Mini 455 - Mafia in Theoville - Game Over who won?

[YagamiLight]

Where is WIFOM in Aristotle's

Organon

? Did you have some advanced coursework that presented WIFOM as a topic? No, you read about it on a wiki, or saw it used as a counter argument in a game.

Anyway, what I did is an example of deductive reasoning:

1. Good scum

may

try to stay hidden by playing as moderately as possible, and not dropping any scum tells. (Major premise)
2. YL is playing as moderately as possible, and is not dropping any scum tells. (Minor premise)
3. Therefore YL

may

be scum.

If you want to attack my argument, attack either the major or the minor premise. Discarding my argument as being "too townie" or "WIFOM" is sloppy thinking.

And, to be fair, I asked YL to start taking risks, to stop being so careful and moderate in his posts. That way he would be more likely to make more mistakes. If he is scum, my assumption is that his mistakes would be greater. Either way, I wanted him to take more actions for later analysis.

Well, it seems to me that townie wouldn't want to drop any scum tells either so that they aren't lynched by the rest of the town. I'm honestly not trying to be careful in my posts, it's just the way I am, the thing is there's no proof of that since I'm so new.

[Adel]

My theory is that being too careful is a little anti-town, assuming that the resulting increase in information and activity by not being too careful is worth more than the increased chance of a mis-lynch. I may be wrong. I certainly do not have this game figured out yet.

[Guardian]

My theory is that being too careful is a little anti-town, assuming that the resulting increase in information and activity by not being too careful is worth more than the increased chance of a mis-lynch. I may be wrong. I certainly do not have this game figured out yet.

Hmm. That is my game theory that I tried to explain to MeMe much earlier in the game, too . I think your posting a lot and your slips showed you to be scum though .

I am too tired to fully consider your essay a few posts back, but I will do so when I get the time. Maybe you are a townie, just one with a few slipups and crazy theories?

Also, quoted for truth:

I would not be comfortable lynching Nano until we get more from CO and BM. I would also like to see a little more from Streeflo and Ecto as well right now. I would like to see Dog_mom and Nanook take serious stands for and against a couple of people. I would love to see MeMe drop a 7 paragraph logic bomb on this thread. I would like to see all of the above before we lynch anyone, and I am beginning to worry about the deadline. Less than 5 days now. YB is out of consideration because of his claim, CO shares some faults with Nano, but Nano is the best candidate for scum that I can see.

I really agree with you there... I am going to sleep on it but maybe you aren't the play. The only thing I disagree with is YB, I need to do a re-read on him, I am beginning to think more and more that he is scum who just tried a fake claim... A little bell keeps going off in my head telling me that this game isn't a two cop game...

[Adel]

If you think my amount of posting is a tell then I invite you to meta-game me. >16 posts a day. Only one finished game. (where Dog_mom won easily as scum)

A little bell keeps going off in my head telling me that this game isn't a two cop game...

Me too, but I do not think it is worth the risk day 1. Two cops of unknown sanity is just plausible enough for me to doubt that little bell. I am not sure what the best way to identify the sanity and alignments of our claimed cop are, or if I should post my guesses. I think suggesting a course of action in this instance may potentially benefit the scum more than the town (I may be learning). Worth talking about.

[Guardian]

Hey, I am too tired to be posting (and that is probably why I wasn't clear in the first place), but fyi, what I think is scummy is not your posting a lot, in and of itself, but the content that came from you posting a lot. Posting a lot is pro-town, and I agreed with you on that.

And yeah, I very much doubt that YB is a cop, but I guess leaving him around for at least one night is the play.

Me, sleep, now.

[Battle Mage]

BM'S getting a prod. Votecount later.

just to clarify guys, im not lurking. ive got exams till the end of the week, at which point i will be rereading any and all games that warrant it. Dont worry, ill be back before the deadline.

[MeMe]

Just to clarify, Battle Mage, you

are

lurking. You've just offered an excuse for doing so. Considering that I count 7 games in which you posted content without resorting to your exam excuse in any of them --

after

telling us you you couldn't do it here (and

implying

that you weren't doing it anywhere) -- I'm not buying it. This is the only one under deadline, so it should be the one game that absolutely "warrants" your attention.

If you can post everywhere else without excuse of any kind, not doing so here must be deliberate.

unvote: Nanosauramo
vote: Battle Mage

[DogMom]

Catching up from yesterday's stuff...

Ok, we're under deadline of Saturday, so I think it's time for me to codify some random thoughts.

The big play of the day has obviously been the 2 cop claims. I don't like it, either. I honestly don't think we'd have 2 cops in a Mini-game,

but

I'm not going to be second-guessing the mod, either. So it stands. Also, there's scummy behavior from each of the 2 claimants, so I really can't choose. In any case, I think neither of them is the play for today.

YagamiLight I've seen really nothing scummy about; ditto MeMe.

Adel...Adel's made some

weird

suggestions, but she's got a track record of weird suggestions. Some of 'em may be due to newbieness. In any case, she's posted

quite

a bit of content and I think her suggestions, though sometimes odd and potentially harmful to town, have been with good intent to try to

help

town.

