NY 170: Georgetown II (Game Over)

[Huntress]

Vote Count 5.6

petroleumjelly (4) - Thor665, emeraldemon, kabooooom, Aegor
Thesp (2) - inHimshallibe, Rainbowdash
Rainbowdash (2) - Thesp, petroleumjelly
Sotty7 (1) - HighShroomish

Not voting (1) - Sotty7

With ten players alive, it takes six votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day Five is Monday, 14th April 20.00 BST, (in (expired on 2014-04-14 19:00:00)).

[HighShroomish]

@everyone not on the PJ wagon
Say for a minute that the person you're voting is actually town. At this point, do you believe that there is scum on the PJ wagon.

[HighShroomish]

@everyone not on the PJ wagon
Say for a minute that the person you're voting is actually town. At this point, do you believe that there is scum on the PJ wagon.

[kabooooom]

@everyone not on the PJ wagon
Say for a minute that the person you're voting is actually town. At this point, do you believe that there is scum on the PJ wagon.

and what do you think?? you are not on pj wagon either.

[Sotty7]

Do you think that scum would never bus at any point in a mountainous game? Especially with ABR and Bulb as scum?

I think maybe a one or the other could happen but not both. Especially bulb, I never felt he was in danger of being lynched until we got pushed into a deadline crunch and people compromised. bulb was much stronger than ABR and you can see that by the fact that there was never a serious wagon on him until the end. I think your reasoning surrounding the bussing and lack of bussing is pretty weak considering you have set it up to basically clear you and cast doubt on people that actually voted scum. It's making it hard to take you seriously.

I think that Bulb was actually trying to bus him but he couldn't ever get it going, kept bouncing off him and then back onto emo. I just think it was a complete failure on his part to be able to pull the bus off. All Bulb was trying to do was tie emo and Garmr. I don't see scum do nothing but try and tie together two town the entire game. Trying to tie together town to scum makes sense, especially with the really bizarre relationship between Garmr and Bulb. Being aggressive towards a partner really isn't all that abnormal either, it tends to far more be personality clash than anything else. Not sure I have seen players that get along as scum and then hate each other as town.

This was partly my reasoning for suspecting Thesp. It just seemed much too forced when bulb pushed on both emo and Garmr linking them together in his "amazing" case. From what I remember he also put a really weak vote on Garmr the start of day two or three and was still mostly pushing emo. It was out of place.

1.) I am not counting Sotty7 as a Townread. But in the event I am lynched I do not want my last words on Sotty7 to be that I think she is scum. I still think there is a good potential she is scum, but I find it less likely than I did before.

I... Okay I got nothing.

and what do you think?? you are not on pj wagon either.

What he said.

[Thesp]

@everyone not on the PJ wagon
Say for a minute that the person you're voting is actually town. At this point, do you believe that there is scum on the PJ wagon.

Yes. (kabooooom)

[Thor665]

@PJ - in answer to your #2, I don't care whether you thought I was or wasn't being vacuous - I was simply noting that it seemed iffy (or namby, or hypocritical - whichever word pleases you) to complain about me dismissing your stance while, likewise dismissing mine, and like me, using harsh language. If you disagree that vacuous is harsh (or insulting or demeaning or whatever word pleases you) then my counter to your issue with me can be the same. At that point I dismiss your complaint. That's what I'm saying. I am fine with you finding my argument to be empty - I disagree, but I am not emotionally hurt by your charge nor do I care to get into the debate since a no lynch seems unlikely and therefore I don't need to convince others my position is right.

@Sotty - is a vote coming into play anytime soon?

[HighShroomish]

@kab and @sotty (almost misspelled that again) Can you just answer the fucking question. I'M TRYING TO DO STUFF. Except you kab. Oh, and you too, sotty. Wait, neither of you should give a flying fuck because the question wasn't directed towards either of you. And yes, I do. And sotty, I ditto Thor.

[Aegor]

Can we lynch PJ? I feel bad making him go through all that effort for nothing.

[inHimshallibe]

unvote

This will probably be a vote for PJ.

I have time now. I am going to organize my thoughts.

[inHimshallibe]

I think it's down to PJ and Thor for me, really, with Thesp for peace of mind.

After rereading the first three days, I feel that Chevre/pj and Thor come across as scummiest in relation to Albert. Thor voted ABR and quickly unvoted at first opportunity on Day Two. On Day Three he waited, waited, waited to vote ABR, which I've already noted and still feel very iffy about.

Chevre/pj had this gem that I had forgotten:

This ABR wagon is creepily quick; at first glance it feels like people know something this quick probably won't be the actual lynch and so scum are bussing ABR. But that still makes him scum?

Also I don't get why people are replacing into games if they aren't going to read the game? That meta needs to stop; you aren't really being helpful if you replace in and don't read, you're just looking the part.

I'm going to look at yessiree and the end-of-day wagons a bit more in-depth later tonight.

Rounding up thoughts re: Bulbazak now.

