8 random people is that we get to endgame a hell of a lot faster and wiwth a hell of a lot mless information.

I DO NOT want this to be a mini, I don't care about the specific number of players in this game. This argument about less information is absolute nonsense! And why do you say "the only benefit" when you already said I was right ("semi right") about reduced dependency on scum for lynches.

[Battle Mage]

i agree with you and SV that Lalm probably isnt scum. Id go as far to say that Acfan is likely to be town. I obviously am town.
I dont know who im voting at the moment but if Jalyn keeps these ridiculous accusations up, i may have to vote for her.
BM

DP - vote lalms before you go. We havae our lynch rfor the day.

I'm going with impatient new player on Lalmstreasteek at the moment. Much more interested in Battle Mage or ac1983fan.

[Jalyn]

i agree with you and SV that Lalm probably isnt scum. Id go as far to say that Acfan is likely to be town. I obviously am town.
I dont know who im voting at the moment but if Jalyn keeps these ridiculous accusations up, i may have to vote for her.
BM

DP - vote lalms before you go. We havae our lynch rfor the day.

I'm going with impatient new player on Lalmstreasteek at the moment. Much more interested in Battle Mage or ac1983fan.

You're currently voting for me.

[Skruffs]

So a mafia group is going to have no problem helping lynch an sk, and vice versa.

This argument about less information is absolute nonsense!

How? What will removing a third of the players, point blank, tell us? Their roles. Nothing else. What will letting them get lynched, nightkilled, defending each other, inspecting/protecting/blocking each other tell us? A lot. This is a game, and they are playing in it. You want to basically skip ahead two or three days, and start from there.

How do any of us, including you, know that you

didn't

proposed to kill only townies? Your own opinion of the natures of their roles has fluctuated back and forth from 'they're probably mostly scum' to 'who cares if they are all townies', etc. Did you look through each player's posting history and actually choose the least active and ALL of the least active players?

I'm a replacement, too - a good bit of us are - but we agreed to play the game, and i think we should.

Lastly,

Shame : Dragon Phoenix, others

for inciting apathy.

[ac1983fan]

I don't think you should ask the mod to modkill people. replace, maybe....

[Jalyn]

*also a replacement*

Dragon Phoenix, can I note that you identified the problem from several weeks ago - people posting fluff and jacking up the post count on this game. I know that I'm not going back to reread those opening pages any time soon, because it's a chore. Recently, though, the problem has been inactivity rather than over activity. If we got enough people active to form an actual lynch majority - especially for someone that doesn't have a testable power role claim - we'd be able to move into night and see if tomorrow works any better for us.

Skruffs, I think Lalmstreasteek would have dropped the idea by now if he was scum, considering it's been giving him a bunch of negative attention.

[ac1983fan]

(sorry for the double post)

<snip>

I think you just want to get a bunch of people killed off to make it easier for scum to win - because that's what would happen.

HOW
</snip>

Most of the people modkilled would probably be town. fewer town=fewer people for the mafia to have to kill to win.

[Jalyn]

Suggestion!

mod: Is there any chance that rather than modkilling the inactives, they be considered in active and not part of the figures needed for a lynch until they can be replaced? (Please see the rules (only the rules!) of Kelly Chen's Mafia 59 for an example of this in action.)

I doubt that this would work, because it's a rule change in the middle of the game, but it might get us through this day and gives a little more time for replacements to be found.

[Patrick]

Hello players. It appears that AndrewS has vanished. I certainly wasn't bargaining on having to take over the game, I was the backup mod mainly to get the modding experience needed to mod newbie games. However, I don't want to let it die either.

AndrewS gave me everybody's roles at the start of the game, unfortunately these are saved on another computer which I don't have access to during the holidays. I still have some idea on the layout from memory,

but I will need everyone to send me their role by PM please

. This will also serve as some kind of activity check. It may be that someone will takeover modding, but in the meantime, you have me. Carry on playing as normal, and I'll try to decide what to do about inactives once I see how many people are active still.

[Patrick]

Kison (2) -- Twito, pevergreen,
Rand Althor (4) -- Mole, Dragon Phoenix, Mastermind of Sin, ac1983fan
Jalyn (1) -- Battle Mage
Battle Mage (3) -- Wizardcat, Cheesefan, scotmany12
Scotmany12 (1) -- StallingChamp
TheJiveMachine (2) -- Sailor Jerry, Lalmtreasteek
Lalmtreasteek (2) -- Kison, Skruffs
ac1983fan (1) -- Jalyn


Not Voting: Rand Althor, Paper, TheJiveMachine, Fircoal, Spectrumvoid
21 alive, 11 to lynch.

[Skruffs]

Most of the negative feedback is coming from two or three people.
Personally, I don't see pro-town players, experienced or not, pushing for 8 people to be knocked off in the game. No. I don't see it.
PM Sent.

[Jalyn]

Thank you Patrick! I appreciate your efforts to keep this game going.

PM sent