NY 174: Oldy Mafia 2 (Game Over)

[VitaminR]

Was that your opinion of my case on you, that it was poor? (I guess I'm asking whether you understand why people, including me to some degree, are suspicious of you).

[VitaminR]

To clarify, that was addressed at Sotty's Post 2299.

[Sotty7]

I think it was fair enough for you ask me those questions.

Doesn't stop this wagon from being extremely poor. Not one voter has directed a question to me.

[OhGodMyLife]

119 this is a cool new tag!

I'm still reading day one. This game is dense. I need the cliff notes. When did DGB become suspicious of Yos? Why are people voting sotty?

[Yosarian2]

I knew where it was. I was confirming that you thought a single point of meta was a sufficient reason to call someone town.

If PJ thinks he has a read on Sotty, and PJ is confirmed town, then, yeah, that's good enough for me to at least not want to lynch Sotty today. Obviously I'd still lynch her if it was that or no-lynch, but I'd rather not.

If PJ says he has a town read on her based on his comparing her play here to a previous game he played with her, then I'm going to take that seriously. He's confirmed town, and I tend to trust his judgement.

NOW

you're scum.

Oh, bullshit. You know me better then that, DGB. If confirmed town PJ, or confirmed town Either, or a handful of other people who I have a ton of confidence in tell me "person X is town", then I'll say "ok" and won't lynch that person. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't, honestly; sheeping a competent mason when you don't know what else to do is just common sense.

[DrippingGoofball]

Your sucking up to PJ is noted.

[Albert B. Rampage]

mathcam raised some excellent points which have convinced me. If there are 4 scum left, Sotty, who are they, from your perspective?

My top two are Spyrex and CES after that I am extremely unsure.

Save the Dragons (2) -- SpyreX, Cogito Ergo Sum

You guys heard Sotty. If it was up to her, you would both hang. So do me and yourselves a favor, and vote for Sotty.

[Albert B. Rampage]

VitaminR, kindly place your vote when you are ready, thank you very much my friend.

[DrippingGoofball]

mathcam raised some excellent points which have convinced me. If there are 4 scum left, Sotty, who are they, from your perspective?

My top two are Spyrex and CES after that I am extremely unsure.

Save the Dragons (2) -- SpyreX, Cogito Ergo Sum

You guys heard Sotty. If it was up to her, you would both hang. So do me and yourselves a favor, and vote for Sotty.

Not to mention that Sotty's

in extremis

scumhunting is some of the laziest I've ever seen... the kind you see from scum that has given up. "My top two are Spyrex and CES after that I am extremely unsure" - that is soooo lazy. It's such a pain looking for scum when you're scum, it's even worse when you're caught scum yourself. Further, Sotty is obviously afraid to give up her buddies in a list like LML have

her

and STD away.

[SpyreX]

I wont have time for a list and persuasion before deadline DGB.

This isn't ideal because its cart before horse, but it is infinitely better than the alternative.

Unvote, Vote: Sotty7

[Yosarian2]

Yosarian, where would you like me to vote?

For now, I'd say CES. If we can't lynch him today, I'm willing to go elsewhere,. But he can't not be scum at this point.

[Yosarian2]

unless someone wants to lynch Yos, which I would also be up for.

Are you sure you're not scum? Because your only case on me was your scummy echoing of chamber's confused question, and the fact that you didn't like that I was attacking you earlier today. When you do naked OMGUS like this, it really just makes me want to lynch you.

Oh, you're going to pretend this is scummy too?.

Honestly, if you were actually town, I don't think you would suspect me at this point. On the other hand, scum VitR would pretty much have to pretend to suspect me now. You're reacting the way I would expect you to react as scum.

Part of the reason I attacked you was to see how you'd react, and you're not reacting like town. Which is a shame, because I really bought DGB's argument about you being town for a minute there.

[Yosarian2]

Your sucking up to PJ is noted.

DGB, you've played with me in literally dozens of games, hundreds if you include games at Ether's scum meet. When have you ever seen scum Yossarian playing the way you're claiming I'm playing? I mean, ever?

[Green Crayons]

VOTE: DGB

Interestingly, a lot of her problems re: Yos apply equally to my play. But it's only bad when Yos does it I guess?

[chamber]

Which problems specifically are those?

[mathcam]

I'm very intrigued by Sotty's last few posts, which have all focused on how there's nothing for her to argue against. There's no "The wagon is wrong because..." or "A better wagon is blah because..." She even goes so far as to call the wagon unfair. Whether or not this is true, this does paint to me a slight picture of scum bemoaning being caught for circumstances out of her control, annoyed that she played the game carefully enough to have nothing to actually be attacked for, and yet got caught away. I'm sure this is partly me trying to retroactively justify the wagon, but it sounds pretty reasonable.

So I like the Sotty wagon still -- as we scramble to find the most approved of wagon, I think I would still be fine with VitR or CES. I personally don't think DGB is likely to be scum, just because of all of the outrageous plays she's made (e.g., most recently approving of the vig killing a townie). But PJ's conviction that she really could be scum and pulling these crazy plays is somewhat compelling. I think I'd be able to sleep at night after a DGB lynch too.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Stay the course

[OhGodMyLife]

I'm doing my best to power through at least all of day one in time to make a semi informed decision by deadline (if these people would stop distracting me with Settlers of Catan) but as far as I am right now I can already say I don't want to lynch sotty today.

