Mini 455 - Mafia in Theoville - Game Over who won?

[Adel]

Vote:MeMe

because she is scary.

[Adel]

nah, too many smilies for my taste.

[Adel]

unvote: meme

hmmm, now I need a less than random reason. Ah, got it.

Vote:Guardian

[Adel]

Adel, is your reason for voting me that I use smiley faces? Is it my page one vote? Are you just following MeMe? Please do tell.

It had more to do with other players dropping your name into a sentence containing the word "logic."

Logic=Scum. [/joke]

Seriously, I think I picked up on a scumtell, and I'm waiting for a repeat or three before I present it to everyone else.

Dogmom hasn't posted yet. Odd. She is usually good for a few hundred words a day. If I didn't have my vote tied up in something that may (slight but non-zero chance) prove significant, I would put a vote on her to encourage her to leave the lurk.

[Adel]

Dogmom: glad you made it.

There is this thread in the forums, started by Guardian of all people,
Revealing WHY you think someone is scum that changed my views on a couple of things. Now I don't believe in the immediate reveal, even though there is the risk of seeming scummy.

[Adel]

EBWOP:
Revealing WHY you think someone is scum

next time I'll hit preview

[Adel]

Then you said that the chance of this actually happening was slight. Being actively suspicious is great, but you are not giving me or anyone else much to go on.

I think voting without providing a reason is OK, but not providing a reason when one is asked for makes the vote seem quite arbitrary, especially when you say that you had a good reason for the vote.

To state my reasons would spoil it- it is too early. esp since you haven't done anything to convince me that I am wrong, and giving away the tell I'm looking at would result in you knowing to stop the action.

Why place a vote at all? To encourage postiness. Is this vote arbitrary? A little, just all all votes on page two are going to be a little arbitrary, there aren't that many facts at this point in the game.

I promise to reveal my reasons before post #100. Yes, that is an arbitrary number.

[Adel]

Nekka-Lucifer: Are you lurking or what?

Normally I would use red for votes and yellow for random votes, I really can't tell the difference in this game without a few judgment calls, and I wanted to keep the graphic as object as possible.

Anyone notice anything? Mostly I just see a bunch of noise.

[Adel]

Adel, I reiterate that if there is something to show that I am scum, it must be true now, not something you can invent sometime before 100 posts. Your map is very intersting and all (though not up to date), but you saying I have some scum tell when I am not scum and not even letting me respond to it is... not very pro town in my opinion

You convinced me with you first line. I was pretty torn on the tactic myself. I don't know how I missed NanookTheWolf's vote for you on the map. But it really bothers me that he is voting for you for no good given reason, and my non-explained vote gives him cover for it. He is doing exactly the same thing I did, but when

he

does it it seems like a scummy b.s. move to me.

I'll explain at greater length later, if necessary. I was focusing on making a mountain out of a molehill, expecting scum to overstate a case for someone else in an attempt to start a bandwagon. You seemed to be the most guilty of it. Announcing my vote without explaining it was a tactic designed to encourage you to continue overstating a case, and hopefully get defensive about it.

I don't like the non-disclosure tactic. It drew too much attention to itself, and gave Guardian something do be justly irritated with.

unvote: Guardian

I was wrong, the way I went about my vote and explaining my reasons for not stating my reason to vote

was bad for town

. I apologize.

FoS: NanookTheWolf

for doing the same scummy vote for Guardian in the same scummy manner that I did. I am a newbie, what is your excuse? Rusty?

Here is a question for everyone: If Nanook and Guardian were scum buddies and planned to start a scum fight, how would they go about doing it? If the result of their fight was a cop claim by one, then he openly clears his partner Day 2 , how impressive would that be? I looked over the opening post by our mod, and I don't see anything that allows or forbids mafia from PM'ing each other before the thread was unlocked. If they weren't allowed to PM each other I don't see how they could've set this up.

theopor_COD: were roles with PM rights allowed to PM each other before the game started?

[Adel]

The most someone's ever been voted is 2 votes (-5 lynch). Looks like noise. If you throw in the votes after that, its still kind of noisy..

It should've shown 3 votes for Guardian, I missed NanookTheWolf's vote. Sorry about that.

[Adel]

What's with the attack there Adel? First off just let me state that I don't care if you're a newbie or not .. It's not an excuse for ever being scummy as you put it. My vote was more out of confusion then it was tactful, and why do claim being scummy?

...

I made a mistake by exposing the cop, but honestly it's not something that I would do as scum, but instead keep to myself until the night hit. Maybe you should blame Guardian for outing himself, I just happened to catch on to it is all.

If you took offense to my "Rusty?" comment, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to insult you, it was just a rhetorical flourish.

Seeing you do what I was doing made me realize how scummy it was. Realizing that I was engaging in an activity that was anti-town I posted my

mea culpa

.

I wasn't blaming you for outing Guardian, I was considering the possibility that you are scum with Guardian and outing him is part of a brilliant ploy to remove both of you from consideration as scum. If this is the case then he gets to role-claim without us wondering why he role-claimed, and after he investigates he gets to clear a scum partner.

You did nothing to address this accusation. Hey, it may only be a wild conjecture, but the way in which you used "If I were Mafia" as a counter-factual strikes me as being scummy.

Could someone more experienced analyse my hypothesis? I can't wrap my head around what the odds of if being true are.

[Adel]

I never used the exact words "If I were mafia" just so you know. The lines you refer to are more of a reiteration of what Guardian said, but coming from me.

I made a mistake by exposing the cop, but honestly it's not something that I would do as scum, but instead keep to myself until the night hit.

So if you were scum you wouldn't out the cop, you would wait until night to wack him. That is the counter-factual I was referring to. It does meet the common definition of WIFOM.

[Adel]

I was a fool. Guardian may be a cop exposed by Nanook who might be playing badly. Streeflo and I gave Nanook a hard time. YagamiLight affects an impartial perspective.

[Adel]

Judging from the setup, we probably do no have a SK with us, right?

I think he meant that if Guardian (scum pretending to be cop) say he investigated Nanook (Guardian's scum buddy) Night 1 as is innocent, than if he dies (meaning either Nanook or Guardian, I can't tell) then we will know that both are scum & will win the game. . Instead of NK I think he meant "night choice"... I give up, I don't know what he meant.

Nekka-Lucifer: do you have a past restriction? Can you clarify your post, please? Are you a Serial Killer?

[Adel]

I really dunno what to make of it all. I didn't see any of the "Cop breadcrumbs" at all, to be honest.

I didn't either. That is what started my paranoia.

Why are you loving your vote?

I'd guess Meme likes her vote because you aren't adding anything to the conversation. Like, "Hello Pot, I'm Kettle: you're black!" Or maybe she is psychic and you are scum.

...
I am now of the opinion that it would be better to give Guardian the benefit of the doubt for now. My whole scum-buddy thought is pretty improbable.
I was thinking about talking about other possible roles in this thread, and came to the conclusion that talking about what roles that may or may not be present on Day1 would help scum more than town. For better or worse we now have an unverified cop, a relative consensus that there isn't an SK, and my hunch that there may be a Godfather. There better be a Doc and he better not fall victim to a recursive logic bomb and protect a random townie rather than our (possible!) cop! We don't want to give scum any more ideas or point out any further clues to assist them in their NK.

If anyone else spots some bread-crumbs, for pete's sake leave them alone!

[Adel]

I think her vote is based upon your actions not being very pro-town since you haven't added much.

If

that is her reasoning (I am not a mind reader) I am calling her a hypocrite because she hasn't added much either. Hence the joke. The dry joke. The unfunny joke. Oh well.

[Adel]

ChaosOmega has posted twice for a total for three words. "Vote Nekka-Lucifer" in post #19 and "Random" in post 21.

WTF!

Vote:ChaosOmega

for the obvious reason.

[Adel]

Anyway Adel, it's now post 104.

Is my post at #68 enough for you? In it I promised to explain more if asked to...

[Adel]

I hadn't noticed he wasn't posting before!

[Adel]

He has a total of 19 game posts on mafiascum, and none since sat @7:30pm. So it is not as if he is posting in other games and just lurking in this one. Still, I'd like to see him catch up by posting, and leaving my vote where it is should help motivate that.

[Adel]

Adel, you seem just a little overeager to vote ChaosOmega for that, but I'm assuming it was just a pressure vote?

It was a hasty pressure vote- I didn't check his activity until I saw the post from the Mod mentioning that he was going to check it. I thought it was a no-brainer and I knew that Erotomachia had just taken a vote off of him. I wasn't expecting our mod to be that assertive in sending a prod, and felt a pressure vote would be a good thing not knowing he probably hadn't been to the site since about his last post three days ago. When he comes back he will still have two votes on a at least one player (me!) trying to bully him into posting more. I stand by my vote.

and a fistfull of FOSs: (roughly in order of worst to least bad)
Adel for the completely convoluted me + nanook scenario,

Which is worth considering. There is a big contradiction between Nanook being clever enough to pick up on your claim, and the sloppy way he reacted to it. I was searching for a simple explanation for it, and came up with that. It didn't make since for him to out you if he was town, and it didn't make sense for him to out you if only he was mafia. It only made sense for him to "out" you as cop if you are both mafia. And it still does make sense to a degree, but I am not confident enough in my theory due to my inexperience (I've never seen a day 2, keep in mind) to buy it unless a couple experienced players start to agree with it.

AND for still not mentioning my supposed scum tell even when asked to repeatedly,

I thought that horse was dead. I find it interesting that you pick up on this while ignoring the four (or five?) or so other players that have done the same thing.

AND for thinking voting someone who is not checking the site will make them post,

It should make Chaos Omege more likely to post if he is under pressure when he does get back to the site.

AND for saying she thinks that the mafia has a godfather this early for no reason

A hunch based upon the numbers of townies, and while I haven't read alot of games it seems to me that Godfather's are fairly common and totally screw up the utility of cop investigations, which was the context of my statement

AND for assuming that me as a scum cop would not provide a true innocent result.

If I understood that comment I would reply to it. Please rephrase. BTW, I hope you had a good flight, and I will totally understand if you are lagged and need a couple of days to respond to all of this.

...

I respect Guardian's FoS, and I think it would be really great if the other players would try to respond to his points as fully as I have tried to.

[Adel]

I still find it funny how he assumed the game started in Night, although in the rules clearly say Day Start.

He said it was because he was confused- most of his other games started with a night move, and he assumed that this one did as well. Which doesn't disprove my unlikely Guardian+NtW scum pairing, since my theory depends upon them exchanging P.M.'s to set up the fake claim as if it were a Night 0. Our Mod simply stated that he didn't explicitly ban P.M's.
Look at the time stamp on your Role P.M. and calculate the difference between when the mod sent it to you and when the first post was made. That would give the mafia about a day to come up with a clever plan. Would that be enough time? I suppose that Guardian with only about 3 months on this board probably isn't experienced enough to have that plan sitting on the shelf, but NtW registered at this forum in 2004, and has 2,400 game posts. Meme has just under 7000 game posts, & registered in 2002, just as a point of reference.
I think that the fakeclaim role would be the easier one to play, and playing the person clever enough to spot the breadcrumbs but clumsy enough to out the "cop" would be much harder. So I find it believable that an experienced player came up with this tactic sometime ago and just left it in his toolbox for the right time. This is a closed game with strict deadlines which increases the possibility of a mislynch, and full of newbies. Note that only Erotomachia, MeMe and NanookTheWolf are the only players in this game to register before March of this year. Meme would be a great nominator for a scummy for best roleclaim or best mafia player.

How many of you other newbies even knew what breadcrumbing was before this game? I didn't. If none of you did either (or none save one, since the other scum is probably a newbie) how is that Guardian did with his 166 game posts worth of experience?

I'm just saying that the more I look into this little theory of mine the more possible it seems.

To sum up my theory:
1. Nanook devised the plan some time ago, PM'd Guardian to explain what breadcrumbing was and that Nanook would out him.
2. Nanook choose this game because the deadlines, closed format, number of newbies, and Meme as a whitness comprise the perfect environment to try it out.
3. Everyone believing that Guardian is a cop would get him + 1 scum buddy through to the endgame easily once they drive the bandwagon that lynches the third member on day 1 or 2.
4. My theory explains why Nanook would out Guardian as cop. The other offered theory is that Nanook was that clumsy despite 2,400 game posts. Nanook as mafia without Guardian doesn't make much sense (without resorting to WIFOM) and no one seems to believe that.

So far the only person that has agreed with me registered on May 28 of this year, so while I feel a little better since at least one person doesn't think I'm bat-shit crazy just for mentioning the possibility, I would feel better to have more confirmation.


So lets take a poll: Is my theory that a Guardian+NanooktheWolf scum-pairing possible?

a) No! It is clearly impossible.
b) Barely, but it is so unlikely that it probably isn't worth considering
c) Yes, but I'm fairly sure that we'll come up with a better scum tell on someone else before deadline.
d) Yes, + I am so convinced that when deadline comes, these is a good chance my vote will be on Nanook.

If everyone could respond to my poll by just posting a single letter, I would really appreciate it. Even if I am crazy, I did put a lot of time into this.

