Mini 436 - Game over - Mafia wins with no casualties!

[DeathSauce]

Para has a couple of votes on him from (IMO) pro town players.

I just noticed this. The two voting Para are Miztef and Van Damien! I have to say I was not expecting such a blatant slip-up and it only confirms my belief that the three of you are scum.

Mod edit
Votecount:
Paradoxombie 1 (VanDamien)
DeathSauce 2 (ryan, Miztef)
ryan 1 (DeathSauce)

Not voting 5: TopHat, Paradoxombie, Trustgossip, StallingChamp, vollkan

With 9 alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

[ryan]

What exact scum hunting have you done Deathsauce? Looking back at your posts you’ve done just enough to look busy while not posting any clear cut explanations. Yet you posted this in post 140

Ha! I like this theory. I am also going to start voting lurkers here pretty soon, we've got a few people that aren't contributing anything.

No game conclusions from you, no summary, nada. Just a bunch of claims at people with no evidence. Look back through, I’ve posted individual player summaries, and actively been looking, can you say the same? I mean the only person you posted any (little amount) of content about was ABR and heck everyone thought he was scum for the way he played. You did constantly bring up the possibility about a “psychopath role” even after that was proved to not exist. Than post 248

Bah!

Unvote

.

I can't keep my vote on a replacement player.

The question I have is this. If you feel the player’s “role” is scummy, why wouldn’t you keep a vote on them until the replacement has time to comment? You seem to think that a new player will sway your vote, I completely disagree. A player is playing a role, if that role is scummy, I’m keeping my vote on till I hear from the replacement as to why they shouldn’t have a vote on them and their analysis. You seem quick to jump off your vote. I than ask you a question in post 249

So Deathsauce, you haven't weighed in awhile, what do you think about this whole Albert B. Rampage, Paradoxombie and Miztef? Any opinions you'd like to share?

Completely ignored as you disappear until post 284 to welcome DogMom into our game (oh speaking of misquoting) How about this gem

Here's my latest re-reading of the situation, in brief.

Albert's goal seems to be to make it to Day Two.

No explanation until day 2 for you

if I'm wrong I won't even last until Day2.

we can do as Miztef said and lynch me on Day 2

also reference his bet with VanDamien which was engineered to get him to survive until Day Two.

I'm not sure what the significance of surviving an extra day is, but it seems odd. The fact that Miztef seemed to have the same goal is possibly useful information.

You were upset at me for misquoting you or only taking a few lines, yet you did the same thing earlier? Post 502 complains about ABR being all over the place but eventually we WILL have to let that go and concentrate on the current players right? You promised content before that and still never took a stance on anyone and you brought up the setup of the game (IMO) a nice way to swerve the rest of us into that argument instead of actively looking for you and your buddies. Than you leave June 7th and fast forward to post 548 where you throw suspicion at myself, Miztef and VD with the argument that we don’t have any evidence or content to back up our claims. The post is more defensive than it is helpful in finding scum. You target me for no content yet you drop this as your evidence on me

Ryan keeps trying to harp on my lack of content,

but I have been at least as active as the average player in this game

. Ryan has a lot more posts, but I would argue actually contain less content. Ryan intentionally misquoted me just one page back by isolating ONE sentence from a 3 paragraph post and presenting it as the entirety of the post, while at the same time agreeing with my analysis.

Vote:ryan

SO you admit to not being as active as you could be YET you think you have better content than I do? Please point it out to me. Than you throw this cherry on top of my argument on you

Para has a couple of votes on him from (IMO) pro town players.

I just noticed this. The two voting Para are Miztef and Van Damien! I have to say I was not expecting such a blatant slip-up and it only confirms my belief that the three of you are scum.

So three people think somebody is scum and so that means they have to be scum together? Looks to me as though you were looking for a cheap way to find three people together and targeted us, more defensive than anything. You are scum, period. Now the question is, who are your buddies?

[DeathSauce]

So three people think somebody is scum and so that means they have to be scum together?

Yes, especially when they offer no evidence other than just constantly agreeing with each other that so-and-so is scum.

As far as your asking me a question in post 249, I don't remember reading in the Terms of Use that I had to answer every question put to me by another player. I will answer your questions as I feel they are relevant, I am under no obligation to do so.

You were upset at me for misquoting you or only taking a few lines, yet you did the same thing earlier?

