Mini 443 - Tapioca Mafia - Game over!!

[Earwig]

Vote: Ripley

because those damn things scared me in that movie.

[Earwig]

Unvote: Ripley

Even though it was lynch -3, It's a little early to tell anyone's alignment yet. It would have been nice to know what roles exist in this game, though.

[Earwig]

Sorry - not intentionally lurking. I'll post thoughts soon.

[Earwig]

I would really like to hear from the nonposters before I do anything. I am leaning towards Khelvaster, but I don't want to do anything too rash. So, can you guys post something? Like your reactions to Khelvaster? Favorite color? Anything! Well, preferably something substantial, but...

Some people's kids, I tell you what...

My favorite color is blue, but I like red too, as well as combinations of both colors.

Seriously, I'm sort of going along with the Khelvaster thing but need to re-read to see why. For now:

FoS: Khelvaster

[Earwig]

I'm here everyone. I truly don't mean to lurk. I will do my best to post before I go to sleep tonight - might be around 1AM central.

[Earwig]

I'm really sorry guys - I got caught up in day to day stuff. I don't generally say a lot. That has gotten me into trouble in just about every game I've been in. One of these days, maybe I'll learn. Anyway.......

I'm not sure if this is necessary, but:

Un-FoS: Khelvaster

until I can find more evidence against him. I'm re-reading everything. I'm only up through about page 5 or 6, but here's what I have so far.

Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 3:03 am Post subject: 116

..................As I said, I'm most suspicious of MightyFireball because he continues to go along with what is being said without any attempt to make his own analysis. That shows lack of interest. Yet he has quite a few posts.

Lack of interest in helping the town plus maintaining a high post count equals trouble.

Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 9:53 am Post subject: 119

D8p, I did indeed make the first analysis of Khelvaster's post in which he incriminated pickemgenius. That analysis post was post number 102. It may not have been particularly elaborate, but it wasn't based off of anyone else's analysis. I'm not entirely sure if you missed that one, or if you just didn't think it was good enough to count.

Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 10:12 am Post subject: 120

No, MightyFireball I hadn't missed it, but I'm not saying it was not good enough, for goodness sake. I marked it down as unhelpful, which, to be fair, was a little harsh.

Mild attacks always worry me more than strong ones - I can't help thinking the defender and attacker are in cahoots, firing blanks.

Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 2:11 pm Post subject: 121

Well, I generally don't want to appear too aggressive, lest someone think I was scum trying very hard to get an innocent lynched. I do see your point about mild attacks, but the opposite, overly aggressive attacks, are not without suspicion either.

These posts make me think of scum chatting with each other. This kinda confirms it, IMO:

Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 10:12 am Post subject: 120

…….Mild attacks always worry me more than strong ones - I can't help thinking the defender and attacker are in cahoots, firing blanks.

[Earwig]

.............

Lynching lurkers does us nothing. If they are lurking, yet online, that says something, but for all we know Earwig doesn't frequent the site.

We

do

know. He has made 11 posts in other games since his last post in this game. You can use the Search option to find out stuff like this.

I apologize for giving more attention to my other games. I will do my besat to not let that happen any more.

[Earwig]

.............He apologizes, (a play on people's emotions) and then says that he will never do it again. But he never offers an explanation! I don't really care what it is. I just want one, so that we have something to go on against him, should we choose to pursue.

And his FOS on Khelvaster seemed like an obviously easy pick to FOS because you can't do a light skim over this game without running into a least one or two posts that show people voicing suspicion on Khelvaster. I think Earwig wanted to provide a post in which he actually did something, and so he chose an innocent looking FOS on someone that many people find suspicious so as to avoid suspicion on his own.

I did explain why I haven't posted much:

I'm really sorry guys - I got caught up in day to day stuff...........

I did not, however, say I would never do it again. I said I would do my best to not let it happen again. That was in another post, though:

...............I apologize for giving more attention to my other games. I will do my besat to not let that happen any more.

I wish I had seen that spelling mistake!

I will admit I didn't read as much as I should have before I FoS'd Khelvaster, which is why I Un-FoS'd him. I've been seeing quite a few comments questioning Khelvaster's alignment (no I'm not trying to get him to claim) during my read, and re-read.

I was trying to do too much. I am remedying that situation.

A lot of my appearant inactivity is due to my ADD - I can either super focus on things, or get very easily distracted. I'm not trying to play on emotions here, just trying to explain.

@MF - I was thinking the timing of the posts, most of the ones I listed were right together. Plus the last quote in my post 207 arose suspicions in me:

..........

Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 10:12 am Post subject: 120

…….Mild attacks always worry me more than strong ones - I can't help thinking the defender and attacker are in cahoots, firing blanks.

It seemd to me like they were tossing

mild attacks

back and forth between each other, at least a little bit.

