Mafia 61: No Theme - Game over!

[Lalmtreasteek]

I am not voting Battle Mage and will not vote Battle Mage because I haven't seen that he has said much that sounds scummy. In fact I can hardly imagine that Battle Mage is scum, he seems sincere and earnest.

Now someone is going to say, "Well he's defending you and your scummy claim isn't he?" But from my perspective that isn't scummy at all. True you can't totally trust my claim and there are advantages to lynching me due partly to this, but I also think there has been at least a little reason to see I'm telling the truth.

He's contradicting himself on a post by post basis, though.

Where did I contradict myself. This is sort of thing, Skruffs can just throw this on the pile and nobody will question it because my bandwagon has as much momentum as possible, may as well shoo me out as quickly as possible, etc. But this charge is totally imaginary and I want everyone to remember he said this.

Another thing, if I don't remark on anything else on Twito I want to note this, how he started out with his irrational sudden push against IH who got replaced by Skruffs. These are two of the scummiest spots in this game, and I wonder if it really is just a coincidence. Here's a hypothetical possibility, suppose that if Twito managed to get IH lynched, and IH comes up as scum, then Twito would look super town (despite his scummy posts) because why would a scum just sacrifice their partner for no reason.

And here is how Twito gracefully got his vote off

You are absolutely right there is no way I would be spamming the thread if I were to be town.
Unvote
Vote: RR
IH is scum removed from sig. We can lynch him later on, he is not that annoying.

Scummy move to me. Unvote because he is not that annoying.

[Fircoal]

I think Lalm has a point, in his eyes BM probably hasn't been that scummy. IF town, he is the only one who believes him, and is willing to defend a town. IF scum, it would be even scummier to say the one person who is defending you is scum.
About Kison I argee with that too, to an extent. You have contradicted yourself some, but not much.

Though, I think your Twito suspicions, are just scum trying to get a lynch. I don't think Twito would vote off his partner, if they were partners. ALso, I believe TWito always plays like what he did in the quote.

[Skruffs]

fircoal - so lalm is probably not counterclaiming and is in fact another criminologist?

[Kison]

I think Lalm has a point, in his eyes BM probably hasn't been that scummy. IF town, he is the only one who believes him, and is willing to defend a town. IF scum, it would be even scummier to say the one person who is defending you is scum.
About Kison I argee with that too, to an extent. You have contradicted yourself some, but not much.

Although a good point, I think what you're saying is more that their support for each other can't be used against them in this case. However, my point against Battle Mage is more that

if

Lalm comes up scum, Battle Mage is almost definitely scum.

[Fircoal]

fircoal - so lalm is probably not counterclaiming and is in fact another criminologist?

No, I'm just saying if, LAml is telling the truth, he barely has a reason to think Bm is scummy. And Kison is correct if Laml is scum, BM is scum.

[Battle Mage]

And Kison is correct if Laml is scum, BM is scum.

BS.
I mean, i can understand the reasoning, but id be particularly surprised if the town was stupid enough to go along with that flawed theory entirely.
im really concerned about your certainty in such a mine-wrought statement....

[Lalmtreasteek]

If I'm TOWN does Battle Mage get a little pass? Or are the scums in this game determined to have a Battle Mage lynch sooner or later

[Dragon Phoenix]

Next week I will be on a business trip, but I hope to have internet access a couple of times.

On the other hand, from April 28th onwards I will be out for 4 weeks.

Probably we will still be on day one then, though.

[Skruffs]

Lalm - yesh, i would think battle mage would, if you were town. everyone has to play devil's advocate to make the game move forward. BM is not helping the day end, though - which i think we are all ready for tohappen. So unless we want to go to nolynch, i think you should be lynched, mostly because i doubt there's two "criminologists" in a normal, flavorless mafia.

There is no deadline or anything, and the passion of the moment has passed for me - I'm not going to say without doubt that you are defintely scum - but if ou are - everyone almost has commented on you and we have a lot of info that could be made available with the knowledge of your real role and alignment.

THe biggest reason i think BM might be scum is because he seems to be still trying to suggest that

rand

is more likely the fake claim, when rand claimed first, and it's a role that could be for all intents and purposes made up! THough i think it's real. SO him defending you so scummily is not helping your case any.

[Lalmtreasteek]

Skruffs please pick out which Battle Mage post lets you think that he believes Rand Althor is more likely to be scum than myself. I can see that he's said the reverse of that several times.

[Battle Mage]

Lalm is absolutely right in the post above this. Skruffs, why must you continue lying when i have explained several times that your claims are untrue. I do not think Rand is more likely scum than Lalm based on the claims. I believe that they are both town. What does worry me is your willingness to use Rands role as a weapon. You are playing on common townie fear of losing a power role in order to incriminate a fellow protown player. I DO NOT WANT RAND LYNCHED. Is that big enough for you?

