NY 173: Knight-Errant 2 - GAME OVER!

[PeregrineV]

Vote: Monkeyman

Species confusion.

Plus, welcome back!

[PeregrineV]

I also agree with burn, it sounds town. But I don’t really think that was indicative of alignment. That kind of stuff seems to be something that he has a long standing dislike of so he does believe what he’s saying which nullifies the point that it looks town motivated- it looks genuine because it is genuine but it’s about something which scum or town can easily look genuine in saying.

Beast why? This would mean you view us both as scum so got a case on each of us?

@60 twisted: Because of the vote on someone then the statement in your next post that the person was town with nothing changing.
If one of you thinks he’s town and the other says scum then the presentation that your slot views him as town is out of place.

@66: Could you explain? Is this due to a meta read on ice?

pedit: Holy cow
VOTE: Monkeyman

I'll forgive the first one, but not this one.

Vote: Hopkirk

[PeregrineV]

Pere want to explain?

In 46 you voted Twisted for 45. What about post 45 sounds scummy or that it came from scum?

Since I don't think you have an answer that could convince me, I didn't even bother asking the question.

Now, this vote is presumably for 69 & 72. Since I found nothing scummy about either of those posts either, then I'm thinking we are probably on opposite teams.

[PeregrineV]

Since I don't think you have an answer that could convince me, I didn't even bother asking the question

Well thats a good way to play mafia . How do you ever expect to get some reads on the game if you wont dig even a little bit? Sounds lazy to me

I'm happy to let you answer the same question. Maybe I'm wrong.

What about post 45 sounds scummy or that it came from scum?

[PeregrineV]

34- “VOTE: Turkish Van”
Turkish says nothing in between.
45- “I would also say that I like Turkish Van for town right now”
Nothing changed in between. Sounds weird and I may as well use my vote to get an answer.
Suddenly shifting from scum-town read on someone is weird with no explanation (even if it’s a hydra that doesn’t mean they don’t need to give any reasoning for anything).

OK, I can see this. And I have my own thoughts, but a Twisted answer would be good.

[PeregrineV]

Vote: MastinSSK

This should be be figured out promptly. Plus what amounts to basically an RVS "case".

[PeregrineV]

Since I don't think you have an answer that could convince me, I didn't even bother asking the question

Well thats a good way to play mafia . How do you ever expect to get some reads on the game if you wont dig even a little bit? Sounds lazy to me

I'm happy to let you answer the same question. Maybe I'm wrong.

What about post 45 sounds scummy or that it came from scum?

Nothing really. I see a guy saying who he is initially reading as town and then rebutalling an argument about hydras. To me it was a neither town nor scum post.

Then you think the Hopkirk vote in 46 was justified based on post 46?

[PeregrineV]

Since I don't think you have an answer that could convince me, I didn't even bother asking the question

Well thats a good way to play mafia . How do you ever expect to get some reads on the game if you wont dig even a little bit? Sounds lazy to me

I'm happy to let you answer the same question. Maybe I'm wrong.

What about post 45 sounds scummy or that it came from scum?

Nothing really. I see a guy saying who he is initially reading as town and then rebutalling an argument about hydras. To me it was a neither town nor scum post.

Then you think the Hopkirk vote in 46 was justified based on post 46?

I think it was a weak vote on Hopkirk's part. Pretty sure that Twisted was just voting someone just for the sake of voting someone like a lot of people do during the RVS. There was know backing behind the vote or reasoing. Its like Twisted pulled a name out of the hat minus the hat. Then she probably read or reread the thread and then got town vibe from TV and changed her stance. It happens and it isnt vote worthy in my opinion. So yes Hopkirk is wrong but its getting discussion going so meh

I thought it was a weak vote, but the Monkey vote was also weak.

Hop has since explained (99). Thoughts on his explanation?

[PeregrineV]

@Twisted

- Am I reading your post as a response to 99 to be "hydra dissonance"? I'm kind of getting that impression, but there is not direct answer to that post.

[PeregrineV]

@PeregrineV - Why are you voting MafiaSSK? Why at that point?

Actually, just that post. Thread confusion.