But, as I stated in the same post, I haven't voted or FoS'd because I am still getting caught up.

..........until I can find more evidence against (them). I'm re-reading everything. I'm only up through about page 5 or 6, but here's what I have so far........

[Earwig]

I see Khelvaster has WIFOM'd again.

[Earwig]

I was doing a quick skim through, and I came acrost this interesting post.

I don't really understand why everyone suddenly moved to earwig so fast. Just because he isn't talking much, does that really implicate him in being mafia?

While it could be considered over-reaching, I thought I would voice my opinion on this one. I have suspicion that we have some distantcing scum here. One person acts extremely scummy, gets a bunch of votes on him, and then, with a lynch -1, another scum casually, and after much discussion, puts the hammer down, thereby attempting to clear his own name. This is a strategy I have seen before, where the mafia discussed it beforehand that one person would sacrifice themselves. I don't know if it is the case here, but it seems strange that Khelvaster would worry about the "bandwagon" of two people switching to Earwig. I can only deduce that, assuming that my scenario above is true, that Khlevaster's job is to get the town to vote for him, and then another, eg. Earwig, would put the hammer down. But it is only speculation. What does the rest of the town think?

Or maybe I am really scum acting like I am trying to protect EW and seem like we're collaborating just so you'll lynch him

, knowing that he really is a townie. You never know . Seriously though, we should wait another day for him to see what he's like before we draw any conclusions.

On another note, I never noticed the collaboration between d8p and fireball--it was so interspersed with the rest of the stuff that it looked perfectly natural. Now that the quotes were taken in isolation, I have to agree with Earwig that it does look really suspicious.

FoS: d8p

I am still not going to retract my MF vote--between that series of really ambigious posts of his and this new thing between him and d8p, I'm strongly convinced he is scum. What are your takes on this?

[Earwig]

@Earwig: wait, so are you saying that youy believe MF and d8p are scum because:

a) MF and d8p were mildly attacking each other, and:
b) you were told this was scummy behavior by...d8p???

This seems like circular logic to me.

I was just pointing out something I thought a little strange. It seemes d8p was being a little hypocritical in his statements. That whole exchange seems odd to me. If you'll notice, I didn't place a vote, since just those few posts don't seem reason to vote or FoS someone.

I see pickemgenius thinks it is obvious. Maybe it is. For me, I sometimes need the obvious stated.

[Earwig]

............
The only way to be 100% sure of anyone being "innocent" or scum, is
a. to be lynched
b. to get NK'ed

The other way to know 100% of anyone being scum or town is if you're scum yourself.


I'm not saying "You" literally, PEG, I'm saying it figuratively.

[Earwig]

Yeah, I went back and skimmed d8p's posts, and I didn't find a defence against a possible pairing of he and myself. Khel, could you give a post number where d8p denies this? Thanks.

Are you publicly asking one of your scum-buddies for help in defending yourself??

[Earwig]

I'm here. Sorry, I truly don't mean to lurk. I've been researching, but was never very good at it. I've also not been feeling very well - am going to the dr this afternoon.

[Earwig]

Alright. I guess I've put myself in this position. I am quite willing to claim here - I'd like to survive D1 if possible. My appearant lurking is not If at least 1 or 2 would be kind enough to unvote, I will make it worth your while.

[Earwig]

I don't have a lack of interest at all. I check here several times a day - I just get overwhelmed. Anyway, I said I'd claim if need be - It seems my slightest hope of survival will be to claim, and hope y'all believe me.

I am the vigilante. I'm pretty sure there's only one of me. I can prove I'm the vig, too. Give me a name to NK, and I will. I realize that I'll probably be NK'd as well, unless the doctor, if there is one, decides to protect me.

[Earwig]

..................A question I would like to ask Earwig is whether he has a restriction on how many times he can nightkill. .....

I can PM one name per night.

[Earwig]

...........There is one way he can prove himself to be a vigilante--get the cop to investigate him. That is not only the simplest way, it is the only way. The fact that he is trying to use something to show conclusive proof points towards him not wanting to be investigated by a cop. If it hadn't been for that second sentence offering supposed proof, I would still hold doubts in my mind about him and campaign towards MightyFireball. However, with a post clearly designed to lure a cop away from investigation of his obviously suspicious character with misleading proof, he has incriminated himself.

Maybe this post is so big, it will take him another 3 days to process...

I welcome an investigation by the cop, if there is one in this game. However, that might force the cop to claim.

[Earwig]

I was fixin' to post my suspicions about MFB, but as I reviewed his posts up through page 8, I didn't really find consistent scumminess. Just in skimming though, Khelvaster seems suspicious, but I haven't pinned anything down yet.