[Adel]

Guardian, MeMe, Erotomachia, and ChaosOmega: are all of you sure that YB should be at -2 to lynch with 11 days left to deadline?

[Adel]

oh,

7

to lynch. My mistake.

[Adel]

Does anyone else have a vote for my Poll?

I didn't pick up on what you thought my scumtell was until Streeflo mentioned it! Where exactly did you tell us what it was?

I was focusing on making a mountain out of a molehill, expecting scum to overstate a case for someone else in an attempt to start a bandwagon. You seemed to be the most guilty of it. Announcing my vote without explaining it was a tactic designed to encourage you to continue overstating a case, and hopefully get defensive about it.

If I don't get a couple more c or d votes I'll drop the entire thing. I thought it was a big stretch at the beginning, so I tried to disprove it by every means I could think of. Here is a funny fact: google "adel breadcrumb site:mafiascum.net" and it turns out that the word "breadcrumb" was used by pablito in a thread in the forums on the very same page I posted on, before the game started. So I should've known what breadcrumb meant. Also, Guardian posts on the next page of that same thread, so I have proof that he was active in a thread where "breadcrumb" was used. I think I am going to vote "b" on my poll now. I am still interested in what other players think of my idea though.

[Adel]

If I had two votes one would more than likely be on Adel, but YB still seems like a better candidate at present .

Maybe you can have two votes Here is another crazy idea I just thought of: In addition to or regular vote in the regular format we also post

VigKill: Player ZZZZZ

and

un:Vigkill

. Based on the games I've read, 50-75% of these games have a vig, but they usually don't do much good, killing townies or not killing at all.

I think this idea is a win-win. We get more information on voting and the relationships between players for later analysis even if there isn't a vig. If there is a vig, and if he follows the vote, it will be nearly as good as the town having two lynches a day or the mafia only being able to kill every other night. It will totally skew the odds in a pro-town direction.

The vigkill vote could come in a conditional form, like I vote for nanook, if nanook is proved town then I vigkill vote chaos omega, but if he is proved scum I vigkill vote guardian.

I think this idea is gets a warmer reception than my last big idea

[Adel]

I think this idea is gets a warmer reception than my last big idea

WTF?


EBWOP:
I think this idea will get a warmer reception than my last big idea

[Adel]

Wow. You really are gunning for me, aren't you. No wonder townies so often lurk giving cover to the lurking scum: play as aggressive as your's suppresses participation. Less information = less basis for lynch votes = greater % of a mis-lynch. WTG.

[Adel]

It got you to respond immediately didn't it? I don't have experience playing to back this up, but from reading games, scum squirm when targeted, whereas townies explain why their actions are founded and look for who the real scum might be. That last post reeks of the former and has nothing of the latter; you even present an explanation of why it is good to lurk... which it isn't...

I am an active and confident player, you aren't going to intimidate me. I was pointing out that your style could intimidate other players. And it might.
I put a lot of effort into this thread, and the more work I put into it the more words you type painting me as scum for my efforts. As the target of my wild theory it made sense for you to be defensive, but when I make a post regard a scheme that I think would be pro-town and ask for comment, you dismiss it and add my attempt to your already OMGUSy list of my faults. Go ahead and mis-characterize me some more, but evaluate the vigkill scheme on its own merits and please drop the sarcasm so everyone else can have a clearer understanding of your argument.

[Adel]

YB: did you really claim cop in that post? If not, I don't understand your logic.

...

something I missed

you even present an explanation of why it is good to lurk... which it isn't...

I tried to explain why players who are town may choose to lurk- they don't do it because it is bad for town. I even tried to make it clear why it is bad for townie to lurk: it gives cover for lurkers. Making a mountain out of a mole hill + mis-characterizing a comment to warp it into a scum tell. Exactly the reasons why my initial, unexplained, vote was placed on you... as I explained in post #68. Now you are doing it some more.

unvote:Chaos Omega vote:Guardian

for continuing to overstate his case. This may be because of playstyle, but if it is then stop because it is bad for your arguments, increases our odds of a mis-lynch, and makes you look like scum. I am not saying that my earlier NtW+Guardian scum-pairing must be correct, NtW could easily be town while Guardian is scum. I do not know what I think of YB yet.. I need to do a PBPA.

[Adel]

Y'all need to quit posting while I am typing!

[Adel]

Your vigging plan has similar flaws. If we tell the vig who to vig, the mafia can respond appropriately. Maybe by defending the vig candidate if he is a mafia member, maybe because they were planning to kill the same person that the vig is going to kill, maybe by no killing to try and make us think there is no vig, or whatever. They can also try and influence the vig kill just like they would try to influence any vote. In my opinion, trying to definitively give a target for power roles is a bad idea and is scummy. Even though any potential vigilante is not at this point accountable for acting as we would decide him to, if we give him a target to vig kill, the mafia can try and influence our decision and they can take that information into the night.

If all your grandoise plan is trying to do is have people give a runner up candidate as to who they think is scummy, and have that information "officially" there... well I think people should always play that way, and that calling it a vig kill target is bad for the above reasons.

First of all each player is an individual, and makes the own choices. As a group we can tell each power role what to do all we want, and they'll still make their own decision. And your logic for how the mafia would react to the group putting their minds together to assist the (possible) vig in making a good decision strikes me as a scummy response: using crap logic to dismiss a pro:town plan. The mafia, in trying to predict the actions of the autonomous individuals playing our power roles will always run into a recursive logic error (WIFOM) so they will never be able to confidently predict who a P.R. will target. Once again, though the logical fallacy of over-simplification, you are overstating your case. That you didn't mention the possibility of there being a mafia roleblocker, the biggest hole in my plan, suggests that:
1. you are mafia and you know that there is a roleblocker
or
2. you are mafia and since there isn't a roleblocker you didn't think of the possibility.

You are wise enough in the ways of mafia to know of that possibility. I was actually worried that another player would point out that hole in my plan before you had a chance to respond. Either you are trying to obfuscate the information I put out because, as scum, you know that I am on to something, or you really need to check your style of play. Either way, you are making sloppy mistakes.

I am so happy with my vote now.

[Adel]

A mafia roleblocker would definitely hamper us directing the actions of the potential doc and cops, but how would a mafia roleblocker block a potential vig whose theoretical identity is unknown?

Think this through a little more.

[Adel]

Wow. You really are gunning for me, aren't you. No wonder townies so often lurk giving cover to the lurking scum: play as aggressive as your's suppresses participation. Less information = less basis for lynch votes = greater % of a mis-lynch. WTG.

It got you to respond immediately didn't it? I don't have experience playing to back this up, but from reading games, scum squirm when targeted, whereas townies explain why their actions are founded and look for who the real scum might be. That last post reeks of the former and has nothing of the latter; you even present an explanation of why it is good to lurk... which it isn't...

I am not gunning for you, specifically, I am gunning for all people I see as likely scum candidates, especially when they post more scummy things.

something I missed

you even present an explanation of why it is good to lurk... which it isn't...

I tried to explain why players who are town may choose to lurk- they don't do it because it is bad for town. I even tried to make it clear why it is bad for townie to lurk: it gives cover for lurkers. Making a mountain out of a mole hill + mis-characterizing a comment to warp it into a scum tell. Exactly the reasons why my initial, unexplained, vote was placed on you... as I explained in post #68.

Also, the lurker thing was half a sentence of my post, and in this case I think you are the one over-exaggerating a minor point I made.

Am I?

[Adel]

That being said, I have observed two obvious town players at each other's throats for no good reason in another game I am currently in, so I am going to take a step back and relook at the case against you, as the center of it are your two theories...

Oh, it is dirty to post something like that and then continue to state and restate a case against me.

Take your step back or don't.

[Adel]

Guardian: I'll take a step back. I'll concentrate on who else may be scum, keeping my vote on you, but at this point I don't have any other good (hah!) guesses on who may be scum. I need to find other good scum possibilities.

Everyone knows how to sort posts by player name, right? That is where the numbers come from.

YogurtBandit:
0- random vote: Nekka-Lucifer
1- points out that a random vote isn't good content
2- typo correction
3- no real content (NRC)
4- NRC
5- questions chaos-omega's vote on Nekka-Lucifer
6- accepts Streeflo's "random vote = good content" comment as a joke
7- gently proposes that CO's random #2 vote on Nek-Luc was a bandwagon, votes ChaosOmega
8- disagrees with Erotomachia, defends placing a #2 vote on CO
9- quotes own post # 7 to defend self for placing #2 vote on CO
10- agrees w/ guardian that voting w/o stating why is a scumtell, states that bandwagon + scumtell = vote to defentd own vote on CO
11- quotes post from guardian where guardian says that YB agreeing with him for "no reason" is fishy. YB points out that he pats Guard on the back more in other games. States that there just noise in the graphic Adel posted
12- asks for summary after not posting for 12 hours. NRC
13- tries to decipher Nekka-Lucifer's meaning in previous past
14- NRC
15- asks why Meme loves her vote on YB
16- proposes that there could be any combination of more than 1 cop or 1 doctor
17- NRC
18- NRC
19- Asks why I placed vote on CO
20- slightly defends Nanook against Nanosauromo
21- States that Guardian is scum false-claiming cop. places vote on Guardian
22- asks me to respond to articulate attacking post by Guardian.
23- claims cop. says that he thinks there are 2 cops. quotes wiki which states that multiple cops with different sanities is common. Asks doc to protect one of the claimed cops.
24- responds to guardian's analysis of likely night actions. YB states he will not investigate Guardian, and if unless there is two doc's he is likely to be nk'd, because if there is only one doc and the doc protect YB, YB will be lynched tomarrow.
25- asks Erotomachia why he unvoted YB. Responds to Meme stating that he thinks the Guardian is acting like a cop, but doubts that Guardian really is a cop because of the likelihood of there only being one cop.
26- responds to Meme, that keeping vote on Guardian is for pressure, and that he has PM mod regarding sanity.
27- states that he doesn't know if he is sane and never will.

Summery:
Votes NL -> CO -> Guardian... defends self often, defends Nanook once. has only attacked CO and Guardian. Claims cop as role. Not wishy-washy.

[Adel]

ChaosOmega
0- votes Nekka-Lucifer
1- replies that his vote for NL was random
2- 24hrs later says that he is back (NRC)
3- places #4 vote on YB for not making useful posts, and that YB tries to look town by posting often. Doesn't buy Guardian-Nanook scum pair.
4- corrects me by pointing out that his vote makes YB -3 to lynch

Summery:
Votes NL -> YB... doesn't post much, just a couple posts every 48 hours.

[Adel]

Dog_Mom
0- Explains that she is a day late to the party because of RL. States that a vote w/o giving reasons = scumtell. Votes Adel for that reason.
1- 24hrs later tries to decipher Nk's post.
2- Unvotes me, Fos's Nanook and Guardian, but does not give reasons.
3- Doesn't see breadcrumbs, agrees w/ YB that opening mod post indicates 3 mafia.
4- Asks Nanook why he outed Guardian
5- Says shy can sorta see why Nanook outed Guardian, says she wouldn't have. Doesn't explicitly state why she thinks Nanook outed G. Un-Fos's both. Doesn't see either as scum, but thinks both are playing poorly for outing each other as town... does player evals: YB doesn't post content, Meme posts meta-content, YagamiLight could be scum since he is posting enough not to be seen as a lurker but posts w/o content. CO+Nanosauromo need to post more. Adel made a scumtell by not posting reason for vote. NL doesn't make sense. Streetflo- NRC, concludes that YL could be scum who is playing well.
6- Clarifies that in 5 she meant that she doesn't see a Nanook-Guardian scumpair. Either could be scum. Says that YB needs to explain actions.

Summery:
Votes Adel -> unvotes... attacks me once, attacks no one else, but voices gentle suspicion of YL, Guardian, and Nanook. Not much content, nothing original added to thread.

[Adel]

Erotomachia
0- Random votes CO
1- first player to ask me what my less than random reason for voting guardian is
2- simple question challenging YB's CO vote
3- second simple question challenging YB's Co vote.
4- States VB's CO vote is a little strange
5- States that both guardian and nanook can't both be scum, unvotes CO, votes YB. doesn't give reason in post for YB vote.
6- Votes "C" on my poll, and wasn't very familiar with breadcrumbing, will post more later.
7- 30 min later unvotes YB
8- points out that Dog_mom did not mention Erotomachia in player evals. points out that Adel and guardian could be two townies attacking each other while scum lay low.
9- Explains YB unvote as being to to real possibility of two cops w/ different sanities. Doesn't want to lynch a claimed cop.

Summery:
Votes CO -> YB -> unvote. questions directed at YB do not strike me as good questions. YB seems a little fishy since YBs answers were decent and nothing else changed. No insights or analysis offered despite decent number of posts.

