Mini 452 NBA All-Stars Mafia-Game Over!

[Fletcher]

Confirm

[Fletcher]

Hello all!

I'm going to

Vote: Nekka Lucifer

also. A game day can take weeks or months (as pointed out by IH). And yes, night does not come until we lynch or officially do not lynch someone.

Also, lets spell out Nekka Lucifer from now on, if it's not too big a pain, since he does happen to have the same initials as no lynch.

[Fletcher]

Since when is that reason to lynch someone?

[Fletcher]

Unvote: Nekka Lucifer

School now. Talk later.

[Fletcher]

EBWOP: Pirates > Ninjas

Let me help you there: Samurai > Pirates > Ninjas

Vote The Central Scrutinizer

, my reasoning is that of all the people to call out to post more he chose me. There are many people lurking and I was being discussed on the page. So it seems to me that he might have just been doing that because it might be easy to start a bandwagon. He didn't vote because he didn't want to make it look just that. Kind of slim I know, but it's my observation.

Paranoid much?

Posts 132-134 look like distancing.

That seems like a pretty lame thing to use to distance yourself, but it might just be my rustiness. I don't really know what you new-fangled players have some up with in my absense.

Questions: Does anyone know exactly why Nekka-Lucifer was kicked out? Can we get a quote? Is that against the rules?

Need to reread. I'll get back with more complete thoughts on people tomorrow.

[Fletcher]

Questions: Does anyone know exactly why Nekka-Lucifer was kicked out? Can we get a quote? Is that against the rules?

Nekka-Lucifer was modkilled for out of thread communication (sending a PM about the game to A Papaya as mentioned earlier in the thread).

Somehow I missed the discussion just before Nekka getting banned, so I missed the fact that the discussion was pms between two of the players. Sorry about that.

Onto suspicions and such.

The only reason I haven't voted NL yet is that he's always extremely scummy...and that's why I think he just sucks at Mafia. Which is also a good reason to lynch someone.

Vote: N-L

I still find this odd. Can you explain this logic to me Papaya?

At this point I think it would be very helpful for us to think about whether or not Nekka-Luicifer was scum. Honestly I think it is very likely that he was. He was very excited about night even though he had played in other games before and should well know that night did not occur until someone is lynched (is he always that excited?).

Also, yeh thx Fletcher for pointing out to say Nekka-Lucifer instead of N-L, cause I'm getting confused if people are talking to me or what...(w... too far?)

I find this hard to believe. If I had the initials NL I'm pretty sure I would always be thinking people were always talking about me. It's just odd that someone would lie about something like that. Then again he could have been telling the truth and I may be just reading into it too much. I still like to go with the addage that liers are scum, though.

I'm scared now, I got 4 votes on here, what have I done? Look at my join date, no-one's taking it into consideration anymore...

This is also weird, because earlier he made a point of saying this:

I'm relatively new, but stressing the relatively.....

He stresses the fact that he is not too new then uses his newness as a defense.

Also people like Xdaamno, A Papaya, Haut Boy, and xyzzy seemed very eager to jump on the Nekka-Lucifer bandwagon. It seemed to me that they misinterpreted Nekka quite a bit. Obviously all of them can't be scum, but it is worth noting.

Yes, but Yogurt, you said it was random then said you were guessing. Just dosen't seem the kind of thing to naturally say while RVing.

This is another weird one. Why would you attack this? I would ever have given Yogurt's post a second glance.

I also have no idea why people are voting IH.

Vote: Xdaamno

, he seems very vote happy.

[Fletcher]

I didn't say that I think your large explanation is scummy. The fact that pointed it out in the first place is weird.

[Fletcher]

That second sentence is supposed to read: "The fact that

you

pointed it out in the first place is weird."

[Fletcher]

Hmm, OK. It's just there wasn't anything else to go on, and I'm fond of the small psychological tells like people saying 'mafia' instead of 'scum'.

Did someone conduct a study in my absence?

[Fletcher]

I disagree with you Papaya, but I can see where you're coming from.

I also disagree with Xdaamno FOS, like 3 people asked you about the same exact thing. Why are you only FOSing Yogurt?

[Fletcher]

Okay, I'm assuming that we began with 3 mafia, which seems pretty standard.

