Mini 425 Generic Western Mafia- Game over!

[Peter Venkman]

Nice try what?

I'm not allowed to ask questions and gauge responses?

-Peter

[pickemgenius]

PickEmGenius>

How do you feel about the person who you replaced not missing a day of posting since he left this game?

Why do you think he wanted out so bad??

-Peter

1.

How is it relevant?

2. Since you seem to have looked at all of his posts

There is a thread called Spain he made.
and he said

is awesome.
And I am vacationing there

(yay internet cafes!).

Discuss.

My guess is that he wasn't expecting there to be internet cafes when he asked to be replaced.

mmmkay?

Maybe it's the internet cafes


Nice try.

Nice try what?

I'm not allowed to ask questions and gauge responses?

1. How is it relevant? I want to know that, seems you missed that. Hmm.

If you aren't asking relevant questions, i'm gonna be dumb about it.

-Pick

[Peter Venkman]

It was a fishing trip. Some arguments are better than others.

-Peter

[pickemgenius]

It was a fishing trip. Some arguments are better than others.

-Peter

Some arguments are unnecssary/pointless.

[TeamQuiggan]

Sorry, I may be new but I have no idea why Vel-Rahn Koon Keeps insinuating that all First day discussion is WIFOM. Sure there isn't any hard evidence to help anyone, but that doesn't mean that it should all be thrown out. I think of it like you are calibrating a thermometer, if you don't know where zero is, how can you take an accurate temperature. I think after monday(Im going to assume that we are going to go all the way to the deadline) everyone will have a lot more to base their votes on, and everything said will be shead with a different light

Also Vel-Rahn Koon, pretty much admits to not being either scum/regular townie(I think most power roles don't exist due to the Generic in the name, but I am relatively certain that there are other power roles in play), by saying seeing him swing is good for the town

UNVOTE, VOTE Vel-Rahn Koon

[TeamQuiggan]

EDIT BY WAY OF POST!

There shouldn't be a not in that last sentence there.

[pickemgenius]

Sorry, I may be new

but I have no idea why Vel-Rahn Koon Keeps insinuating that all First day discussion is WIFOM.

Sure there isn't any hard evidence to help anyone, but that doesn't mean that it should all be thrown out. I think of it like you are calibrating a thermometer, if you don't know where zero is, how can you take an accurate temperature. I think after monday(Im going to assume that we are going to go all the way to the deadline) everyone will have a lot more to base their votes on, and everything said will be shead with a different light


UNVOTE, VOTE Vel-Rahn Koon

Of course I disagree that Day 1 is nothing but WIFOM, otherwise I wouldn't say something like that. If Day 1 was nothing but WIFOM we wouldn't be able to catch scum because we'd all be going round and round and round and get nothing done.

Umm. Yeah.

[TeamQuiggan]

Sorry, I may be new

but I have no idea why Vel-Rahn Koon Keeps insinuating that all First day discussion is WIFOM.

Sure there isn't any hard evidence to help anyone, but that doesn't mean that it should all be thrown out. I think of it like you are calibrating a thermometer, if you don't know where zero is, how can you take an accurate temperature. I think after monday(Im going to assume that we are going to go all the way to the deadline) everyone will have a lot more to base their votes on, and everything said will be shead with a different light


UNVOTE, VOTE Vel-Rahn Koon

Of course I disagree that Day 1 is nothing but WIFOM, otherwise I wouldn't say something like that. If Day 1 was nothing but WIFOM we wouldn't be able to catch scum because we'd all be going round and round and round and get nothing done.

Umm. Yeah.

Sorry I missed that there laser eyes, I had just seen his previous few arguments about it, and it seemed that it was his biggest feather in his hat.

Also you like to step on people's toes, don't cha?

[pickemgenius]

Sorry I missed that there laser eyes, I had just seen his previous few arguments about it, and it seemed that it was his biggest feather in his hat.

