Mini 436 - Game over - Mafia wins with no casualties!


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Post Post #300 (ISO) » Thu May 17, 2007 6:27 am

Post by DogMom »

Short wall? Can I do a short Wall O Words? Y'know, like a half-wall or something. ;)
ON PREVIEW: Apparently I'm incapable of SHORT Wall O Words. Figures.

So far:
I've seen ABR do some really...
bizarre
posts. And a weird claim. However, some assumptions re: his role have been made that are incorrect, and I think they're important. The numbers emphasize this, hence the number-running. To organize it, I'm gonna start out stating the obvious, and listing my assumptions needed to make the argument.
This is basically compiling numbers that have been tossed around already, by the way, in one handy post. It is also nothing but Worst Case: that in a situation where either a townie or scum could be killed, the townie will be selected.

THE OBVIOUS:
We currently have 12 players.

THE ASSUMPTION:
1) We have 3 Mafia, since to have more would overbalance the game in favor of scum.

2) ABR is telling the truth and he's pro-town, will take out the hammah and one person of his choosing that night.

Starting with a Town:Mafia Ratio of 9:3 right now.
Should we lynch ABR today, that would bring us down to 8:3, minus the hammah and the Poster Of His Choosing.
If both of them are town, that already gets us to 6:3, with a single Mafia NK of a townie, means we start Day 2 at 5:3, which puts us in LYLO.

(Granted, if ABR selects well, or the mafia have a sudden Attack Of the Stupids, and therefore one hammers, or both, then we're doing much better, but this is Worst Case.)

OK, let's say we wait till tomorrow to lynch him, then.
We lynch someone --oops, it was a townie because this is Worst Case -- and we start the Night at 8:3.
Mafia NK; we start Day 2 at 7:3.
Lynch ABR, he takes out the hammering townie and chooses poorly for his NK target. 4:3. Still in LYLO, but LYLO is now Day 3.

Or...we
don't lynch him at all
- or at least, not until we can decide for ourselves that he's lying through his keyboard. I've noticed references being made to "ABR's kill tonight" and that he's not a good player to have survive. Why not?
IF
he is who he says he is, a Protown Psychopath, his
only
Power Ability is to take out the hammervote and a ONE SHOT nightkill.
I give you ABR's own words:
The mod, while conserving the name of the role, Psychopath, has made some interesting little changes. No longer does the first person voting, in this situation Deathsauce, dies. Instead, it is the person who hammers. I'm also a
one-shot killing role
capable of killing the night after I die.
For the sake of argument, for the sake of assumption,
if he's telling the truth
, he doesn't have any NK abilities
until after he is lynched
. And that NK
only
happens IF HE IS LYNCHED. Not if he's NKed. Not if he's Vigged. So if he's telling the truth, he's just like every other townie, except he's got a
wicked
Vengeance ability. What's the harm in letting a claimed townie last another day? I'm not saying to blithely trust every town claim that comes down the pike, I'm just saying that lynching him
at all
at this point seems to be kind of self-defeating.

I suspect the Mafia have figured that out. Perhaps they're the ones calling for his head, hoping that town will follow. Perhaps not. All I'm saying is, he's not nearly as powerful as some are portraying him, and either they've misunderstood his role, or they're deliberately trying to get town to off a known-to-them townie.


Mod edit
Votecount:
Albert B. Rampage 2 (Paradoxombie, ryan)
Poison Ivy 2 (StallingChamp, Miztef)
Paradoxombie 1 (vollkan)
StallingChamp 1 (Poison Ivy)
ryan 1 (Albert B. Rampage)

Not voting 5: DogMom, Tophat, VanDamien, Hurrikaty, DeathSauce

With 12 alive it takes 7 votes to lynch.
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Post Post #301 (ISO) » Thu May 17, 2007 8:25 am

Post by Miztef »