3/4 chance that N-L is town. Therefore, there's a 3/4 chance that we're at 7 to 3.
1/4 of mafia, in which case it's 8 to 2.
If he's town, we have about a 40% chance of killing a mafioso.
If he's scum, we have a 25% chance.

If he's town and we mislynch today, then we're at LyLo.
If he's scum and we mislynch, then we still have one more chance before LyLo.
If he's town and we lynch scum, then we have one chance before LyLo.
If he's scum and we lynch scum, then we have three chances before we're at LyLo.
If we don't lynch and he's town, then we have one chance before LyLo.
If we don't lynch and he's scum, we have 2 chances before LyLo.

This is all fine and dandy... if we were robots who just randomly voted and no one had any special abilities.

[Fletcher]

I'm not adverse to the idea of no lynch. But I would definitely like things to play out some more.

Happy with my vote.

[Fletcher]

Oh yeah:

Mmkay, I'm using the posts by user so I might miss a few things other players have said, but it shouldn't be too important.

Hello all! Hopefully the mystery can be solved so Everyone can watch the big game!

First post; obvious vibes. Possible newbie scum tell in the second sentence, but nothing decisive.

Im back all, Let me read over the posts, to see how I got 2 votes..

Second post. Ambigious but consistent with scum play.

What? Can you elaborate?

[Fletcher]

Lastly, I am going to

Vote: Fletcher

. I am tenetively sure that Nekka_Lucifer was pro-town. In Fletcher's post 150, I think he's trying to steer us into believing that Nekka-Lucifer was scum.

I was not trying to "steer" anybody. I think I made it obvious that I was stating my opinion about Nekka and was trying to gauge other's at the same time. Thus the statement "I think it would be very helpful for us to think about whether or not Nekka-Luicifer was scum." If you don't agree with my suspicions that's fine, but I feel as if this is purely because you disagree with me.

I noticed that Fletcher has stated that he would "be fine with a no-lynch", and as an experienced player, he should know better. I also noted that he never actually voted No Lynch; I think that he's attempting to get others on the No Lynch bus without getting on it himself.

I always consider no lynch a possiblility, but in this case I think it could very much be helpful. Let's just pretend for a second that you agree with my suspicions on Nekka. Wouldn't

you

think it would be a valid idea to no lynch too? I think he has a good chance at being scum. A no lynch would confirm that. A confirmation is very nice because it lets us observe his actions and consider his connections to other players. If we don't no lynch we go a lynch without that possible knowledge.

I am not sure that Nekka was scum, so I am not just going to vote no lynch. I'm simply saying that it is a viable option if we run out of other ideas. Tell me you at least agree with that.

Finally, he brings up the fact that he has had a long leave of absence from Mafia several times, and I think this may be to provide an excuse for sub-optimal play under the guise of rust.

I've never brought this up in defense of my actions. I've only done so whenever I didin't understand why another did or thought something they did.

@No Lynch:

It's a stupid idea. Because if we don't lynch anyone at all today, we're going to be in the same spot as we were, minus players from nightkills. It's lose-lose.

FOS: Everyone who voted No Lynch

This is not true. On a normal Day 1, yes, but this day is very much different from a normal day because we lost Nekka. If we no lynch we still get the ifo about Nekka.

It's odd because I'm am certainly not an outspoken advocate of no-lynch normally, but I feel you guys are being blind to the pros of a perfectly legitimate play.

Sorry for being so inactive, I just generally don't post much day one, there's only minor missteps by the scum and/or townies, suspicions and random votes. Day two is much more interesting, and you can catch scum alot better, because who they kill in the night and who is lynched day one helps determine who's scum. I try to stay out of Day 1 because to me it's just a chance for a townie to be lynched quickly by a minor misstep. Now if something large happens, such as someone does a major scum tell, then I can see voting there, but until there's some evidence involving who got killed/lynched, I'm not really too active. I check the thread, I just don't see much to say.

Although this is maddening as hell, I don't understand why it warrants a vote. Anyone care to explain?

Right now I am leaning away from Xdaamno and more to TCS. I feel like he hasn't really tried to figure out anything. He is just moving from one suspicious person to the next. None of his attacks are pressing, nor are they very well thought out. Is this his normal play?