[Adel]

Guardian
0- at least two smilies too many, agrees with YB in challenging Streetflo's change in vote, votes Streetflo
1- NRC
2- advice to CO, first letter of first three sentences spell out C-O-P
3- questions my reasons for voting him, defends Streetflo vote to Nanook
4- defends Streetflo vote to Streetflo. states that voting w/o reason is ok, but not giving reasons when asked is not ok.
5- clarification as part of conversation of pg 1 "random" votes
6- says meme isn't giving reasons for vote, nor posting content, is a lurker. points out that adel could be waiting until post 100 to invent scum tells on Guardian. YB is fishy for patting Guardian on back. forgives streetflo for pg 1 "blip" and unvotes him. lists adel, streetflo, yb and meme as possible scum. votes YB for CO push and associating with guardian.
7- responds to nanook outing him as cop. concludes nanook must be town as scum would wait until night.
8- lists new evidence confirming his YB vote (neglect of question from meme) and spamming to appear town. fingers (ha!) adel for posting convoluted theory, not giving reason for vote, supposing that there may be a godfather, and another reason I still don't get. fingers meme for no content, not explaining votes, asking NK about post restriction. fingers Dogmom for no content, and for fingering guardian and nanook after copclaim. finger first guy, Nekka-Lucifer for typing in another language that only looks like english. accuses nanook of bad play. pressures YB to respond to meme's question asking for proof that posting w/o listing reasons is a scumtell.
9- states that he hasn't seen a game where scum breadcrumbed, but is a possibility. nanosauromo is not a lyncher.
10- lists evidence that may make someone else think that nanosauromo is a lyncher.
11- NRC
12- adel's theory sucks. posting sucky thoery = scumtel votes A for poll, read sbout breadcrumbing in another game.
13- allows that meme's technique is valid. admits that he shouldn't post so much when he is a power role. admits that he was wrong to call out meme for asking if NK had a post restriction. admits that plenty of nanook looks scummy, but thinks nanook is town due to outing.
14- says he didn't know adel had posted reasons for guardian vote when he made his #8 post. calls adel's vote on CO an easy vote on a lurker. admits that godfather is a possible role, but adel mentioning the possibility could be because she is scum and wants to appear like she is helping out. points out that the only way adel will be satisfied of his claim is if he investigates a scum night 1 and town lynch proves investigation. states that if he had a second vote it would be on adel.
15- dismisses adel's vig-vote tactic. says posting crappy tactic = scumtell.
16- states that since other games he is in have good activity he can't be a participation suppressor... isn't gunning for adel.
17- YB might be scum for making cop claim. sanity is unknown. YB vote stays. pressures dogmom to answer nanook's question.
18- adel's theories are scummy. YB's claim makes adel's theories more scummy. presents evidence to support why my theories are scummy scumtells that doesn't make any sense to me so read it for yourself. says presenting second choice for lynching is good for town, but calling it vig kill target is bad for town.
19- says adel - theories = townie behavior. points out that townies can get each other lynched. adel's theories make her scummy. states that using the posting of crap evidence as a scumtell is not making a moutian out of a mole hill. accuses adel of quoting a line of his without the proper context.
20- NRC

to be continued... this is really exhausting to try to do objectively.

[Adel]

I come back to Guardian later.

MeMe
0- random{?} vote guardian
1- NRC
2- asks YB to give evidence for why voting without saying anything is a scum tell
3-schools guardian on mafia theory. town doesn't need to worry about appearing town-like. unvotes guardian, votes YB "...as I find a blind echo of an unsupported idea more disturbing than the initial statement."
4- NRC
5- says there is no Sk in setup, loves having vote on YB. Uses less words to say it than I just did.
6- asks Nekka if he has a posting restriction. give YB funny non-reasons for voting YB. asks YB again to give evidence for why voting without saying anything is a scum tell
7- more theory for guardian. more schooling, and more schooling. at least guardian is good enough to warrant a slap from MeMe.
8- Asks guardian if he has pm'd mod re: sanity, and why his vote is still on YB after YB cop-claimed.
9- an hour later, unvotes YB
10- votes Nekka-Lucifer, no reason stated
11- NRC



Summ

e

ry (thanks)
Votes Guardian -> YB -> Nekka... attacks no one, defends no one, an engima with great signal:noise. Her meta is the face of the Goddess. All hail Eris!

[Adel]

Nekka-Lucifer

0- hasn't been posting due to new PS3
1- "If he was mafia, he wouldn't agree (Guardian) because if he dies, he loses... Is that an honest sacrifice he wishes to make... Also, if something comes up on his NK (If there is one) then I have a suspicion... "
2- Guardian+Nannok scum pair is unlikely because it would be a crap tactic. Lynch Nanook and the scum-pair would fail. I think.

Summery
Votes: none. nothing added. no content other than some NK permutations which are difficult to decipher. Has 86 total game posts on mafiascum, and makes 5.6 on average a day, and has been very active in his other threads since this game opened. His posts in other games are easy to read and understand. He may really have a posting restriction, or...

[Adel]

Nanosauromo

0- random vote on Nanook
1- reaffirms vote because Nanook 's vote followed Guardian's crap logic
2- defends Streetflo, without giving reasons, against Nanook and Guardian
3- calls Nanook scum
4- doesn't buy nanook's theory that guardian is a cop breadcrumbing. thinks it may be a ploy
5- votes "D" in my poll, reaffirms vote on nanook

Summary

[Adel]

Streeflo

0- Votes YB for lurking
1- unvotes YB for posting good content (he posted a random vote) votes Eroto for "no reason"
2-defends self to guardian by calling previous posts jokes
3- asks guardian to give examples of the legitimate reasons to be suspicious of streeflo's unvote
4- defends self to guardian by calling both page 1 posts random, and accuses guardian of overthinking, questions YB's motivation for unvoting his random on CO since -5 to lynch isn't dangerous. Unvotes Eroto, w/o giving reasons.
5- calls nanook scum for outing guardian, and acting like he didn't know that it was a day start. votes: nanook
6- doesn't buy nanook being an idiot as a valid reason for nanook's play. doesn't like adel's theory, agree's with adel that nanook's argument is WIFOM
7- accepts nanook claim that adel's quotation was accurate.
8- can't read Neeka-writing. wants to hear adel's reasons for initially voting guardian. neutral on guardian's cop claim, doesn't like group trying to guess the set-up
9- states that he missed #68 where adel gave reason for initially voting guardian. notes that CO hasn't posted anything on mafiascum for 48 hours. thinks adel may be overeager to vote CO
10- states that breadcrumbing is common, but scum can do it too, admits nanook could be town since Mafia would not have outed the COP, unvotes nanook, still bothered by nanook thinking the game was a night start.
11- accepts adel's stated reason for voting CO, tells guardian that there is a good chance of having a godfather in mini's, defending adel.
12- knew what breadcrumbing was, votes "B" on poll, considers nanook probable town but careless, and guardian unknown.
13- states that he didn't understand the case against YB prior to YB cop claim, thinks adel's new theory is crap.
14- asks guardian why he voted for YB if he thought YB was going to make a cop claim
15- defends "willing to die for town" by YB to guardian as not necessarily a scumtell. thinks that Yb reactions are more genuine than guardian's, but guardian did breadcrumb (in his favor) and is more experienced.
16- NRC

Summery

[Adel]

Summery for Nanosauromo

[Adel]

^some kind of weird cut & past error

Summery for Nanosauromo
vote on Nanook... defends Streetflo, attacks Guardian and Nanook. doesn't give many reasons for actions or opinions, low content.

Summary for Streeflo
Votes YB -> Eroto -> nanook -> unvote... defends self against guardian often in the beginning, questions YB, attacks nanook, defends adel against guardian. didn't understand the case against YB. great signal:noise, lots of original opinions.

[Adel]

YagamiLight
0-random on guardian
1-unvote
2- asks nanook to give reasons why he thought streeflo is scum
3-NRC
4-agrees with previously offered idea that Mafia would not out cop. suggests testing cop would require lynching townie cleared by cop (

guardian

did you think I wrote this post? that would explain a couple of things)
5- concludes 3 by saying guardian could or could not be scum
6- an hour later states to adel that guardian probably is a cop, and is considering nanook as scum, offers WIFOM for why nanook would out cop. thinks setup is similar to C9
7- doesn't see doc breadcrumbs
8- thinks adel's CO vote was hasty.
9- knew what breadcrumbing was from game 1. votes "b" in poll

Summery
votes guardian -> unvote... he posts often at regular intervals. when I was reading through Dogmom's posts I thought her reasons for suspecting YagamiLight were crap. now I don't. very little content, places very little on record, says nothing that draws attention. attacks no one, defends no one. like a CIA field agent, you just don't notice him because he is so normal. does a total lack of scumtells = scum?

[Adel]

Though I would like to know your answer to this...

Adel, your last two posts have been town like. I was going to mention that the first one was good when I responded to it, but I forgot to. The only bad thing about it is that you called my reasons OMGUSy, when I really have put some thought into them; earlier you said you respected my FOS, now you are calling it OMGUSy? What happened that made my reasons get bad?

Also, you thing about not noticing me, I get that in RL too people say they never notice me come or go unless I make sure they do.

That not being noticed thing could be developed into an awesome advantage. My aunt is a PI, and she is like that, and has a stupidly nice home in San Francisco over-looking downtown and the bay bridge.

... anyways, the FoS was well written had valid points that I needed to respond to. So I did. His response to my response was #145 where he:
1. maintains that he doesn't like my scum theory
2. concedes that he didn't notice that I had explained why I voted for him
3. says that my vote on CO is bogus even though

It was a hasty pressure vote- I didn't check his activity until I saw the post from the Mod mentioning that he was going to check it. I thought it was a no-brainer and I knew that Erotomachia had just taken a vote off of him. I wasn't expecting our mod to be that assertive in sending a prod, and felt a pressure vote would be a good thing not knowing he probably hadn't been to the site since about his last post three days ago. When he comes back he will still have two votes on a at least one player (me!) trying to bully him into posting more. I stand by my vote.

4. concedes that there may be a godfather, but gives a WIFOM argument for why I would've mentioned the possibility.
5. attributes to me an argument that I didn't make (now I think he had me confused with YagamiLight and post #83)

My reaction at the time was that: #1 Amounts to OMGUS: I posted a theory he doesn't like so that makes me scum. #2 was settled, #3 I didn't even consider valid enough to respond to, which may have been a mistake, #4 was moot, and #5 didn't seem to be an issue- since I didn't understand what his point was I doubted that anyone else would either.

I felt his FoS was settled. He could try to press any of those 5 points, but wouldn't get anywhere with them.

My next post was me backing away from pressing the G+Ntw scumpair, and then I wrote my vigkill post, and he responded with #151 and "Adel, voting for you is starting to look win-win." based upon the 5 points of the FoS and the vigkill theory, and his #154 "you even present an explanation of why it is good to lurk" to which

It got you to respond immediately didn't it? I don't have experience playing to back this up, but from reading games, scum squirm when targeted, whereas townies explain why their actions are founded and look for who the real scum might be. That last post reeks of the former and has nothing of the latter; you even present an explanation of why it is good to lurk... which it isn't...

I am an active and confident player, you aren't going to intimidate me. I was pointing out that your style could intimidate other players. And it might.
I put a lot of effort into this thread, and the more work I put into it the more words you type painting me as scum for my efforts. As the target of my wild theory it made sense for you to be defensive, but when I make a post regard a scheme that I think would be pro-town and ask for comment, you dismiss it and add my attempt to your already OMGUSy list of my faults. Go ahead and mis-characterize me some more, but evaluate the vigkill scheme on its own merits and please drop the sarcasm so everyone else can have a clearer understanding of your argument.

So I thought that all that was left of his FoS list by that point was the OMGUS #1, his other points were so destroyed in my head I thought they were to everyone else including him. The "respectable FoS" became the "OMGUSy list". I really didn't like the tone he was taking with me, and I didn't do as good a job of translating by opinion into objective words. If I could do an edit I would write "discredited" in place of "OMGUSy".

[Adel]

Meme: what do you do when some random dude asks you to marry him in the middle of a game? Ignore him? Claim you are married? Oh yeah...

Sorry Guardian, I play for the wrong team, thanks for the offer though.

[Adel]

I don't know if I like this vote for Yagami Light business. He finally posts some real content for the first time, and he draws two votes for his troubles, but you will get answers. By my count we still have four players who've basically not posted any content. Does anyone not think at least one of those four must be mafia?

[Adel]

A mafia roleblocker would definitely hamper us directing the actions of the potential doc and cops, but how would a mafia roleblocker block a potential vig whose theoretical identity is unknown?

Think this through a little more.

OK, I didn't ask the original question, but I've thought it through and I still don't get it. I'd like Adel to answer: How is a mafia roleblocker going to block a vig if he doesn't know who to target?

With luck Dog_Mom.

[Adel]

Superduper theory #1

Guardian and Nanook are a scum pair who planned out the cop claim and outing in advence

status: discredited

Superduper theory #2

Having a dialog about who a vig should kill presents good information for later analysis, and if there is a vig it would assist the vig in making a choice

status: discredited

Superduper theory #3

The most active players are Adel, Guardian, YB, Nanook, Dogmom and Streeflo. Between 1 and 3 of the scum must be among the remaining players. As a group the active players should pressure the inactive (low content) players into posting a whole lot more. Buying into the "lynch the lurker" meta is the only effective way of exerting enough pressure. Picking apart their posts can wait, asking some questions is fine, but the short term goal is to get as many informational words as possible out of our lurkers and near lurkers.

status: pending review

[Adel]

Note the "between 1 and 3" part. Do you really believe that all 3 of the scum could be on my list of active players?