[Earwig]

I just reread what Earwig wrote, and found two problems. Small one first:

I don't have a lack of interest at all. I check here several times a day - I just get overwhelmed. Anyway, I said I'd claim if need be - It seems my slightest hope of survival will be to claim, and hope y'all believe me.

This was posted on Friday. However, on Sunday, you will noticed we have had a grand total of 18 posts, all of which have been brief. You haven't posted since Friday--is 6 posts a day too much for you to handle? If so, you would have dropped from this game a long time ago and gotten a replacement, not lurked here................

This one game is not my whole life, nor is it anyone elses for that matter. Between this game and everything else that happens in life, I sometimes get overwhelmed. I am remedying those situations, though.

As I hinted in my last post, there's something about you (Khelvaster) that seems quite scummy, but I can't put my finger on it just yet. I'm not ready to vote or FoS you, or even IGMEOY yet. I'm not sure if the rewst of the town would want to lynch you, of ig I should NK you. Before I make a decision for myself, I'd like to finish my research.

[Earwig]

I can't quite put my finger on it, Khel - that's why I haven't done anything more than mention the feeling. I get accused of being scum a lot, and I'm only now beginning to realize what I'm doing wrong.

[Earwig]

..........Also, regarding my apparently incoherent posts, they are slightly more coherent than MF's posts, and since I was trying to explain what MF said,

I don't agree with this statement at all. I think your posts are way more incoherent than anyone elses. I'm not sure if that's necessarily scummy, though.

[Earwig]

He could very well be lying. I have seen it a couple of times before. Once was a game I was in - a townie, acting similar to the way Khel is acting, claimed cop - he even faked an investigation. The real cop was forced to claim. In another game, one in which I was not a participant in, a friend of mine claimed cop, but he was actually scum. The real cop tried to counter-claim, but he was a newbie cop, so nobody believed him. My friends logic was quite solid, which is different from Khel here. I don't necessarily believe Khel's cop claim.

[Earwig]

Fair enough. I actually feel the same way. That's why I welcomed a cop investigation - post 439, page 18, if there even is a cop in this game.

[Earwig]

I was getting close to voting for Khel. If he really is the cop, I'm glad I didn't vote. I really didn't want to be the deciding vote though.

[Earwig]

.......................................................
I am pointing out the facts. I am saying the doctor and mafia are in a WIFOM because that's true.

It is mostly directed at the mafia, hoping they will go after the doc instead of having a 50% chance of killing me.

It is too risky for anyone to try--either townie or mafia. I don't want a 50% chance of losing, and neither does mafia. It is in everyone's benefit for the mafia not to go after me or earwig. Similarly, it is in the doc's best interest to protect me or earwig, in case the mafia does decide to go for the 50% chance. Do you follow my logic?

bolding added be earwig

Something about Khel's posts has been gnawing at the back of my mind throughout the game. I think his last couple of posts has helped me realize he doesn't seem like much of a pro-town player. I really don't like what I think Khel is saying here. If I'm reading this right, Khel would rather the doc was NK'd instead of him. I can't imagine ANY pro-town player wanting the doc NK'd over themselves. Nobody but Ecto and the doc, if there is one, know who the doc is, just as nobody but Ecto and the cop knows who the cop is, assuming there is one. As I've said a couple of times before, I welcome a cop investigation. I would also gladly sacrifice myself to save the doc, or the real cop for that matter, if it would come to that. I could easily be proven innocent by a cop investigation. Although, I suppose that if Khel isn't the real cop, assuming there is one, I don't think it would be a good idea to out the real cop yet. I'm not sure how to determine if Khel is the real cop. For that matter, I'm not sure how to convince the rest of y'all I am the Vig, other than what I've already put out there. As has been suggested by a couple of people, I'm perfectly happy deciding for myself who to NK, but I would appreciate some suggestions.

One thing I've seen throughout his posts, is Khelvaster trying to allign himself with me. I really don't appreciate this one bit. I have no connection whatsoever with Khel, other than we're playing in the same MS game right now.

Vote: Khelvaster

If I counted correctly, I believe that puts him at Lynch -2.

@HungryJoe - I assume HoS means Hand of Suspicion?

[Earwig]

I don't think Khelvaster should be suggesting scum nightkill strategy in the thread. But lynching him is unacceptable today, unless he's scum and a real cop wants to counterclaim.

I think it's that nightkill strategy suggestion that makes me think he's trying to tell his scum buddies what to do if he gets lynched. That's assuming Khel is scum claiming cop, which as I've said, I have seen it done in at least one game:

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:10 pm Post subject: 470

He could very well be lying. I have seen it a couple of times before. Once was a game I was in - a townie, acting similar to the way Khel is acting, claimed cop - he even faked an investigation. The real cop was forced to claim.