@dogmom:

earlier in the game I considered hoping for ABR to be NKed, which is the absolute safest way to be rid of him. However, we cannot be absolutly assured of a vig today, and not tommorow either, unless a cop claims today, reveals the vigs identity and then dies so we know he is a cop. So basically, it's unlikely we will ever "know" if there is a vig, and therefore we cannot go on with the assumption we could get him NKed, at any point. It is much safer to plan to lynch him at this time.
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Post Post #302 (ISO) » Thu May 17, 2007 9:53 am

Post by DeathSauce »

I think a good strategy now is to start voting lurkers. It gets very frustrating to keep seeing posts from the same 6 people. Hurrikaty's posts are the absolute definition of lurking.

Vote: HurriKaty
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Post Post #303 (ISO) » Thu May 17, 2007 10:33 am

Post by VanDamien »

DogMom wrote:THE OBVIOUS:
We currently have 12 players.

THE ASSUMPTION:
1) We have 3 Mafia, since to have more would overbalance the game in favor of scum.

2) ABR is telling the truth and he's pro-town, will take out the hammah and one person of his choosing that night.

Starting with a Town:Mafia Ratio of 9:3 right now.
Should we lynch ABR today, that would bring us down to 8:3, minus the hammah and the Poster Of His Choosing.
If both of them are town, that already gets us to 6:3, with a single Mafia NK of a townie, means we start Day 2 at 5:3, which puts us in LYLO.

(Granted, if ABR selects well, or the mafia have a sudden Attack Of the Stupids, and therefore one hammers, or both, then we're doing much better, but this is Worst Case.)

OK, let's say we wait till tomorrow to lynch him, then.
We lynch someone --oops, it was a townie because this is Worst Case -- and we start the Night at 8:3.
Mafia NK; we start Day 2 at 7:3.
Lynch ABR, he takes out the hammering townie and chooses poorly for his NK target. 4:3. Still in LYLO, but LYLO is now Day 3
I tried presenting this reasoning earlier, but yours is much clearer, except you forgot something at the end. We start day 2 at 7:3. Lynch ABR, he takes out hammering townie and chooses poorly for his NK, we're at 4:3. THEN, the mafia kill also, and we're at 3:3 and have lost. Not LYLO Day 3, because there is no day 3. Here's my quandry: not lynching him ever has it's benefits, true; but if he's confirmed as scum as I believe he will be, then two more suspects move to the forefront pretty strongly.
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Post Post #304 (ISO) » Thu May 17, 2007 12:24 pm

Post by DogMom »

Miztef wrote:@dogmom:

earlier in the game I considered hoping for ABR to be NKed, which is the absolute safest way to be rid of him. However, we cannot be absolutly assured of a vig today, and not tommorow either, unless a cop claims today, reveals the vigs identity and then dies so we know he is a cop. So basically, it's unlikely we will ever "know" if there is a vig, and therefore we cannot go on with the assumption we could get him NKed, at any point. It is much safer to plan to lynch him at this time.
?? How's that? Say we have a cop, and said cop claims today, gets whacked tonight, and..um...how do we find out who the vig is again? We started in the Day phase, which means we started with NO cop investigation, which means the cop would have nothing to reveal. So the cop would have to investigate someone TONIGHT, find out they're the vig, THEN come out TOMORROW as the cop with the vig result and die.

Why is it safer to lynch ABR today than the "not at all if we believe him" plan? I'm assuming you're going with the last half of that and just DO NOT believe him, so you'd rather lynch him on the theory that he is scum.
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Post Post #305 (ISO) » Thu May 17, 2007 12:27 pm

Post by DogMom »

VanDamien wrote:
DogMom wrote:THE OBVIOUS:
We currently have 12 players.

THE ASSUMPTION:
1) We have 3 Mafia, since to have more would overbalance the game in favor of scum.

2) ABR is telling the truth and he's pro-town, will take out the hammah and one person of his choosing that night.