For now

Unvote: Xdaamno

[Fletcher]

You got any thoughts on the game mlaker?

[Fletcher]

Therefore, in my estimation, we should ignore the possibilities of his alignment and focus on who is the best lynch

today

. We can vote based on his alignment when we actually know it.

Ohh, good idea. Why didn't I think of that? Seriously...

People are saying that we can vote No Lynch because this wasn't a normal D1.

That's wrong. I'm 90% sure that NL was town, that's why I unvoted him. Therefore, it's even more important to hit scum today.

If we miss scum today, the ration will be, after tonights NK:
7 Town
3 Scum
-----With an SK
5 Town
3 Scum
1 SK
-----Therefore, we need to lynch someone today.

Who? I would like everyone to come forward with whom they think is today's lynch, if No Lynch isn't a possibility. Right now, I'm pretty happy with my vote on McStab, pretty much for saying that D1 doesn't matter. That's really, really, anti-town.

I am in no way advocating a no lynch! Ok? Ok. I simply thought that NL was scummy. I think this is the main difference in our argument, but it's just turned into an argument about no lynch.

I still fail to see how McStab thinking that day 1 is boring and useless is scummy. Can't scum

and

town think that? Someone please explain this in terms other than "this post reeks of scum."

Yes, just because he PMed me. Remember, everyone at first thought he was scummy for his playstyle. When he PMed me, I realized that his playstyle was just stupid, not scummy.

Failing to see how this makes you think he's town...

...*ahem*

Trying to avoid the question, I'd presume.

Unvote, Vote Schis

That was only a little only 24 hours after your question. Did you notice that he was not the only one to not post?

a lot of older members around here act like "tough guys" or "hot shots" but i think that is baloney. just because youve been here a while, doesnt mean yr better then anyone else.

Give us a chance! Please?

mlaker, could you please try to get us some opinion or information that does not directly pertain to you!

[Fletcher]

Apologies to all. I've been busy, but that's not to say that I shouldn't have given fair warning. Admittedly I'm behind and need to reread, so I'll try to have a good post within 24 hours.

[Fletcher]

I suck, but it appears I'm not the only one. First, random (not necessarily noteworthy) things I read while catching up.

Unless a cop protected someone or something

lolz

No, not at all. That would be retarded, besides why WOULDN'T I get notified? I got a PM from Thok Thok, that told me I was now a mason partner.

Would Thok even bother to do this if the mason recruiter had died? That's my main question right now.

Also, how clever is IH? Anyone?

-dunk-

lolz

My scum order from scummiest to least scummy

xyzzy

- For the first time in this game (it seems like) I'm agreeing with the majority. I really feel like you aren't giving as much real analysis and content as you could be. Although you are posting, it is mostly poking and prodding. You seem almost afraid to be pushing a bandwagon too far. You are also joking a lot. Maybe it's just how you are, but it seems forced. Note: xyzzy is the only person who was adverse to the deadline extension. Of course someone else could have felt the same thing and just wasn't there and didn't post anything. It does seem an obvious thing for scum to do though. The obviousness is the only thing slightly holding me back.

YogurtBandit

- Who are you? I must totally be gliding over your posts. I think you have an ice cube for an avatar, but I'm not even sure of that. People seem to have you consistently high on their lists too, so I thought I'd add you. Looking over your posts it seems like there are four or less posts with over three lines in them. Minimal at best. (I'm not one to talk, but if I

had been

posting more I can rest assured that I would be posting more content than that). While looking at your other games it seems to be your play style. Possibly you don't deserve to be this high, but I'm still willing to vote for you.

mlaker

- Always willing to kill him. Always. His play is a little weirder than usual though. I find it particularly odd that today he seems very reluctant to vote Xdaamno. This post here was noteworthy:

I believe Xdaamno's claim, I don't know how good of an argument we have against him today. I'll look over it, but I don't really believe as strongly as I did that he's scum.

Why has your opinion changed form yesterday so drastically? Please explain.