Uhh, I was not claiming anywhere in that post that it was the entire post, which is what you attempted to do with me by implying that there was no further content other than what you quoted. Completely different situations.

Than you leave June 7th and fast forward to post 548 where you throw suspicion at myself, Miztef and VD with the argument that we don’t have any evidence or content to back up our claims. The post is more defensive than it is helpful in finding scum.

It just so happens that I think it was extremely helpful in finding scum, since it laid out exactly who I think the scum are. You are the one that has been asking us all along to post what we think about everyone, you should be very happy with that post!

[ryan]

Hey I'm glad you finally showed your true colors. I don't understand though how you get upset with me for not posting evidence (when looking back clearly I did) yet you throw out a claim that Miztef, VD and I are scum with no evidence except we voted for you.

[DeathSauce]

Wow ryan, your posts have taken on a completely different tone, I guess I struck a nerve!

[ryan]

Struck a nerve? Absolutley not. I'm putting my opinion out there on your comments. I mean if you are going to finger me for something that you've done as well it's a little hypocritical isn't it? You fingered three people scum because they voted you which in my mind is scummy. I'm confident enough in my claim to post about it, the question is, are you?

[DeathSauce]

You fingered three people scum because they voted you

Wrong, you are the only one that has voted for me. Don't try to pretend that this is an OMGUS move by me. The fact is that the three of you have been acting in concert for the last 3 pages, taking minor digs at each other, but always managing to find the same players suspicious.

I'm confident enough in my claim to post about it, the question is, are you?

What does this mean? I have been doing nothing but posting about what I think since I got back.

[DeathSauce]

EBWOP: I see at the top of the page that Miztef has also voted for me. I honestly did not notice that in my reading of the thread.

[VanDamien]

@Para: you didn't become his stated NK target until after you followed me in going after him, so no, at the time you pushed Al's lynch, you didn't have anything to lose.

That said, I'm surprised our scum has become so bold as to defend each other directly. I'm happy with a Para or DeathSauce lynch today.

[ryan]

VD: I'm confused by your statement. What scum defended eachother directly? (as stated in your post) I see Deathsauce thumbing us a scum trio for posting thoughts and feeling somewhat the same (although your vote in now on Para which I missed) on people who are scum, who were you speaking of? Also DeathSauce is my vote for today but with you saying you'd be happy to see Para or DeathSauce go, who do you feel is the third scum partner?

[vollkan]

@DeathSaucce: Miztef voted for you in post 539.

I believe this game needs more evidence overall. We should start bandwagoning/voting with intent to lynch people we find scummy and get some more information.I've already tried paradox, but he's seems to busy to defend himself at this time anyway. I'll try up to try deathsauce or VD next. If not them, then Ryan or Trust are fine with me as well.

I'll send out a unvote vote: DeathSauce first, as some people already agree with me that he is one of the scummier ones. (Vollkan, ryan, VD)

Some of the evidence against DeathSauce can be read in post 514 by ryan. I will try to further build the case.

As an aside, that last bit there is interesting and does support DeathSauce's line of thinking.

Anyway, to the body of my post now:
@Ryan
A large number of your posts have been one sentence lines about wanting people to "weigh in" and wanting to "hunt scum". To me, that looks just like posting to avoid looking like lurking. This changed a bit when you made your massive post at [514]. Then, it relapsed with [532] and [534]. The strongest part of DeathSauce's argument against you is the fact that you accuse him or lurking whilst making insubstantial posts yourself. At [540] you said:

think the main case I have against Deathsauce is the lack of actual content. Looking back through his posts I just don't see alot that is worthwhile in finding scum. I just find it lurky and with the thread crawling right now I would hope some content would come. I do think fresh blood with replacements for StallingChamp and TopHat will be a welcome change, as TopHat fell off the thread completely and StallingChamp........well he's had other "issues" I believe.

Vollkan: I am leaning on VD being town with a definete townie being placed on Miztef. The three right now I'm thinking are scum is Deathsauce, Paradoxombie and either TopHat or StallingChamp. I get a pro town vibe from you with your posts and since I know I'm town, I'm thinking that 3 of those 4 are the scum as it looks like the overall thought process is that we have 3 scum.

