Mini 455 - Mafia in Theoville - Game Over who won?

[YagamiLight]

Still looks like noise, but someone else might notice something.

[YagamiLight]

You'll see what I was trying to collect votes for in a couple of hours.

Oh really, and you cant tell us now?

fos:Adel

I think the graphic was the reason.

[Adel]

huh. I thought I just showed you.

[Adel]

[Streeflo]

Ah hell, not Battle Mage. > >

[Erotomachia]

huh. I thought I just showed you.

Perhaps I'm slow...I don't quite get it. Is it that Nekka-Lucifer and YagamiLight have never voted? And interestingly enough, no one has ever voted for Streetflo.

Although I just noticed that there are some omissions. For example, I'm pretty sure that MeMe voted for Nekka-Lucifer at one point.

[Erotomachia]

Isn't there a feature for viewing a single player's posts within the game? If so, could anyone tell me what it is?

[NanookTheWolf]

Isn't there a feature for viewing a single player's posts within the game? If so, could anyone tell me what it is?

While reading the thread if you go to the bottom of the page there are three scroll options .. Choose the player that you wish to view and then press submit.

[Adel]

huh. I thought I just showed you.

Perhaps I'm slow...I don't quite get it. Is it that Nekka-Lucifer and YagamiLight have never voted? And interestingly enough, no one has ever voted for Streetflo.

Although I just noticed that there are some omissions. For example, I'm pretty sure that MeMe voted for Nekka-Lucifer at one point.

I was talking to YogurtBandit not YL when I said "I though I just showed you."

You are totally correct about MeMe having voted for NL, I am not sure how I missed that. Thanks for catching it. If there is more than one other error I'll posted a corrected graphic.

[MeMe]

Do you mind saying why? not once did you ever vote Nanos before unless I missed something. I would understand just unvoting Nekka/BM since it seems your vote on him was a pressure vote.

Apparently, I

did

mind saying why or I'd have done so, yes? Yagami -- unless you're completely ignoring my (and Nano's) posts, you shouldn't have any problem figuring out the reason for my vote change AND why I chose not to spell it out. That FOS is ridiculous.

But, I'll repeat what I said when I got "whyed" for my vote on N-L (which you seem to understand

now

but, apparently, completely confused you before): why not let the votee take care of himself? Why does a second vote on a player concern you so much that you need to dissect it before the votee even

registers

it?

[YagamiLight]

But, I'll repeat what I said when I got "whyed" for my vote on N-L (which you seem to understand

now

but, apparently, completely confused you before): why not let the votee take care of himself? Why does a second vote on a player concern you so much that you need to dissect it before the votee even

registers

it?

I just took the N-L thing as Nanook put it...

I believe you've taken Meme's joke seriously .. If I'm right, I think she meant she doesn't have to choose between Nekka and Lucifer, she can just vote for Nekka-Lucifer. As for why she did, well your on your own to find that one out.

Obviously, by your post, I missed something, probably for both this and the N-L thing. So, I think I'll give our whole game a good once over.

[Battle Mage]

@Adel, there is no point people voting unless they have some suspicions. making them commit to a vote is a protownish request, but such action could lead to wagonning, and a quick-lynch.

Hence the caution to stop when someone is at -3 or -2. Or do you think scum would drop the last two votes to hammer a townie? How can people

not

have suspicions at this point? I look at my notes and I don't have nearly enough information on a number of people. Having more votes to look at may help me separate signal from noise.

Someone credited you with the "logic=scumtell" argument. Was that slander?

probably. alot of people bitch about me, but its just coz they're jealous.

[DogMom]

OK, well, after a good nights' sleep, and liberal application of decongestants, I'm back, rereading the whole thread and looking to see who's had scummy behavior!

First person I noticed...

Me.

Gadzooks, my posts are reading like the Poster Child for "ALWAYS Pack Your Brain Wherever You Go". Misunderstanding perfectly obvious points, juxtaposing stuff that doesn't even go together, posting stuff that says something entirely DIFFERENT from what I was thinking when I posted it...geez. I'm not offering any excuses, but I do have a reason: the aforementioned allergies. I've been playing like a brain-dead artichoke. No wonder everybody and their keyboard has a FOS on me. Sorry guys.

