Mini 456: Ultimatum Mafia - Game Over!


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Post Post #18 (isolation #0) » Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:12 am

Post by Stewie »

Mr Stoofer wrote:I agree with The Fonz/mneme. We need something to talk about, and nominations for Challenger is a good idea. So I propose modifying my suggestion:

Stoofer strategy v2.0


(a)
During the Day, we nominate players to be the Challenger.

(b)
If a majority (i.e. 7+ players) nominate one player ("the Nominee"), he must become the Challenger.

(c)
If the Nominee does not make a Challenge, then we let the Mod enforce the rule below; and everyone will vote to evict the Nominee.
If no one has volunteered to be the Challenger, then the person with the least recent post at deadline will be named the Challenger.
(d)
If nobody gets a majority, we let the Mod enforce the same rule.

(e)
Unless
(c)
applies, the Challenger will challenge the person who has made the fewest
substantive
contributions.

This strategy will encourage everyone to post regularly. And it also avoids a jumpy Townie challenging another jumpy Townie. I think that this strategy will give us a decent, information filled Day 1 to allow us to really hunt Scum on days 2+.

Thoughts?
I think that this, and other similar strategies, are fine for the first couple of days when we don't have much information and this sort of thing could help get the game going. Later on we will have a much clearer image of who is suspicious to the town, and who isn't, so anyone could challange one of those people. My main concern is that there is too much to talk about later on the game, and I don't think anyone will get a majority. Then the mod will have to apply the rule, and I don't think that would be desirable later on the game.

For now though,
nom: spinwizard
for that last post.
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Post Post #27 (isolation #1) » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:13 am

Post by Stewie »

I also nominated SpinWizard, so you'd be tied with him.

I'd be nice if those three people posted something... although to be fair, it hasn't been that long since day started, so I'm more critical of useless posts than lurkers, at the moment.
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Post Post #30 (isolation #2) » Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:47 pm

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VanDamien wrote:I'm pretty suspicious of the whole nominate plan, and this is why. If we're nominating the challenger, especially this early, we're effectively giving either scum team a pass to challenge.
Can you elaborate on that? What do you mean when you say a "free pass"?
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Post Post #49 (isolation #3) » Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:36 am

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DeanWinchester wrote: If the group of six can figure out who is in the group, it's game over. We can use our superior numbers and the, over looked, rule that you can only challenge once untill everyone has gone atleast once.

For the group of six to win we need to figure out who is (or most likely) in this group and abuse our numbers.

We can set this up so every vote is between us and one of the groups of three. With our numbers we can win every vote. All we have to do is survive one dead lock vote and of course never make the mistake of challeging one of our own.
I like this idea. Obviously, you are in the group of six, because when you refer to this group you say "us" and when you refer to the groups of three you say "them." I will come out and say that I am also in the group of six. The other four guys should do the same, and the game is ours.






Seriously though,
nom: deanwinchester
. That's an idealistic plan, but we have no info in day one, and therefore no way to know who else is town (I fail to see why we can't say town and scum - ratios don't matter, it's just terminology). I agree that they are half the players, but it's two different groups.

My other nom is already on spinwizard, stoofer.
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Post Post #61 (isolation #4) » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:41 am

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Yosarian2 wrote:
Sparks wrote:
mod: please modkill mneme, he just admitted that he's been conferring with his scumbuddies outside the thread during day
What?

Mneme was speculating that the scum might be allowed to talk during the day because there are no nights. How can you go from that to assuming that scum can't talk and assuming that mneme is scum and assuming that mneme is scum who broke the rules?
Maybe he didn't assume scum can't talk. Maybe he knows. I don't know where he gets that mneme is scum, or that mneme broke the rules, however. It's pretty clear that mneme implied that it was sparks and company the ones talking outside the thread.

Care to explain this?

Furthermore, care to explain why you refuse to nominate but still vote? What's the purpose of that?

How is a system which enable us to know who everyone thinks is scummy so we can use this information later on the game not helpful later in the game? The whole point of the system is that we use it to get through the first couple of days
in a productive manner
. What do you suggest we do instead? A lot of criticism but 0 ideas as to how else we might proceed. Also, explain how the nomination system can be used as a scum plot.
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Post Post #64 (isolation #5) » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:51 pm

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Sparks wrote:go read lo2 i have no time for this nonsense we are on a strict deadline

we should challenge before we have two so we can get some more juicy debates between two people

i shouldnt challenge because im 99% going to be challeneed
We have four whole days until the deadline. Please explain what we asked you to explain; surely it can't take you more than an hour.
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Post Post #69 (isolation #6) » Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:56 pm

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A quick prologue to my post: proofread your post. Seriously, "hwyh"? if that's an abbreviation for something, stop using it; this isn't AIM. If it's not, then you should probably read your post before you post it, and correct it as necessary. In short, make sure your post is readable before you post it. Also, next time make sure you make those four posts into one.