[PeregrineV]

Fuck....

EBWOP:

@PeregrineV - Why are you voting MafiaSSK? Why at that point?

Actually, just ignore that post. Thread confusion.

[PeregrineV]

Vote: Bob

Why are you scum?

[PeregrineV]

Still here, but work is a bitch.

[PeregrineV]

Sorry, what I meant was, hey baby, what's your genus and species?

Iago

If I'm ever single again, this will be my new pick-up line.

[PeregrineV]

Town (I like how they post):
Kublai Khan
beastcharizard
Twisted Advice

Next down (Suspect as town, more wanted):
GreyICE
burn_209
Antihero
Turkish Van
MonkeyMan576

Still churning (more needed):
notscience
Katarina LeBlanc
Hopkirk
jbomber732

Better Off Dead (like the movie)
Metal Sonic-because I don't recall anything by them
Lords of the Unreal-because I don't recall anything by them, and there are 2 of them
MafiaSSK-because no posts yet no prods
Bicephalous Bob- because why not?
Guzame - because talked about the game but not the gamestate. like twice in 2 posts

[PeregrineV]

@PereV:

You do know your scum list is mainly composed of those who haven't posted much and/or lurking. In fact, I personally don't like it.

Yes. Quite amazing, huh?

Also the fact majority of your posts interact with Hopkirk yet you have him placed at what looks like a null read, why is that?

Bad early votes, but reasonable explanation regarding Twisted, which Twisted explained (kind of, but enough).
So, for now, even with Hopkirk's continued posting, I don't feel confident enough to call him town, but he hasn't scummed up the thread anymore either.

Spoiler: mah siggy

Flattered.

[PeregrineV]

Why are people not voting to lynch Khan?

I really am curious.

PV - your list is the most confusing thing ever

Explain how 363 comes from scum.

Let's talk about my list. Who is in the wrong spot?

[PeregrineV]

I should be in the town section.

Um, why?

[PeregrineV]

Also, beast should not be town, I do not see where you got that read. I see him as null as he hasn't done enough to prove he is town.

144- Scumhunting other players AND giving reads
158- Awareness of the gamestate AND scumhunting other players
260- Updating reads

Good enough for me so far.

And since I've showed you mine, let's see yours.

[PeregrineV]

I should be in the town section.

Um, why?

I am at the height of my intellectual superiority of a strip beside sundown.

Um, what?

[PeregrineV]

Um, what?

I tried to give random words to make up a good sounding sentence

Ahhh.


Why should you be in the town section?

[PeregrineV]

Explain how 363 comes from scum.

he used his fingers, and he typed it. or he used that fancy-pantsy voice-to-text software. not really sure.

i don't see what you think is so town about it, especially his reaction to my push

here's a town response:
"fuck you, antihero. i'm scumreading beast and that's that. i think X and X are scummy and i don't know why you're defending him so much."

scum response:
"well, it's not a strong scumread it was a

slight

scumread. why do you want to talk about it anyway? we should talk about greyice. you're scummy if you don't want to talk about greyice. you know, if you don't change the subject, i'm going to start calling you scum."

Since I don't specifically remember your "push" on Khan, this now means I have to go look for it. Until then, suffice to say that the responses that I very much relate to.

"Words like "obvtown", "obvscum", and "PSA: X is town" get thrown around and retracted with so much abandon that they are meaningless. Mafia is a game of nebulousness and doubt. None of my reads are ever going to be 100% unless the mod is involved."

I agree very much. Not to say it's not done, but rationale has to be given at some point. And I think this was expanded on already...

"Oh, no. No, no, no. I'm sorry, I did not mean to give you impression that I think you're anything but scum right now."

Clarified Grey as a scumread when could sit on fence about him.

"Gosh, the people I listed as "slightly scummy" on Page 10(ish.. whatever it was) have very thin cases on them. How atrociously suspicious of me."

Strength of reads does matter.

"If you don't care enough to summarize a case, then you're not serious about it."

Agree with this most of the time. I get there are sometimes not reasons, but summaries always help understanding.