The Central Scrutinizer

- No real problems with your play as of yet. I'm not really sure since you've been playing quietly. I could see you as scum.

inHimshallibe

- Experienced and seeming very comfortable. I don't remember playing with you. We've probably played more in chat than on scum (which hardly counts). Really no idea right now. Does seem to be scumhunting but in that sort of uncaring way which is a little unnerving.

Sonicpulsar

- Seems to be really putting himself out there for the good of the town. I may not agree with you 100% but it does seem to me that you are honestly trying to scumhunt.

Xdaamno

- Your anger and confusion at seeing other people suspect you throughout the game seems genuine to me.

IH

- It would seem very odd to me for a scum to come straight out and claim that they got recruited by HC, especially when scum are doing very well and seem on there way to a win. It would be weird play to risk a counterclaim from the real person who was recruited. This is why I asked earlier "how clever is IH?" since it certainly does not 100% clear IH. I would suggest that if someone else did get notified that they were recruited by HC that they come out. Does anyone disagree? (I assume that would have happened by now, but it could be someone who is completely disregarding the game) The other way IH could be scum is if Thok just didn't pm anyone about being recruited last night. The masons were obviously useless now that the recruiter is dead. Would thok go through the motions like that or just assume it doesn't matter? Even so, I think it would be stupid play for a scum to claim that like IH did.

I will

Vote: xyzzy

I would love feedback about IH.

[Fletcher]

Mass nameclaim?

Sounds good to me.

Fletcher, you're not tricking me and actually being mafia, are you?

Nope, I'm the real deal.

Vote: Xdaamno

All of the deaths line up with the all-stars vs non all-stars theory. I'm definitely up for putting that to the test.

[Fletcher]

At the moment, I'm curious how we already have 2 people voting for Xdaamno when we haven't even discussed IH's death. Seems awfully scummy.

FOS Fletcher and Adam

Did you read our posts?

Now if I was asked to roleclaim,

you're

suggesting I went with a bad name, i.e.

my own

name. Why wouldn't I use a safeclaim instead?

And if there's no safeclaims for scum, this game's quite unbalanced

I think you're wrong. We don't know for sure that it is all-stars vs non-all stars or else you would be lynched already.

Even if we were fairly sure that it is, indeed, all-stars vs. non all-stars there are plenty of reasons to not use a safe claim.
- It was day one and know one had really mentioned that idea whenever you claimed.
- To avoid counterclaiming someone.
- To avoid a rolename cop.

Of course I'm not saying this is necessarily the case, but I am willing to put it to the test.

If

I

were the cop and

I

had one living guilty or two living innocents,

I

would probably reveal such.

Same here.

sonicpulsar>fletcher>yogurt>adam>inhim>me

Why?

I don't understand why TCS did what he did. I mean I

understand

, but why?

[Fletcher]

No he didn't TCS, Adam the Amazing unvoted earlier.

You're contradicting yourself. The

only

significant reason anyone's voting me rests on the fact that it is all-stars versus non-stars. You can say my argument's wrong if it isn't that way, but then your argument would also be wrong. If your offence is correct, my defence

must

be correct. For my defence to be naturally wrong your argument would have to be naturally wrong too.

Your argument is that you are town and that if you were scum you would have gone with a safe name correct? I was explaining why as scum you would not, in fact, go with that safe claim/name.

EBWOP: Also, by saying I'm scum you're saying I bussed xyzzy. I don't see much evidence of a sudden change onto him in my past posts.

I don't know what you mean by that.

Fletcher, no one has really discussed why IH was killed or what it implies BEYOND the all-stars stuff.

I kind of assumed it was obvious, he wasn't scummy. I also don't think if there is a doc that he would be on the top of their list to protect.

[Fletcher]

Unvote

[Fletcher]

It's not like we didn't suspect Fletch and mlaker anyway... this hopping off looks portentious.

What motive do you think I have by hopping off?

[Fletcher]

Oh, and you never explained why you suggested the order of name claiming that you did.

[Fletcher]

I'm keeping my

FOS Fletcher

up. I don't like that he was so quick to throw in a second vote and then just as quick to unvote. For me, I have to be fairly confident of my decision before I'll vote for someone and it then takes fairly compelling evidence to cause me to unvote and/or change my vote.