I'll break your argument in parts so that it's easier to respond to. I'll just add numbers.
Sparks wrote:stoofer or stewie def.

1.
stoofer is distractin the town with his plans so he can plan scum strategy haead.
2.
i mean why the hell should we follow some plan of lettin mod do the deciding when X happens or let a person pick when Y happens or vote when Z happens?
3.
it is mainly to let stoofer avoid being hcallenged, we should do whatever one fits us best.
4.
i mean of course people should be listening to town but ido not see hwyh we need to be forced into a plan muchl ike some of the people in lo2 didnt see why they needed to be forced into a specific amount of people to be lynched.
5.
this plan is also distracting from actual scum hunting and lastly, a lot of it is letting mod decide the challenger,
6
i think we should challenge B4 deadline especially aerly so we have the maximum amount of time to decide btween 2 peppz

7.
stewie has been pretty hoppy incosistent and all over the place abnd
8
asking pointless questions
1. You keep saying this, but how so? How is this distractin
g
the town? How does this, as scum, help him set himself up for later?
2. What? Stop being so freaking lazy. In other words, don't use X, Y, and Z, because nobody knows what you are talking about.
3. How does this help Stoofer avoid being challanged? You can nominate him, and if enough people do so he will be in the challange. This is mafia, and the more people get input on who is lynched, the better.
4. We need a plan. Most of us like Stoofer's. We pointed out potential problems, and fixed them as we went along. If you have a better plan, we are all ears. You will, however, need to explain why Stoofer's is a bad plan, and why yours is better. "Why should the town... blah blah blah, X, Y, Z, and 2πr²" is not enough. Explain why not.
5. How so? Also, you seem to have the misconception that this lets the mod decide who is the challanger. This is only if we can't decide in time, and that is no different from a situation in which we do not use the nomination system and we don't have a challanger by the deadline.
6. I think 3-4 days is more than enough time to choose between two people if we go at this pace. It is more important to choose the two people out of the 12 than it is to choose the one out of the two.
7. Show some inconsistencies then. Don't just say something, prove it.
8. You know, nobody in this game was born yesterday. Just because you call my questions pointless does not give you a free pass on them. You are free, of course, to quote my questions and explain how they are pointless.
Sparks wrote:
9
vandamien is town because hes not scared to catch flak for his actions

10
deanwinchester is town simply beacuse of the way everyone jusmped on him and how theres mass scum on his tail

11
meneme is dumb, but dumb =/= scum
9. What? How does that follow?
10. How do you know it was scum "on his tail"?
11. Ironically, that's the dumbest thing I've heard... today.
Sparks wrote:yos is probabl town cuz he played like he did in lo2 were he was town
I'm not going to read the game, and I'm not going to take your word for it. Although Yosarian didn't do anything scummy, that doesn't mean he's probably town, particularly since he only posted a few times.
Sparks wrote:and i think im going to be challenged cuaz of my playstyle mossly.
No, you are going to be challanged because your logic makes no sense, when you are asked to explain it you resort to red herrings, and you are against a strategy which will give us the most information about everyone, while you promote nothing in its place.
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Post Post #72 (isolation #7) » Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:06 am

Post by Stewie »

That's the gist of it, yes. However, we each have two nominations (which must go to different people). First person to 7 is the challenger, second person is the challengee. If the challenger refuses to challenge (or challenges the wrong person), then someone else does it and we lynch him.

The whole point is that we don't change the system too much from a regular game, such that the town as a whole is still in control of who is lynched. There are many other benefits to the system, such as gathering information about people's suspicions (same as when we vote in a regular game) which is useful later on in the game, and preventing people (particularly townies) to go on their own and challenge some without the town's consent.
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Post Post #76 (isolation #8) » Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:37 am

Post by Stewie »

Agreed on both. I was just outlining what we currently had in place.


