Mini 455 - Mafia in Theoville - Game Over who won?

[Erotomachia]

Looks like I was the only player DogMom did not mention in her player-by-player analysis!

I'm not really sure who to vote for anymore. Adel and Guardian are going constantly back and forth...I think it may even be likely that they're both town and that the true mafia members are just lying low.

[Erotomachia]

I unvoted you (YogurtBandit) because I think it's certainly possible that there are two cops of varying sanities. And I don't feel like lynching a claimed cop so soon.

[Streeflo]

I noticed that YogurtBandit claimed cop, skimming through the posts. I'll go back and read through the backlog later.

I didn't understand the case on YogurtBandit in the first place before the cop claim, but I find it interesting that now we have two "possible" cops on the first day outed already.

Can someone restate the case on YogurtBandit

before

his cop claim please?

Also Adel, I don't like your idea very much either. It's not such a good idea to let the scum know exactly who the town nightactions are targeted at. If an idea hasn't been used in games before, there's usually a reason why.

[MeMe]

I'll

unvote: YogurtBandit

for the moment.

[YogurtBandit]

I do not know my sanity and never will apparently.

[Guardian]

Streeflo, I quickly summarized my thoughts about him in this post right after I confirmed my vote on him.

Adel, yeah, cut out the theories, cut out calling my logic OMGUSy, but after my reread in which I mostly disregarded your theories you did seem less scummy. Whether disregarding them is the right thing to do, I am not sure.
I am still baffled about what you are talking about with a mafia role blocker blocking a potentially non existent vig. I didn't include the roleblocker in my cop/doc analysis part of it because that was not relevant to the vig example... and because I thought we were giving the scum enough help with our discussion.

I am still milling over what to think about YogurtBandit. I am leaning that he is in fact another cop... Maybe it is just because I like the guy . I will continue to think it over before taking a definitive stance on the issue.

DogMom, you haven't posted, so maybe you would have already as soon as you get back, but I would definitely like you to answer Nanook's question, and not let it get lost in the clutter.

[Streeflo]

Confirm Vote:

YB for following me when he had no reason to AND for suggesting that we have both two docs + two cops AND for ignoring MeMe's question AND for making spammy posts that try to appear townlike.

One of your reasons for voting for him was suggesting because he suggested the two doc and two cop setup, which I admit was ludicrous. However, why later come up with this:

And now the fun starts... I thought there was a possibility that YB was going to claim cop back when he suggested that there are both two docs and two cops.

If you thought he was gonna claim cop, why would you vote for him?

[theopor_COD]

Votecount 4

Guardian 2 - YogurtBandit, Adel
YogurtBandit 2 - Guardian, ChaosOmega
NanookTheWolf 1 - Nanosauromo

Not voting everyone else. Still 7 to hang someone.

Deadline is some 10 days, 8 hours away.

[Adel]

Guardian: I'll take a step back. I'll concentrate on who else may be scum, keeping my vote on you, but at this point I don't have any other good (hah!) guesses on who may be scum. I need to find other good scum possibilities.

Everyone knows how to sort posts by player name, right? That is where the numbers come from.

YogurtBandit:
0- random vote: Nekka-Lucifer
1- points out that a random vote isn't good content
2- typo correction
3- no real content (NRC)
4- NRC
5- questions chaos-omega's vote on Nekka-Lucifer
6- accepts Streeflo's "random vote = good content" comment as a joke
7- gently proposes that CO's random #2 vote on Nek-Luc was a bandwagon, votes ChaosOmega
8- disagrees with Erotomachia, defends placing a #2 vote on CO
9- quotes own post # 7 to defend self for placing #2 vote on CO
10- agrees w/ guardian that voting w/o stating why is a scumtell, states that bandwagon + scumtell = vote to defentd own vote on CO
11- quotes post from guardian where guardian says that YB agreeing with him for "no reason" is fishy. YB points out that he pats Guard on the back more in other games. States that there just noise in the graphic Adel posted
12- asks for summary after not posting for 12 hours. NRC
13- tries to decipher Nekka-Lucifer's meaning in previous past
14- NRC
15- asks why Meme loves her vote on YB
16- proposes that there could be any combination of more than 1 cop or 1 doctor
17- NRC
18- NRC
19- Asks why I placed vote on CO
20- slightly defends Nanook against Nanosauromo
21- States that Guardian is scum false-claiming cop. places vote on Guardian
22- asks me to respond to articulate attacking post by Guardian.
23- claims cop. says that he thinks there are 2 cops. quotes wiki which states that multiple cops with different sanities is common. Asks doc to protect one of the claimed cops.
24- responds to guardian's analysis of likely night actions. YB states he will not investigate Guardian, and if unless there is two doc's he is likely to be nk'd, because if there is only one doc and the doc protect YB, YB will be lynched tomarrow.
25- asks Erotomachia why he unvoted YB. Responds to Meme stating that he thinks the Guardian is acting like a cop, but doubts that Guardian really is a cop because of the likelihood of there only being one cop.
26- responds to Meme, that keeping vote on Guardian is for pressure, and that he has PM mod regarding sanity.
27- states that he doesn't know if he is sane and never will.