[inHimshallibe]

Oh, I meant to list Thor's positives:

Posts like

I haven't read this game. I won't. There's too many players and too many pages.

Yeah, I felt the same way.
So, y'know, I just read the page I was on and played from there.
Of course I'm town, so...

and

HighShroomish (1) - Bulbazak
Aegor (1) - emeraldemon
inHimshallibe (1) - Zdenek
Bulbazak (1) - Nero Cain

Not voting (3) - kabooooom, Garmr, Matias

A listing of people whose votes are currently doing jack and spit.
It's a depressingly large list of people.
Let's work on this and make it a less shameful list.

@Bulb - your vote is super weak because there is literally no support there. Just move, move now.
@Emeralddemon - meh, Sotty is at work on you, carry on with that as you will.
@Zdenek - I actually agree with that read and like the vote, heck if you can get one other vote there I promise to move to support i - but you should get noisy sooner rather than later.
@Nero - replace out you useless sack.
@Kabooom - replace out you useless sack. Or , in your case, self vote.
@Whoever just replaced Garmr, I forget already - get reads and vote in play pl0x.
@Matias - are you even still in this game?

Are just overall town sounding posts, ie posts I would not expect a scum to formulate.

[inHimshallibe]

Looking for dirt in regards to Bulbazak, found the following

Everyone: Top three scumreads. Go.

TonyPF

Garmr

Aegor

I think you should push for my lynch over the other 2 if your scum reading me. You start pushing hard now and we will have our little back and forth town see's your scum and i'm town you get lynched we have a scum flip then I get night killed.

This post is pretty aggressive for a mention of suspicion that isn't even a vote.

Saying nothing about Bulba, only attacking his main opponent.





Also, Chevre goes out of the way to provide lengthy NK analysis, all to strike it from the record with:

In addition to Bulbazak's reaction, my biggest hesitance with ABR is that yessiree NK is like a giant glowing neon sign saying "ABR IS SCUM YOU SHOULD LYNCH HIM!!!!"

vote: petroleumjelly

[inHimshallibe]

That's some pretty pithy work for being gone so long, but I'm tired, and those are the Cliffs.

[petroleumjelly]

Have you read my posts at all? If not, read this one.

I completely agree that Chevre defended Albert B. Rampage. I actually think it is one of the biggest indicators that he (my slot) is Town precisely because of the way he went about it. It boils down to this:

Scum do not perform nightkill analysis, say that it points to their partner, and then decide their partner is Town because it is "too obvious."

Stop and think about how scum are

actually

going to play going into Day Two. Scum

do not

want Town to seriously probe into the nightkill that

does

point to scum, because it results in votes. Exactly like Tony PFs vote on Albert B. Rampage after reading Chevre's nightkill analysis when replacing into the game.

In this case, that post does not stand alone, because Bulbazak immediately tried to wave away thinking about the nightkill:

First, NKs are a big mess of WIFOM, so I'm not going to use 1 kill to justify lynching anyone.

Gut read scum deflection.

In this case, it is pretty clear that Bulbazak

was

trying to get players not to think about the nightkill -- his play shows a consistent defense of Albert B. Rampage. And for this game, the best way to defend Albert B. Rampage was to completely ignore the nightkill or to try and dismiss it as WIFOM.

Not

to actively point out, "gee, this nightkill sure points to Albert B. Rampage."

Basically, by voting me, you are buying the theory that scum killed Yessiree because he was (in part) a threat to Albert B. Rampage. On Day Two, Chevre decides to make a post that points out how obviously the Yessiree nightkill points to Albert B. Rampage... but then concludes Albert B. Rampage is Town (so he is not even going for bussing credit). Meanwhile, Bulbazak tries to get the Town to ignore the nightkill and actively defends Albert B. Rampage. This play would be incoherent. The better option is to just leave the nightkill completely alone.

I kindly request an unvote. If you actually mull over the game, it should become more and more apparent that Chevre was, and I am, Town.

By voting me you are also accepting that I would replace into a game as scum and play as I have played. I guess I will pull out the big guns -- I have won exactly two Scummies on this site -- one for Best Scum and one for Best Replacement. I put as much effort as I can afford to put into my games, and I do not feel like my effort in this game has been as bad as players have suggested; I simply have been slowed by real life issues, and the fact that I replaced into a 90/100-page game that I felt I needed to read twice over due to the massive change in information we had after yesterday's lynch. As scum, I have to think I would replace in confidently, assess the situation (which would involve "hmm, my only remaining partner is about to be lynched, how should I play this?"), formulate a plan, and take immediate action and then justify it later. It is beyond easy to pick a few weak players, or find likely counterwagons, and argue against them for a lynch continually; it is equally easy to call for blood against a partner who is a lost cause.

The reason my play has

appeared

lackluster is that I did not come into the game trying to fix my image, or trying to look Town, or trying to achieve any one particular goal. This is because I was instead trying to use my time to honestly and thoughtfully read the game while giving my reads and trying to decide who is scum.