I almost forgot:
unnom: both; nom: sparks


Not as if he is going to actually do it, but if he doesn't someone else can challenge him.
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Post Post #78 (isolation #9) » Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:52 am

Post by Stewie »

I agree that we can't let him get away with it, but I feel that sparks is the best way to go today. If he doesn't post anything of considerable content by then, he'll be deeper in the hole, which should make for an interesting discussion.
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Post Post #80 (isolation #10) » Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:01 am

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Yosarian, is that not active lurking? I asked many meaningful questions, and once again he's passing them off as useless in an attempt to not answer them.
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Post Post #86 (isolation #11) » Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:52 am

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Yosarian2 wrote:
Stewie wrote:Yosarian, is that not active lurking? I asked many meaningful questions, and once again he's passing them off as useless in an attempt to not answer them.
Stewie: Partly, I'm just trying to get Dyllen to particiapte more; he's cleary around, as he posted yesteday and the day before, but he's also clearly not saying much. Honestly, he looks like scum trying to fly under the radar to me, with just saying "i agree" and a reasonless bandwagon vote, wheras I honestly don't know WHAT to think about Sparks at the moment, I can't see town OR scum wanting to act the way he's acted so far.

The "he seems to have inside knowlege about if the scum can talk during the day" argument is a strike against Sparks, though, and he'd probably be my second chocie right now.
Fair enough, but I'll stick to my choice.
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Post Post #95 (isolation #12) » Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:51 pm

Post by Stewie »

Another prologue: stop calling people names. There was no reason to call mneme a dumbass or me stupid. We don't take kindly to that in here. And again, spell check.
see, asking HOW is shit disctractin the town, does this need to be explained how? LOOK AT THE FREAKIN definition. by discussin some gayass plan instead of tryin to hunt scum it's DISTRACTIN.
The plan is itself created to hunt scum, so it's not distracting. It focuses on hunting scum.
and then next asking specific s on how tsoofy coul manipulate the plan. there r a billion ways, he can just not do sum iof the things he said that wuld get you nominated (such as be active). this was discussed @ the beginnin of lo2 too about how scum culd just be active and not get nomianted by those dumb plans
First, saying that being active is a plot that can be used to set yourself up later is incoherent. Sure, it may get you through the day, but if you actually behaved scummy then you'll actually pay later. The rule is simply in place to encourage people to be active, which will give us a lot more to talk about later. Furthermore, being active doesn't mean that you won't get challenged/be the one who has to challenge. You can place your nominations on an active person, and if enough people support you, that person will be one of our two choices for a lynch later in the day.
im sorry i didnt rehash one of stoofer's three confusing long plans, this obviusly means im lazy
Answer the question. As you said, they are long plans, so you need to specify what you mean with X, Y, and Z.
yes i can nomiante him at any time but that would not be following his plan, im working under the assumption of his plan, he can just manipualte it to not get nominated.
How? It's very simple, a nomination in this game is something we use instead of a vote, because we don't have votes. Use a nomination as you would a vote, and if enough people agree with you, then there's no way that he'll escape the challenge.
there si no plan for most games of mafia seeing as so much is unknown.
This isn't most games of mafia. This is significantly different.
what if someone doesnt have that much time to post compared to someone else?
Then they shouldn't have signed up for this game.
and once agian, that part of my argument was working under the assumption that we let hte mod chlalnege in case we dont get 7 nominations or whatever which is part of stoofer's plan and another dumb part
Again, even with that assumption, that's no different from a situation in which we do not use Stoofers plan, the consequences are the same regardless, and your point moot.
no i think the 1 is more important considering the other one escapes unharmed especially since if we let mod piock we might not evne get who we want
If we let the mod pick the first time, the other 10 go unharmed, and we might not get who we want on the final two.
you are doing the eaxct thing that you are scrutizining people for doing. you jumpde on spinwizard on the first damn page for a short post. basically all your posts are not adding anything significant. i'm pretty sure everybody here can tellw hen a post is not substantial. we do not need you to point it out. all your stances and comments have been very nonhelpful, your comments on stoofer's plan were very general, then you make a useless post saying you're critical of useless posts, you ask for elaboration, then you basically restate deanwinchester's post and then nominate him giving no reason, and then this little squabble with me. basically, NOTHING you have said gives us any help in determining your alignment, whne a player does this, i assume they're doing it purposely as to not take any responsibilitiy. basically, you are doign a craftier and more sneaky version of the thing you are trying to nail players for
On spinwizard: if nobody says anything, that kind of thing goes unnoticed.
On my comments on Stoofer's plan: I recall two or three people thought they were helpful (granted, one of them was stoofer, but nobody spoke out against it until you just now).
this was pointless because it didn't have a point.
It did. The point was that you were not answering my questions, and saying they were stupid to get out of doing so.
how does it fucking not follow? scum like to law low especially in games like this and not catch attention. vandamien right off the bat did something that would draw attention, tha's pretty bold and townie
Let's assume you are right on this one (which you are not). Then why are you against choosing the smallest contributor? Surely by your logic they are scum ("scum like to lay low," right?)