"Playing scum is incredibly easier. All you have to do it randomly pacify people by calling them town. Don't state reasons for any read, let people infer whatever they want because it's easy to deny things you never stated. Threaten that you can change your mind on a whim to give yourself blanket immunity. And retaliate against anyone that puts suspicion on you first. "

Yeah, this. Which ties back to the first paragraph.

etc.

[PeregrineV]

Saturday post!

[PeregrineV]

oh right I also have something substantial to back up my vote

pv ignored the "engaging pv is scum pv"-comments which were made during his first burst of activity. I'd expect pv, having changed his town meta for the better, to say something like "I've changed guys" when the fact that he's active is brought up against him

especially since he's a pretty conversational player

Meh. I could do a meta breakdown, but it wouldn't help much. All my recent games are here (mafiascum.net), and my activity is more based on IRL time available than anything else.

Since I get accused of things all the time regardless of alignment, play, etc. I usually ignore it.

But, if you want to talk about something specific, I'm here.

[PeregrineV]

I'm looking for a new person to vote for, and here is what I've got.

PeregrineV: I just went back and looked at his list of reads and I realized he never put any scumreads. He just put a "better off dead' section, and in it was bascially afk people and bob. His reasoning for lynching bob was: "why not"

MafiaSSK: Saw that burn was being scumread by a few for his first post 8 pages in, and voted for him without saying anything about it.

Bob: this guy confuses me so much. He is...Snarky.. One second he's scummy the next he's towny the next he's nonchalant the next he's caring and it confuses me so much

Just so I get your Bob stance, are you for/against a Bob lynch, and are you liking/not liking my given Bob stance and/or the reason for my gvien Bob stance?

[PeregrineV]

pv will you come back if we promise not to lynch you solely because you're contributing

It's Anything-Can-Happen-Monday, so promise away.

[PeregrineV]

also the entire post is probably worth an instawagon but my vote won't move until pv comes back

Was wondering why you would plant your vote until I return, so I looked and it's because you're voting me!

Anyways, I'm here. You ready?

[PeregrineV]

Bob: this guy confuses me so much. He is...Snarky.. One second he's scummy the next he's towny the next he's nonchalant the next he's caring and it confuses me so much


Just so I get your Bob stance, are you for/against a Bob lynch, and are you liking/not liking my given Bob stance and/or the reason for my gvien Bob stance?

hmm did you not see the post where I vote for him? Does that answer your question?

It does answer the first one. Not so much the next 2.

[PeregrineV]

also the entire post is probably worth an instawagon but my vote won't move until pv comes back

Was wondering why you would plant your vote until I return, so I looked and it's because you're voting me!

Anyways, I'm here. You ready?

yeah

do you think your town game improved since the meta people played with you

No clue. I think most of the ones claiming to have played recently were actually pretty recent (last 6 months).

I like to think my town game has improved since I started, but in the last 6 months? Maybe marginally.
Recent game I liked my play: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=36588
Recent game I did not: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=28253

Not really sure of the point of the question, but there's your answer.

My turn.

Why are you scum?

[PeregrineV]

also the entire post is probably worth an instawagon but my vote won't move until pv comes back

Was wondering why you would plant your vote until I return, so I looked and it's because you're voting me!

Anyways, I'm here. You ready?

yeah

do you think your town game improved since the meta people played with you

No clue. I think most of the ones claiming to have played recently were actually pretty recent (last 6 months).

I like to think my town game has improved since I started, but in the last 6 months? Maybe marginally.
Recent game I liked my play: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=36588
Recent game I did not: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=28253

Not really sure of the point of the question, but there's your answer.

My turn.

Why are you scum?

you're just trying to get more snarky answers out of me because you know that's the way to get people to vote me

why did you ignore the meta argument if it isn't based on anything

Interesting take. I'll reverse answer for you.

Why did I ignore an argument that isn't based on anything?
Because it's not based on anything.
And I don't even recall any sort of argument, but maybe I missed the arguing part.

And secondly, what I was expecting was why others think you are scum, since you did manage to go to L-1. To me, it seems like you should/would/could analyze your wagon to see where it comes from, and try to find scum on it.
So far, you've avoided doing anything remotely like that.
Why is that?