Nice try.

How about posting some real content, scum.

[Adel]

DogMom why must exactly one of us be scum? - you

strongly implied

correctly guessed

that one of us must be scum in your post. How

does that even make sense!?

did you know!?!

Sucks, doesn't it. I do not think that technique will help us find scum. Even if you are correct, the technique is so crappy that I will never buy it. Not scummy, crappy. As in "sharing the primary attributes of fecal matter."

[Adel]

"As a group the active players should pressure the inactive (low content) players into posting a whole lot more." The word count in not the sole indicator for content, but it helps. In my opinion YagamiLight (just as an example) only has one content-filled post so far in the game, which happens to be fairly long but didn't have to be. Content can be concise.

The players in my "active group" in my opinion, have posted the most content. They (we) are also the only players to be seriously considered in thread as scum. The result being that engaging in the pro-town activity of posting content gets you on a scum-list and probably a vote or two. Active players only scum-hunting among active players is bad for town. My suggestion is to turn that dynamic on its head and start with a scum list comprised of the most inactive players. By being attacked (or pressured or bullied or whatever) they will be forced to defend themselves or find themselves in a post-or-hang situation.

[Adel]

And aren't you voting Guardian? How does that make sense in light of your newest proposal?

Oh, yeah. I was holding a grudge, and expecting to be 0-for-3 with this crowd.

unvote

Fos: ChaosOmega, Nekka-Lucifer, Nanosauromo, Erotomachia, MeMe, YagamiLight

for being behind the curve in posting content, pretty much in that order. YagamiLight gets another special notice for being almost perfectly non-scummy, which I am beginning to think is a scum tell. Do something scummy or I will be forced to think you are scum.

[Adel]

How about posting some real content, scum.

...still waiting.

[Adel]

The last sentence is an Oxymoron.

Or it is a

contradictio in adjecto

(contradiction in terms or in definition) to be a little more precise, which is an err in logic and therefore false in the western tradition, but it is also a doorway to truth in the eastern tradition.

[Adel]

Not at all. I think it is worth considering, and putting on the record for the days to come, that his posts are careful, precise, and absolutely do not stand out. That wiki page is crap, a strawman argument, is the expected behavior of scum is to act perfectly average than he is meeting that criterion. I'm not voting for him, and I'm not suggesting that anyone else do either, I am just wary of perfect play. He says that he can stand out when he chooses to, and I want him to choose to. By posting some content. By going out on a limb and generating the best argument he can for why a particular person is guilty. Staying hidden in the middle of the herd is not helping town. Taking risks would.

[Adel]

Can you be a little more explicit with this? Sorry, Western Tradition Brane here, and from where I sit

Voting Guardian because you believe you had zero scum on your high-content list

and

Putting Guardian on that list, hence he's not scum

Don't compute with me. Or did I misread your "I thought I had zero-for-three" comment? If I misread that, then I guess I need

that

explained better, because my Western Tradition Brane doesn't get THAT part.

I didn't immediately act on my new Superduper theory, because of the cool reception each of my previous theories got. My vote had been on Guardian for a while, and I didn't feel like changing it right away. -5 to lynch is not an emergency. I thought the "Oxymoron" statement was referring to how I made a special note at the end regarding YagLite acting. That was the only part that bore an eastern influence.


I never said that I have zero scum on my active list. I said that I expect between 1 and 3 scum to be on the inactive list. The assumption is that it is possible that there are no scum on my active list while it is nearly impossible that there are no scum on the inactive list.

Voting Guardian because you believe you had zero scum on your high-content list

and

Putting Guardian on that list, hence he's not scum

How did you get that out of my post?

Fos:

Dog_mom for being much more dense that I know her to be.

[Adel]

I'll take that note for immediate action. For now on I will try to be restrained and concise. Sorry Guardian.

Vote:ChaosOmega

[Adel]

ChaosOmega: why isn't YB a cop?

[Adel]

8 people need to vote

[Adel]

A vote for YL at this point would be silly, let alone a lynch. I expect town players to make mistakes though, because they aren't as motivated to avoid mistakes as scum are. YL said that he can stand out, and I think it would be good for the town if he did. YL's posts are excellent so far, but I think he could help the town more by some taking some personal risks by publishing theories and strong opinions.

Streeflo: My attempt to promote more published content from all players was not nullified by MeMe's post: I believe her problem is that my list is not specific enough. Note her post at #241- I am promoting content not word count. Judging by that summary, the wiki guide for playing town is crap: the same document can serve as a how-to guide for playing scum. All of its conclusions are therefore suspect.

For the record, I am not and never have been calling for a vote for YL. He is at the bottom of my scum list. He could be helping the town some more than he has been though, by posting more content.



Nanosauromo: a vote for me is something significant. Thanks for voting. I understand the case against me, what is the case against Nanook?

[Adel]

Nanosauromo: a vote for me is something significant. Thanks for voting. I understand the case against me, what is the case against Nanook?

To me, that just sounds...off. Why is a vote for you significant? And then you thank him? And you understand the case against you...so does that mean you know you're acting scummy?

So explain that second quote for me.

Because voting patterns are useful for analysis, and count as

significant

content, I thanked him. It is like the reverse of a OMGUS. Voting for the person who just voted for you is OMGUS. I am not worried about the case against me, it is clear enough to enough people that I am weird, not scummy.

I am looking forward to BattleMage's take on all of this.

[Adel]

12 pages in 7 days so far... will we need more than 24 pages to lynch someone? It is just a mini.

Could the rest of the town please vote? If someone gets to -3 or -2 to lynch, then don't, but we can at least use our votes to pressure some content out of those we consider may be scum.

[Adel]

@Adel, there is no point people voting unless they have some suspicions. making them commit to a vote is a protownish request, but such action could lead to wagonning, and a quick-lynch.

Hence the caution to stop when someone is at -3 or -2. Or do you think scum would drop the last two votes to hammer a townie? How can people

not

have suspicions at this point? I look at my notes and I don't have nearly enough information on a number of people. Having more votes to look at may help me separate signal from noise.

Someone credited you with the "logic=scumtell" argument. Was that slander?

[Adel]

You'll see what I was trying to collect votes for in a couple of hours.

[Adel]

Counts Guardian's unvote/vote/unvote in post #212 as just an unvote

Does not include Adel's 6 person FoS in post #246

Disclaimer: this graphic will probably contain errors or omissions, they are very easy to make. Please vet your own activity and post corrections.

[Adel]

huh. I thought I just showed you.

[Adel]

[Adel]

huh. I thought I just showed you.

Perhaps I'm slow...I don't quite get it. Is it that Nekka-Lucifer and YagamiLight have never voted? And interestingly enough, no one has ever voted for Streetflo.

Although I just noticed that there are some omissions. For example, I'm pretty sure that MeMe voted for Nekka-Lucifer at one point.

I was talking to YogurtBandit not YL when I said "I though I just showed you."

You are totally correct about MeMe having voted for NL, I am not sure how I missed that. Thanks for catching it. If there is more than one other error I'll posted a corrected graphic.

[Adel]

Not real happy with the "I've got reasons and I'm not gonna tell you, neener neener neener", though. I understand, yes, so far they've been harmless, but...well...

I'm actually starting to enjoy that as a tactic. The reactions it draws are interesting, and possibly informative. I starting to become sensitive to the difference between the scummy things that are sometimes said and the clumsy or imprecise things that can be twisted into sounding scummy.

I also don't like how some people seem to think this needs to be a game about social conformity. "The nail that sticks out gets nailed down."

Dogmom: what is your take on ChaosOmega?

[Adel]

Nanook: Would you be willing to weigh in on all of this? We haven't heard much from you other than the cop stuff.

[Adel]

Good catch!

How did of a contradiction do you think it is?

I think it lends more weight to the earlier theory (and I can't remember who the credit goes to for this- Guardian?) that YB made a fake-claim to confuse the doctor and draw protection off of Guardian. Lies are harder to keep track of than truth.

I'm not convinced just by this yet.

Can I make a suggestion, and get a fair hearing for it? Can we all brainstorm the best case against YB? I'm not proposing a bandwagon, just a cooperative collection of the evidence against him? I've never voted for him, nor have I been very suspicious of him, but I have could easily missed something more damning. Is there anything else?

If there isn't, then that one contradiction of his isn't much worse than my "do something scummy" line.

[Adel]

How

did

much

of a contradiction do you think it is?

[Adel]

The overreaction is more damning to me than the contradiction.

FoS:YogurtBandit

It is what you said. He quoted you fairly.

I mess up my words and end up with something people understand to mean something other than what I intended on a regular basis. That is life, and the risks you run by posting.

Now I'm going to take a deep breath and take a long look at YB's posts in context in thread.

[Adel]

Look, at this point this is, as far as I can tell, two townies shouting at each other and kicking a lot of dust for nothing. I think it's getting distracting and it's adding to the noise in the thread, and isn't being at all helpful to town.

Yep, so keep it down you two.

[Adel]

Nanook: Would you be willing to weigh in on all of this? We haven't heard much from you other than the cop stuff.

Nanook?

Are you out there?

[Adel]

FoA: Guardian

Finger of acquittal. I withdraw my earlier suspicions and accusations. Unless Battlemage develops some

really

compelling reason why my original Nanook+Guardian scumpair theory is correct, Guardian is now on my lowest tier of suspicion.

If anyone can find something compelling in his post history, please share it. I do not see any major tells.

[Adel]

My rationale is that I am trying to reduce the signal to noise ratio. That is why I chose the words, "I withdraw my earlier suspicions and accusations." I now think the noise I generated in your direction earlier was mostly noise. Knowing my luck, the act of me trying to reduce noise will only add to it. I gotta try though

Is that enough of an explanation for you?

[Adel]

YL: try asking a specific question. Looking through your posts it isn't clear to me what you want to hear from him.

Just trying to help.

[Adel]

New tactic:

Do not lynch until there are

two

probable candidates, each with about enough support to lynch. This will force players to take a pretty serious position on two players, which will be good information regardless of the results of investigations and the eventual lynch

Debating the merits of the cases against two good candidates will generate lots of information for later analysis, and act as a quality assurance check. Support of this tactic will require a deadline extension.

Mod: respectfully request deadline extension

[Adel]

Sometimes I think I would be better off if I just lurked.

[Adel]

Sometimes I think I would be better off if I just lurked.

Damnit, it didn't stop to consider how scummy that sounds. What I meant was: would it be better for town if I stopped posting for a while? It seems to me that I am generating more noise than anything else so far.

[Adel]

Sometimes I think I would be better off if I just lurked.

Damnit, it didn't stop to consider how scummy that sounds. What I meant was: would it be better for town if I stopped posting for a while? It seems to me that I am generating more noise than anything else so far.

Yeah Nice cover up.

vote:Adel

What is this? Page 2? Put it into the contest of my four(!) pages of writing so far in this game. Creating noise is something I am very guilty of. Being scum isn't. It isn't like I outed a power role or something (sorry Nanook) I just choose poor words. See Hanlon's razor.

[Adel]

Dog_mom: the quote is original, I just put it in a box to offset it from everything else.

Nanook: I was just being polite. You've taken enough grief for that already, and I didn't want to cause you more.

[Adel]

I think we have more than two candidates already. Or are you just trying to buy time for yourself?

Yeah with two votes on me (at the time of that post) I was really worried about getting quick-lynched.

Could you lay out your full case against me? So far in your 11-post post history I see you accusing me of trying to speed things up, slow things down, and nail me for my two crappy lines out of four pages of text. Lets see how many scumtells you generate by the time you've typed out half as many words as me.

Mind you, I'm not promoting word count as an indicator of innocence, just pointing out that a whole lot of writing risks sloppy syntax.

What is you case Nanosauromo?

[Adel]

I didn't take offense to the comment Adel, I just suggested that you were using that remark as a defense as to why you're not acting scummy .. Has nothing to do with my personal feelings, Just an observation.

Well, I was using the remark as a defense, by giving some perspective with the comparison.

You bit my head off earlier, so I was trying to be sensitive about it. I was calling you stupid in an indirect way by comparing my stupid action to your's, but I didn't want to cause offense.

[Adel]

Adel I have been suspicious of for most of the game, she created a lot of noise that she is trying to backtrack from, and has had some really, really scummy posts. I could be OK with an Adel lynch.

Could you wait until ChaosOmega and Nanosauromo explain their cases against me before you air your's? They need a chance to post some good content since both have been lurking pretty hard. I admit that I am a decent candidate thanks to some sloppy & excessive posting, so it shouldn't be too hard for them.

[Adel]

Adel: OK... but I am waiting for BM's thoughts on you, as well, so don't be surprised when after three other players post cases/thoughts on you, that my opinions have something in common with theirs.

I don't think anyone has accused you of lurking. No worries.