Also, you are wrong, because when someone proposes something that hurts the town or speaks against something that helps the town, that's gets you some attention, and this attention certainly does not mean that the person is town.
speed of wagon, the barning around it, etc.
Right... does not follow, but you'll just say "howw dose not fucking follwo" so I'll give you a pass on this one... unless you actually care to explain how it does follow, in which case go right ahead.
i like how you show your smartness by using ironically wrong in the same sentence you try to discredit someone.
Dictionary.com wrote:an outcome of events contrary to what was, or might have been, expected.
I'd expect someone calling someone else dumb not to make a dumb statement in doing so.
and then stewie noms me giving no reason at all. proving my point even more.
Remember that long post of mine you replied to? Yeah, that one had plenty of reasons. There are also reasons prior to, and after that post.
and the last inconssitency i would like to point out is how yos isn't giving any speifics either yet stewie isn't on him. yeah they dont "disagree" for the most part in position but it's still odd how stewie's attention is focused.
I understand the reasons why yosarian is doing what he's doing. When I didn't, I asked and I got a satisfactory answer very quickly (in 13 minutes) whereas you first stalled, calling my questions stupid, and then you answered them, unsatisfactorily, and only when under pressure from other players.
1) so? why cant scumhunting apply here
That's why we need a plan. The normal means of scumhunting are simply not available to us in this game. We need to come up with a new way to catch scum.
2) what?
Stoofer's plan brings the mechanics of this game much closer to the mechanics of most games, thus making it easier to catch scum.
3) looking for scumtells, association, etc. etc. this cannot be a serious question
Scumtells and association are things that most of the time go hand in hand with voting. We don't have that in this game.
arrotcake, thank you for dealing with this yahoo for a while. You've been very patient.
Apparently, I'm the most patient of them all. I wouldn't have seen this post or spark's most recent post if I hadn't hit preview first. That should give you an idea of how long I've been writting this post (I think it's been over an hour now)

Sorry for long ass post. :oops:
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Post Post #98 (isolation #13) » Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:43 pm

Post by Stewie »

Should I even spend another hour answering all that, when he clearly writes his posts in five minutes? If anyone -
anyone*
- doesn't think he's full of shit, raise your hand and I'll actually put the effort, but it's 12:30 AM so I'm going to bed.

PS: you seem to be confused about this game's mechanics. There are no votes until after the challenge is set. Can't you notice the lack of votecounts? Why, oh why, did you have to sign up for a really complicated game for your first game in MS and not a newbie? (last one is rhetorical; you can answer if you want but I couldn't care less).

PPS: Funny how you post who you are fine challenging/being challenged by/challenging each other, which is exactly what the nominations do. For the record, I'm fine with you challenging or being challenged by anyone. Oh, and MeMe is not in this game.

*anyone, of course, means anyone playing this game and who is not sparks.
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Post Post #103 (isolation #14) » Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:16 pm

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mneme wrote: Your objectiion to "nominating" is totally a vocabulary question -- I chose "nominate" because of the game's theme and because this game -has- a formal voting process -- you know, the thing after the challenge. Therefore the "voting" process earlier has to be something different. Therefore I decided to call it "nominating" rather than "voting."
Not to mention that in this game, when voting actually occurs it is to save the person you are voting from a lynch, not to lynch them. Therefore, a separate term is helpful.
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Post Post #111 (isolation #15) » Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:01 am

Post by Stewie »

Sparks wrote: OMG UR SPELLIN IS NOT THAT GOOD, well sry if english isnt my first language but i dont even have a spell checker and my internet access is limited to short periods around the day.
Don't play the "English is not my first language" card. I already implied that verbs in the present tense have an
ing
ending, not an
in
ending. Then there's places when it seems as if you switched letter around, and can easily be fixed by proofreading yourself (post before this one you said "acse" instead of "case." Then there's the MSN abbreviations (you used "omg" and "sry" on the same post). Don't play the "limited access" card either, because the mod said that you'd need to be active to play this game, and that includes putting time into your posts rather than spewing something out in 5 minutes.