Next up: Nanosauromo: Dude, you gonna post anything? We're 13 pages into the thread, and you've posted

eight times

. I understand not wanting to add to the noise ratio in here, but really.
Your eight posts consist of a random vote for Nanook, saying you're happy with your vote because you found his vote change to agree with Guardian to be "scummy", saying Streeflo wasn't acting scummy, saying you found Nanook to be the scummiest player "so far", calling Nanook out on his "Cop Roleclaim" post, answering Adel's poll (and saying your vote's still on Nanook), calling Adel out on her statement to YagamiLight, and saying she's rushing the day.
In your second-to-last post, you say

Sorry about not posting often. I check the thread constantly, but most of the time have nothing significant to contribute.

Really? Nothing to contribute? Nothing whatsoever? How about an opinion about

anyone

in the thread - especially anyone except Nanook, since we've established you say he's scummy.

Adel's said some

weird

things, but then again I've gamed with her before and she can be...um...yeah, weird. And kinda pushy. So those don't

necessarily

count against her as scumtells for me, because I know she does them, even as town.
Not real happy with the "I've got reasons and I'm not gonna tell you, neener neener neener", though. I understand, yes, so far they've been harmless, but...well...
Not seeing any seriously scummy stuff from her. Some that others have noticed and commented on, but I regarded those as "moderately", not seriously scummy. And for now I think she's explained them well enough, so I'll just keep them in the "for future consideration if necessary" file.
Erotomachia hasn't really posted a whole bunch, but then again his signal:noise ratio is pretty high, IMO. When he has posted it's mostly been to actually give opinions on the game, other people, etc.

Hmm...DogMom's reply to Guardian seems like a bit of an overreaction to me. But perhaps it's her posting style.

Um. Yeah, it is sorta my style, but it also was a bit of an overreaction. I'm claiming Allergies and StupidBrain for that one.
He also expressed the thought that sometimes there is a need for mediocrity. I found this to be an interesting thought. I, too, think it's likely that most (if not all) of the prolific posters are town, which gives scum the perfect cover to lie low. If

everyone

is talking so much, it allows scum to say, "hey, got nothing really to add, that's why I'm not saying anything."
And...hey, looky. That's just what Nano's doing.
I really don't like that he's checking the thread,

constantly,

according to him, and yet has nothing to say.

Vote: Nanosauromo

[DogMom]

More stuff:
Guardian: You've done some stuff that I was thinking was scummy, but once you were outed as breadcrumbing "cop", a lot of it made sense. Much of it could easily be construed as "power role trying to hide it & trying to get some good investigation targets at the same time". Plus, a lot of it was going after Adel's posts that I didn't really see as scummy (because, as I said before, I've played with her before and I knew she just sorta plays like that), but now in retrospect I can see why you were going after her. I also don't like that you were trying really hard to put words in my mouth, but I can see where you got that interpretation of my posts, and Adel's already addressed how well the whole "what they REALLY meant" works, so that, too, is getting filed in the "for future consideration if necessary" bin.

Nanook: Yeah, well, I think I've discussed you enough, even with AllergyBrane. I still think you're town, don't like the outing, but hey, what's done is done, let's move on.

FTR: I'm inclined to think Guardian's roleclaim is accurate, because he didn't come out and just

say

Hey, I'm the cop, and that Nanook really is a townie who made a mistake. Everyone makes 'em...I oughta know.

MeMe: Good gameplay, very high signal-to-noise ratio. Isn't prone to making long wordy posts (like some people I could mention... ) but still gets her points across. Honestly, she's coming across VERY town to me.

Nekka-Lucifer / BattleMage: I honestly have no idea. I really couldn't get that much of a read on N-L, because I couldn't really read his posts. BattleMage...well, he hasn't really said much either. Also could be scum trying to lie low, though, so until he posts more I'll hold off doing even a FoS on him.

IGMEOY

, though.