Also you like to step on people's toes, don't cha?

sarcasm++

Yea, I like talking, not as much as some people, but I like it.

[pickemgenius]

EBWOP: The laser eyes sarcasm +++

[Peter Venkman]

I have no idea why Vel-Rahn Koon Keeps insinuating that all First day discussion is WIFOM.[/quote
He is doing so because earlier

I[/i] insisted that all arguments Day One are WIFOM. He is jabbing me and attempting to point out my own contradictions.

Umm. Yeah.

How is that helpful? All you did was quote the entirety of what was DIRECTLY ABOVE YOUR POST with a sarcastic retort. Why do you continue to defend VRK? What do you know about him that the rest of us don't?? What are you doing to help the town?!

I think after monday(Im going to assume that we are going to go all the way to the deadline) everyone will have a lot more to base their votes on, and everything said will be shead with a different light

It certainly will be nice, but until than, we can still get reactions from people. For example, I'm still not happy with Mustafa's posting history. He lurked for a long time, than gave us a "I'll post soon" line. I suspect he is laying low just to keep himself out of the fire.

I'm also looking at the non-voters. What, after 23 pages and a few longs weeks you don't think

anyone

appears scummier than the rest?

-Peter

[pickemgenius]

Umm. Yeah.

How is that helpful? All you did was quote the entirety of what was DIRECTLY ABOVE YOUR POST with a sarcastic retort. Why do you continue to defend VRK? What do you know about him that the rest of us don't?? What are you doing to help the town?!

Umm. Yeah. That actually means nothing at all.
I now it's amazing but I decided to say something instead of just bringing up a quote.

I continue to defend VRK because

I still don't get the case against him

.

Why are you so persistant on lynching VRK?

I

know

his birthday is coming up, not sure if anyone else caught that, so maybe that's all I know about him(he'll be 35)

I

believe

I'm trying to prevent a lynch of a town member.
I don't see a case against him that anyone has given that says "you know what, he's probably scum."


I can underline, bold and italicize things also.


Why do I keep being sarcastic?

The situation allows it.

Why does it matter to you if i'm being sarcastic?

Do you have any other views on

anyone

besides VRK,ME?

Why do you like arguing

really stupid

points?

Why do you always type

-Peter at the end of every post?


What are

you

doing for the town?

[Peter Venkman]

Your posting style has become increasingly mean spirited. This is just a game mate.

Sometimes making a really dumb argument gets a reaction from someone that is telling. In your case, it inspired direct insults.

I'm going to take a break for a few days. I believe I've said as much as I can for now, and your behavior reminds me why playing games on the internet with strangers can be such a sad experience.

-Peter

[pickemgenius]

Your posting style has become increasingly mean spirited. This is just a game mate.

Sometimes making a really dumb argument gets a reaction from someone that is telling. In your case, it inspired direct insults.

I'm going to take a break for a few days. I believe I've said as much as I can for now, and your behavior reminds me why playing games on the internet with strangers can be such a sad experience.

-Peter

you see there was this one guy, who at one time said something like this.

I'm not here to make friends.

me either.


Dumb arguments aren't good for the town, they're what you say dumb.
I respond with equal amounts of dumbness.

A sad experience?


Only oneself chooses how an experience is.

This is a game, I haven't been like this is

any

of my other games.


Some of those questions I actual wanted answers too, that's cool though.

[Sefer]

First and foremost, this is a game. Have fun, be considerate, and don’t get personal.

Some discussion is coming dangerously close to violating my first rule. Remember that we're playing this for fun; please take a deep breath and continue to kill each other off in a civil manner.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Sorry, I may be new but I have no idea why Vel-Rahn Koon Keeps insinuating that all First day discussion is WIFOM. Sure there isn't any hard evidence to help anyone, but that doesn't mean that it should all be thrown out. I think of it like you are calibrating a thermometer, if you don't know where zero is, how can you take an accurate temperature. I think after monday(Im going to assume that we are going to go all the way to the deadline) everyone will have a lot more to base their votes on, and everything said will be shead with a different light

As Peter explained, this isn't my idea, it's his.