Deadline for me is 10pm and it's 12pm (minimum deadline, at least) so I'll challenge this guy if nobody else made a challenge by then, unless someone objects to that.
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Post Post #127 (isolation #16) » Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:49 pm

Post by Stewie »

Sparks wrote:oh and i proofreaded that post twice stewie, i hope youre happy.
It's not perfect, but it's much better than every other post you made so far, so that's good.

I'm not voting until I hear a lot more from dylan. I really don't know what his thoughts are, and this would be a great opportunity to get them out. A good idea would be for you to answer one of spark's posts, in particular one which was not answered already. Then comment on the previous bandwagons, etc.

And don't hold back just because it's early, we need to get this game moving quickly.
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Post Post #142 (isolation #17) » Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:34 am

Post by Stewie »

Challenging a lurker first thing is sooo scummy it's untrue.
Agreed, but that's not what he said.
Lynching a player because they are annoying and completly disregarding any argument for why they are town is bad.
You seem to misunderstand our argument. The reason I want him gone is because he is not only annoying, but illogical, puts little time into reading my posts and making his, and distracted the town from going after other people (such as yourself, so I can see why you'd want to save him) by making a long non-argument against a plan that is not only helpful in gathering information, but also flexible if mistakes are found in it. All these things together - including the annoyance factor, as you mentioned - are not only unhelpful, but actually hurt the town's chances. Therefore, getting rid of him is a benefit to the town, regardless of his alignment (which I think is scum, so it doesn't matter that much anyways).

That said, I really want to hear more from dylan. Saying "oh, sorry for lurking, I'll start posting more content the next day" doesn't cut it. Prove you are willing to post more content by doing so now. Read the thread, and post your opinions.
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Post Post #182 (isolation #18) » Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:45 am

Post by Stewie »

Well, it looks as if this is going to be a close one. I'm inclined to vote for sparks (reasons aforementioned by mneme) but I'll wait and see if dylan has something else to say.
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Post Post #198 (isolation #19) » Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:03 am

Post by Stewie »

Oh no, he's using the Chewbacca defence.
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Post Post #202 (isolation #20) » Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:54 am

Post by Stewie »

Carrotcake wrote:Mod, I hate to do this, but as much as I would love to play this game,my schedule has taken some turns for the worst. I ask to be replaced as soon as possible. Goodbye everybody and thanks for the fun.
Can you vote so that you are not modkilled, and can therefore be replaced next round?
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Post Post #209 (isolation #21) » Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:32 am

Post by Stewie »

Well, I'm not entirely sure, but there isn't much time left so it's best for me to vote now.

vote: dylan41985
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Post Post #211 (isolation #22) » Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:35 am

Post by Stewie »

If you keep it up, you'll get lynched tomorrow if not today.
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Post Post #221 (isolation #23) » Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:26 pm

Post by Stewie »

Mod
, could you delete most of those? Merge them into one if you think that they are worth keeping for whatever reason. Keep 215 since it had actual content, but the rest are just spamming, and one of them even breaks the tables.
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Post Post #226 (isolation #24) » Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:39 am

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I agree with that. The rest of us have been pretty active.
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Post Post #258 (isolation #25) » Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:35 am

Post by Stewie »

The Fonz wrote:That doesn't entirely make sense. The two scumgroups' winning condition states that the group needs to be alive (ie, at least one surviving member) and equal in number to all others surviving. If we agree to keep him alive until the first Con is found, that gives us three, rather than two, mislynches before we're at LyLo, in the scenario where our first two don't hit scum.
Can you explain that again, I'm having trouble understanding it. I think that the best thing at the moment would be lynching him. He might even be conservative mafia, but that doesn't matter since he's scum for sure.
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Post Post #263 (isolation #26) » Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:09 am

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The Fonz wrote:Sure. The Conservative scumgroup needs to get to the position where they've got half the remaining players. If we lynch Van now, that leaves them with three of nine, requiring three mislynches in a row to win. If we save him until the first con is caught, that means we'd have to mislynch four times in a row to lose. (Unless he is a con pulling a gambit, but even then, that doesn't change the number of lynches- we'd still need to hit con scum in the next three). It's like leaving an SK alive to prevent mafia gaining the majority in a normal game.
Ah, makes sense now.