[Adel]

A game just finished where Dog_mom won as scum I won't even attempt to meta-game her, but the information is there is some else wants to.

Nanosauromo- because there is the beginnings of a wagon on me, I wanted a chance to respond, you haven't posted much content so far, and I don't want scum to be able to coast behind the opinions of Guardian.

[Adel]

While I am very close to voting for Nanosauromo, in his defense he has no other activity in other threads. I'll wait for a post from him before I decide.

On the other hand, if you go to the profile screen belonging to Battle Mage, and list all posts by that user, you have to look through 2&1/2 pages to find his last Theoville post. Those of you who've played with him before, which is more likely:
a. he forgot about this game, and didn't add it to his watched topics or something
b. he is using lurking as a deliberate tactic.

His game-post average is over 13 a day.

Battle Mage, where are you?

[Adel]

Edit: I'm also waiting for a post from ChaosOmega before I may decide to change my vote from him to Nanosauromo. CO had a little post activity ~8 hours and ~30 hours after last posting on here on Thursday.

[Adel]

So we've heard from Nanosauromo. I would still like Chaos_Omega to explain why his vote is on me. Is it still just because of the two lines he quoted a while back?

[Adel]

Did that count as hearing more from Nanosauromo?

[Adel]

Oh, sorry, I just asked a rhetorical question. I don't think he has been very forthcoming or cooperative. Anti-town.

Take a look at his post history, and compare it to any player other than NK or Battle Mage. Compare it to ChaosOmega. There is a clear difference in post content and quality. Nanosauromo is way below average.

While lurking does not = scum, lurking is anti-town. Have any of his posts been insightful or informative? No. He has continued to post as little as possible, engaging the conversation as little as possible, without utterly disappearing. His positions have been unoriginal, his and votes have been against the easy targets and placed without providing the rationale behind them.

For me his evasiveness is is primary scumtell.

[Adel]

unvote:ChaosOmega vote:Nanosauromo

I'm waiting for answers from ChaosOmega and a good long example of Batle Mage working his magick.

[Adel]

Yep. I'm glad you're tracking this thread so closely. See anything worth posting some analysis about yet?

[Adel]

Guardian: I think I've one of the two good candidates, and I'll show you why:

Okay, time for the list of scummy Adel quotes:

Here is another crazy idea I just thought of: In addition to or regular vote in the regular format we also post

VigKill: Player ZZZZZ

and

un:Vigkill

. Based on the games I've read, 50-75% of these games have a vig, but they usually don't do much good, killing townies or not killing at all.

This just provides more information for the scum, while distracting people from discussion of the lynch.

Incorrect. The additional information would assist power roles much more than scum, as well as establish clearer relationships between players for deeper analysis later in the game. It may help prevent a cop from investigating the target of a vig. It may help a vig make an informed decision about who to target. I don't like how the criticism of this idea turned to "don't tell the power roles what to do, " because any suggestion will only be a reccomendation there is no way to enforce it. Also coordination between power roles, even when in public, may grant an edge to town. For instance,

if

we decided that it would be better if both cops didn't target the same person, one cop could say "I'll investigate one of these three names," then the other cop could investigate someone else. If we decided that it would be better for both cops to investigate the same person, to help establish sanity, alignment or whatever, that decision making process would have to be in the open. If we had a vig, he could say "tonight I'll target one of these two people" and would thereby reduce the chances of a cop wasting an investigation on a corpse. Having that information necessary for this process in the open for the scum to see wouldn't benefit the scum nearly as much as it would benefit the town. That is why Nanosauromo's claim that my ploy would "just" provide information for the scum is not fair or accurate.

Would the information gleaned from this process distract people from the discussion of the lynch? No. An example: currently I think Nanosauromo is our best target for a lynch, and ChaosOmega would be my second pick. That is the exact same information that I was asking for in my post. The only difference being that I suggested that the second pick should be set off from the rest of the post by being in the format

VigKill: Player ZZZZZ

. That is all the effort it would take from each player, hardly a distraction. There would be no reason to have a majority, it would be a clear way to provide more information, reducing the signal to noise ratio.

YagamiLight gets another special notice for being almost perfectly non-scummy, which I am beginning to think is a scum tell. Do something scummy or I will be forced to think you are scum.

See the too townie Fallacy / Catch-22.

This was a little tounge-in-cheek, and a little zen, and widely misunderstood. I would expect the superior scum player to maintain a low profile and drop zero or nearly zero scum tells through careful and conservative posting. YL fits that profile. I get the wiki article, and I could deconstruct it as being the work of two specific players who can be called out by that argument, but I do not know for sure that is true. Be weary of the wiki, it is not the Bible, and anything in it can be meta-gamed is people take it too seriously. Be skeptical. I am skeptical of my own judgment, because I am familiar with my capacity to be wrong. In my opinion, YL is the least scummy player, and I have said that in a couple of other posts, both before and after the post in question. Since I see YL as the least scummy, I am weary of YL. That is how my mind works, and I was trying to share what I saw as being a possibly valuable insight. Take it or leave it, but it is not a reason to indite.

12 pages in 7 days so far... will we need more than 24 pages to lynch someone? It is just a mini.

Could the rest of the town please vote? If someone gets to -3 or -2 to lynch, then don't, but we can at least use our votes to pressure some content out of those we consider may be scum.

Rushing the town to vote is bad.

I love how you accused me of trying to speed the game up, and your second post after that you accused me of trying to slow the game down, calling both scumtells. I think it is disingenuous for you to only repeat one of your accusations. What made you decide which one to post?
Notice that I posted a graphic shortly after my plead for more votes, a graphic that didn't have nearly as much information as I hoped it would. More votes cast by more players would've improved the informational content of my graphic. I wasn't asking for a lynch, in fact I specifically asked people to stop 2 or 3 votes short of a lynch. I posted the other reason for my plea, that more votes would = more pressure, that could force more content from those we suspect. I do not see how this quote is damning either.

Do not lynch until there are

two

probable candidates, each with about enough support to lynch. This will force players to take a pretty serious position on two players, which will be good information regardless of the results of investigations and the eventual lynch.

Yet you've already listed several scumm candidates, including Nanook, ChaosOmega, YL, and myself.

... and Guardian earlier. This was another idea that I thought may help town. I thought that in the interests of clear information, and to help us be sure of or choice for the lynch, a debate of the merits of two probable candidates would allow us to brainstorm and generate more conclusive evidence inditing or clearing each candidate. I do not know how we would select the two candidates, but suppose we as a group choose Nanosauromo and Adel as the two candidates. All players could debate the merits of each, generating more actual content for later analysis, and if a majority or super majority (8 players) felt really confident of one of the candidates I think that would improve our odds of a good lynch. If a majority didn't feel confident, we could move on to the next most probable candidate. To give this plan a chance to work, I even went so far as to suggest that a time extension should be requested. Notice Nanosauromo snipped that part off.

This is my case against Nanosauromo
His posts are not ever insightful or informative? He has continued to post as little as possible, engaging the conversation as little as possible, without utterly disappearing. His positions have been unoriginal, his votes have been against the easy targets and placed without providing the rationale behind them. He has been uncooperative. Is accusations against me are weak, recycled from others, and not objectively argued. Notice his omissions. Notice his evasiveness. Notice we never got a "The List Of People Who Seem Scummy To Nano" post. We got excuses for why he wasn't posting analysis.

Could he be a poor player who is not capable of generating analysis? Yes. I would not be comfortable lynching Nano until we get more from CO and BM. I would also like to see a little more from Streeflo and Ecto as well right now. I would like to see Dog_mom and Nanook take serious stands for and against a couple of people. I would love to see MeMe drop a 7 paragraph logic bomb on this thread. I would like to see all of the above before we lynch anyone, and I am beginning to worry about the deadline. Less than 5 days now. YB is out of consideration because of his claim, CO shares some faults with Nano, but Nano is the best candidate for scum that I can see.

Why am I innocent? I take risks. I am not afraid to look a little scummy in the interest of generating ideas that may help the town. I continually generate new ideas and analysis, original opinions and asking questions. Even with outspoken and articulate critics, I've continued to produce. My major sin so far is the number of words I've produced. A few errors in tone and syntax have caused a distraction for the town, and that hasn't helped me or the town. I am intellectually honest, I've admitted when I think I've been wrong. I think it is obvious that I try to present arguments fairly and dispassionately. I am alway trying a new way of helping the town. Because I have not been afraid of looking a little scummy I've taken several intellectual risks by forwarding possible ploys for consideration. Some of my ideas have been flawed, but I believe my intent and alignment have shown through. My towniness is showing.

[Adel]

Where is WIFOM in Aristotle's

Organon

? Did you have some advanced coursework that presented WIFOM as a topic? No, you read about it on a wiki, or saw it used as a counter argument in a game.

Anyway, what I did is an example of deductive reasoning:

1. Good scum

may

try to stay hidden by playing as moderately as possible, and not dropping any scum tells. (Major premise)
2. YL is playing as moderately as possible, and is not dropping any scum tells. (Minor premise)
3. Therefore YL

may

be scum.

If you want to attack my argument, attack either the major or the minor premise. Discarding my argument as being "too townie" or "WIFOM" is sloppy thinking.

And, to be fair, I asked YL to start taking risks, to stop being so careful and moderate in his posts. That way he would be more likely to make more mistakes. If he is scum, my assumption is that his mistakes would be greater. Either way, I wanted him to take more actions for later analysis.

[Adel]

My theory is that being too careful is a little anti-town, assuming that the resulting increase in information and activity by not being too careful is worth more than the increased chance of a mis-lynch. I may be wrong. I certainly do not have this game figured out yet.

[Adel]

If you think my amount of posting is a tell then I invite you to meta-game me. >16 posts a day. Only one finished game. (where Dog_mom won easily as scum)

A little bell keeps going off in my head telling me that this game isn't a two cop game...

Me too, but I do not think it is worth the risk day 1. Two cops of unknown sanity is just plausible enough for me to doubt that little bell. I am not sure what the best way to identify the sanity and alignments of our claimed cop are, or if I should post my guesses. I think suggesting a course of action in this instance may potentially benefit the scum more than the town (I may be learning). Worth talking about.

[Adel]

[quote="Adel"]
On the other hand, if you go to the profile screen belonging to Battle Mage, and list all posts by that user, you have to look through 2&1/2 pages to find his last Theoville post. Those of you who've played with him before, which is more likely:
a. he forgot about this game, and didn't add it to his watched topics or something
b. he is using lurking as a deliberate tactic.[/quote

Now he is promising to post the same day as the deadline?

Looks like b. to me.

unvote vote:Battle Mage

[Adel]

Why switch your vote to BM just a few hours later after you lay out such a good case on NanoS?

Always lynch the liar. The dude has posted many many posts elsewhere since he replaced into this game.

I still think Nano make a good candidate, but the chance that he is just a lousy townie are far greater than the chance that BM was telling the truth. Immediately pressuring him is a good idea; lynching him is a good idea once he has had a chance to respond to his wagon.

I copied my earlier post (and messed up the tags) to show that I'd introduced the possibility that he was lurking as a deliberate tactic much earlier. Now he's lied about it. I believe that he has exams, but his posts elsewhere prove that he's had time to post here.

[Adel]

Adel 4 - Guardian, YogurtBandit, Nanosauromo, ChaosOmega
Battle Mage 3 - MeMe, Adel, DogMom
Nanosauromo 2 -Erotomachia, NanookTheWolf
[/b]

To me that is very illuminating, a pretty picture isn't necessary. Votes provide good information.

Guardian I am not suspicious of, and BM didn't vote, but otherwise I pretty much see players grouped by alignment.

I expect to find at least two scum among YogurtBandit, Nanosauromo, ChaosOmega, and Battle Mage.

And spare me the OMGUS finger pointing. I see who is voting for me.

[Adel]

What I think is awesome is that your first two votes, early in the game, were on N-L and CO, over a week ago. Since then you

have not mentioned the names of anyone on my scum list even once.

BM makes a blunder, no comment from you. Nano at least seems to peg on most people's scum meter, yet no comment from you. No questions for them, and no defense of them.
Each of the people on my list, in my opinion, have a greater than 50% chance of being scum. I expect 2 of you are scum, with a small possibly of three.

I think this card is true.

[Adel]

er.. you did have a little exchange with CO last Wednesday where you accused each other of not posting content, and when BM replaced in you said something like "oh no, not BM". So it has almost been a week.

Apologies to everyone for missing that.

I still feel confident of my card though.

YB: first vote on N-L->2nd vote on CO->exchanges posts with CO last Wed->never mentions Nano
N-L/BM:never votes, never really accuses anyone
Nano: never mentions any of the others, until last post which may be prep for bussing his buddy
CO: first vote on N-L->2nd vote on YB->continues to point call YB scummy through last post->never mentions Nano

CO has fingered YB, otherwise no relations.

The lack of relations between them is a scum tell. This could be a function of lurking, however Streeflo and Erotomachia (I see both as lurkers right now) don't have a similar lack of relations with the members of my scum list.

I have independent reasons for being suspicious of each person on my card, & the lack of relations between them is the cherry.

