Mini 436 - Game over - Mafia wins with no casualties!

[VanDamien]

I don't think it's unreasonable to assume Albert was vigged, or NK'd by a Serial Killer who plans on claiming vig; either way his actions were completely anti-town, and as a doc no less; and so I'm trying to analyze this game with that in mind.

I just wanted a consensus, hence my post 427. I didn't want to rush it if people had a good reason not to. Miztef raised the issue of the suicidal role. I didn't think it was likely, but I wanted to wait to see if people felt otherwise.

Snitchkin, Tophat and PI really need to start posting.

Except, Miztef raised the suicidal role issue after 427. That was post 432. There was enough convinced that she was a good lynch to put her at -1, and you in 427 claim you feel the arguments are enough. Did you expect unanimity?

Furthermore, in 406 you begin with agreeing to drop your willingness to vote Katy if she posted something of subtance, but then agree with DeathSauce that even substance at this point probably wouldn't help.

I'm also beginning if your numbers in 340 weren't intentionally wrong to add to the confusion, as you recognize 4:2 is LYLO, but miss (twice) that 5:3 is also lylo, and not loss.

vote: vollkan

Mod edit
Votecount:
Vollkan 1 (VanDamien)

Not voting: the rest.

With 9 alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

[TrustGossip]

From what I've seen meta, vollkan frequently overextends, but this is a little dodgy. I'm unsure whether you want to start a counterwagon, but I'm not going to join just yet. You bring up a good point. Perhaps a little too good. Have you ever suspected vollkan before, or is this just a spontaneous development?

[vollkan]

Except, Miztef raised the suicidal role issue after 427. That was post 432. There was enough convinced that she was a good lynch to put her at -1, and you in 427 claim you feel the arguments are enough. Did you expect unanimity?

You haven't understood what I said. In 427, I said that I personally thought HK was scum but that I wanted more discussion and agreement before hammering. Then in 432, Miztef raised the issue of the suicidal role. That was the sort of thing that my post 427 was about; I wanted to know if anybody had any reasons against the lynch. I didn't expect unanimity, I wanted to know whether other people felt a lynch was justifiable at that point.

Furthermore, in 406 you begin with agreeing to drop your willingness to vote Katy if she posted something of subtance, but then agree with DeathSauce that even substance at this point probably wouldn't help.

Yes. I was suspicious of HK for her lurking. Had she posted, I would have dropped my willingness to vote for her, but that wouldn't mean that I would not have some level of suspicion for her given her past lurking.

I'm also beginning if your numbers in 340 weren't intentionally wrong to add to the confusion, as you recognize 4:2 is LYLO, but miss (twice) that 5:3 is also lylo, and not loss.

My numbers were totally dodgy there. It was a stupid mistake on my part, not an effort to confuse. That's all I can really say in regards to the numbers.

[DeathSauce]

Anyone else getting the "Exceeded Bandwidth" error message? That's all I got today, so I am just going to try to post this quickly.

I am very suspicious of Van Damien. I don't like his reaction to ABR's death and he is pretty quick to vote here in a LYLO situation.

More tomorrow if I can post!

[Miztef]

I personally have found vollkan very pro-town, and vandamien's evidence against him is not very true, as vollkan pointed out, he was asking people if there were any possibilities they wished to state, and I responded to it just to put any other possibilities out on the table.

At this time I am not heavily suspicious towards anyone.

[ryan]

I think VD just misread what was typed by Vollkan as the first time I read it I was thinking "what the heck" and than after I re-read it than it made sense. I'm with you Miztef, I'm having a hard time reading anyone here in Day 2

[ryan]

*taps the microphone*


Is this thing on? Anyone, anyone?

[Paradoxombie]

Hmm, well if there is an SK, what is his motivation to kill ABR? I thought that there was some agreement that Scum wouldn't go after ABR since he was muddying the waters(though at the time there was also the possibility he was scum)

But I didn't really think of this:
If whoever took out ABR was indeed scum or SK, that must mean he was a threat to them, right? I don't see what other reason an anti-town would kill him except if they believed his claim and he was planning to go after them.

doesn't prove anything by itself, of course.

[ryan]

vote:DeathSauce

Had the first vote on HurriKaty and I'd like to hear more from him. (Plus getting a discussion going about the game again would be nice as well)

[DeathSauce]

Oops, sorry about the disappearance, but it looks like I wasn't alone. Where did everyone go?

I can understand your suspicion ryan, but the fact is HurriKaty played anti-town and that's why I was after her. Obviously more than a few others agreed. I have not really had the time to do a proper re-read, as I've been trying to get ready for a big backpacking trip next week (see the Vacation thread), but I promise I will do so today.

[ryan]

Oops, sorry about the disappearance, but it looks like I wasn't alone. Where did everyone go?

I can understand your suspicion ryan, but the fact is HurriKaty played anti-town and that's why I was after her. Obviously more than a few others agreed. I have not really had the time to do a proper re-read, as I've been trying to get ready for a big backpacking trip next week (see the Vacation thread), but I promise I will do so today.

No you weren't alone, I'll look forward to your thoughts

[TrustGossip]

I'm here. I'm just not that engaged (I think I speak for a lot of people) because of the loss of two pro-town power roles and 3 town players total being dead. With Albert's gambit yesterday, I know that I'm in mindset when I feel that everyone's testimony is poisoned because of Albert's play and his ability to rally everyone into focusing on him.

As a person on the side of the town, I hope I'm not alone in saying that I feel a bit bleak about Day Two, and thus have not paid much attention to this game out of all my games because of these circumstances.

In fact, this may be a situation where the

rats

stay

on

the boat.