Erotomachia and ChaosOmega have both come across as generally town as well, along with Streeflo, IMO. I've been over the case on both sides for Nanook, and suffice it to say that I don't think he's the play for today either.

So now we're down to Nanosauromo and Battle Mage, and for the same reason, essentially. I don't like lurking, especially when someone claims to be constantly refreshing and watching, but just has nothing to say. However, Nano

has

tried to post SOME analysis in the last few posts, which is making me lean toward Battle Mage.
Especially after Battle Mage's claim to be "in exams" this week. Oh really? No time to play Mafia?
Let's see....his last post in here before his "exam claim" was A throwaway post claiming people are "jealous", and occurred on June 8.
Since that post he has posted to

several

games, only one other of which have a deadline, and a few "game ideas" threads and so forth. All the time in the world to play the other twenty games he's enrolled in, but not here? I don't think so. Lurking-as-a-tactic is a stupid one, and it just doesn't pay off. Especially not in THIS game!

Vote: Battle Mage

On preview: Dang, yeah, what MeMe said and everything. Geez.

[Adel]

[quote="Adel"]
On the other hand, if you go to the profile screen belonging to Battle Mage, and list all posts by that user, you have to look through 2&1/2 pages to find his last Theoville post. Those of you who've played with him before, which is more likely:
a. he forgot about this game, and didn't add it to his watched topics or something
b. he is using lurking as a deliberate tactic.[/quote

Now he is promising to post the same day as the deadline?

Looks like b. to me.

unvote vote:Battle Mage

[Guardian]

I too have no read so far on MeMe, Streeflo, or YL. This disturbs me. MeMe could be scum or town, both just as easily. Ditto with YL. Ditto with Streeflo - and I

really

feel he is flying under the radar, he cast one vote and unvoted, and no one has voted for him. I really am not sure I agree with MeMe's game theory about people not being too suspicious of you but also not being sure if you are town as being good pro-town theory. All three of those players are employing it, and I don't like it.

Then there are the lurkers, who I am more sure that I don't like...

DogMom, "Also, there's scummy behavior from each of the 2 claimants, so I really can't choose. In any case, I think neither of them is the play for today. " Substantiate that please. As in, back up, with evidence, that there has been significant scummy behavior from both of us, specifically me. To me it seems like you are setting up yet another either or choice. Also, you FoS YB and NanoS, and a post later follow MeMe onto BM? I am shocked no one else is finding you scummy. I am happy with my vote on Adel right now, but if pressure shifts to you I will not be at all displeased.

BM, I don't buy that you are automatically scum because of this, and am more than a bit surprised at the three quick votes in a row. However, I definitely am interested in hearing what you have to say from yourself.

Adel, you write well, and I enjoy reading your posts, but I am still getting a scummy read on you. Why switch your vote to BM just a few hours later after you lay out such a good case on NanoS?

[YagamiLight]

I would also love to hear BM's response to MeMe, and would still like YB to answer my questions

I'm sorry, thought it was clear, but what I had wanted was a comment from him about the contradictions and why I must be scum for pointing them out.

especially since its been almost 2 days since his last post here, and he has been active in other games.

[YogurtBandit]

I would also love to hear BM's response to MeMe, and would still like YB to answer my questions

I'm sorry, thought it was clear, but what I had wanted was a comment from him about the contradictions and why I must be scum for pointing them out.

especially since its been almost 2 days since his last post here, and he has been active in other games.

What are your questions?

[Nanosauromo]

I agree with Dogmom and Meme on the BM issue. I will change my vote to him if he fails to respond to them within a reasonable time.

[YagamiLight]

My self quote, they have been on here so often now. I wanted a comment on your contradiction. My main question, though, is why you said i was scum for pointing them out?

[Adel]

Why switch your vote to BM just a few hours later after you lay out such a good case on NanoS?

Always lynch the liar. The dude has posted many many posts elsewhere since he replaced into this game.

I still think Nano make a good candidate, but the chance that he is just a lousy townie are far greater than the chance that BM was telling the truth. Immediately pressuring him is a good idea; lynching him is a good idea once he has had a chance to respond to his wagon.

I copied my earlier post (and messed up the tags) to show that I'd introduced the possibility that he was lurking as a deliberate tactic much earlier. Now he's lied about it. I believe that he has exams, but his posts elsewhere prove that he's had time to post here.

[YogurtBandit]

My self quote, they have been on here so often now. I wanted a comment on your contradiction. My main question, though, is why you said i was scum for pointing them out?

Simple mistake. and I dont recall saying you were scum for THAT reason.

[YagamiLight]

Good catch!

How did of a contradiction do you think it is?

I think it lends more weight to the earlier theory (and I can't remember who the credit goes to for this- Guardian?) that YB made a fake-claim to confuse the doctor and draw protection off of Guardian. Lies are harder to keep track of than truth.

I'm not convinced just by this yet.