Streeflo pretty much went after Nanook (after the random stage) for the cop-reveal. Is neutral on Guardian's roleclaim, says he'll be more confident after tomorrow's investigation results.
Some discussion about roleclaims, and decides that Nanook could be town. Doesn't see a case against YogurtBandit, requests a restating of peoples' case against him BEFORE his roleclaim. Doesn't like the statement of Adel's to YagamiLight of "act scummy or I'll think you're scum". Getting pretty townie vibes from him, but the ongoing suspicion of our claimed cops isn't sitting quite right with me. I don't know why, though, so I'll chalk it up to "AllergyBrane" at this point, but keep it in mind.

YagamiLight: Hm. Said Nanook was probably town right after the cop-reveal, because Nanook as scum would've kept it to himself and just NKed the cop if he were scum. Says we can't say he's scummy just from this. Hm. Could be scum with Nanook, though, and defending his scumbuddy. But, I've already said I think Nanook is town, for largely the same reasons, so I'm inclined to think YL is thinking the same way.
Says vig should be able to tell from posts who the town thinks vig should go after at night. Thinks Adel is very town for putting out these suggestions and making people think. Interesting.
Posted a scumlist...and says that the cop-reveal could have been done deliberately to make Nanook seem less scummy BECAUSE scum could've just PMed his scumbuddies and they could've NKed the cop. It's true, they could have. I'm not fond of the ever-recursive WIFOM arguments, because they really don't resolve. I think he dismisses it, though.
FoSes MeMe...and is going to go back and look over the whole thread again.

[Adel]

Not real happy with the "I've got reasons and I'm not gonna tell you, neener neener neener", though. I understand, yes, so far they've been harmless, but...well...

I'm actually starting to enjoy that as a tactic. The reactions it draws are interesting, and possibly informative. I starting to become sensitive to the difference between the scummy things that are sometimes said and the clumsy or imprecise things that can be twisted into sounding scummy.

I also don't like how some people seem to think this needs to be a game about social conformity. "The nail that sticks out gets nailed down."

Dogmom: what is your take on ChaosOmega?

[DogMom]

YogurtBandit gets his own post because I wanted to hit SUBMIT before my DSL got taken out by weather.

YB: random voting, followed by several posts of fluff. "Doesn't like to take chances" and doesn't like random voting, so he votes ChaosOmega for...um...voting for Nekka-Lucifer after YB did, which could've been the start of a bandwagon. O....kay....

Says voting without saying anything is a scumtell, so he voted CO for voting N-L without saying anything.
Pops in to ask for a summary of the game. I don't like that, to tell you the truth. I like it when people read the game and draw their

own

conclusions. Honestly, if you're TOWN, how do you know who you can trust to give you a good, balanced,

reasonable

summary of the game? On the other paw, if you're scum, you know who you can trust to give you a summary that should help YOUR side.
Gives us every possible permutation of townie-distribution.

Next up is his very soft cop-claim, saying that he absolutely does NOT believe Guardian is the cop, and votes Guardian.
Later on he says he didn't want to claim with that post, but he guesses he did. (Yeah, even

I

, ArtichokeHead AllergyBrain, saw the cop-claim in that post.) Doesn't know his sanity, and posts quite a bit of game theory about cops, investigations, etc.
Says he's not going to investigate Guardian, even though he finds him scummy. He's believing that Guardian's behavior is cop but that Guardian might not be. Huh. Interesting.
Doesn't know his sanity, would like to see "answers to questions". Would like ChaosOmega to do a PBPA, would like to know what CO thinks are "fluff" posts.
Says CO has one post that's useful, after CO posts his list of "YB fluff"

I dunno. He's posted a lot, but a lot of it

is

noise, not really signal. Much like my posts, I suspect...

anyway, I think some of his stuff was scummy, and I'm not sure I entirely believe his cop claim, but this again is going into a "holding pattern", pending further posts from him OR an Investigation Result.

[Guardian]

When this happens to me I actually get really frustrated with it... But ChaosOmega's just going along with me and possibly trying to "make a friend" is kind of suspicious. He first says that he believes I am cop, then votes for Adel who I have been suspicious of all game. However, he has decent reasons for being suspicious of me, a healthy level of doubt about his sureness, and logic behind his vote on Adel that does make sense.

ChaosOmega

, I'd like to hear your thoughts on both DogMom and YB.