Right now I'll
nom: dylan
but I might change my mind if his activity goes up and dean and spinwizard don't start participating.
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Post Post #270 (isolation #27) » Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:47 pm

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Yosarian2 wrote:Hmmm. I've got to say, I don't really trust VanDamien here. I'm not sure why the last member of the liberal mafia would claim, as he'd then have basically a 0% chance of winning, while it might make sense for a conservative mafia member to claim liberal so we don't lynch him for a few days.
I thought about that too, but it seems like a really risky thing for conservative mafia to do, since he's so easy to lynch now that he claimed. The only reason I can come up for doing this is a theoretical win. By doing this, he can't actually win the game, but he can help us win, which you can consider winning. It's not as if we keep a record for each player, so that might be enough incentive for him.
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Post Post #273 (isolation #28) » Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:11 pm

Post by Stewie »

Act like one. For example, earlier on we asked you to tell us who was suspicious and who wasn't. You did this, but never really explained it.
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Post Post #279 (isolation #29) » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:14 am

Post by Stewie »

I think that we should only lynch BM if we really think he's scum. The only reason to keep VD around is numbers, but getting rid of a townie will also reduce out numbers. Right now, the only reason I have to think BM is scum is that challenge he just made.
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Post Post #283 (isolation #30) » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:37 am

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1. How is the system dubious in intent or quality?
2. We didn't want to lynch VD. We wanted to go after other scum.
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Post Post #285 (isolation #31) » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:58 am

Post by Stewie »

1. The town is mostly town. Even with the scum in consideration, they are trying to get rid of each other, so their input is also helpful.
2. It is a valid point, but that doesn't mean that we wanted him lynched today, just that if we didn't find scum today or tomorrow we might want to lynch him. You are free to quote someone who actually wanted to lynch him today (and did not reconsider later) but I don't think you'll find anyone. You basically did this because you wanted to, and ignored what everone else wanted to do. Sure, there are scum out there, but other than VD there's only three.
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Post Post #310 (isolation #32) » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:27 pm

Post by Stewie »

Battle Mage, to mneme wrote: dont patronise me when your own comments are so dubious...
How so?
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Post Post #365 (isolation #33) » Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:28 am

Post by Stewie »

I'll also
vote: vandamien
not so much to make an example of BM, but because BM went against what everyone in the town wanted while saying that's what he thought the town wanted. He keeps insisting that we need to get rid of the confirmed scum despite the fact that the numbers help us anyways. Also, in his defence he does not answer the questions addressed to him appropriately.
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Post Post #373 (isolation #34) » Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:06 pm

Post by Stewie »

Albert B. Rampage wrote:
I'd prefer you exposed them now, actually, before we see BM's alignment.

If you don't mind...
I do mind, mind you. I'm not going to distract the town when we are under deadline. I will challenge you tomorrow, and then I'll kill you.
Well, now the voting is essentially done, so I'd also like to hear your reasons before BM's alignment is revealed. I suggest yos and dean give him time to answer.
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Post Post #376 (isolation #35) » Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:08 pm

Post by Stewie »

1. Don't challenge. Nominate.
2. I think it'd be better to get this information
before[/b] BM's alignment is revealed. That way you can't change it once his alignment is revealed.
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Post Post #384 (isolation #36) » Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:18 am

Post by Stewie »

Mr Stoofer wrote:In fact, I believe everyone has voted now, so we can start Day 3 as soon as a Mod gets here.
Why wait?

nom: dylan
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Post Post #393 (isolation #37) » Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:42 am

Post by Stewie »

dylan41985 wrote:If you're going to nominate me, I suggest you revisit the thread and do some research first. Find out who I'm affiliated with, who could be in the mafia with me, etc.

You'll find that there are other players who have more suspicious voting patterns and have more connections with other players than I do.

I plan to survive another challenge.

but in the meantime, I REALLY hope Battle Mage is conservative so that you can see I'm pro-town.
It's not just voting patterns. You've been lurking day one, promised to contribute the next day when you were challenged, and did not do so.

Also, BM coming up conservative doesn't really mean anything in terms of you being town/scum. Scum can easily vote for their scum buddies to distance themselves.
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Post Post #418 (isolation #38) » Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:22 am

Post by Stewie »

Albert B. Rampage wrote:I want to gather momentum. I don't think its possible to change my case to "fit the facts", and actually don't understand much of this comment at all.
If you are scum and you had an argument against mneme which assumed BM was the other side's scum, then when you find out that he's not scum you can change your argument to fit the new information. This assumes that VD is lying, but it can also work if you are a townie, since you could also alter your logic to fit whether BM was scum or not, which of course you wouldn't be doing on purpose, but it hurts the town nontheless. Plus, there was no reason not to make your argument (there still isn't) so I can't see why you are still stalling.
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Post Post #435 (isolation #39) » Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:20 am

Post by Stewie »

Yeah, why challenge first and then explain? Explain now.
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Post Post #462 (isolation #40) » Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:28 am

Post by Stewie »

Guardian wrote:
Randomized Deadline to Challenge: 6/5/25 1:39 P.M.
Deadline for dylan41985 to declare Challengee: 6/7/25 1:39 A.M.
Uh, what? 6/7/25? 6/5/25? That makes no sense to me. Can anybody help me?