Summery:
Votes NL -> CO -> Guardian... defends self often, defends Nanook once. has only attacked CO and Guardian. Claims cop as role. Not wishy-washy.

[Adel]

ChaosOmega
0- votes Nekka-Lucifer
1- replies that his vote for NL was random
2- 24hrs later says that he is back (NRC)
3- places #4 vote on YB for not making useful posts, and that YB tries to look town by posting often. Doesn't buy Guardian-Nanook scum pair.
4- corrects me by pointing out that his vote makes YB -3 to lynch

Summery:
Votes NL -> YB... doesn't post much, just a couple posts every 48 hours.

[NanookTheWolf]

So now there are two cops 'outed' .. How interesting? This should play out nicely. I definately think that if there is a doctor, or even two (Highly doubt though), that it should be up to the individual as to whom s/he protects .. Don't want to set the other up for an automatic night kill.

I truthfully don't know who to believe between the two, as I always find a cop claim early on when mafia to be pretty ballsy to begin with. I don't find "breadcrumbing" as some call it to be as much of a pro-town thought as I do that of scum .. Not saying that I think Guardian is scum, but I find YB's reaction to Guardian's claim to be more so town-like by voting for him quickly after Guardian's claim as I too would probably do the same thing.

It is possible that their insanities differentiate, and more then likely with there really being two cops in this game, more likely. Two sane cops in a 12 player game just a wee bit overpowering.

How exactly did the possibility of a mafia roleblocker come out? Was it Adel who posted this? I'd look back for myself normally, but I have a slight case of conjuctivitis (pink eye) and just got finished reading 1 1/2 pages and have more to read in other games. The point just crossed my mind as I was typing, sorry.

[Adel]

Dog_Mom
0- Explains that she is a day late to the party because of RL. States that a vote w/o giving reasons = scumtell. Votes Adel for that reason.
1- 24hrs later tries to decipher Nk's post.
2- Unvotes me, Fos's Nanook and Guardian, but does not give reasons.
3- Doesn't see breadcrumbs, agrees w/ YB that opening mod post indicates 3 mafia.
4- Asks Nanook why he outed Guardian
5- Says shy can sorta see why Nanook outed Guardian, says she wouldn't have. Doesn't explicitly state why she thinks Nanook outed G. Un-Fos's both. Doesn't see either as scum, but thinks both are playing poorly for outing each other as town... does player evals: YB doesn't post content, Meme posts meta-content, YagamiLight could be scum since he is posting enough not to be seen as a lurker but posts w/o content. CO+Nanosauromo need to post more. Adel made a scumtell by not posting reason for vote. NL doesn't make sense. Streetflo- NRC, concludes that YL could be scum who is playing well.
6- Clarifies that in 5 she meant that she doesn't see a Nanook-Guardian scumpair. Either could be scum. Says that YB needs to explain actions.

Summery:
Votes Adel -> unvotes... attacks me once, attacks no one else, but voices gentle suspicion of YL, Guardian, and Nanook. Not much content, nothing original added to thread.

[Guardian]

And now the fun starts... I thought there was a possibility that YB was going to claim cop back when he suggested that there are both two docs and two cops.

If you thought he was gonna claim cop, why would you vote for him?

Good question, I thought someone might bring it up. I had two reasons:
Firstly, I was not sure if he was going to claim it, or was actually just thinking about claiming it and testing it with the two cop two doc thing. I actually wanted to get a wagon on him, because in other games when he was wagoned he let his alignment slip, and if he claimed anything but cop I would have been almost sure that he was a mafia thinking about fake claiming cop but then deciding not to.
Secondly, even though he has claimed cop, I am not sure that I buy his cop claim.

To be honest, his was not the most convincing or direct claim I have ever seen, and like I said (and maybe this is a bad read on my part, as I have not had it tested yet) I always feel that someone is scummy if they say that they are completely willing to get lynched or killed for the good of the cause - especially if that person is a power role. I think town players should always say that they are a bad lynch, as it is, again in my opinion, almost always better for the town to give up on lynching a scummy townie in favor of trying to find scum.

Adel, keep the pbpa's coming. Fair warning, I may later go back and pick them for Adel scum tells, but as I said, I think the more townies post the more obvious it becomes that they are townie... And the more scum post, the more likely it becomes that they will slip up. So yeah, at first glance they seem like very decent pbpa, and definitely keep them going! One thing I would request of you, is that after putting all of that effort into doing a pbpa, that you put a bit more detailed summary for any of the players who you find particularly scummy.