Also Vel-Rahn Koon, pretty much admits to not being either scum/regular townie(I think most power roles don't exist due to the Generic in the name, but I am relatively certain that there are other power roles in play), by saying seeing him swing is good for the town

UNVOTE, VOTE Vel-Rahn Koon

I didn't admit to anything. What I said was that me being lynched and revealing my role will help out the town. The most one could pull from this statement is that I am pro-town. No mention whatsoever of power roles, because I don't want the scum to know if I have a power role or not. If I'm going to get lynched, I'm going to get lynched based on my actions and not help out the scum one iota before my role reveal. If I claimed power role, the scum would have a given target for tonight and the town would get doubly screwed.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Nope, you are extrapolating an argument from an Aristotelian question. My point was that for scum to come out strong against a town player Day One is a really terrible strategy for the scum team. The best a scum player could hope for is a one for one trade.

You, however, are imagining WIFOM arguments that could take place during Day Two. Am I a smart scum player, doing something stupid than claiming I would never do it because it is stupid? Well, that question doesn't exist unless your role comes up as town. I don't think that is likely.

Well, it's been 11 years since I've had a philosophy class, so the Aristotle reference is lost on me. What I do know is that I am NOT imagining WIFOM arguments that could happen on Day Two, I'm seeing a WIFOM argument that you are starting RIGHT NOW.

If either pickem or VRK turns out to be town, my eye will turn toward the CTD/Peter contingent

Please outline why a scum player would take a strong, outspoken and aggressive stance towards a player he knows to be town during day one.

-Peter

This IS a WIFOM argument.

So begins the game of "wine in front of me", or WIFOM, for short. In gaming, it's any kind of game or subgame, especially a psychological one, in which a player is given a set of apparently equal choices where one or more is completely wrong. In such games one often may try to use what he knows of his opponent to make a better choice, but this often leads to recursive reasoning, as anything that one player could think of is something another player could think of, in the form of "But that's just what he wants me to think, so I'll do the opposite...but maybe that's what he want's me to think...so I'll not do the opposite...but maybe that's what he want's me to think...etc, etc.". Such games are basically random, and therefore should be carefully considered before they are engaged in.

In Mafia, WIFOM arguments are usually a Scum tactic used to distract the Town. The scum will make an unusual play at night, which would lead to a situation that would 'clear' them. Also, these arguments are often used by Newbies and should be avoided if possible, in favor of clearer arguments.

Your question directly leads to recursive reasoning, because you have to answer 1) They wouldn't or 2) They might do it if they could get some benefit out of it. The majority of people will go with 1) right off the bat, and then you can just as easily say "Well, if that's what most people will think immediately, why wouldn't they try it to be sneaky". "On the other hand... WIFOM, WIFOM, WIFOM, WIFOM, WIFOM, WIFOM, WIFOM.

We're not talking about a hypothetical Day 2 scenario. You're doing it RIGHT NOW.

your being a bit too defensive in a good portion of your responses lately

Aha! So responding directly to questions/comments addressed to you is a scum tell! Put it in the Wiki!!!

No responding directly is fine. You are being DEFENSIVE in your responses. Why? There's no need to get defensive. When responding to attacks, Pro-Town players don't have anything to hide, so they don't typically get defensive.

PickEmGenius>

How do you feel about the person who you replaced not missing a day of posting since he left this game?

Why do you think he wanted out so bad??

-Peter

While PEG's response was dripping with sarcasm to this post, he has a valid point. Why is this relevant to the game? This is a very poor post that could be interpreted as a personal attack because it has ZERO bearing on the game. Guardian already told you why he had to leave:

p.s. I am going on a really long vacation May 15th, so hopefully this game is abnormally short, or I'll eventually need a sub. whatever

Hmmm. Seems to me he wanted out because he was going on a vacation that he told us about 6 weeks ahead of time. Strange that you're trying to build a case against PEG on this flimsy stuff...