I do agree with you though that there is no real reason to continue this day any longer. I have made it quite clear that there are viable alternatives that will help the town much more, but as no1 else will co-operate there is little more to be gained by continuing the day further. On the other hand, i will certainly not be joining the Lalm wagon, as i feel it would be hypocritical to do so when i am so sure that he is protown.
actually, i disagree about your 1 criminologist theory. I have a feeling that this game does have a theme, with flavour etc, but the mod isnt revealing it. i modded a game in a similar way before and it worked pretty well. kept everyone guessing.

Answer me this: What info do we gain from lynching Lalm?
all we get is a huge list of suspects, because basically all the active players have been keen to play a part in this lynch...
even if he comes up scum, we dont gain any information as such (except the probability that Kison is also scum as proven earlier), because its highly likely that the Mafia will sit back and let you guys lynch me and waste another day.

actually, you have brought up here the

1

weakness of Rands claim-the fact that the mafia COULD have guessed that the town would have a criminologist. Its not as rare a role as you might think-in my experience it is more common than a Vig/SK. Of course, a criminologist is only useful in games where there are lots of different killing groups. If one mafia group had only 2 or 3 people, they would have assumed that there was probably another scumgroup, and an SK perhaps. This of course makes the role of Criminologist quite realistic, and it wouldnt surprise me if a Mafia member suggested it as a decent false-claim.
Im not saying i think Rand is scum, as that is certainly not true, but i am saying that his claim isnt watertight to the extent that some people are pretending is the case.

Lalm - yesh, i would think battle mage would, if you were town. everyone has to play devil's advocate to make the game move forward. BM is not helping the day end, though - which i think we are all ready for tohappen. So unless we want to go to nolynch, i think you should be lynched, mostly because i doubt there's two "criminologists" in a normal, flavorless mafia.

There is no deadline or anything, and the passion of the moment has passed for me - I'm not going to say without doubt that you are defintely scum - but if ou are - everyone almost has commented on you and we have a lot of info that could be made available with the knowledge of your real role and alignment.

THe biggest reason i think BM might be scum is because he seems to be still trying to suggest that

rand

is more likely the fake claim, when rand claimed first, and it's a role that could be for all intents and purposes made up! THough i think it's real. SO him defending you so scummily is not helping your case any.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I hate this day...

[Jalyn]

I hate this day...

It's been a bit... frustrating.

I'm currently happy with my vote.

Skruffs is ... confusing. Unless I'm misreading, he appears to be accusing Battle Mage of the one scummy thing that he

didn't

do.

I still think ac1983fan is scum.

[Battle Mage]

ok then, to try another tact, what scummy things

DID

i do?
why is ac1983fan scum?

I hate this day...

It's been a bit... frustrating.

I'm currently happy with my vote.

Skruffs is ... confusing. Unless I'm misreading, he appears to be accusing Battle Mage of the one scummy thing that he

didn't

do.

I still think ac1983fan is scum.

[Skruffs]

hang on a sec, what you are saying now doesnt make sense. If you are a Criminologist, surely that DISPROVES Rands claim, because the odds of multiple Criminologists would be low amirite?
so, if you are a Criminologist, please explain why you didnt counter RA when he first claimed.
BM

[Skruffs]

Now read BM's last post.
If you guys want more, I'll get it, I thought other people were paying attention to the game.

[Skruffs]

Let's just stay focused. I want the day to end, too, and I want to see what Lalm is, and see what happens in the morning, etc, etc etc

[Lalmtreasteek]

So Skruffs hasn't read past Battle Mage's SECOND post that came after my claim on page 29?

This is truly shocking!

[Lalmtreasteek]

THe biggest reason i think BM might be scum is because he seems to be

still

trying to suggest that

rand

is more likely the fake claim

Note the word "still", yes he does still seem to be doing that, "still" in the sense of "to the point Skruffs chose to read"

[Skruffs]

Lalm - I've been watching a few people pretty closely. I don't have much else to do, honestly. Inasmuch, I have read all of BM's posts, even the entire posts he quotes at the bottom of each one (Which is unnecessary and irrelevant) closely. Which is why I'm talkign about what you guys are doing and what I think about it - becuase I get a very strong feeling that there is scum up to something between the two of you and one or two others. I'll take it you are disregarding that post and askign me to comb through the rest of BM's posts to find all the information which you yourself have already read, and responded to, and others have as well.
I *like* BM as a player - and after another game or two with him in it I feel that I have a loose grasp on how he plays.