[Adel]

Erotomachia
0- Random votes CO
1- first player to ask me what my less than random reason for voting guardian is
2- simple question challenging YB's CO vote
3- second simple question challenging YB's Co vote.
4- States VB's CO vote is a little strange
5- States that both guardian and nanook can't both be scum, unvotes CO, votes YB. doesn't give reason in post for YB vote.
6- Votes "C" on my poll, and wasn't very familiar with breadcrumbing, will post more later.
7- 30 min later unvotes YB
8- points out that Dog_mom did not mention Erotomachia in player evals. points out that Adel and guardian could be two townies attacking each other while scum lay low.
9- Explains YB unvote as being to to real possibility of two cops w/ different sanities. Doesn't want to lynch a claimed cop.

Summery:
Votes CO -> YB -> unvote. questions directed at YB do not strike me as good questions. YB seems a little fishy since YBs answers were decent and nothing else changed. No insights or analysis offered despite decent number of posts.

[Guardian]

Adel, I am really impressed, whatever your alignment is. You, dare I say it, contribute as much as if not more than I . We could be Mr. and Mrs. Activity xD. Please do consider my idea of having a longer Summary for scummier players. And sorry, but pet peeve: S-u-m-m-

a

-r-y.

[MeMe]

If I had to choose between the two....Hey! I

don't

have to choose between the two!

vote: Nekka-Lucifer

[NanookTheWolf]

One FINALDIPEEDAPEEDOSEY one... (lol) I don't see any hidden Docs

... And this makes you a sad Puss n' Boots? If so, why?

If the doctor did this, that would just be total anarchy on the game. Plus, if I had noticed such a thing, I don't think I would announce that I saw it (Un-like the cop bit anyway).

Meant to add that earlier .. Meme reminded me with her vote.

[NanookTheWolf]

That you didn't mention the possibility of there being a mafia roleblocker, the biggest hole in my plan, suggests that:
1. you are mafia and you know that there is a roleblocker
or
2. you are mafia and since there isn't a roleblocker you didn't think of the possibility.

You are wise enough in the ways of mafia to know of that possibility. I was actually worried that another player would point out that hole in my plan before you had a chance to respond.
<snip>
I am so happy with my vote now.

A mafia roleblocker would definitely hamper us directing the actions of the potential doc and cops, but how would a mafia roleblocker block a potential vig whose theoretical identity is unknown? Maybe it is you who knows something we don't?

Found it .. I think. My point isn't really relevant in this case like I thought it would be. I'm off to wipe the gunk out of my eyes (Don't intend to gross anyone out or anything, ) .. and then bed. If I have time in the AM to post before class then I will, otherwise see ya'll tomorrow PM.

Peace Out.

P.s. - I apologize for the double post.

[Streeflo]

To be honest, his was not the most convincing or direct claim I have ever seen, and like I said (and maybe this is a bad read on my part, as I have not had it tested yet) I always feel that someone is scummy if they say that they are completely willing to get lynched or killed for the good of the cause - especially if that person is a power role. I think town players should always say that they are a bad lynch, as it is, again in my opinion, almost always better for the town to give up on lynching a scummy townie in favor of trying to find scum.

I get somewhat suspicious of someone says they are willing to lynch for the good of the town too, but I don't think it's necessarily a scumtell. Scumplayers say they are a bad lynch too.
I think YogurtBandit's reactions are more genuine, but you seem to be more experienced and your breadcrumbing supports that.

Which brings me into MeMe's latest post, which I like a lot.

If I had to choose between the two....Hey! I

don't

have to choose between the two!

vote: Nekka-Lucifer

Of course, up comes the inevitable question of why?

[MeMe]

*sigh*

[NanookTheWolf]

To be honest, his was not the most convincing or direct claim I have ever seen, and like I said (and maybe this is a bad read on my part, as I have not had it tested yet) I always feel that someone is scummy if they say that they are completely willing to get lynched or killed for the good of the cause - especially if that person is a power role. I think town players should always say that they are a bad lynch, as it is, again in my opinion, almost always better for the town to give up on lynching a scummy townie in favor of trying to find scum.

I get somewhat suspicious of someone says they are willing to lynch for the good of the town too, but I don't think it's necessarily a scumtell. Scumplayers say they are a bad lynch too.
I think YogurtBandit's reactions are more genuine, but you seem to be more experienced and your breadcrumbing supports that.

Which brings me into MeMe's latest post, which I like a lot.

If I had to choose between the two....Hey! I

don't

have to choose between the two!

vote: Nekka-Lucifer

Of course, up comes the inevitable question of why?

*sigh*

I know I said I was going to bed, but I just couldn't resist this one ..