Will respond to the old emogirl123 post per kabooooom's request.

[petroleumjelly]

In response to emogirl123's Post #2210, there is actually not much to discuss.

emogirl123's post seems to rely on the mistaken assumption that Chevre understood emogirl123's posting style and her motives. She assumes that because she thinks she sufficiently explained her Towntelling strategy (specifically, when she did not vote Maenara) that Chevre could not continue to be confused. However, Chevre's post

consistently

show that he

was

, in fact, not understanding why emogirl123 would play the way she was playing.

When emogirl123 described her style -- which was to purposefully post things in such a way that she knew people would think she was Town -- Chevre was further confused because that is exactly how

scum

are expected to play:

emogirl, you're perplexing me. Good town shouldn't focus on being read as town, they should be finding scum.

emogirl123 also tries to draw a paperthin line between "I was managing my wagon by Towntelling" and "I was trying to get Townspeople to unvote me"; whatever distinction she is drawing, I think it is a distinction without a difference. Scum are not going to unvote you because you are "Towntelling"; but Town who are starting to question whether you are actually scum

are

going to unvote you. Just as Chevre did. In fact, Chevre is the only player in the game to be so confused by emogirl123 (and in particular, wondering how her play could come from scum) the he unvoted her. While I agree his original vote was not particularly good (although I will note that Chevre continued to stand by his reasoning, which

does

make some sense in context), his unvote was

not

bad.

~

And before it is pointed out in some snide way by somebody, yes, I am fully aware that I am arguing that I am Town while also discussing the general proposition that Townspeople should try to find scum over trying to look Town. But in this case I am

arguing

why I am Town (as opposed to purposefully designing my posts to cause doubts or dropping "Towntells"), and I am doing so under imminent threat of lynch.

[kabooooom]

unvote

vote: rainbowgul

[Thor665]

Thor voted ABR and quickly unvoted at first opportunity on Day Two. On Day Three he waited, waited, waited to vote ABR, which I've already noted and still feel very iffy about.

On Day 3 I voted him immediately, created the wagon on him, had the wagon momentum die, went elsewhere, had the momentum return, and then voted ABR.
Yes, true and classic bussing.

[Thesp]

At this point, RainbowDash, HighShroomish, and Sotty7: you're the only ones not voting for someone with at least 2 votes. Please rectify this, or provide some good reason for doing so.

[HighShroomish]

I was about to put PJ at L-1, saw inHim do it, and now that kab has unvoted (for reasons unkown)

VOTE: PJ

And my question still stands.

[Aegor]

PJ has provided plenty of content. We have other content to examine if PJ flips town, and we are nearing deadline.

I would like someone to hammer unless there is a strong objection.

[Thesp]

PJ has provided plenty of content. We have other content to examine if PJ flips town, and we are nearing deadline.

I would like someone to hammer unless there is a strong objection.

I'd like to first see kabooooom and Sotty7 answer the question HighShroomish is specifically asking them (even if I haven't the slightest clue why he wants it answered):

@everyone not on the PJ wagon
Say for a minute that the person you're voting is actually town. At this point, do you believe that there is scum on the PJ wagon.

(I think there's an implied answer from kabooooom, but would like confirmation.)

[emeraldemon]

As scum, I have to think I would replace in confidently, assess the situation (which would involve "hmm, my only remaining partner is about to be lynched, how should I play this?"), formulate a plan, and take immediate action and then justify it later. It is beyond easy to pick a few weak players, or find likely counterwagons, and argue against them for a lynch continually; it is equally easy to call for blood against a partner who is a lost cause.

The reason my play has appeared lackluster is that I did not come into the game trying to fix my image, or trying to look Town, or trying to achieve any one particular goal. This is because I was instead trying to use my time to honestly and thoughtfully read the game while giving my reads and trying to decide who is scum.

Maybe this is off topic, but I have to ask, is this really the meta you want to set for yourself? As I understand it you're saying that if you seem confident and directed on a replace in, you're probably scum? I will say that the large number of "hard to read" players in your list does you no favors in my eyes, but I'm guessing you don't actually want "can't sort the players" to be a towntell for you.

That said, this has been interesting and I don't want a hammer quite yet, so

VOTE: Rainbowdash

Rainbowdash, I can find plenty of instances of you defending ABR or directing away from his wagon (1788, 1803, 1808, 1843). And yet as I read your case against Thor (2114,2151) it seems largely about Thor not pushing ABR or directing away from his wagon. What's up?


Thor, what do you think about Aegor lately?

[kabooooom]

Nop..i dont think pj is scum anymore!
I m voting rainbow cos I suspect her the most! There is someone I find scummy but there is no point in declaring it now.

as for hammer, dont do it. There are still 3 days and consider reading pj's wagon once more. Let the wagon be at L-1, I will hammer myself when there is one or less day left.

[emeraldemon]

Wait, I'm thinking the same thing as kaboom? No I'm really paranoid...