Mini 436 - Game over - Mafia wins with no casualties!

[Albert B. Rampage]

Sorry my reply to the 2nd quote was very confusing.

If you think that I am anti-town, which I tell you I am not, feel free to lynch me.

Me, I don't want you to vote for me, of course, because I don't want to die. Besides that, its stupid that I die on Day1, when we can do as Miztef said and lynch me on Day 2 with the most suspicious player.

So, what I want, is to lynch somebody else today like he said.

Mod edit
Votecount:
Albert B. Rampage 1 (Paradoxombie)
Poison Ivy 3 (StallingChamp, Ryan, DeathSauce)
StallingChamp 1 (Poison Ivy)
TopHat 1 (Miztef)

Not voting 6: Albert B. Rampage, DogMom, Tophat, VanDamien, vollkan, Hurrikaty

With 12 alive it takes 7 votes to lynch.

[ryan]

Just to make this clear, which of the following scenarios do ABR and VD each want;
1) VD to be lynched?
2) VD to lynch ABR, killing VD and another player of ABR's choosing?

Just to make sure I'm following (which it's making more sense after re-reading ABR's and VD's posts) Did this question ever get answered?

[Miztef]

I'm glad albert aproves of my plan for him.
I would like to use the plan and therefore I disapprove of lynching albert today.

So, the question remains... who to lynch today? Paradoxombie seems to be a new choice, along with tophat, vandamien, and possibly stallingchamp. I'm really not sure who is the best choice atm. I'm leaning towards paradoxombie myself, after his recent antics.

[vollkan]

OK, so the two people who will die on the off chance Albert is telling the truth are ready to accept their fates; I expect to start seeing some votes.

I don't want to vote until I am sure of what is happening here, since we could potentially lose 3 pro-town if this thing gets stuffed up.

As I understand it, ABR wants VD to hammer him, killing both ABR and VD. Then ABR will NK Paradoxombie. ABR seems convinced that one or both of VD and Para are scum, whereas VD and Para are sure ABR is lying.

Personally, I am inclined to believe ABR's claim. As DeathSauce said, it explains his initial behaviour which we all thought was odd. For that reason, I am hesitant about going through with this, since it could turn out really bad. Having said that though, ABR seems to be certain that VD and/or Para are scum so I suppose there is a good chance that a scum may be killed.

I am prepared to go along with this if other people think it is a sound strategy. At the moment, the risk of it is making me uncertain.

[Paradoxombie]

In that case some of the people who strongly supported his claim could be mafia(i'd guess 2, with the power role in the place of a 3rd)

Hahahaha this is so ridiculous, I'm feeling clownish to have to reply to this half-assed argument that's standing on a toothpick.

Your subtly trying to say that Miztef and DeathSauce are my scum buddies, here. Don't run away from it, there's no one else supporting me LOL

Miztef and DeathSauce were BOTH staunch supporters of the anti-ABR campaign. That very fact, and the fact that I was a -1 PROVES that we are not affiliated. I ALMOST FREAKING GOT LYNCHED. MAFIA CANNOT COMMUNICATE. What are you implying ? That they knew I would make a claim and get away from my lynching ?

RIDICULOUS.


Even VanDamien should see the scummishness of this post.

To be honest I haven't even looked at any posts except the last few when I posted that, and I wasn't thinking much at all really, just throwing an idea out. You're the one that's connecting dots, my friend, and I'm not gonna argue about anyone else in the meantime.

And it's not an argument, it's a statement of a subjective opinion/suggestion THAT WOULD ONLY APPLY IF I WAS DEAD!!!!

You shouldn't have to argue if I really am mafia, because I'll be dead and it'll say it right next to my name.

You are either scum or a purposely terrible player, because I can't possibly believe someone could accidentally be as anti-town as you are.

seriously.

And to all: I hope to God ABR doesn't somehow convince you to take any action other than to lynch him. Remember, he's done nothing to prove our trust, not a thing.

I gotta say, for ABR to somehow get out of being lynched now he'd have to be a pretty great player, but I just don't want to underestimate him and put him in control of the game through some magical manipulation.

Hopefully everyone will use their own logical analysis and vote: ABR

[ryan]

Agreed, losing three of our townies if it does get "stuffed up" (nice term btw, lol!) would be a HORRIBLE way for us to find the scum. For now (as of tonight before I re-read your claims ABR) I'm sticking with my original vote for Snichkin, this idea of ABR being a "new role" just has me going back and forth. I think he's scum and tryin to scare the rest of us into voting off a pro townie OR is he pro townie and could he give us a big edge in eliminating the scum?

I will throw out a

FOS at Albert B. Rampage

for doing enough to mess with the rest of our minds and make us second guess the roles in this game.

[Paradoxombie]

to calrify I posted before I read posts 226-8

it doesn't make much of a difference but Im responding directly and only to ABR

CONTEXT IS IMPORTANT!!! lol

[Paradoxombie]

Just to make this clear, which of the following scenarios do ABR and VD each want;
1) VD to be lynched?
2) VD to lynch ABR, killing VD and another player of ABR's choosing?