In another game, one in which I was not a participant in, a friend of mine claimed cop, but he was actually scum. The real cop tried to counter-claim, but he was a newbie cop, so nobody believed him. My friends logic was quite solid, which is different from Khel here.

I don't necessarily believe Khel's cop claim.

For now

Unvote: Khelvaster

but

FoS: Khelvaster

Patrick, just out of curiosity, why do you say it is unacceptable to lynch Khelvaster today?

[Earwig]

I would have to agree with not lynching a non-counter-claimed cop D1, but I still don't necessarily believe him. His weird behavior could be explained, if he's actually as much of a newb as he says he is. I've seen similar behavior from newb cops before.

[Earwig]

That would be a scum for a cop tradeoff, one which is bad for the town.

Wait.

Town outnumbers the scum for sure, we know that (duh)

I'm not sure why they would why they would want a 1 for 1 trade off.


Anyone care to elaborate why they'd (scum) would want a 1 for 1 trade?


I'm honestly curious.

Scum don't want a one for one trade generally.

The bad part for the town would be they'd lose the cop, which would be good for scum because there'd ne nobody left that could definatively find them guilty. However, there's one less scum, which is good for the town, except they lose their only investigative tool.

Another way to look at it is this (assuming 3 scum are present in this game):

9 town, 3 scum - 3 to 1 town to scum ratio.

scum gets lynched, cop is nk'd by remaining scum. That leaves 8 town, 2 scum - 4 to 1 town to scum ratio. In general, it does not seem like a good trade for scum. I can see how the cop would like it though - he sacrifices himself, but gets a scum in the process.

[Earwig]

Well, I deemed it the death of me because we do have two roles that need protection now. With both me and Earwig claiming the two most helpful roles, the mafia will get in a shot at one of us, granted that it will be a 50/50 shot however. I will also agree with not necessarily quicklynching Khel, at least not until he gives us a response.

It is my understanding that even if I'm NK'd, my NK vote would still stand - I vote blah, but the scum also votes me - we both die, but with the Khel lynch we get 2 of the 3 scum.

[Earwig]

Does Khelvaster only have 3 votes??

I think he's in need of a little pressure

Vote: Khelvaster

[Earwig]

OMG I can't believe Khel did that. What a moron. I've had moments similar to that, but to out his scum buddies - sheesh!

Anyway, If I'm to understand, Shanba should be my NK. I'm cool with that, but what about Coppélia? She hasn't posted in 2 weeks (yes, I realize that's the pot calling the kettle black). I thought someone said she had been replaced min another game - what about this one?

Also, are we still going for the D1 page record???

[Earwig]

damn

[Earwig]

feel free to lynch me - I messed up.

[Earwig]

I didn't take enough time to review posts, to make sure I had someone who was scummy.

[Earwig]

BBB - sorry

[Earwig]

I doubt cop sanity issues in a normal game. It's good to know I was right about him.

Vote: D8p

is the play for today.

I don't believe this is a

normal

mini game.

[Earwig]

/IN to mod after April 5.

From the mini normal queue.

Ok - I guess I thoght because roles weren't posted in this thread that it wasn't a normal game.

Also, from what I understand about masons is there's one scenario in which they aren't allowed to claim. They can also be scum mason, if I understand correctly.

[Earwig]

Scum mason is very unlikely in a normal game. A normal game is a game that has a fairly basic set of roles and not too much in the way of flavour. What you're thinking of is an open game.

Also, a situation where they arent allowed to claim? I've never heard of that...

I got it from the wiki.

[Earwig]

one sec.
Masons get guilty results when investigated?


anybody?

The wiki doesn't say anything about a mason returning guilty, but other town roles do say they return guilty (miller).

It seems we have a situation here. d8p is lying, he's a scum mason, or HJ is lying. I'm not even going to lay any FoS's or IGMEOY's or anything loke that until I can research further. I'm at work, so will have a difficult time researching until this evening.

[Earwig]

If the town just lynches me, we'll know that HJ's results are false, my fellow mason can claim safely later and scum's chances of hitting the doc are lower.

But we would not only have lynched a mason, we'd have wasted a precious chance to lynch scum. And as Shanba says, scum might counterclaim the other mason.

I've not had as long to think this through as I'd like, but on the whole I agree with Shanba; if d8p really has a mason partner then they should come forward.

But I don't think we need to lynch immediately. For one thing, I'm seriously worried about what Earwig might do tonight.

I am sorry about last night. That's why I'm not placing ANY votes or anything like that until I have a chance to thoroughly read.

[Earwig]

!Bagh! Go Town!!!

[Earwig]

Hey! Earwig got a Bagh post and I didnt?

That's because you posted a lot more than just a simple bagh town - you had a whole freakin' paragraph.

[Earwig]

Shanba is good. He played the same way in my very first newbie game here. He was scum there too. Great game Shanba, although I wiish the town had won!