[Adel]

As Adel alluded to, I am not sure if I am in good company on the Adel wagon, though... She isn't that close to lynch, but my heavy suspicion of two of my would be lynching partners alone is enough to make me wonder if Adel should be the play.

On a personal note, I appreciate that you seem to actually

read

my posts. It is cool that you think I'm scum or whatever because of them, at least that is a reaction which keeps me from thinking that they aren't even being read at all- other than to pick some small error of phrase. [/end personal note]

I find it odd that BM has the time to defend himself, post links, scan the thread often enough to reply to MeMe, ect... while he still doesn't have time to post an analysis of the game. That shows the existence of some free time. Also, unless I'm mistaken, exams are scheduled out pretty far in advance. Why replace into a game that is kick'n with a dealine during exam week? I'm keeping my vote on BM. There is plenty of time before the deadline for him to clear himself, and the pressure of a few vote will help to motivate his participation.

[Adel]

About BM saying MeMe misinterpreted him...

I've just looked at his most recent posts elsewhere, though, and here's a quick list where it looks like he's not getting heat (of course, I'm just skimming), which is at odds with his claim that he's only contributing because "lazy townies have started a 'Lynch-BM Fest'" and in which he seems to be contributing more than his quote "im hardly posting 'content' in other games. Im simply posting responses to what i see," implies. <snip>

I'm assuming you mean here, and for the first part where MeMe says, "which is at odds with his claim that he's only contributing because "lazy townies have started a 'Lynch-BM Fest'"

actually, its only 4 i think. probably because lazy townies have started a "Lynch-BM Fest" Laughing <snip>

You did indeed say here that there were only four games for you to link due to the Lynch-BM fest.
And for MeMe saying, "in which he seems to be contributing more than his quote "im hardly posting 'content' in other games. Im simply posting responses to what i see," implies." You say that here...

oh and btw, im hardly posting 'content' in other games. Im simply posting responses to what i see, in contrast to games which require rereads, and thus i have not been awesomely active here. <snip>

I've read your post four times and I am still not sure what you mean by it, or what you think it shows. Honestly. Could you explain?

[Adel]

Nanook: I forgot how outspoken you were against NanoS. Sorry. Other than him, I don't see you for or against anyone else until your last post. Your vote on NanoS was pretty much just for voting for me, but you seem very careful not to actually defend me in that post. I'm not trying to pressure you or anything, but I would be interested in reading your thoughts on other players.

YL: Do you think the confusion was deliberate, like MeMe was being unfair to BM, or do you think she made an honest mistake?

[Adel]

*smacks forehead*
Reading comprehension error.

EBWOP:

YL: Do you think the confusion was deliberate, like BM was being unfair to MeMe, or do you think he made an honest mistake?

[Adel]

So a tactical vote for pressure and encouragement is no longer a good idea? I think it is. I really don't like the idea of potential scum lurking their way into day 2. My vote stays, with NanoS being my fall-back option.

[Adel]

Come on Nano! Post something

Real

! Every time you post one of these useless, already observed one-liners I see you as scum.

[Adel]

Battle Mage: I have a suggestion: drop the whole MeMe thing. She isn't even voting for you anymore. No one is basing a vote on your lengthy and probably time-consuming exchanges, yet.

Read the whole thread, weigh in on a couple of issues with the level of analysis you are obviously capable of. Cast a vote for someone other than MeMe and fling a couple of FoS's around. That is what would help the town. I don't see you convincing anyone into joining you on the MeMe wagon today. More noise along the lines of "I don't have time to post; I'm being mis-represented" doesn't help the town, and makes you look both scummy and insincere.

[Adel]

lol so you would actually rather i voted for you?
unfortunately, you have me a bit wrong. You see, my vote on MeMe is based on more than just OMGUS. i am pretty sure that MeMe is scum. if there is one thing i have learnt in Mafia, it is to stand by your beliefs. I dont see how farsically pretending to go after others will help atall, especially when we are near a deadline.
Obviously, if it comes to a choice between lynch and no-lynch, i will choose the former, but there is still time to lynch MeMe scum.

I do not know what "farsically" means- I'll assume your typo doesn't change the meaning of your sentence. Yes, I would rather you vote for me than leave a meaningless vote on MeMe. If you did your homework for this game, and I suspect you have, you would have at least one other suspect worthy of your vote. I read your reaction as a ploy to distract the town, possibly from NanoS. That would account for the post he directed at you: an attempt to split the town vote further while feeding the distraction.

*oh and fyi-how the hell can the most honest comments i make be the most insincere? i mean, even if i WAS scum in this game, the fact that i dont have time to read is the truth.

Your posts prove that you

do

have time to read. Players with exams often post that they have exams and disappear for a few days, perhaps attracting a couple or three votes in the process. They don't log back in to type out pages of defense, day after day. You did. In more than one game.

**btw-if you are so keen that we avoid No-Lynching, why the heck are you voting for me???-(someone with equal votes to MeMe)

My vote, and posts directed at you seem to be having the desired effect- motivating you to post more. What effect is your vote and posts directed at MeMe having?

I have four people on my list of probable scum. I would love to remove you from that list and my vote from you. You could help with that. You really haven't been so far.

[Adel]

Mine is generating evidence.

[Adel]

Not a logical fallacy: I didn't place bounds on the choice. More precise language would read, "these additional choices, others may not have considered." If I presented a strict either/or choice you would be correct.

When it comes to

all

of my power role suggestions, what is the end effect? Noise. I felt that it would be noise effecting the scum worse than the town, and therefore is a pro-town action that just looks a little scummy to the other townies. Also, most people on here seem to have a problem evaluating recursive in an analytic way. The more "recursive logic bombs" we plant for scum the better. I thought the vig thing was a good idea, & I still do, and I think there are a couple of decent ideas in that doc quote you found. Do you think my posts are more confusing for the town, or for scum? Guardian is all spun out on me, and I think he is town, so I can only hope that my intended effects are as intense as the expected side-effects.

Mafia has a learning curve, and during this game my playstyle shifted from "total transparency/ wall of words" to "noise is anti-town: keep it down in there."

unvote: BM, vote:Nanosauromo

pending BM's IOU post.

[Adel]

I see BM as possibly setting himself to drop a hammer vote.

I changed my vote back to NanoS because BM stopped taking the bait. My vote stopped generating evidence- and started being meaningless.

It looks like the choice is pretty much coming down to me and NanoS. I guess there is the possibility of a late wagon on BM or someone else, but I don't see it happening.

Please be careful about putting additional votes on me. I can see a BM hammer attached to a long post excusing it, in my future. Not good for town.

[Adel]

Are you trying the "I'm just a really horrible player" defense?

[Adel]

Tuesday it made sense, Wednesday it made sense, Friday my vote on BM stopped making sense. He'd stopped reacting, and the deadline was looming. I've supported the NanoS wagon for a while now- I was never really off of it, but a tactical vote on BM bore fruit. It helped show how much time he really had available for this game.

How does my vote going back to NanoS seem "convenient" to you? I feel he is the correct lynch for today.

It just rubs me the wrong way, because you are trying to convince people not to vote you with just rhetoric and not logic.

So the possibility of BM being scum and dropping a hammer vote (attached to a long post of excuses) on a town player does not seem realistic to you? Just rhetoric?

It just rubs me the wrong way, because you are trying to convince people not to vote you with just rhetoric and not logic.

Does that make your post an example of rhetoric or logic?

You've held on to this notion that I am scum for a long time now. Please be fair.

[Adel]

You want a nolynch?

Fos:YB

[Adel]

Interestingly, both claimed cops are voting Adel. Adel fishes A LOT. Potential relationship with MeMe. Makes a poll, which looks quite protown. Makes that comment about directing the vig, which is either totally dumb, or very scummy. I could potentially see over-confident over-active scum. More analysis of players. Pbpa doesn’t reveal a lot. Desperately pushes for people to commit to votes. Appears over-keen for an early lynch.
Later requests for a deadline extension. Possibly trying to look good. Comments on my absence. Later votes for me based on a fallacy. Nice. Also calls me a liar-odd when I hadn’t even said anything. lol
Then makes perhaps the scummiest post of the entire game. The one begging me to stop pressuring MeMe. It makes little sense for a protown player to say that-especially such a competent one.
Panics that im going to hammer her. Odd seeing as im one of several people not to vote, and I had given little indication that I thought she was scummy. Continues making evidence out of thin air.

You are a liar. You said you didn't have time to post, then you posted quite a bit. you said that you would post a long analysis on Friday, now you "don't have access" and it is now Saturday.

I hoped you'd type out some magick words like "aecimagbnihititia aioivonv" that would illuminate this game and break it wide open for town. Instead we get this post from you. Acting pretty much as I had predicted. I thought the degree to which N-L was lurking was scummy. I'm glad your active behavior confirms my hunch.

How many other players found my post directed at BM regarding his vote on MeMe to be "One of the scummiest in the game?" I can think of a few

I've

written which are scummier.

Guardian and BM have both posted inditing me. See how Guardian's posts are really critical but are factually accurate? BM's aren't. Guardian's vote for me isn't a reason for me to think he is scum.

BM: Give us a PBPA in support of your accusations, so that I can respond in kind. I accuse you of mindfully warping the evidence against me in support of your case, and I believe that a full and frank debate upon each of your points raised will expose you as scum attempting to prevent the lynch of NanoS.

[Adel]

It looks like I was totally wrong about both BM and NanoS. My guess is vig over SK or two factions as the cause of the second death, and that our three scum choose Erotomachia and not BM.

Hopefully a cop cleared me, else there is a noose in my future, for sure.

[Adel]

YB then Guardian get my vote, for order to reveal information. It took me a sec to realize that Theo is our mod.

[Adel]

Since Guardian is wrong that means he is insane and not scum, right? A scum fake-claiming cop would report an innocent result, right?

[Adel]

I investigated Adel because I realized that if I got a guilty on YB, he would say "Oh, you must be insane". If I got an innocent on him, that would prove that there are two cops, but I highly doubted that I would get an innocent result on him. Also, if he is really a cop, more suspicion was on him at that point, and I was sure he would be NK'd if innocent because he would be less likely to draw potential doc protection.

You are forgetting that naive & paranoid are possible cop sanity.

Possible power role combinations based on evidence so far:
a: 1 sane cop, 1 insane cop (or naive or paranoid), 1 vig
b: 1 sane cop, 1 vig
c: 1 insane (or naive or paranoid) cop, 1 vig.
d: 2 insane cops (or naive or paranoid) cops, 1 vig

If there were a mafia RB, I think they would've used him.
There could be a Godfather.

We all agree that there isn't a SK.

Lynching me or MeMe wouldn't prove much.

Possible lynch results:
e)Adel is town: Guardian is paranoid or lying scum. Or our mod is a bastard for making me a miller without telling me.
f)Adel is scum: Guardian is paranoid or sane.
g)MeMe is scum: YB is naive, or lying scum
h)MeMe is Town: YB is sane, or naive.

Can cops investigate themselves?

I don't think the NKs help us determine the alignment of either of our cop claims. WIFOM and fear of a doc could've kept scum away from both cops. Not wanting to out a cop-fake claim could as well.

2/5ths of my voters died last night, and were town. That creates a strange feeling.

[Adel]

Flavor text. 1 kill night 0: our mayor via gun. Night 1 one gun shot and one wire around the neck. I think SK and I picture axes, hatchets and chainsaws. A gory mess. Strangling is pretty personal, but not as demented. Three people walked away guiltily according to the flavor text. 3 mafia + 1 SK, does that seem like a probable amount of scum? BM would be a terrible choice for a NK if we had a SK, but would be an obvious choice for a vig.

[Adel]

Guardian: why did you want YB to announce his investigation first? It seemed important to you, but I'm not clear as to why it was.

[Adel]

YL: I see your point, but I think the more obvious scum move is to report an innocent result on a suspect player. This is WIFOM territory though.

I've ruled out the possibility that we have two sane cops in my mind. Guardian is either lying or not sane, my bet is he is not sane. In my mind that makes YB and MeMe confirmed innocent, and Guardian a probable innocent.

vote:Streeflo

[Adel]

Here is a question for the Adel doubters in the audience: why would I risk looking scummy so many times if I were scum? I think it should be obvious that I am capable of careful and modest posts that don't even hint of scum and don't attract a lot of attention.

So how quick is this Adel wagon going to be? I'll be offline from Friday until Sunday night (Pacific Daylight Time, GMT -7) and I would hate to get lynched while I am away.

[Adel]

Argh, that again. I, thinking that you were a townie player playing it safe, tried to prod you into becoming more active and taking more risk in your postings. I think it is ok to be a little scummy if you are town, but it is a delicate line. Conservative and cautious play means taking less risks, and developing less relationships with other players which can be analyzed later. On the same page, if memory severs, or maybe it was in the same post, I called you the least scummy player. Despite all the aggravation that post has caused me, I think it worked, you have played a lot more actively since then, and you've added a lot to the conversation. Maybe you would have anyway, But I would like to think that I helped nudge you in that direction

[Adel]

My point was that like you said there that you think it's okay to be a little scummy if you are town, and therefore, your post about why would you look scummy if you were scum is to look lie your not trying to avoid it.