[vollkan]

Discussion here really needs to begin again. Hopefully DeathSauce will have something to add which will make this game a bit more active.

[ryan]

I'm here. I'm just not that engaged (I think I speak for a lot of people) because of the loss of two pro-town power roles and 3 town players total being dead. With Albert's gambit yesterday, I know that I'm in mindset when I feel that everyone's testimony is poisoned because of Albert's play and his ability to rally everyone into focusing on him.

As a person on the side of the town, I hope I'm not alone in saying that

I feel a bit bleak about Day Two

, and thus have not paid much attention to this game out of all my games because of these circumstances.

In fact, this may be a situation where the

rats

stay

on

the boat.

I don't disagree it looks bad for us, but by nobody talking we dont have any ideas on what scum to go after, ya know?

[TrustGossip]

I know, which is why I made my statement. I admit that I'm not contributing as much simply because I feel a bit disabled and don't know where to start picking at Day One.

[ryan]

Well all we have in Day 2 is VD voting Vollkan, I've started by looking at both their posts to see if either looks scummy and their voting tendencies. We have a few lurkers who either need a prod, replacement, or step up and say something. Those are just my ideas at the moment, but something conversational would help us find the scum don't ya think?

[VanDamien]

Some thoughts and observations:

It's LYLO, people(just in case anyone isn't observant enough to notice)

Actually, probably not. We're probably either 6:3 or 5:3:1. With two killing parties, neither is LYLO unless we lose two of us again on the next night.

From what I've seen meta, vollkan frequently overextends, but this is a little dodgy. I'm unsure whether you want to start a counterwagon, but I'm not going to join just yet. You bring up a good point. Perhaps a little too good. Have you ever suspected vollkan before, or is this just a spontaneous development?

Counterwagon? I wasn't aware of any other wagon in process. As an answer to your question, I'm suspicious of everyone, always. Recent rereads have cause me to become more suspicious of vollkan, and if I'm right about him, I have a fair inkling of who his partners are. That I'll keep to myself for now so as to not change their behavior, but if that time comes I think I can put forth fairly significant evidence.

@Vollkan: Perhaps it's playstyle, perhaps we think differently, but perhaps it's a scumtell. I don't understand someone confident in their towniness seeking approval for any action they take. The way I see it, enough people here had found Katy suspicious enough to put her at -1, we were on page 18 on day one, the case was moderate, strengthened greatly by her horrible defense and admitting to lurking. As everyone has to be responsible for their own actions, deliberately creating an "out" by seeking approval for those actions is scummy.

I am very suspicious of Van Damien. I don't like his reaction to ABR's death and he is pretty quick to vote here in a LYLO situation.

Again, most likely not LYLO. But more importantly, you don't like that I'm pissed that our DOC intentionally was acting scummy? He either got himself vigged because he was acting so scummy, or got NKed by scum (mafia or SK), for whatever reason. So, what? are you happy he's gone, and expecting me to do a little dance?

Furthermore, quick to vote? 3 RT days into day two, backed by a really strong feeling, plus my vote was the only vote at the time. With 5 needed, no one's in any danger from one vote. As stated before, I'm confident enough in my towniness to not wait around for someone else to lead me.

[vollkan]

Okay, things are moving slowly again, that's good.

@Vollkan: Perhaps it's playstyle, perhaps we think differently, but perhaps it's a scumtell. I don't understand someone confident in their towniness seeking approval for any action they take. The way I see it, enough people here had found Katy suspicious enough to put her at -1, we were on page 18 on day one, the case was moderate, strengthened greatly by her horrible defense and admitting to lurking. As everyone has to be responsible for their own actions, deliberately creating an "out" by seeking approval for those actions is scummy.

I see where you are coming from and it is a valid argument, but I reiterate what I said earlier.

I strongly suspected HK; there was a good case against her. However, I did not want to lynch at that stage in case I had overlooked a reason not to lynch, which Miztef raised. At that point, Miztef could also have hammered but chose not to because of that possibility, which was another reason why I thought it would be reasonable to wait. I hadn't considered that there might have been a suicidal role, so while I dismissed it as unlikely, it made me stop and reconsider.

As you say, maybe we have a different playstyle. I didn't want to lynch in case there was something I had not considered, which arose in the form of the suicidal possibility. Since that presented an additional risk, I wanted to know how serious people thought that risk was.

Furthermore, quick to vote? 3 RT days into day two, backed by a really strong feeling, plus my vote was the only vote at the time. With 5 needed, no one's in any danger from one vote. As stated before, I'm confident enough in my towniness to not wait around for someone else to lead me.

Agreed. I don't see your vote as anyway risky. It poses no danger of a rushed lynch and, if anything, is good because it promotes discussion.

[ryan]

Miztef or StallingChamp, feel like weighing in?

[VanDamien]

Mod: We'll need a replacement for StallingChamp

[TrustGossip]

Umm... what exactly is the status of StallingChamp...? After the... incident?

[vollkan]

His last post was on Wednesday. Until today, neither Gossip, DeathSauce, VD or myself had posted since Wednesday. Miztef also hasn't posted since Wednesday.

The discussion has picked up a bit now, so they (Miztef and SC) have no excuse for not participating.

[ryan]

Umm... what exactly is the status of StallingChamp...?

After the... incident?

Uh oh, what did he do?

[TrustGossip]

Egh... sniff around.

[ryan]

His last post was on Wednesday. Until today, neither Gossip, DeathSauce, VD or myself had posted since Wednesday. Miztef also hasn't posted since Wednesday.

The discussion has picked up a bit now, so they (Miztef and SC) have no excuse for not participating.

I do kinda miss Miztef's "weighing in" always gives me something to think about when he posts