Can I make a suggestion, and get a fair hearing for it? Can we all brainstorm the best case against YB? I'm not proposing a bandwagon, just a cooperative collection of the evidence against him? I've never voted for him, nor have I been very suspicious of him, but I have could easily missed something more damning. Is there anything else?

If there isn't, then that one contradiction of his isn't much worse than my "do something scummy" line.

Oh how nice, Adel is congratulating her Scum Buddy. Ithink you two are scum. You can bet my investigation is going to be on you. Think. Just think.

YL- that is not what I said. I said that at first I didnt mean to claim, I meant to destroy Guardians claim, but It turned into a claim.

You only announce I'm scum after I bring up the contradiction, making me Adel's scum buddy.

[theopor_COD]

Votecount 10

Adel 4 - Guardian, YogurtBandit, Nanosauromo, ChaosOmega
Battle Mage 3 - MeMe, Adel, DogMom
Nanosauromo 2 -Erotomachia, NanookTheWolf

Not yet committing themselves - Battle Mage, YagamiLight, Streeflo

Some 4 days 11 hours to deadline.

[Adel]

Adel 4 - Guardian, YogurtBandit, Nanosauromo, ChaosOmega
Battle Mage 3 - MeMe, Adel, DogMom
Nanosauromo 2 -Erotomachia, NanookTheWolf
[/b]

To me that is very illuminating, a pretty picture isn't necessary. Votes provide good information.

Guardian I am not suspicious of, and BM didn't vote, but otherwise I pretty much see players grouped by alignment.

I expect to find at least two scum among YogurtBandit, Nanosauromo, ChaosOmega, and Battle Mage.

And spare me the OMGUS finger pointing. I see who is voting for me.

[YogurtBandit]

Adel 4 - Guardian, YogurtBandit, Nanosauromo, ChaosOmega
Battle Mage 3 - MeMe, Adel, DogMom
Nanosauromo 2 -Erotomachia, NanookTheWolf
[/b]

I expect to find at least two scum among YogurtBandit, Nanosauromo, ChaosOmega, and Battle Mage.

Again with the whole, I bet at least two of A,B,C, AND D are scum. Youve played that card too much.

[Adel]

What I think is awesome is that your first two votes, early in the game, were on N-L and CO, over a week ago. Since then you

have not mentioned the names of anyone on my scum list even once.

BM makes a blunder, no comment from you. Nano at least seems to peg on most people's scum meter, yet no comment from you. No questions for them, and no defense of them.
Each of the people on my list, in my opinion, have a greater than 50% chance of being scum. I expect 2 of you are scum, with a small possibly of three.

I think this card is true.

[Adel]

er.. you did have a little exchange with CO last Wednesday where you accused each other of not posting content, and when BM replaced in you said something like "oh no, not BM". So it has almost been a week.

Apologies to everyone for missing that.

I still feel confident of my card though.

YB: first vote on N-L->2nd vote on CO->exchanges posts with CO last Wed->never mentions Nano
N-L/BM:never votes, never really accuses anyone
Nano: never mentions any of the others, until last post which may be prep for bussing his buddy
CO: first vote on N-L->2nd vote on YB->continues to point call YB scummy through last post->never mentions Nano

CO has fingered YB, otherwise no relations.

The lack of relations between them is a scum tell. This could be a function of lurking, however Streeflo and Erotomachia (I see both as lurkers right now) don't have a similar lack of relations with the members of my scum list.

I have independent reasons for being suspicious of each person on my card, & the lack of relations between them is the cherry.

[Streeflo]

This is quite a load of posts and one of the most active games I see in Little Italy. I don't really blame BM for falling behind, and despite his apparent lies about lurking, and I am wary of the 3 votes in quick succession on him. I hope no one else bandwagons him, because those seem like pressure votes to get BM to talk. Lurkers shouldn't be lynched. They should be pressured into posting.

I agree with Dogmom and Meme on the BM issue. I will change my vote to him if he fails to respond to them within a reasonable time.

Sure. Convenient excuse to drop a vote on him later.

FoS: Nanosauromo

for that. I like the huge essay Adel gave in the prior page. It'll be good to judge reactions from when we find our first scum.

I like MeMe's posts, and she's protown in my mind. Or maybe that's because she's just good.

Adel and Guardian are similar to me. Both are very very neutral. Looks protown from a distance, but I could easily imagine them being scum. I'll get back to those two later.

[Nanosauromo]

Er... excuse?

[Battle Mage]

wow im getting alot of this shit recently
its odd. whenever anyone goes away for a matter of months, people dont care. I disappear for a week, and people panic and go awoll.

To clarify here (as i have had to do in various other games):

I am currently doing exams, until Friday. In theory, i shouldnt have time to come on MS and post in ANY games, but i love Mafia so damn much, i come on and post anyway. So, atm there are a select few games that i post in regularly. No, its not an indication of my affiliation in those games, its simply because it doesnt take me long periods of time to catch up on them. I dont believe i even finished my reread in this game, hence i wont be posting mindless crap, until i get the chance to read the game in full.

I apologise for the inconvenience, but i hate being called a lurker. the fact that opportunistic scum think they are clever for waggonning me for it, is infuriating to say the least.