YB has been throwing a really wide net, and is the only one who has voted YL in this game according to Adel's graphic. I don't recall what context it was in, but if that happened non-randomly it is kind of suspicious for me. Also, you've got to be suspicious of the "other cop" in a mini normal... If there are in fact two cops, this has interesting consequences, imo, about the game setup. This game really deserves a re-read, but I only want to do one before deadline (deadline is less than a week now, I think, or near to it, fyi), so that will come later.

YB

, if you are now willing to believe that there are in fact two cops, why did you also claim so soon?

I was thinking about Nanook outing me, and I can think of some reasons he would do it as scum, and it disturbs me that I didn't think of them sooner. He is now actually much less surely town in my eyes. And no, before anyone asks, I don't care to disclose them at this point.

DogMom... you bet you've acted scummy. And I didn't particularly get a good vibe from you in your response to my suspicion of you. It felt something along the lines of "well, you can think that I'm scummy if you want, but ya know, whatever."
I don't really like the vote on NanoS either... My revelations about Nanook make me think NanoS could have been legitimately suspicious of both of me and Nanook, and NanoS could have good reasons for the case on Adel.

DogMom

, what exactly has NanoS done that is scummy besides lurking and voting for your scum partner(s)?

NanoS

, please articulate/resummarize your case against Adel and why you think she is scummy.

It is interesting to me that BM came up with the same theory Adel did about me and Nanook. I am OK with lynching Nanook if he does/has done other scummy things besides outing me. As I said, I did some thinking and my initial logic about how he must be town is not as shatterproof as I thought. BM, I think it is a twist of my reaction totally to say that I did not get angry with Nanook for outing me. However, being angry at someone does not mean you should finger them as scum.

BM

, what do you think about Adel?

I feel

I

need to address Adel. This whole game she has been giving off mixed (some

very

scummy) vibes to me, and I am still itching to vote her. I am trying to do as I said and keep open minded about she and I both being (at least earlier) extremely wordy town, but something inside me just isn't buying it. I will give it a few more days, but don't be suprised if my vote ends up back on Adel before the days is over. I've felt that she was a little fishy from the start. That being said, there are some other players near the top of my suspicions list.


Considering all this, I am not particularly happy with my vote on ChaosOmega anymore, but I see no reason to remove it at this point before I get more of a read on him.

[YogurtBandit]

I claimed because there was a bandwagon on me.

[DogMom]

Not real happy with the "I've got reasons and I'm not gonna tell you, neener neener neener", though. I understand, yes, so far they've been harmless, but...well...

I'm actually starting to enjoy that as a tactic. The reactions it draws are interesting, and possibly informative. I starting to become sensitive to the difference between the scummy things that are sometimes said and the clumsy or imprecise things that can be twisted into sounding scummy.

I also don't like how some people seem to think this needs to be a game about social conformity. "The nail that sticks out gets nailed down."

Dogmom: what is your take on ChaosOmega?

Hm. Interesting. That's a good point - but it's still annoying.

ChaosOmega? I missed him? Dangit! Seems like I'm doomed to always miss someone. (See, Erotomachia, nothing personal...)

Well, golly. ChaosOmega.
Random vote, then a one-word post to say it was random.
Then posts to say he was here, and he'd post again after he read everything.
YogurtBandit was suspicious to him, says YB is trying to look town by posting a lot, and says not many of YB's posts have been useful.
Not sure what to make of Guardian-Nanook, and then votes YB.

Doesn't like Adel's theory that anywhere from 1-3 scum are probably among the lower-content posters. Expands on this a little bit.

Posts 4 scenarios possible for the cop-roleclaims and alignment of Guardian and YogurtBandit.

FINALLY

, some content. Likes either "Both town or Guardian-cop / YB-scum". (Not sure WHY, by the way - the aforementioned "fluff posts" maybe?) Votes Adel, for the "Act scummy or I'll think you're scummy" post, plus for saying she can understand the case against her.

Man, for someone who's really willing to throw around accusations of "fluffposting", he does a lot of it. That's pretty hypocritical: of the NINE posts he's made, I'd say that only ONE of them were all that significant in game-content.
Fluffposting, by his own words, can be a scumtell. Accusing someone else of doing exactly what you're guilty of can ALSO be a scumtell.