Starting with a Town:Mafia Ratio of 9:3 right now.
Should we lynch ABR today, that would bring us down to 8:3, minus the hammah and the Poster Of His Choosing.
If both of them are town, that already gets us to 6:3, with a single Mafia NK of a townie, means we start Day 2 at 5:3, which puts us in LYLO.

(Granted, if ABR selects well, or the mafia have a sudden Attack Of the Stupids, and therefore one hammers, or both, then we're doing much better, but this is Worst Case.)

OK, let's say we wait till tomorrow to lynch him, then.
We lynch someone --oops, it was a townie because this is Worst Case -- and we start the Night at 8:3.
Mafia NK; we start Day 2 at 7:3.
Lynch ABR, he takes out the hammering townie and chooses poorly for his NK target. 4:3. Still in LYLO, but LYLO is now Day 3
I tried presenting this reasoning earlier, but yours is much clearer, except you forgot something at the end. We start day 2 at 7:3. Lynch ABR, he takes out hammering townie and chooses poorly for his NK, we're at 4:3. THEN, the mafia kill also, and we're at 3:3 and have lost. Not LYLO Day 3, because there is no day 3. Here's my quandry: not lynching him ever has it's benefits, true; but if he's confirmed as scum as I believe he will be, then two more suspects move to the forefront pretty strongly.
Ew, I did forget to include the Mafia NK in that second lynch scenario, didn't I. Whoops. Sorry about that.

If he's confirmed as scum, you're pegging 2 other people as his scumbuddies, I'm assuming. I sure wish I was as certain as you guys - I'm just not seeing the entire case against Albert. YES, he made a spectacularly weird claim, but that's not entirely an
impossible
claim. I'm just not convinced.
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Post Post #306 (ISO) » Thu May 17, 2007 12:48 pm

Post by vollkan »

If he's confirmed as scum, you're pegging 2 other people as his scumbuddies, I'm assuming. I sure wish I was as certain as you guys - I'm just not seeing the entire case against Albert. YES, he made a spectacularly weird claim, but that's not entirely an impossible claim. I'm just not convinced.
I think that is the basis of the Day 2 lynch plan. Nobody is convinced ABR is entirely telling the truth, so they want him lynched tomorrow where we have a better idea of who is scum. Having said that, I think DogMom makes a very valid point about not lynching ABR at all unless we are dead certain he is lying. In any case, it seems to be an unwise choice to lynch ABR today.
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Post Post #307 (ISO) » Thu May 17, 2007 12:51 pm

Post by Miztef »

I am working under the assumption albert is pro-town pyscopath atm. Sorry about the N0 cop claim thing, mixed up with another game.
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Post Post #308 (ISO) » Thu May 17, 2007 5:28 pm

Post by HurriKaty »

DeathSauce wrote:Hurrikaty's posts are the absolute definition of lurking.
I agree, and I really am sorry, I've just forgot about Mafiascum lately, and I'm trying, I really am, it just seems whenever I come back theres 50 more pages to read.

It would really help if someone could sum up the game in like.. one post for me, so far.

:(
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Post Post #309 (ISO) » Thu May 17, 2007 5:31 pm

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Can you just ask for a replacement ?
Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards.
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Post Post #310 (ISO) » Fri May 18, 2007 1:13 am

Post by Miztef »

HurriKaty wrote:
DeathSauce wrote:Hurrikaty's posts are the absolute definition of lurking.
I agree, and I really am sorry, I've just forgot about Mafiascum lately, and I'm trying, I really am, it just seems whenever I come back theres 50 more pages to read.

It would really help if someone could sum up the game in like.. one post for me, so far.

:(
The ultra quick summary is that the game can be mostly boiled down to "Should we believe ABR?" and "What is the best way to be rid of him?". There have been people wanting him lynched today, tommorow, some people want him vigged, some people want to make use of his ability, some people don't believe him at all.