Also, if dylan does show up before whenever he needs to challenge, I too think that he should challenge whomever he finds scummy.
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Post Post #464 (isolation #41) » Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:21 pm

Post by Stewie »

Ah, I think I get it now. He's using y/m/dd. I got confused because I'm used to dd/mm/yyyy and particularly years being shown as yy or yyyy.
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Post Post #469 (isolation #42) » Tue Jun 26, 2007 4:18 pm

Post by Stewie »

dylan41985 wrote: I think Stewie has played a pretty quiet game...being very careful not to show his alliances with many people.
Yeah,
I
played quietly.

I have not shown alliances with anyone because I do not have any.
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Post Post #484 (isolation #43) » Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:02 am

Post by Stewie »

The Fonz wrote: That said, it might not be a bad idea for Stewie to go back and provide a summary of his reasoning behind each nom/vote. We want as much useful info out of this challenge as possible.
I already posted reasons for my noms/votes in the posts in which I made them, or one prior. If there's a specific vote/nom in which you are not sure what my reasons were, point it out and I'll explain it.
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Post Post #487 (isolation #44) » Wed Jun 27, 2007 4:02 pm

Post by Stewie »

I'd have to do a full reread to find something in particular, but off the top of my head Dean and Albert are possible scum. Dean due to his "it's not mafia, it's a group of three" comment he made earlier in the game and a general vibe I got, and Albert for the way SpinWizard was posting, and him taking too long to post his case against mneme when there was no good reason not to. It's pretty weak though. I think that the debate with sparks about the nom system and BM going against what the town wanted both got people voting against them regardless of their alignment. They seemed scummy as hell, so even scum partners would have gone against them. In the case of BM, I think it's possible that the scum might be a bit more likely to vote to save him, but frankly it's an assumption I'm not willing to make. Dylan is also very scummy, which made everyone go against him (there doesn't seem to be anyone even thinking of voting to save him) so it's hard to make any connections to other people. For the same reasons, if he does turn up to be town it wouldn't really change who I suspect.
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Post Post #497 (isolation #45) » Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:12 pm

Post by Stewie »

Sweep!

Just had to post that. I'm going to bed and I'll post something else tomorrow or when I get time (which is probably tomorrow).
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Post Post #498 (isolation #46) » Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:00 am

Post by Stewie »

Ok, should we lynch VanDamien today, or do you guys think that we should let him live a bit longer?
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Post Post #502 (isolation #47) » Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:57 pm

Post by Stewie »

Albert B. Rampage wrote:4-3-1..?

It all depends on how much you trust VD's ability to catch scum and his motivation to help the town.
I'd say it's 0. I don't think he wants to hurt the town, since he has no chance of winning, but he doesn't really have any reasons to help.
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Post Post #531 (isolation #48) » Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:13 am

Post by Stewie »

Yosarian2, emphasis mine wrote: The town wanted Dylan to challange or be challanged, but he thought it was better to challange Van Damien. And again,
I'm not sure how you can catagoraclly declare that anti-town without knowing what Van Damien's alignment was.
I'm not sure I understand this point. We didn't know (and still don't know) VanDamien's alignment, but neither did BattleMage. The fact that VanDamien could be conservative scum does not change the fact that we did not have that information at the moment, and not having that information the best thing to do was to let him live for the moment.
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Post Post #536 (isolation #49) » Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:09 pm

Post by Stewie »

Yosarian2 wrote:
Stewie wrote: I'm not sure I understand this point. We didn't know (and still don't know) VanDamien's alignment, but neither did BattleMage. The fact that VanDamien could be conservative scum does not change the fact that we did not have that information at the moment, and not having that information the best thing to do was to let him live for the moment.
Well, BM went against the opinion of the town because, he said, he though Van Damien was likely to be a conservative scum. I was just saying that I'm not sure you can call his challange an "anti-town" action when we still don't know if BM was right or not; without knowing that, I'm not sure you can catagorally say that his challanging Van Damien rather then, say, Dylan, is an "anti-town" action. After all, even in bad idea mafia, if you ignore what everyone else says and suceed in hitting a scum, you can't really call that an anti-town action, right?
Yes, but he didn't know he was right either. If he had some sort of outside information which lead him to believe that VD was conservative. Let me try to put it in another way: if I am a policeman and I see a young guy walking around and think "this guy might be a criminal" and arrest him, were my actions correct if he actually turned out to be scum?