FoS: ChaosOmega

[Guardian]

I figured you would say that, but you were at lynch -3 . I didn't perceive that you were close to being lynched, nor did anyone ask for a claim.

[DogMom]

DogMom... you bet you've acted scummy. And I didn't particularly get a good vibe from you in your response to my suspicion of you. It felt something along the lines of "well, you can think that I'm scummy if you want, but ya know, whatever."

Because I've already addressed your points. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but me repeating the same thing over and over and over again isn't really going to make a difference. I know what I

meant

, it's unfortunately not what I actually

said

, because what I said left it far more open to things I hadn't intended, and nothing I say is going to change either of those.
I can keep saying that "I didn't mean that, this is what I meant" and you can keep saying "yeah, but that's what you said and I don't believe that's what you meant", so my reply to you was basically to say fine, let's take it as given that you don't like what I said, and you found it scummy, and I know what I meant (which wasn't what I said) and move on to something else.

I don't really like the vote on NanoS either... My revelations about Nanook make me think NanoS could have been legitimately suspicious of both of me and Nanook, and NanoS could have good reasons for the case on Adel.

DogMom

, what exactly has NanoS done that is scummy besides lurking

and voting for your scum partner(s)?

That's an awfully loaded question. I've

said

what he's done that I think is scummy, and now you're saying "what do you think is scummy (except for all the stuff you've already said was scummy?") THAT was pretty scummy of YOU, dontcha think?
So, howsabout I turn it around on you: what about ME do you find scummy, EXCEPT for everything you've already said was scummy?

I quite honestly don't care if he votes Adel. I thought her comment about "act scummy or I'll think you're scum" was the perfect Catch-22, and quite scummy as well.
I said I thought he was being scummy

for lurking

. For saying he's CONSTANTLY reading and updating the thread, and yet has nothing to say? He's doing a GREAT job of flying under the radar, and I'm calling him out on it.

[YogurtBandit]

I figured you would say that, but you were at lynch -3 . I didn't perceive that you were close to being lynched, nor did anyone ask for a claim.

Yes, but I felt you were going overboard with your cop claim.

[Guardian]

DogMom, on point one, I am more than willing to move on to something else. Say, let's move on to point two!

On point two, I

definitely

was asking a loaded question. And you gave me just the type of answer I thought you might give. What's great is your overreaction.

I don't really like the vote on NanoS either... My revelations about Nanook make me think NanoS could have been legitimately suspicious of both of me and Nanook, and NanoS could have good reasons for the case on Adel.

DogMom

,

what exactly has NanoS done that is scummy besides lurking

and voting for your scum partner(s)?

That's an awfully loaded question. I've

said

what he's done that I think is scummy, and now you're saying "

what do you think is scummy (except for all the stuff you've already said was scummy?

") THAT was pretty scummy of YOU, dontcha think?
So, howsabout I turn it around on you: what about ME do you find scummy, EXCEPT for everything you've already said was scummy?

I quite honestly don't care if he votes Adel.

I thought her comment about "act scummy or I'll think you're scum" was the perfect Catch-22, and quite scummy as well.

I said I thought he was being scummy

for lurking

. For saying he's CONSTANTLY reading and updating the thread, and yet has nothing to say? He's doing a GREAT job of flying under the radar, and I'm calling him out on it.

So, you basically confirm that the only reason you find him scummy is for lurking. You don't really care about any of his actions, you are just trying to look useful by calling out a lurker. You say as much in that post. You, in fact, have no reason other than him not posting as much as everyone else to think he is scummy.

You

definitely

are squirming, even though I am the only one being actively suspicious of you. Why is that? Also, when you crossed out that NanoS had voted for your scum partners, what did you mean by that? Has he not yet voted for your scum partners?

In response to you asking me the same question: Nothing; at this point, everything I've said that I thought was scummy about you is what I think is scummy about you.

[Guardian]

I figured you would say that, but you were at lynch -3 . I didn't perceive that you were close to being lynched, nor did anyone ask for a claim.

Yes, but I felt you were going overboard with your cop claim.

OK, now we're getting somewhere. What do you mean by this? Can you give examples? Do you still feel the same way? Why or why not?

[Adel]

Nanook: Would you be willing to weigh in on all of this? We haven't heard much from you other than the cop stuff.