[gorckat]

I believe you should make shorter posts. :arrow:

(don't ask about the arrow)

This is something that's been buigging me since it was psoted...

What's the deal with the arrow?

[Thesp]

Town don't use WIFOM arguments! WIFOM is a scum tactic designed to confuse the rest of the players.

This is flat-out wrong. Scum are

more likely

to use WIFOM in certain situations.

Only oneself chooses how an experience is.

This is absurd.

If either pickem or VRK turns out to be town, my eye will turn toward the CTD/Peter contingent

Please outline why a scum player would take a strong, outspoken and aggressive stance towards a player he knows to be town during day one.

-Peter

This IS a WIFOM argument.

I'm really, really uncomfortable with your attack here, while I acknowledge there is a minor WIFOM going on here. I'm curious - what did you think of death's initial thoughts which spurred this point of contention?

[Thesp]

I believe you should make shorter posts. :arrow:

(don't ask about the arrow)

This is something that's been buigging me since it was psoted...

What's the deal with the arrow?

Don't ask.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Town don't use WIFOM arguments! WIFOM is a scum tactic designed to confuse the rest of the players.

This is flat-out wrong. Scum are

more likely

to use WIFOM in certain situations.

I made it black and white, but you're saying that it's grey. That's not flat-out wrong. That's me screwing up, which I seem to be doing a lot of lately. Good Town players don't start WIFOM arguments because they get you nowhere. I'm sorry I painted it in black and white, but it's certainly not flat-out wrong.

If either pickem or VRK turns out to be town, my eye will turn toward the CTD/Peter contingent

Please outline why a scum player would take a strong, outspoken and aggressive stance towards a player he knows to be town during day one.

-Peter

This IS a WIFOM argument.

I'm really, really uncomfortable with your attack here, while I acknowledge there is a minor WIFOM going on here. I'm curious - what did you think of death's initial thoughts which spurred this point of contention?

Well I know my own role, so I know exactly where Death's eyes will be turning. As of now, I'm on top for the lynch for Monday because of the number of votes I have. Let's keep it that way and maybe you guys can actually find scum in this game.

[Thesp]

Well I know my own role, so I know exactly where Death's eyes will be turning. As of now, I'm on top for the lynch for Monday because of the number of votes I have. Let's keep it that way and maybe you guys can actually find scum in this game.

I'm entirely not understanding here. What did you think of DeathSauce's original argument?

[pickemgenius]

unvote

[Sefer]

Fourteenth official vote count:

Vel-Rahn Koon (4): Peter Venkman, Thesp, CrashTextDummie, TeamQuiggan
pickemgenius (2): gorckat, DeathSauce
Thesp(1): Raffles
Peter Venkman(1): Vel-Rahn Koon

Not voting: Paradoxombie, Occult, mustafa15, pickemgenius

12 alive, 7 to lynch.

Deadline in four days

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Well I know my own role, so I know exactly where Death's eyes will be turning. As of now, I'm on top for the lynch for Monday because of the number of votes I have. Let's keep it that way and maybe you guys can actually find scum in this game.

I'm entirely not understanding here. What did you think of DeathSauce's original argument?

Sorry Thesp I misunderstood what you were asking. I had to sort everything by DS's name and then go back further than I had.

Originally, Death seemed to be firmly against CTD and Peter going after me, but by the time of the quote in question, he is starting to attack PEG and myself, and as of his latest postings, he is confident that he has found the right scum group with PEG/me/mustafa. I think the reasoning for the switchover is lacking. Could be scum trying to follow the flow and stay off the radar. I wasn't all that happy with Avi's lurking, but I figured that those actions were due to his being a newer player. Not so sure now.

Is this what you were looking for? I hope I've understood your question correctly this time.