I see your point. ummm.... but I'm not scum Other than about a 50-50 shot of me being scum (Guardian has ~50% chance of being sane) who else is there any evidence on? I feel like pressuring players who were on the NanoS bandwagon, and honestly Eco would be my first choice of who to pressure if he wasn't killed last night.

[Adel]

He is some possibly valid logic. I'll try to be as clear and dispassionate as possible in the hope reducing noise as much as possible.

1. Ecto was a townie.
2. Ecto was killed by scum.
3. At least one scum player was on the NanoS wagon
4. Scum choose to kill a player they thought was obviously innocent.
5. Scum thought Ecto was obviously innocent because he acted in what they considered a very townie way.
6. At least 1 Scum player, probably the most influential, acted in a way very similar to Ecto, which is why that scum player has not been under suspicion recently if at all.
7. If we identify the player on the NanoS wagon how acted most like Ecto, that player is likely scum.
8. Streeflo, NanookTheWolf, MeMe, Adel, Guardian, and Ecto were on the Wagon that mislynched NanoS.
9. MeMe, Adel & Guardian acted nothing like Ecto.
10. NanookTheWolf or Streeflo are scum.

Constructive criticism?

[Adel]

Random much?

Less random than eerily accurate, I hope.

Guardian: note that I am not attacking you for reaching that conclusion. Chances are I will be lynched, especially for pushing so hard against both NanoS and BM. Two frigging townies. Argh.

So what can I do to help the town before I get a raw hemp neck-tie? By collecting evidence and parsing it in a useful way, so that when my alignment is revealed my legacy will be some useful contributions.

Since I have the advantage of knowing that I am definitely a townie, I can jump start tomorrow's analysis of who is scum, since I feel my innocence pretty much clears three other players.

In the interest of keeping the noise down, I think it is a good idea for me not to defend myself much. I thinnk my lynch is pretty much inevitable, but as a capable player there is a reasonable chance that I can help the town in the meantime. Also, judging by BM's corpse, our vig could use a little help as well. He will know that I am town, and hopefully my posts will assist him in making a more accurate decision tonight.

[Adel]

That is why I like playing with Guardian, the great posting. I think we would make a great scumpair, man those PMs would fly

I see your point about MeMe acting like Ecto, but I'm ruling her out since I've determined that you are more likely insane than scum, YB is a sane COp and his investigation on MeMe was accurate. If you are paranoid and YB is naive, the odds are awefuly slim that you would investigate a townie and he would investigate a scum.

Streeflo has attracted almost no suspicion all game. I don't particularly like lynching people solely because they haven't attracted suspicion... but he could be a lurking scum. Also, no offense Streeflo, but I don't see him being the most influential scum, whereas Nanook I could see in that position.

I have a couple of separate and unrelated tells against Streeflo. Based on that argument alone Nanook seems more likely.

There are holes in my argument though, and I could use some help filling them. There is also a chance that it is bunk, which means that we may have to discard it. That would be a good pro-town result as well.

Adel, there were probably scum not on the NanoS wagon too.

I think that is a given. Both big wagons were against townies. The chances that three scum were on the same wagon are almost nil.

Would the above theory not apply to them, too?

We could widen the argument to include people on the Adel wagon who acted like Ecto... that would be CO then? He did target BM with an unusual level of activity, but I think that is a hard sell.

I could see you as scum using the additional information that you have accidentally and ruling those players out.

Hey, if I am scum, then all of these posts of mine are noise, and are probably better off ignored. Would you be able to predict if I would work harder to clear scum or townies if I am scum? I doubt it.

I do not 100% agree with your case, but it does have some merit. If I am indeed not sane, then you would be innocent along with MeMe and YB... and we would only have to look through five players to find the three scum... I still think you are scum though, at the moment. If you are not scum, that gives us so much information, and if you are scum, it helps us out a lot too.

I hate to disagree on this point, but I think that if I wee scum my posts really wouldn't help you out too much.

So assuming that I am correct about YB, Guardian and MeMe... only Jaylen, Co, Nanook, YL, and Streeflo could be scum. It would be wonderfully ironic if the scummiest thing I said yesterday, to YL, helped to coach him and cover for him. YL is the least scummy in that group though, in my estimation. If you look at the graphic I posted back at post #299 or #300 there is quite a bit of distance between all five of them. Except for Co, none of them drew any votes from anyone, except for YB's crap vote on YL, and Streeflo's only vote or FOS at that point was on Nanook.
Dogmom, who I've played with before when she was scum, (finished game, don't worry) kept voting distance from her scum mate, but FoS'd him. This train og thought makes me think that there is a good chance that Jaylen is scum, and re-enforces my suspicion that Nanook is scum. Nanook's outing of Guardian as cop still doesn't make sense to me if he is scum or if he is town though, since I think that both Yb and Guardian are town. I'll have to think some more.

[Adel]

Adel looks extremely protown to me, but I believe Guardian is a sane cop, so I think I believe Guardian's results. I'm not sure I want to vote him yet though.

What makes you think Guardian is sane?

Streeflo, do your think you meant that one of the following is true:

1. Guardian is Paranoid & YB is sane
2. YB is lying scum and Guardian is ????
3. Guardian is Lying scum and YB is sane

Did I understand that much correctly? What goes in the place of the ???? ?

Guardian. I'm generating a new graphic. I'll respond to you post after I'm finished with it.

[Adel]

[Adel]

CO: nice theory. I appreciate that you think you are saving the vig from a lynch. Also, It took a lot of work to clip all of those posts. I think I know who the vig really is, but it is impolite to go fishing for power roles. Can you turn those analytic skills on exposing who you think is scum?

[Adel]

This is all great that you want to leave a legacy, but I wonder to what extent responding to you is waste of time - if you are scum this is all pointless.

Totally.

If you are town, then why not say that you are, and defend yourself?

OK, I'll keep it short though. I'm town.

I say that I am town, and Guardian says that he is a cop.
possibilities:
1. I am lying, Guardian is a sane cop.
2. I am town, Guardian is lying.
3. I am town, Guardian is insane or paranoid.

I think 3. is the most likely possibility. If I was scum would I've been that outspoken against two townies? The only other player that made a case against both BM and NanoS was Guardian. Dogmom/Jayln briefly voted for BM and NanoS then placed that weird final vote on Adel right before the deadline. Guardian and I have the same voting pattern, while being adversarial most of the game. That implies a shared alignment. Notice my votes do not follow his, this could not be a pattern I made happen.

You say that your lynch is almost inevitable - if you think there is a better candidate - and I could possibly be convinced at this point - do so!

I'm digging for one. I have the advantage that I know my alignment, and I just read through the entire game building my graphic.

Your resignation that you will eventually be lynched and your earlier statement that there is a 50-50 chance that you are scum really does not sit well with me.

Every point that was raised against me yesterday I responded to with many many words. I've said my peace. As for your result from last night, i think I've covered that as much as is needed.

That being said, I would like to hear what tells you have found on Streeflo.

No interaction with other players, cocks his vote on Nano with a FoS, then hammers for the deadline. His vote was late and unoriginal. I hold his ability to write well against him as well- he did not generate any real arguments yesterday, and I think he is capable of it.

The Nanook/Jalyn thing makes sense to me, and I would like to hear more.

The graphic holds most of the information. The separation between the two is odd, Jalyn's late vote for me is odd, having a canceled vote on two dead townies is odd. The choices for who gets an FoS stand out to me as well. 3 townies and a scum buddy, or two townies and 2 scum buddies would seem about right. Note enough for me to vote on, but... I wasn't suspicious of Dogmom yesterday, but having the two confirmed townies makes it a little more clear.

I don't quite understand what you mean when you say you don't agree with my last point. You go on to say that you think the five I mentioned would be the only potential scum. Please explain.

The point I refered to was that my posts today would be useful even if I were scum... I don;t thinkn they would be.

I think Nanook, as scum, might have seen my breadcrumbs and initially thought that it would look pro-town to point them out; that it would be the obvious pro-town thing to do. Only after doing so he realized that it was actually a very bad thing for a townie to do. Basically, I can see him as thinking it was pro-town, doing it to look pro-town, and then realizing that it was very, very, anti-town.

The problem is I could see him making the same series of decisions if he were town. It isn't something that sways me either way.

[Adel]

I think Guardian is sane because I think there is only one cop, and highly doubt that with one cop he would be otherwise.

I think there are two cops because I know that I am town, and I think Guardian isn't scum. That would make Guardian paranoid or insane, and I don't think we would just have one cop who is non-sane.

[Adel]

The only other player that made a case against both BM and NanoS was Guardian. Dogmom/Jayln briefly voted for BM and NanoS then placed that weird final vote on Adel right before the deadline.

oops, MeMe did as well. Even worse, my vote usually did follow hers. At least that fits my theory that MeMe (cleared by a sane cop YB) and Guardian (insane cop) share a town alignment.

[Adel]

Your resignation that you will eventually be lynched and your earlier statement that there is a 50-50 chance that you are scum really does not sit well with me.

Every point that was raised against me yesterday I responded to with many many words. I've said my peace. As for your result from last night, i think I've covered that as much as is needed.

You completely ignored answering my suspicions here; you changed the subject.

The 50-50 split come from me trying to see the world through your eyes. If I were you I would only have ~50% confidence in my alignment, since there is a good chance that YB is also some kind of cop. Based upon my unpopularity yesterday, and your guilty investigation, if I were some other random townie I would probably have little trouble voting for Adel. I get it. There isn't much I can say that I haven't either have already said or would be useless to point out. I'm pretty much resigned to it. If I can prevent my own quicklynch and generate some good information for tomorrow, I'll fell like I lived up to my responsibility to the town.

That being said, I would like to hear what tells you have found on Streeflo.

No interaction with other players, cocks his vote on Nano with a FoS, then hammers for the deadline. His vote was late and unoriginal. I hold his ability to write well against him as well- he did not generate any real arguments yesterday, and I think he is capable of it.

Has he demonstrated such an ability? You seem to be grasping at straws. He had plenty of analysis on the other players; just not FOS's or votes that you can put in your graphic.

The marvelous thing about objective matrices like my graphic is that it cuts through chattery noise and bullshit. Streeflo never was convinced that someone was guilty enough to vote for until Nanos? It seems pretty clear to me that he choose to join a bandwagon to fit in, and he prepped it with his FOS. Nanook, Jayln and Streeflo would work as a scum pair for me, and YL's lack of activity seems a little alarming as well. I'm still harboring doubts about CO.

The Nanook/Jalyn thing makes sense to me, and I would like to hear more.

The graphic holds most of the information. The separation between the two is odd, Jalyn's late vote for me is odd, having a canceled vote on two dead townies is odd. The choices for who gets an FoS stand out to me as well. 3 townies and a scum buddy, or two townies and 2 scum buddies would seem about right. Note enough for me to vote on, but... I wasn't suspicious of Dogmom yesterday, but having the two confirmed townies makes it a little more clear.

I am not sure how much I trust the graphic as representing all interactions, but I semi-buy an interaction here, and see both as independently scummy

Please look through the pages and list any errors or omissions. If three mistakes are identified I'll draft a new one as an errata. If you think the graphic's structure or layout is biased I could post it in PNG format so anyone with Illustrator or Fireworks will be able to manipulate the image with the layers and vector objects preserved.

This fits right into you and MeMe both being scum. I am becoming increasingly convinced that you are the play.

So you think YB is a cop but is just insane, or do you think that YB is scum with MeMe and I? I find it hard to believe that a scummy YB would target his partner and lie about the result. Too many things could go wrong with that, they would never survive the endgame. So YB must be an insane cop or MeMe is innocent. With two cops it is a coin flip to determine which on is the sane one, if either are. I don't thin we would have two less than sane cops.* Ergo, MeMe and can not be scum together. I can see YB being scum and MeMe being innocent, and I think the actual case is that you are insane/paranoid and YB is sane.

*Actually... could we have two less than sane cops? Consider:
1. We know that we have 3 and only 3 scum, no SK.
2. There probably isn't a Mafia roleblocker.
3. We have a vig.

we could have:
1 godfather
2 goons
1 vig
2 insane cops (or 1 paranoid and 1 naive)
1 doc
5 townies

I think that would be balanced, and interesting. It does leave room for MeMe and I to be scum together, but then you have to consider the chances of both insane cops targeting two different scum. Remote.

[Adel]

Wait, what makes you so sure YB is a cop?

I know that I'm not guilty. That makes Guardian either scum (which I doubt, scum don't report false positives) or insane/paranoid. 1 insane/paranoid cop makes it more probable that the other cop claim was honest.

[Adel]

Has he demonstrated such an ability? You seem to be grasping at straws. He had plenty of analysis on the other players; just not FOS's or votes that you can put in your graphic.

I thought I was done for the night, but then I noticed that I really didn't answer this.

Yes, he has demonstrated that ability. Display posts in this thread by player, and choose "Streeflo" and take a gander. If anything, I was wrong about him not generating any real arguments, since that is a pretty subjective evaluation. I read though his posts and noticed that he is good at picking up on things, and pointing out what others missed, but he doesn't offer the kind of insightful analysis I gather he is capable of, judging by his verbiage and syntax.