My point is that you have to judge the pro-townness of an action by the information known at the moment, not the information which gets revealed after.
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Post Post #570 (isolation #50) » Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:11 pm

Post by Stewie »

I don't agree with most of that, but I do think that the "x attacking y, therefore they can't both be scum" argument is kinda crappy (I'm sure it's wrong, as its conclusion is me being scum, which I know I am not). I now await for mneme's response to Albert's post.
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Post Post #581 (isolation #51) » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:05 am

Post by Stewie »

vote: mneme


I really don't like this vote, because it comes down to me
feeling
that Albert is more likely scum rather than thinking; mostly because thinking gives out a tie, but with the deadline and all I guess I better vote.
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Post Post #587 (isolation #52) » Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:36 pm

Post by Stewie »

I'm wondering why yos decided to vote to lynch mneme. I know mneme didn't get back in time to respond to Albert's posts, but were they really that compelling?

This situation kinda sucks because we basically need the whole town and VD to back us up. ATM, the only person I'm fairly sure is town is The Fonz. I completely agree with his Albert-Stoofer theory, and I think that the last scum after that is either Yos or Dean; due to yesterday's turn of events, most likely yos. Having said that, I think we should go after stoofer first. The only reason we are pairing him with albert is because of something he said, so it's only fair to go after him first.

nom: stoofer
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Post Post #603 (isolation #53) » Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:45 pm

Post by Stewie »

That's cool with me, but consider that stoofer isn't back for another 5 days (you may still challenge him, just know he's away, and that he'll probably get modkilled anyways).
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Post Post #616 (isolation #54) » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:24 pm

Post by Stewie »

vote: the fonz


I just can't see him being scum, and with Albert's defence I now have almost no doubt that they are both scum.
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Post Post #626 (isolation #55) » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:17 am

Post by Stewie »

Goddamit. The Fonz had me fooled. It was a good play to go after stoofer in your part, since he isn't there and albert defending him all the time made him scummier, since I believed fonz was town.
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Post Post #630 (isolation #56) » Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:51 am

Post by Stewie »

I'll just say the two things that screwed me over:

1. the whole sparks thing confused the shit out of me, then there was the BM thing and then dylan. I didn't feel that we gained any valuable information on any of those lynches.
2. The mneme lynch really screwed with my scum-meter. I thought it should have been a sweep, as dylan's challenge on me was, and my immediate reaction was to think that Albert and everone who voted to save him was scum. The two people who were doing it backwards were the two people who had the primary, so while it was an easy choice to make it was also the wrong choice.
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Post Post #689 (isolation #57) » Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:52 pm

Post by Stewie »

Battle Mage wrote:i agree with your idea in theory, but in practice, had i said that, i'd inevitably either be challenged by somebody who thought VD was a bad play, or worse still, somebody else would jump in before me, and VD would be given another day of survival.
Giving VD extra days of survival is what we wanted. The town agreed, unanimously, that letting him live was a good play until we got two conservative scum. We knew he was scum, and eventually he was going to die. But this game was a game of numbers. The conservative scum needed to have a number equal to the rest of the town, including liberal scum. By keeping him alive, we basically had one more lynch. We knew he was scum, but we were using him for numbers... it was the wrong play to lynch scum, at least that one scum. It's not about morals or you going against the status quo, it was about you making a play which benefited noone but the conservative scum. When you play in a way which benefits the conservative scum, it implies that you are conservative scum playing in a way that benefits you.
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Post Post #702 (isolation #58) » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:01 am

Post by Stewie »

Battle Mage wrote: @Stewie-again, you miss the possibility that VD
was
Conservative-scum, in which case the town would have been even more screwed.
It was a very small possibility, and even if so we did not intend to lynch all the conservative scum before lynching VD. Therefore, if VD was indeed conservative scum all we would have to do lynch the other two conservative scum first, then lynch VD thinking he would come up liberal. If he came up conservative we got the same result: eliminated a scum group when the other was at minimum force. In short, it was a really small possibility and it didn't make a difference in what the best strategy was for the town anyways.

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