Streeflo, I believe you've taken Meme's

joke

seriously .. If I'm right, I think she meant she doesn't have to choose between Nekka and Lucifer, she can just vote for Nekka-Lucifer. As for why she did, well your on your own to find that one out.

Meme truly is too damn funny IMO.

Really, Truly, and Honestly going to bed now ... G'night.

[Guardian]

MeMe, you made me lol for real with both of the last two posts .

[Streeflo]

Well, I got the first part, but I thought the second part was for real. > >.

Whoops. (first part made me laugh too)

[Adel]

Guardian
0- at least two smilies too many, agrees with YB in challenging Streetflo's change in vote, votes Streetflo
1- NRC
2- advice to CO, first letter of first three sentences spell out C-O-P
3- questions my reasons for voting him, defends Streetflo vote to Nanook
4- defends Streetflo vote to Streetflo. states that voting w/o reason is ok, but not giving reasons when asked is not ok.
5- clarification as part of conversation of pg 1 "random" votes
6- says meme isn't giving reasons for vote, nor posting content, is a lurker. points out that adel could be waiting until post 100 to invent scum tells on Guardian. YB is fishy for patting Guardian on back. forgives streetflo for pg 1 "blip" and unvotes him. lists adel, streetflo, yb and meme as possible scum. votes YB for CO push and associating with guardian.
7- responds to nanook outing him as cop. concludes nanook must be town as scum would wait until night.
8- lists new evidence confirming his YB vote (neglect of question from meme) and spamming to appear town. fingers (ha!) adel for posting convoluted theory, not giving reason for vote, supposing that there may be a godfather, and another reason I still don't get. fingers meme for no content, not explaining votes, asking NK about post restriction. fingers Dogmom for no content, and for fingering guardian and nanook after copclaim. finger first guy, Nekka-Lucifer for typing in another language that only looks like english. accuses nanook of bad play. pressures YB to respond to meme's question asking for proof that posting w/o listing reasons is a scumtell.
9- states that he hasn't seen a game where scum breadcrumbed, but is a possibility. nanosauromo is not a lyncher.
10- lists evidence that may make someone else think that nanosauromo is a lyncher.
11- NRC
12- adel's theory sucks. posting sucky thoery = scumtel votes A for poll, read sbout breadcrumbing in another game.
13- allows that meme's technique is valid. admits that he shouldn't post so much when he is a power role. admits that he was wrong to call out meme for asking if NK had a post restriction. admits that plenty of nanook looks scummy, but thinks nanook is town due to outing.
14- says he didn't know adel had posted reasons for guardian vote when he made his #8 post. calls adel's vote on CO an easy vote on a lurker. admits that godfather is a possible role, but adel mentioning the possibility could be because she is scum and wants to appear like she is helping out. points out that the only way adel will be satisfied of his claim is if he investigates a scum night 1 and town lynch proves investigation. states that if he had a second vote it would be on adel.
15- dismisses adel's vig-vote tactic. says posting crappy tactic = scumtell.
16- states that since other games he is in have good activity he can't be a participation suppressor... isn't gunning for adel.
17- YB might be scum for making cop claim. sanity is unknown. YB vote stays. pressures dogmom to answer nanook's question.
18- adel's theories are scummy. YB's claim makes adel's theories more scummy. presents evidence to support why my theories are scummy scumtells that doesn't make any sense to me so read it for yourself. says presenting second choice for lynching is good for town, but calling it vig kill target is bad for town.
19- says adel - theories = townie behavior. points out that townies can get each other lynched. adel's theories make her scummy. states that using the posting of crap evidence as a scumtell is not making a moutian out of a mole hill. accuses adel of quoting a line of his without the proper context.
20- NRC

to be continued... this is really exhausting to try to do objectively.

[Adel]

I come back to Guardian later.

MeMe
0- random{?} vote guardian
1- NRC
2- asks YB to give evidence for why voting without saying anything is a scum tell
3-schools guardian on mafia theory. town doesn't need to worry about appearing town-like. unvotes guardian, votes YB "...as I find a blind echo of an unsupported idea more disturbing than the initial statement."
4- NRC
5- says there is no Sk in setup, loves having vote on YB. Uses less words to say it than I just did.
6- asks Nekka if he has a posting restriction. give YB funny non-reasons for voting YB. asks YB again to give evidence for why voting without saying anything is a scum tell
7- more theory for guardian. more schooling, and more schooling. at least guardian is good enough to warrant a slap from MeMe.
8- Asks guardian if he has pm'd mod re: sanity, and why his vote is still on YB after YB cop-claimed.
9- an hour later, unvotes YB
10- votes Nekka-Lucifer, no reason stated
11- NRC



Summ

e

ry (thanks)
Votes Guardian -> YB -> Nekka... attacks no one, defends no one, an engima with great signal:noise. Her meta is the face of the Goddess. All hail Eris!