Just to make sure I'm following (which it's making more sense after re-reading ABR's and VD's posts) Did this question ever get answered?

as i understand it,

VD and Me want to lynch ABR, asap, and in theory we'll both be killed along with him

ABR on the other hand wants us to let him live until day 2 so he can take out more suspicious people

although I don't understand why he's sure he'd live through the night, I guess because he's pretty certain the mafia won't kill a psychopath.

[Albert B. Rampage]

To be honest I haven't even looked at any posts except the last few when I posted that

, and I wasn't thinking much at all really, just throwing an idea out. You're the one that's connecting dots, my friend, and I'm not gonna argue about anyone else in the meantime.

Dammit. I don't know whether this guy is scum or just plain stupid.

Are you f*cking serious ? This guy is a real joke!

God.

I don't think my credibility is very strong right now either, so I'll let Miztef and DeathSauce, my previous would-be killers, to make the choices they think are right. I'm retired for the evening. Good night.

[Paradoxombie]

Oh sorry, I meant "recently" when i said that, not ever

I can see how that would be confusing

[Albert B. Rampage]

Please get up to date ASAP.

Good night.

[vollkan]

Miztef's plan seems a lot safer in my opinion, since it means we can lynch on day 2 and have a better chance of catching the scum. For now, I think I will support Miztef's plan since it reduces the chance of having multiple pro-town deaths.

In regards to who should be lynched today, I think Miztef's candidates are the most likely. Personally, I favour Para as the candidate because of:

To keep it simple, I don't believe ABR, and I'd rather risk the consequences of killing him than risk letting him get away with an insane strategy like this.

The risk of lynching ABR today is enormous and, as Miztef pointed out, a lynch tomorrow is much safer. Hence, I don't like Para's eagerness to have the ABR lynch carried out today since it is fairly obvious that we can lynch ABR tomorrow with a far greater likelihood of killing a scum as well (maybe 2). Regardless of how much you dislike ABR's strategy, lynching him tomorrow is definitely the safest option (rather than a lynch today). There is no possibility of him "getting away" as Para suggests, since Miztef's plan is for ABR to be lynched tomorrow.

For now,

FOS: Paradoxombie

. Even if you think ABR is lying, it is still better to lynch him tomorrow so that if he turns out to be telling the truth (however unlikely you think that to be) we can have a higher likelihood of catching the scum.

[Paradoxombie]

Please get up to date ASAP.

Good night.

No you don't understand, I meant I wasn't looking back at who I was throwing suspicion at and fabricating a loose FOS around it.

My post stood alone and I don't suspect or plan to throw suspicion at anybody but you right now.



And at Volkan: I disagree.

You right that we should be examining risk/reward and likelihood situations

but I think you are too trusting of ABR even to let him live one day

If you concede that there could be a psychopath, you must concede that there could be many other possible terrible, negative abilities.
Anyone could be anything.
Letting him live means possibly letting him use such an ability

I move that it is far worse to let someone with that potential go one more day, than any possible reward from lynching him day 2.

Additionally I think he is more likely lying than telling the truth

with those factored together I have my reasoning

To you volkan it is safer to let him live, to me it is safer to take him out
both reasonable opinions, I think

[Miztef]

I must completely disagree with your post paradox:

Killing ABR today is a bad idea. Even if he is scum, we will get him tomorrow with a much better idea of who is scum.

If he concedes that there is a pyschopath, the likelyhood of another crazy role

goes down

. This is a normal game, which means abnormal roles should only be placed very sparingly, and therefore, if there is 1 then another one becomes less likely.

At this point, paradox has become my vote for today.

unvote, vote: Paradoxombie

[Paradoxombie]

If he concedes that there is a pyschopath, the likelyhood of another crazy role

goes down

. This is a normal game, which means abnormal roles should only be placed very sparingly, and therefore, if there is 1 then another one becomes less likely.

I meant he is a risk if he isn't a psychopath and he actually has a powerful anti-town ability/influence.

I don't even understand why you're so quick to believe him at all

But if you want to, you need also accept the possiblity that he is actually is some other role with an equally crazy ability and a reason to lie

And I think such a situation is more suited to ABR's behavior

[ryan]

Miztef: I'm wondering if ABR could be a cop, are you feelin that? Or just that he is a townie?

[vollkan]

Para:

I meant he is a risk if he isn't a psychopath and he actually has a powerful anti-town ability/influence.
I don't even understand why you're so quick to believe him at all
But if you want to, you need also accept the possiblity that he is actually is some other role with an equally crazy ability and a reason to lie
And I think such a situation is more suited to ABR's behavior

Para, I don't follow your logic at all. Your argument is that we should lynch ABR today in case "he actually has a powerful anti-town ability/influence." Couldn't the same be said for anybody? We have no idea regarding anybody's role and ability. Just because ABR has claimed psychopath doesn't increase the likelihood he actually has a different role. Furthermore, as DeathSauce said, ABR's play has been enitrely consistent with him being a Psychopath.