At this point, I guess I'm waiting for more name claiming. Or at least an explanation for why you (the 4 remaining people) are choosing not to. TCS, myself and Xdaamno all have.

To the first paragraph: I unvoted somply because he is one away. I would like to flesh out some of the things going on. I feel like lynching Xdaamno today is our best bet but I don't think it should happen right this second.

To the second: I'm Rasheed Wallace.

1. Fletcher. As I've stated earlier, the relatively quick second vote on Xdaamno with nothing to go on but the theory of all-stars. Indicative of scumminess in my opinion.

Since when is voting for who you think is scummy scummy? I'm kind of in disbelief that you have a whole game to go off of and this one thing makes me top your scum list, but I digress.

[Fletcher]

You're the only one who hasn't.

[Fletcher]

Vote: Xdaamno

[Fletcher]

Xdaamno isn't dead?

Bullshit. If a random guys claimed vanilla and everyone had a neutral opinion of him, he'd actually be more likely to be vanilla (Since there's usually more vanilla townies than scum. Even if this isn't always the case, he's still more likely to be vanilla). As a result, my vanilla claim shouldn't be used as a defense for me I agree, but using it as a scumtell or a reason to lynch is ridiculous.

I disagree because if peopel are bandwagoning enough to get the person to claim they will most likely not have a neatral opinion. A vanilla claim does not help that persons case, in fact it hurts because people start to think "At most we are losing a vanilla townie, we could do much worse."

My role did not say my team.

[Fletcher]

Xdaamno isn't dead?

Bullshit. If a random guys claimed vanilla and everyone had a neutral opinion of him, he'd actually be more likely to be vanilla (Since there's usually more vanilla townies than scum. Even if this isn't always the case, he's still more likely to be vanilla). As a result, my vanilla claim shouldn't be used as a defense for me I agree, but using it as a scumtell or a reason to lynch is ridiculous.

I disagree because if people are bandwagoning enough to get the person to claim they will most likely not have a neutral opinion. A vanilla claim does not help that persons case, in fact it hurts because people start to think "At most we are losing a vanilla townie, we could do much worse."

My role did not say my team.

[Fletcher]

The second one has the typos fixed...

[Fletcher]

My lynch

does not

make sense. You are proposing that I'm scum, and have no safe claims in a game ran by a respected member of the site with all the townies in the All-Star game. That is just flat-out impossible however you look at it. I'd find the theory that one member of the town side is not in the game more likely than the theory that Thok provided no safe claims in a game like this.

I'm willing to bet that less than 5% of the games that I have ever played in on this site (which is a nice sum) have had safe claims provided for the scum.

In response to Sonicpulsar: I'm just ready to put this theory to the test. Look at the facts. Steve Francis was scum. The only person alive who claimed before the mass claim and has a non-allstar role is Xdaamno. If you don't believe Xdaamno is scum you are saying that Thok put in two non-allstar roles and that there is no correlation between that fact and alignment. I don't see a reason why Steve Francis should be scum and Jason Kidd shouldn't.

I mean seriously, if you don't believe allstar theory, then why aren't you guys voting me? I'm Rasheed Wallace! This is as solid a case as I see. Like I said before, the worst case scenario is that we will lose a townie.

[Fletcher]

Vote: Sonic Pulsar

Not a doc or roleblocker.

[Fletcher]

If we follow this strategy: YB, you roleblock SP again tonight. We no-lynch. If everyone's still alive, we string him up.
There's no real reason to lynch with six that's better than lynching with five

And the reason for the mafia to do a no kill again would be...?

I'm waiting to hear back from the two guys who voted for me but have yet to make any posts with real content in them before I commit to something.

You've got enough content for the both of us.

I think we are thinking about this too much. I could be wrong but it looks like scum on a silver platter to me. I don't like this over-thinking.

[Fletcher]

One more thing: Nobody has said any other reasons for why nobody died, and not killing is always risky business for the mafia. It's a WIFOM that I am not even going to try to wade into, and I don't think it happened; the odds of a cop are too high.

I agree.

Can't imagine the 4th scenario in the last post is true with the very low amount of claimed and dead protown power roles. However there could still be some out there.

[Fletcher]

Yay for winning!

That's all I got. Good game all!