[VitaminR]

Honestly, if you were actually town, I don't think you would suspect me at this point. On the other hand, scum VitR would pretty much have to pretend to suspect me now. You're reacting the way I would expect you to react as scum.

Part of the reason I attacked you was to see how you'd react, and you're not reacting like town. Which is a shame, because I really bought DGB's argument about you being town for a minute there.

Well, you're wrong and I'm having trouble understanding your reaction. I don't see why you're so surprised that coming and declaring about my every move that it can't be a town move makes me suspicious of you, in a game where a lot of people look town. You've gone from apparently neutral to picking at almost everything I do, claiming that there's no way there's a pro-town motive. I'm having trouble having seeing that as sincere.

Seriously, are you really surprised? You haven't conceded a single point and been pretty stubborn about it, when I know you're wrong about every one of them! Explain to me how I'm supposed to see that as a town tell.

[VitaminR]

Vote: Sotty

I've agonized about this a little in my head, but I think it's the best option. I still think her play with regard to LML looked bad and her votes have largely been easy ones.

I'm very intrigued by Sotty's last few posts, which have all focused on how there's nothing for her to argue against. There's no "The wagon is wrong because..." or "A better wagon is blah because..." She even goes so far as to call the wagon unfair. Whether or not this is true, this does paint to me a slight picture of scum bemoaning being caught for circumstances out of her control, annoyed that she played the game carefully enough to have nothing to actually be attacked for, and yet got caught away. I'm sure this is partly me trying to retroactively justify the wagon, but it sounds pretty reasonable.

I sort of had the same feeling. I also don't really like how she's using the fact that ABR called my case poor without coming out and calling it that herself. Seems a little disingenuous. If you think it's poor, say so. If you don't, don't use it in your defense.

[Sotty7]

This is terrible. Can I please get a case against me to actually respond to? I feel like I am being ran up as a default option. If I am wrong here please point it out. Using the fact that I am saying this as a point against me is pretty shit when you can still not actually give me a case outside circumstances.

The only reason I used your case VitR is because ABR is now voting me despite calling your attack against me poor. I don't think bringing that up is disingenuous at all.

[Green Crayons]

I'm very intrigued by Sotty's last few posts, which have all focused on how there's nothing for her to argue against. There's no "The wagon is wrong because..." or "A better wagon is blah because..." She even goes so far as to call the wagon unfair. Whether or not this is true, this does paint to me a slight picture of scum bemoaning being caught for circumstances out of her control, annoyed that she played the game carefully enough to have nothing to actually be attacked for, and yet got caught away. I'm sure this is partly me trying to retroactively justify the wagon, but it sounds pretty reasonable.

Apart from the rationale that LML pointed to mathcam, sotty, and STD (a point you said was not compelling), the only other knock against sotty that I recall seeing is that she's not very aggressive.

PJ has asserted that her play this game aligns with her town play that he recently experienced. STD claimed to have double checked and verified.

So what's this case against sotty, exactly?

[Green Crayons]

VOTE: DGB

Interestingly, a lot of her problems re: Yos apply equally to my play. But it's only bad when Yos does it I guess?

Which problems specifically are those?

Here is what caught my eye:

(1)

If PJ says he has a town read on her based on his comparing her play here to a previous game he played with her, then I'm going to take that seriously. He's confirmed town, and I tend to trust his judgement.

NOW

you're scum.

(2)

Yosarian is scum for:

(1) Trusting PJ's "meta" on Sotty based on observation of a single game; remember that PJ also tried to "meta" me based on a single game earlier.
(2) We all know meta is crap, who would actually rely on someone else's "meta" proclamations to begin with... and without checking? Not that double-checking makes "meta" anymore reliable.
(3) PJs reads are bad so it's a great place for scum to hide behind.

But this also caught my eye:

And just in case I die tonight,

If Sotty7 flips scum

29 Yosarian2
18 VitaminR
18 chamber
18 MrBuddyLee
17 Tigris/KublaiKhan
14 Green Crayons
1 MafiaSSK/mathcam
-1 Porochaz
-10 Seol/Bookitty
-12 Save the Dragons
-16 Albert B. Rampage
-20 Cogito Ergo Sum

If Sotty7 flips scum & mathcam is town

35 Yosarian2
32 VitaminR
23 chamber
23 Tigris/KublaiKhan
18 MrBuddyLee
17 Green Crayons
2 Porochaz
-2 Albert B. Rampage
-3 Save the Dragons
-10 Seol/Bookitty
-17 Cogito Ergo Sum

Somehow Yos magically becomes SUPER SCUM if Sotty flips scum, but I'm still middle of the pack?

[Green Crayons]

BTW I'm back from my vacation, and let me just say:


Texas is awesome.


That's all.

[chamber]

Somehow Yos magically becomes SUPER SCUM if Sotty flips scum, but I'm still middle of the pack?

You think she's lying about her updated scumputer results? they are objective, you can go check.