[PeregrineV]

Maybe one of them is the serial killer. We're kind of guaranteed to have one.

I dunno, I just know a scumclaim when I see one.

This could also be a Peregrine/Lootifier situation tbh

Is that the one where Lootifer voted me out of nowhere? That sure as hell didn't help that game.

[PeregrineV]

Also. If you don't like reading long walls of text, then don't. SKIM to my reads.

here's let's do it. let's strip down your post to the bare bones.

scum: bob (because of active lurking), jbomber (gut, could be bad scum or town), katarina (bandwagon), hopkirk (lots of his posts rub wrong way), turkish (terrible posts, OMGUS)
town: burn_209 (slight town read, too much fencesitting (lol)), greyice (good scum?, arrogant, pretty town), twisted (?????), antihero (you like how i post)
?????: beast (I don't know where I stand on him), khan (?????)

there's a distinct lack of anything resembling substance on the following slots: khan, mafiassk, metalsonic, peregrinev, lords of the unreal, notscience.
and the ones you actually do give "reads" on aren't really anything to write home about either. while it's obvious that you expended a great deal of effort into writing player summaries, there's not much meat to your post, a lot of nebulous scum reads, and a lot of question marks on borderline cases (khan, beast, and peregrine all come to mind).

This is better.

[PeregrineV]

Why did I ignore an argument that isn't based on anything?
Because it's not based on anything.
And I don't even recall any sort of argument, but maybe I missed the arguing part.

that's an unnatural response to slander

the argument was pretty one-sided because you didn't participate

And secondly, what I was expecting was why others think you are scum, since you did manage to go to L-1. To me, it seems like you should/would/could analyze your wagon to see where it comes from, and try to find scum on it.
So far, you've avoided doing anything remotely like that.
Why is that?

I don't like to hunt on my wagon

I do read you and device as scum though

I don't know where to go with this.....

How about,

No, I did not argue.
OK, but I don't think you've scumhunted at all.
I'm on your wagon. And I'm liking it better and better.
OK.
So does like 6 other people.

[PeregrineV]

This is better.

?
what are you talking about?

A summary of Newmonic reads.

[PeregrineV]

@Bob-

Is your case that my feelings weren't hurt when someone called me scummy for a "meta" reason?
Seriously?

Vote: Bob
Extra Vote: Bob
Triple Vote: Bob

[PeregrineV]

@Bob-

Is your case that my feelings weren't hurt when someone called me scummy for a "meta" reason?
Seriously?

Vote: Bob
Extra Vote: Bob
Triple Vote: Bob

no, that you completely ignored it and then, when I asked about it, you said you ignored it because it was wrong, not because it was unimportant

Then link me to the post where I said "it was wrong".

Meanwhile, enjoy this Verizon ringback tone while your party is reached.

Why did I ignore an argument that isn't based on anything?
Because it's not based on anything.

[PeregrineV]

Then link me to the post where I said "it was wrong".

Meanwhile, enjoy this Verizon ringback tone while your party is reached.

Why did I ignore an argument that isn't based on anything?
Because it's not based on anything.

saying an argument isn't based on anything implies that it's wrong, right?

No, a statement that isn't based on anything would actually be not relevant.

[PeregrineV]

Mod QT post 6:

PeregrineV roleblocks Kublai Khan.
Metal Sonic roleblocks Kublai Khan.

Lol- I don't remember why I wanted you blocked, but town did to. You really inspire confusion in us!

[PeregrineV]

Commentary QT post#8

Beast says "I can't believe I got inspected though. I can't wait to hear the logic for it. I don't normally draw actions like that to myself."

You are hard to read. You exhibit a lot of classic scumtells, but softly. If that makes sense. As town, rather than figure you out since you don't help in that aspect, I'd rather either lynch you or cop you. Since most people let you slide to near the end, if you are copped early then you pop up as confirmed town near the end game, making it harder for scum to mislynch you.

At least, that's my thinking on it.

[PeregrineV]

Anyways, my first scumgame with Muffin and we didn't even get to play together.

Thanks for winning in it for us!!

@Knight-group- thanks for modding!

/in for the next one.