Mini 419: Farkle Mafia (Game Over)

[ThAdmiral]

I agree with coron. As for a better case than nocmen, maybe not, but without a deadline there's no reason to just accept a half-baked and weak one.

[Thesp]

They want to lynch me because I'm doing well in terms of points as far as I can tell.

I am uncertain as to where you are divining this information, and am uncomfortable with its skewed presentation. Here's part of it:

If he wants to pass there's no reason for us to stop him. That is unless you're scum with him.

If his score is low you're more likely to win. You know that you are (whatever alignment you are) and will help you out. The only reason to want others to do well is if you think that they are of similar alignment for some reason or another.

The reasoning here is suspect on two levels. First, let's presume for the sake of discussion that there are three scum remaining. (This line of reasoning is similar to what Adele hints at.) Let's suppose we give advice that is helpful to everyone, and benefits everyone in some way. (You could argue my advice did not in fact do this, my argument is that it will go out similarly to everyone.) If each player is somehow advataged similarly, presumably 7 town have been advantaged, and 3 scum have been advantaged. There are also possible arguments that scum get better advantages for who-knows-what reasons, yet I suspect on the balance the town is benefitted

more

than scum are. Given that, suggesting that we ought to limit our advice giving is extremely suspect to me. Second (and furthermore), suggesting people are scum together based on that reeks to me.

Unvote: Nocmen, Vote: Coron.

Time to get moving.

[Coron]

This game is based in who gets to a certain number first not the total number of points at the end of the day. This means that It does not help town to have a bunch of town people and a bunch of scum people having slightly higher numbers when you could just have one town person with slightly higher numbers.

Think of it this way, say that this information gives you an extra 10% points. If you use this information by yourself and don't tell other people then you would have to get significantly fewer points than your opponent for someone not on your side to end up getting to this one power. However if you give it to everyone then it's back to everyone having an equal chance at it. It seems to me that unless you know someone to be on the same side as you that it is advantagous not to help them.

[kilmenator]

Giving the advice allows for everyone to use it, being that there are probably more town than scum, this allows that town a better chance collectively, just so long as it benefits at least 3 townies (assuming that is the number of scum) because then it off sets the scum that it would benefit. At this point, I get the feel that both Thesp and Coron are town, although I do disagree with Coron.

Also, Admiral, without putting pressure on people, we can not really get a good read on them, this is a great game, but it is not advantageous to discussion because our focus is on points instead of scum catching... discussion will benefit all of us.

[Coron]

No, it doesn't. This is a goal based game. If everyone ran the same algorithim everyone would have a 10% chance of winning. Let's say your advantage gives you another 9% chance for ease of math.
You: 19%
Else: 9%
6 town else= 54%+19%=73%
If you balance it out:
You:10%
Else: 10%
6 town else=60%+10%=70%
With your advantage kept to yourself you have a 3% better chance of getting the role to a town player.

[Coron]

Original Roll String: 6d6

6 6-Sided Dice: (4, 6, 6, 1, 2, 6) = 25

[Coron]

Total score: 2900
Round score: 1000
Not worth going on.
Pass.

[kilmenator]

Vote Coron

.
He's likely to reach 10000 very soon this way. We'd better lynch him before he does.

Unless you know that coron is not pro-town, you have no reason not to want him to do well.

Anyone up for a Coron lynch?

Me neither, unless you have some reasons behind this.
I really don't think we can read too much into the helpful advice given by thesp, it seemed to me to just be a friendly gesture, although not a very strategic one (for the points brought up afterwards by coron).

Points are not the point of this game, killing mafia is that point of this game, points are just a benefit of the set up. We should be scum hunting, not worrying so much about points.

I looked at the last vote count, and I saw that Nocmen's vote on Thesp wasn't registered. I also see that Nocmen didn't correct the mod, which seems kind of weird, IMO.
I'm not reading too much into this, but I thought I'll mention it.[/b].

No one really commented on this, and I thought I would highlight it to see if there is any specualtion about it...

Unvote, Vote Nocmen

. Looks good.
Still waiting for my turn

Why are you voting him? Because he speculated on night actions? You seem a little vote jumpy to me...

Are we ready to lynch Coron yet?

This quote is intersting just because CES's vote is not even on Coron at this point, it is on Nocmen...

With all this said, and honestly, there really is not much to go on as discussion has been very little through this game, possibly because people think we are playing farkle and not mafia with a farkle twist to it, but anyway...
I am going to

vote:Cognito Ergo Sum

for the reasons listed above.

Also, about the math thingy and the encouraging to keep rolling ... the fact that I have no points would encourage me to want the rest of the town to do the best that they can right?

[Coron]

Vote Coron

.
He's likely to reach 10000 very soon this way. We'd better lynch him before he does.

Unless you know that coron is not pro-town, you have no reason not to want him to do well.

Actually mathematically CES should not root for me, and in fact, should root against me, unless he somehow knows I have the same alignment as he does.

[kilmenator]

Vote Coron

.
He's likely to reach 10000 very soon this way. We'd better lynch him before he does.

Unless you know that coron is not pro-town, you have no reason not to want him to do well.

Actually mathematically CES should not root for me, and in fact, should root against me, unless he somehow knows I have the same alignment as he does.

Alright, I am not by any means a mathematical genius, but... to end the argument about whether or not we should help our fellow players or not,

For the sake of argument let us assume that there are 3 scum and 1 SK, making four anti-town forces. There are twelve people in this game. so, 4 out of 12 chances you will be anti-town, making the odds 1 in 4, but 8 out of 12 chances you will be town, making the odds 3 in 4. Therefore a person is 3 times more likely to be town than scum, so, CES is three times more likely to want you to do well than he is to not want you to do well, being that you are 3 times more likely to be town.