I don't necessarily believe ABR's claim, but it certainly has a real possibility of being valid. Hence, as stated, it is safest to lynch ABR tomorrow.

Given Para's continued eagerness to lynch ABR today, along with the fact that he seems to be increasingly grasping at straws in finding reasons to lynch ABR (the whole "powerful ability" thing), I

Vote: Paradoxombie

[Miztef]

Miztef: I'm wondering if ABR could be a cop, are you feelin that? Or just that he is a townie?

It's 'possible' he's a cop, but I really doubt it. On LAL priciple, we'd have to lynch him if he claims cop anyway.

He is almost certainly not a townie.

To me, He is most likely his pyscopath role, next most likely is an anti-town psycopath-like role, and next is scum.

It's somewhat irrelevant if he is scum, as we'll lynch him tommorow anyway. He also could be a jester/suicide bomber type role, but I'm not getting that vibe either.

[DeathSauce]

To me, He is most likely his psychopath role, next most likely is an anti-town psychopath-like role, and next is scum.

I agree with this, that's how I see it too.


Is anyone else in for slowing things down until we get a replacement for darhken and some response from our two lurkiest players?

We are going along at a good clip here, but without 100% participation it is going to be hard to do anything.

[ryan]

I'm starting to think Snichkin is just not participating and to be honest Paradoxombie and ABR are climbing my scum list so for now I will unvote and keep my options on those two open.

unvote

[Paradoxombie]

Furthermore, as DeathSauce said, ABR's play has been enitrely consistent with him being a Psychopath.

That is ridiculous. If you were the a psychopath, with all the same abilities as ABR described, how the hell would you play?

I know what I'd do. I'd play totally normal, and only claim at -1 or -2, and even then, I may not claim so that I could take out some suspicious people.
Wouldn't any intelligent person play this way?
While ABR did claim after he was about to be lynched, he did not play normaly at all. He made totally incomprehensible posts that just confused everyone.

No way in hell he could've actually expected any of us to figure out what he meant! It should have been obvious to him that acting like that would get him lynched. Imo, he is nowhere near stupid enough to have actually thought his hints would be understandable. I feel 100% sure that ABR could've had no intentions other than to get himself into a situation where he'd have to claim.

With this in mind, there are only a few situations where ABRs play is consistent
-a lying Townie who decides to play in a totally radical way for fun or expirimentation
-a scum who decides to play in a totally radical way for fun or expirimentation
-A real psychopath who decides to play in a totally radical way for fun or expirimentation
-Someone who just want to get to day 2, maybe he has some role that he wants to get to use at least on night 1, and feels that playing like this is safer than pretending to be a townie

In any case I refuse to be used or manipulated by him. Since I feel that he is lying and that he set this entire situation up from the begining(forcing himself to claim)and has long held control of the game, he must have some idea what he is doing. In which case I refuse to do anything he suggests.

At worst he's anti-town and at best he's a liar
If you want to you can throw out every argument of mine except this.

Even if you don't want to consider the possiblity that he is scum or antitown:

His play is NOT consistant with his story

LAL

if you can somehow convince me this is not true, I'll happily drop my case against ABR.

Also, I'm not grasping at straws, these are all valid arguments in my opinion. ABRs own actions led me to think these ways, I did not fabricate them with the intention of convincing anyone. I AM telling you them to convince you, but I did not make them to convince you(you= whoever reads this with the exception of ABR).

[Albert B. Rampage]

(you= whoever reads this with the exception of ABR)

I resent that.

Anyway. Look, Parax.

I claimed because I was no longer sure that it was scum that would hammer me. Also, I had no idea who to NK so I wanted more discussion.

I was unanimously suspicious and anyone could have hammered, anyone could have been innocent townie killed by me. To me, my claim makes perfect sense.

Second. I far from have control of the game. If anyone has slight control of the game, it would be Miztef. Miztef has volunteered a plan which you stubbornly refuse for no reason at all.

A real townie would come up with a counter-plan, much like Miztef did. All you do is whine and whine and whine. I DONT WANT TO BE MANIPULATED BOOHOO

Talk is cheap, paradox. You have no evidence. You rely on your emotions. You sound like a 8-year-old afraid of being tricked out of his favorite toy.

Please post a REAL theory that is grounded in fact. I will not put my vote on you until you have the time to analyze everything OBJECTIVELY, and think out a REAL solution.

Your accusation is fantasy. The votes on you is reality. Now come up with something good, I want to see something SO GOOD that I will feel the urge, the NEED, to congratulate you for.

Until then, your "I WILL NOT BE MANIPULATED!" stance will suffer severe criticism, so you better hurry up mate.

[Lawrencelot]

Found a replacement for darhken and Snichkin, who wanted to be out of the game. I will prod StallingChamp. DogMom will replace darhken en Poison Ivy will replace Snichkin. Thank you.

[DeathSauce]

Bah!

Unvote

.

I can't keep my vote on a replacement player.

[ryan]

So Deathsauce, you haven't weighed in awhile, what do you think about this whole Albert B. Rampage, Paradoxombie and Miztef? Any opinions you'd like to share?