[Adel]

Since we are all so confused, except for Guardian, how about another one of my great ideas:

The last player to post

"NOT IT!"

is clearly scum and should be lynched

immediately

Ready?

3.....

2....

1...

"NOT IT!"

[Adel]

no sense of humor with those two.

Have a good weekend everyone, hopefully you won't lynch me so I'll have a chance to continue this on Monday.

[Adel]

Back.

I see I didn't miss much. Guardian still has no sense of humor: he didn't notice my smirk.



Thanks for not lynching me. Would you like a glass of wine to celebrate? It is right there, in front of you.

[Adel]

http://javascript.internet.com/password ... ption.html

"aecimagbnihititia aioivonv"

455

[Adel]

Very nice.

Vote: ChaosOmega

for rolefishing.

Good call. I think it is odd the the only long, well researched post from CO is written to out the vig.

unvote:Streeflo vote:ChaosOmega

I am 0 fo 2 in identifying scum so far in this game, so I am having some confidence issues. Also, I would still like some help in figuring out who to kill tonight.

[Adel]

My list

Cleared until a later day: Guardian, YB, Meme, Adel,
Neutral: YL
Possible scum: CO, Jayln, Nanook, Streeflo

Nanook is now my second choice for lynch *cough*vigkill*cough*, after CO.

[Adel]

Guardian could be scum. Getting me lynched would reveal my alignment, placing him in the same position he is in now, the insane or paranoid cop. Is he? I don't see a compelling case.

I'd like for the rest of the town to take a closer look at Nanook, CO, Streeflo and Jayln. Not just the past couple of pages (I see some stuff there though) but over the course of the game. Which two do you think are scum? Can you see Guardian, YL, or MeMe being partners with any of them?

[Adel]

Im more sure that Adel is the Vig, but Any of us could say there not the Vig when theyre Adel's scumbuddies, So my thoughts on Adel right now are up and down... I dont see your point n Claiming Vig with Only 2(3?) votes on you though, Seemed rushed.

The deadline was creeping up, and we weren't making any progress.

[Adel]

Yeah Nanook, I killed the mayor. [quote=theopor_OCD in the second post of the game"]
This setup is mostly closed, however you receive one piece of information. As the limited flavour suggests, there are two factions in this game, the town and the mafia[/quote]
The mayor was killed by a bullet, Ecto was shot. BM was strangled. There are only two factions, the three people who looked guilty after we found the mayor's body and the rest are town- including the vig who kills by strangling.

What part of "two factions" leaves room for an SK? I do not thing you are dense enough to be honestly confused by there simple facts, so that leaves me suspecting that you are attempting to confuse our efforts to identify scum.

[Adel]

Ecto was shot. BM was strangled.

It's the other way around.

Huh, that makes no sense. I though the murder weapons would remain consistent- to the point where I read the death scene descriptions incorrectly several times.

My change of attitude was a matter of timing, when you attempted to ID me as vig my primary motivation was not being exposed. Streeflo's case against you later was pretty compelling. You and Streeflo share a number of tells that I identified earlier in this day, and the additional tell of role fishing put you ahead of him, and Nanook.

[Adel]

You were rolefishing, and you put quite a bit of time into doing it. You haven't turned your analytic skills towards identifying scum.

[Adel]

MeMe: I would like to see more of your case against Guardian, while there are still days to go before the deadline. I see something there, but I am not nearly convinced, but I am open to the idea.

I am not so sure about Streeflo's quick FOS following MeMe's vote on Guardian.
What convinced you so easily Streeflo? YL? What about MeMe's logic appeals to you?

My shortlist is CO, Nanook, Streeflo, and Jayln. My hnch is that there are only two scum on that list. But I am very very weary of my own ability to identify scum... out of my nearly 500 posts I have yet to have my vote on scum at the end of a day- not once so far in my mafia career.

Mod: can we get a votecount please?

[Adel]

You were rolefishing, and you put quite a bit of time into doing it. You haven't turned your analytic skills towards identifying scum.

And he still hasn't.

[Adel]

As I said before, I doubt that there would be two cops in a mini, sanity issues or no sanity issues. (Again, if I'm off in this assumption, let me know.)
No counter-claim pretty much confirms Adel as vig, making YB the cop.

vote: Gaurdian

I think you are off in this assumption, and I think that you are too good of a player, too careful of a reader, and too skilled a rhetorician to sincerely believe in such a reason for a vote.

FoS:Jalyn

[Adel]

My current hunch for the scum group:

CO+Nanook+Jalyn

I would like to see them die in that order.

I can see Nanook being scum independent of CO, and if that is the case I suspect Streeflo in CO's place.

[Adel]

If we wake up tomorrow and Nanook and CO are both dead scum, choosing between Streeflo and Jalyn would be a lovely choice to have to face.

[Adel]

:goodposting:

CO: why do you think that Nanook is innocent?

unvote

for fear of an early hammer before deadline. CO is still my fist choice, but if he keeps posts like his last coming that could easily change.

[Adel]

NanoS lurked as well.

[Adel]

One thing I didn't emphasize, but that I do find scummy, is how CO unvoted Adel to cause separation and to ensure the lynch, but didn't vote NanoS - he wanted someone (NanoS) to be lynched, but didn't want to be responsible for the lynch.

Or a no-lynch. Your description of how risk adverse his behavior was convinced me.

vote: ChaosOmega

[Adel]

unvote:ChaosOmega vote:Guardian

[Adel]

I don't know if changing my vote was the correct decision. The anticipation is killing me.

With 8 votes cast at least two scum are voting. My theory is that CO didn't get bussed by his scum mates because he is not scum. Guardian may not be scum either, but I was worried about two realistic possibilities:

1. YL is scum, and would drop the hammer on CO once he found the good excuse he was looking for, like a looming deadline.
2. Anyone else (besides me of course) who switched from one bandwagon to another is likely scum.

Nanook will be my NK. Nanook's name was in the encrypted breadcrumb Guardian left a couple of pages ago. Guardian as townie had Nanook as a prime suspect, and Guardian as scum would target a scumbuddy next. Either way Nanook will die tonight.

[Adel]

Adel, whats the number you used that mad Nanook appear in his encrypted text? and how did you discover it?

Cryptography used to be a hobby of mine.


The type of encryption he used is very weak if someone knows that an encrypted message is included. It is also much much weaker for short messages than long messages.

"aecimagbnihititia aioivonv" was my message "iamvignightchoicebm"
Notice how most of the letters are reused. If it were longer it would be stronger.
"aivohia tigbnvmaaenioiciti" is my message but with 42344235 as the number.

Guardian's message contains the letters for "Nanook". The odds of the letters being there without him spelling the name in his message are really slim, especially since his post must contain a name and I didn;t see anyother partial anagrams of players names. That he used capitalization makes it easier.

[Adel]

crap.
"fwr. orgNmrglNn bSge ghNofgrkyboiegf Ntaf geNNgtnNk"
also contains "Streeflo"

I take back what I said earlier... let me work on this a little longer. I'll post what I get, and I'll work quickly to beat Theo.

[Adel]

Nanook, I take it back. I'm still working on it

w. rgNmrgN bg gfgrybf Nf geNNgNk

is what is left after Streeflo Night and Nanook are taken out. The problem is that doesn't leave enough vowels for much else... So Streeflo and Nanook aren't both in there.

[Adel]

damnit... I butchered our doctor. My point totals were equal for YL and Nanook, so MeMe's earlier post that YL was who she expected to be scum with Guardian was the tiebreaker. I spent an unreal amount of time on the decision between Nanook and YL and I choose wrong. I suck at mafia. I've killed as many townies at the mafia has.

[Adel]

Vote:Streeflo

any objection to me knifing Nanook tonight?

[Adel]

ok lets talk. Jayln, I am really interested in your analysis on Nanook and ChaosOmega.

ChaosOmega: I am really interested in your analysis of Nanook and Jayln

Nanook: I am really interested in your analysis of Jayln and ChaosOmega.

Until then..

unvote: Streeflo

YB, I would like for you to join me in holding back your theories until all of our perspective scum have laid out a good case for who the other scum is.

[Adel]

Streeflo: do you have any last words?

[Adel]

Nanook: do you have any last words?

[Adel]

Open 23: Monks and Masons just ended, a game where Guardian replaced in as scum Night 1, and convinced the other mafia member to change their NK from Sir Tornado to me. Why would Guardian see me as that much of a threat? Remember my little theory that only NanoS bought on Day 1 where I proposed that nanook and guardian were scum together, Guardian breadcrumbed, and Nanook outed him so that they could have a little scum fight? I think that rattled Guardian, making him think I am a much better player than I actually am. Nanook as Godfather would make perfect sense! Guardian claiming cop outs the other cop, and if the other cop investigates Nanook then Nanook is pretty close to cleared.

[Adel]

to show off? I think he was sure of a CO lynch at that point. I wasn't able to crack it any farther than that, and it is possible, though unlikely, that the letters were in there by random chance.

hmmm... just letting my mind wonder... could Guardian+Nanook+YB be the scum team? I'm just considering what to do if Streeflo turns up townie.

Guardian+Streeflo+Jayln also makes some sense to me.

I am not 100% on Nanook being scum if Streeflo is also scum. Just 90%.

[Adel]

Wonderful! We have at least one more fakeclaim! Just when I thought this game was winding down.

[Adel]

YB -

Please do not respond to Streeflo's claim until everyone one else has!

[Adel]

Something to consider: Guardian's message

could have

contained the words:
Nanook and Streeflo and Night and fry. If those words were all included there is at least one more I haven't been able to crack.

I have about:
50% confidence that those words were included,
70% that Nanook and Streeflo were included,
98% confidence that one of Nanook or Streeflo were included.

[Adel]

Jayln? Nanook?

[Adel]

players left: Adel, Jalyn, Streeflo, nanook, YB, CO

2 are scum, so the score is 4:2

I think that 1 of Streeflo or YB are scum

lynch YB or Streeflo, result = scum, score = 4:1 mafia nk: 3:1 vig nk: 2:1 or 3:0
lynch Yb or Streeflo, result = town, score = 3:2, mafia nk: 2:2, vig nk: 1:2 or 2:1

so the possible results are 25% chance of town win after tonight, 25% chance of scum win after tonight, and 50% chance of us having two town and one scum after today.

I think it is critically importnat tat we not only identify the scum, but also identify who his or her partner is.

Since I am the only player confirmed, I am playing with my cards [

very close to my chest

.

I want today to last right up until the deadline, and I want any other roles to claim, right now.

Adel: vig
YB: cop
Nanook: townie
CO: townie
Streeflo: tracker

Are these correct?

Jalyn: what is your role?

I want all of you to present the best case you can generate for why a specific person is scum, and who his partner is. I want all of you to rank all of the other players in order of scumminess. I want all of you to present a whole lot of information.

I do not want to see any debate for right now. Consider this period to be a brainstorming session, where all ideas are presented without being challenged.

With a bunch of overlapping cases, I feel certain that I will be able to conclude who the scum is with a good degree of confidence.

If we lynch correctly today, and I kill correctly tonight, we win. If either our lynch or my nk are in err, then our chances for winning are not that great.

Three of you are town, two of you are scum. Lets hear what you have to say.

[Adel]

YB: if you didn't

know

that you were the cop, why would you think that Streeflo is lying and Nanook is his scumbuddy?

[Adel]

Streeflo can say the exact same thing with an equal amount of legitimacy. It doesn't help me and the other two townies make an informed and accurate decision. If you are town, please try a little harder to help us. We can't just take you at your word and hope for the best. That would be very ignorant play.

[Adel]

Streeflo: Why do you think YB was protesting

after

I dropped the hammer on Guardian? It was too late for me to switch my vote.

Guardian+YB+Nanook is the scum group you believe in, right? Will you vote for Nanook if I ask you to?

Jalyn: what scum group do you believe in?
CO: same question: who do you think are the two remaining scum?

[Adel]

vote: YogurtBandit

[Adel]

Last words?

[Adel]

Jalyn: yes, unless anyone has a last minute insight.

[Adel]

Nanook if you are town then you still have an interest in winning. If you are town than who is scum? CO or Jalyn?

[Adel]

Bah. Good luck!

[Adel]

I think I was more of a liability to the town than a benefit.

Day 3 went pretty badly. YB seemed to have so many liabilities, and Streeflo presented his case so cleanly that I didn't have too much doubt that YB was the correct choice.

I think CO made his choice on the last day for the right reasons. I probably would have made the same decision.

I really enjoyed this game, and playing with all of you.

[Adel]

hmm, much as i dislike the fact that you killed me in cold blood, you did save me the hassle of the futile defending myself the next day thing. lol
Good Win by the scum.

yeah, you got killed by a newbie vig. Of course I killed a townie. I honestly thought you were scum, and then like two weeks later I replaced into a 30 page game and was totally in over my head, but of course you were dead by then. Now I feel really silly for holding your limited posting against you as a scumtell.

Damn newbies.