[ThAdmiral]

Stats can prove anything. This goes to coron as well. Mafia is not a game of numbers it is a game of words.

[Coron]

Stats and logic have there place if mafia. Cops, roleblockers, doctors, and other such roles make logic important in end game.

Statisically speaking everyone that is not you in your thing Kilminator, is 7/11 town. You are 1 town. Basically there is a better chance you are town than he, or anyone else is town. In general, I agree helping people in mafia is good, just in this case, the fact that it hurts you outweighs that.

[Thesp]

Still here, still happy with my vote.

[Dagger]

I agree with coron. As for a better case than nocmen, maybe not, but without a deadline there's no reason to just accept a half-baked and weak one.

True. We'll just keep the discussion going on in the meantime.

At this point, I get the feel that both Thesp and Coron are town, although I do disagree with Coron.

For some reason, this jumps out at me as being scummy.

I looked at the last vote count, and I saw that Nocmen's vote on Thesp wasn't registered. I also see that Nocmen didn't correct the mod, which seems kind of weird, IMO.
I'm not reading too much into this, but I thought I'll mention it.[/b].

No one really commented on this, and I thought I would highlight it to see if there is any specualtion about it...

I suppose it's because he's intentionally lurking? In fact, I would like to hear from Nocmen regarding this.

OMG, my turn is after Admiral's!

[whine]Admiral...[/whine]

[Cogito Ergo Scum]

Vote Coron

.
He's likely to reach 10000 very soon this way. We'd better lynch him before he does.

Unless you know that coron is not pro-town, you have no reason not to want him to do well.

I think Coron already explained this rather well. At this point, it's best for me to want nobody but myself win the Farkle game.

Unvote, Vote Nocmen

. Looks good.
Still waiting for my turn

Why are you voting him? Because he speculated on night actions? You seem a little vote jumpy to me...

Yes, it was because of the night actions. While that alone isn't enough for a case, it's usually a thing that gets a wagon going. Then, according to the defending player's responses, you can unvote or stay on the wagon. Nocmen's responses haven't really been satisfying. That's probably because he's been lurking lately.

Are we ready to lynch Coron yet?

This quote is intersting just because CES's vote is not even on Coron at this point, it is on Nocmen...

Ya so?

Also, about the math thingy and the encouraging to keep rolling ... the fact that I have no points would encourage me to want the rest of the town to do the best that they can right?

The rest of the town, yes. But you don't know who the rest of the town is, and therefore you should only root for yourself.

[Coron]

Still here, still happy with my vote.

why

[Thesp]

Because I think you're full of it, and giving suspect reasons for your early attacks.

[Adele]

Sorry, been busy over Easter.

Would be up for Coronlynch (standing policy and all that)

[Coron]

Policy? Explain this policy, and why, in general it is a good policy.

[Adele]

God, when did you get so po-faced?

To answer your question, see EmpTyger's title.

I'm ok with lynching you

this game

because you're scummy. And you know it.

[Mojo]

I, personally, wouldn't lynch someone in this game because of his tactic to win the

farkle

game.
I don't want to read too much into the farkle tactics of each player, because each player has a different view. Some think it's best if everyone will do well, some think you should only root for yourself. None of these tactics looks scummy to me.

I don't see a reason to change my vote right now as Nocmen didn't post any content that I can see, and he still has an unanswered business.

Are we skipping The Admiral's turn? It's been 3 days.

[Coron]

I'm under suspicion for calling it suspicious that someone help another person win the farkle game(I stand by this as it would only help scum helping his partner).

Also, I have limited access until monday.

[Thesp]

I've played Farkle a good bit before (though usually with the variant where you can run off other people's points), so I may have some insight. Take these as you like.

Farkle: General Tips

(There will be nuances and variances to these tips, but I think on the whole they can help everyone maximize their points.)

-

Shoot for 350 points.

You can reasonably make this amount of points most of the time. Also, missing a turn on points is killer.
-

Don't roll 2 or fewer dice.

The odds of scoring points off of them are outweighed by how easily you can lose what you have.
-

Early in your rolls, keep few dice.

You'd like to average 100+ points per die with your first 3 rolls if possible. If you roll a 1 and 2 5's, dump the 5's, you're more likely to get 3-of-a-kinds and other 1's this way. Keep few dice, unless you really want to hold a couple of 1's you just rolled.
-

Score every turn, if possible.

If you've got to take 250, do it. Scoring consistently makes you more likely to win.

I hope this helps. There may be some disagreements on these ideas, but on the whole, I think they'll help. Good luck!

[Dagger]

Something that slipped my notice the first time round.

@I don't know about anybody else but I thought that meta gaming was generally a frowned-upon tactic. We should take each game on their own merits.

I have always thought that playstyle analysis was a valid strategy?

To answer your question, see EmpTyger's title.

I'm ok with lynching you

this game

because you're scummy. And you know it.

EmpTyger's title? What's that?

Also, can you elaborate on the 2nd sentence? I am highly curious now. You have played with Coron before, yes?

@Thesp: Thanks for the tips!

Also, can we like really really skip Admiral's turn?

[Coron]

God, when did you get so po-faced?

To answer your question, see EmpTyger's title.

I'm ok with lynching you

this game

because you're scummy. And you know it.

So the policy is lynch scummy people? I have that policy too.