I also notice he's not in the 13 or so people you've asked to have lynched/modkilled.

[Skruffs]

"I do not think Rand is more likely scum than Lalm based on the claims."
"I believe that they are both town. "
"I DO NOT WANT RAND LYNCHED. "
"i disagree about your 1 criminologist theory. "
"actually, you have brought up here the

1

weakness of Rands claim-the fact that the mafia COULD have guessed that the town would have a criminologist. "
"This of course makes the role of Criminologist quite realistic, and it wouldnt surprise me if a Mafia member suggested it as a decent false-claim.
Im not saying i think Rand is scum, as that is certainly not true, but i am saying that his claim isnt watertight to the extent that some people are pretending is the case."

So why is this a 'weakness' in

Rand's

claim, and not

lalm

's?

[Lalmtreasteek]

Aha the scum cornered!

You didn't address the subject at all in that post. There is no way that you could be watching closely Battle Mage and have the impression that he thinks Rand more likely scum than myself. And even the time he did say that, it is clear that his purpose was to question why I didn't counterclaim, and discussion followed about how common the role criminologist is which surely adjusted his impression. You have just totally missed all of that apparently, or else (MORE LIKELY) you are the opportunistic scum just mining Battle Mage's comments for whatever you can find.

And now you say "let's just stay focused." Stop asking Skruffs the hard questions.

vote Skruffs

If you have a question for me ask it.

You know well why Battle Mage was not on my list of players to modkill. If someone pointed out where Battle Mage is scummy I didn't see it or notice it, that's why I didn't ask for him to be lynched either.

I see you have another post for a separate reply, one second.

[Lalmtreasteek]

"I do not think Rand is more likely scum than Lalm based on the claims."
"I believe that they are both town. "
"I DO NOT WANT RAND LYNCHED. "
"i disagree about your 1 criminologist theory. "
"actually, you have brought up here the

1

weakness of Rands claim-the fact that the mafia COULD have guessed that the town would have a criminologist. "
"This of course makes the role of Criminologist quite realistic, and it wouldnt surprise me if a Mafia member suggested it as a decent false-claim.
Im not saying i think Rand is scum, as that is certainly not true, but i am saying that his claim isnt watertight to the extent that some people are pretending is the case."

So why is this a 'weakness' in

Rand's

claim, and not

lalm

's?

You here quote a bunch of statements none of which say Rand is more likely to be scum than myself.

The reason the particular weakness of Rand's claim isn't in my claim is that my claim has a different weakness (I could be copying Rand) which Battle Mage is aware of and realistically you should be too.

You are just picking up whatever isn't nailed down to use as evidence

[Skruffs]

[quote="lalms']The reason the particular weakness of Rand's claim isn't in my claim is that my claim has a different weakness (I could be copying Rand) which Battle Mage is aware of and realistically you should be too. [/quote]
I would think that similar claims would have similar weakenesses.Your claim, coming after Rand, is the same as rand's, however, it has

additional weaknesses

. That of being copied, for one. That of coming after you didn't counter claim,, and in fact acted like you didn't even know what the role DID at first.

Remember when you asked how it differed from a coroner's role? Now you are saying it's fairly common - though I don't see others not directly involved in thsi situation backing up that claim, just you and BM.


For some reason BM ignores the obvious, and tries to target anyone else other than you.

All of my scumbells are ring-ring-ringing. Maybe they've all been offset by really slopy townsmanship - if BM ahdn't started so obviously trying to defend you than the attention on you would have passed. Maybe. But now I'm going to just keep pushing for it.

[Battle Mage]

QFAT. Lalm basically said what i was thinking there, so thanks.
ill respond to the rest of Skruffs ravings in a minute.

"I do not think Rand is more likely scum than Lalm based on the claims."
"I believe that they are both town. "
"I DO NOT WANT RAND LYNCHED. "
"i disagree about your 1 criminologist theory. "
"actually, you have brought up here the

1

weakness of Rands claim-the fact that the mafia COULD have guessed that the town would have a criminologist. "
"This of course makes the role of Criminologist quite realistic, and it wouldnt surprise me if a Mafia member suggested it as a decent false-claim.
Im not saying i think Rand is scum, as that is certainly not true, but i am saying that his claim isnt watertight to the extent that some people are pretending is the case."

So why is this a 'weakness' in

Rand's

claim, and not

lalm

's?

You here quote a bunch of statements none of which say Rand is more likely to be scum than myself.

The reason the particular weakness of Rand's claim isn't in my claim is that my claim has a different weakness (I could be copying Rand) which Battle Mage is aware of and realistically you should be too.

You are just picking up whatever isn't nailed down to use as evidence