Bascially, we just have to decide what is the best course of action to deal with ABR, and then we'll get to who to lynch.
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Post Post #311 (ISO) » Fri May 18, 2007 2:06 am

Post by DeathSauce »

It would really help if someone could sum up the game in like.. one post for me, so far.
No problem. Game started, you lurked, you're scum!

I guess that means you have to vote yourself.
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Post Post #312 (ISO) » Fri May 18, 2007 2:08 am

Post by ryan »

HurriKaty- I would suggest a re-read. One sentence is a little difficult to summarize the many twists and turns we've taken
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Post Post #313 (ISO) » Fri May 18, 2007 2:44 am

Post by DeathSauce »

In case it wasn't clear, ryan's point is the one I was trying to make. You know better than to count on anyone else's interpretation of what's happened in the game.
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Post Post #314 (ISO) » Fri May 18, 2007 4:17 am

Post by Miztef »

I tried to be the least biased I could with my explaination, but I agree with deathsauce, you shouldn't believe any 1 player's interpretation of the game.

Right now I would like some explaination from the lurkers. Hurrikaty is 'ok' in my books, but I would like some real content soon from her. I'm happy with posion ivy until he/she posts.
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Post Post #315 (ISO) » Fri May 18, 2007 4:18 am

Post by Miztef »

sorry, I meant "I'm happy with posion ivy as my vote until he/she posts.*
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Post Post #316 (ISO) » Fri May 18, 2007 7:37 am

Post by DogMom »

Oy, yeah. The last we heard from that character at all was Snichkin, on the 4th, who was attempting to prove a point about vote patterns. PI supposedly replaced Snich on Wednesday, but hasn't actually posted to the game at all yet.

<pokey pokey at PI>
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Post Post #317 (ISO) » Fri May 18, 2007 3:47 pm

Post by HurriKaty »

DeathSauce wrote:
It would really help if someone could sum up the game in like.. one post for me, so far.
No problem. Game started, you lurked, you're scum!

I guess that means you have to vote yourself.
Ooh, that really helps and makes you look good in my book.

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Post Post #318 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2007 1:35 am

Post by StallingChamp »

Sorry guys, I forgot about this game...

Anyways, I don't like lynching ABR today, and so I am suspicious of ryan and paraxombie for pushing it for no apparent good reason. Para seems to be doing it much, much more, though, so I will
Unvote, Vote Paraxombie
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Post Post #319 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2007 1:49 am

Post by Miztef »

Glad to see you back in the game SC. I too am suspicious of paradox, but the lurkers are my greatest concern right now. That is why I will keep my vote on Ivy until I see some posts.
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Post Post #320 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2007 1:57 am

Post by StallingChamp »

Well, I was prodded, so I assume that they also were, and perhaps they avoided the prod and/or are intentionally lurking.
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Post Post #321 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2007 3:29 am

Post by ryan »

StallingChamp wrote:Sorry guys, I forgot about this game...

Anyways, I don't like lynching ABR today, and so I am suspicious of ryan and paraxombie for pushing it for no apparent good reason. Para seems to be doing it much, much more, though, so I will
Unvote, Vote Paraxombie
No good reason? For a lurker (or somebody who "forgot" about the game) you obviously haven't read any of his comments or accusations.
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Post Post #322 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2007 3:35 am

Post by StallingChamp »

I read the whole thread, and find that his reasons (and yours, to a lesser extent) are far from anything that is even a decent theory.
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Post Post #323 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2007 3:43 am

Post by ryan »

StallingChamp wrote:I read the whole thread, and find that his reasons (and yours, to a lesser extent) are far from anything that is even a decent theory.
So you are telling me that ABR has made no posts that look suspicious? Covering for a scum buddy or taking what he has written and not seeing it?
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Post Post #324 (ISO) » Sat May 19, 2007 4:19 am

Post by StallingChamp »

Heh, way to misrepresent!

I never said that I
believed
ABR, in fact, I didn't even comment on the claim at all! All I said was that I do not think that he is
today's
lynch.
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