You seem most certain about VD and Miztef and then say you get a pro-town vibe from me. Then your scum are DeathSauce, Para and TopHat or SC. I suspect Para more than DeathSauce and I don't have an opinion on TopHat or SC (for obvious reasons). You are one of my third candidates Ryan because much of your posting looks just like you are trying to coax out people's opinions whilst posting little of anything yourself. You did make that large post, but it was only after I had pointed out your lack of content. There is some weight DeathSauce's argument.

@DeathSauce
You have not posted much of substance. That is the main argument against you. You have also been away, which offsets some of that. I don't need to make an analysis here like I did for Ryan because it is more your lack of posting which is the issue. Hence, I also am inclined to agree with Ryan. Your suggestion of the scum trio as Miztef, VD and Ryan is interesting.

Miztef has struck me as pro-town. VD and Ryan, however, have raised my suspicion a tad as you can see from this post and my past ones.

In regards to what you are saying, at [526] he stated:

Therefore, I'd have to say I find you, DeathSauce, and Paradox the most scummy, but not likely to be a scumgroup together. My forth choice would have to be a tie between Trust/ryan at this time.

The interesting thing here is that both yourself and Miztef have Paradox and VD (the "you" in the above quote as scum. Though he says that you are not likely to be a "scumgroup". At [500] Miztef made it look like he found Para the most suspicious. Though, he has his vote on DeathSauce now.

Also, for convenience, these are the opinions of people:
Myself: Para, DeathSauce, Ryan/VD (leaning more to Ryan)
Miztef: DeathSauce, Para, Trust/Ryan/VD
DeathSauce: Ryan, Miztef, VD
VD: Para, DeathSauce, myself/Trust
Ryan: DeathSauce, Para, TopHat/SC
SC: -unclear-
TopHat: -unclear-
Para: -unclear-
Trust: -unclear-

Para and DeathSauce seem to have the bulk of the suspicion. I have to go to uni now but I will be back later to discuss any thoughts on this.

[VanDamien]

who do you feel is the third scum partner?

vollkan

Here's my thing: an initial reread of day one got me thinking vollkan was scum, and as I pondered on that, and who his buddies could be if he is, I had an inkling that DeathSauce and Para were most likely. So, somewhat early in day 2, I vote vollkan. Almost immediately the other two jump either jump to his defense, or attack me. Vollkan's posting gets a little better as day 2 goes along, perhaps he realizes what has happened.

Anyway, now we get to a point where general consensus is narrowing down to either DeathSauce or Para, not just myself, Miztef, and you, but Trust seems to be leaning that way also. The other two are inactive, and our three scum have jumped on the chance to go on the attack.

[Paradoxombie]

I agree with Trust about Para. Filtering the ABR situation through a polarizing lens, I see myself and Para pushing it primarily. I know I'm VT, and I feel it likely, and I'd be surprised that it isn't a common thought, that scum had to be helping push that. Especially if they thought they could not only get one townie lynched, but another taken out in the process.

You think we shouldn't have gone after ABR?

[Paradoxombie]

Here's my thing: an initial reread of day one got me thinking vollkan was scum, and as I pondered on that, and who his buddies could be if he is, I had an inkling that DeathSauce and Para were most likely. So, somewhat early in day 2, I vote vollkan. Almost immediately the other two jump either jump to his defense, or attack me.

confusing me with Miztef?

[VanDamien]

No, I think now that we know ABR was not scum, it seems an easy wagon for scum to push since he was acting so damned scummy. I know that I'm VT, and you were the other one strongly on his case. If there was likely scum pushing his lynch, it must therefore be you.

[Paradoxombie]

So you do think we should have gona after ABR? Just clarifying

[ryan]

I will say this VD, your third being Vollkan is interesting. Knowing I am town makes me immediately suspicious about DeathSauce's scum trio pairing but to also do it because Miztef and I "agree on things" is a little puzzling. There were three people commenting for the longest time in this thread (Vollkan weighed in a little for #4) and either we would have been agreeing on some things we saw, arguing constantly (no help to the town) or coming up with some content. I think the past 3 pages (maybe 4) are filled with ideas and thoughts that the lurky people in this thread need to check out. DeathSauce has used very shady reasons for his vote, thrown out a scum trio with not alot of valid reasons. I'm more confident in DeathSauce being our scum than Para and to be honest I wouldn't be shocked to see TopHat in there just because it's very possible he was a scum that was frustrated on how to use his role.

[DeathSauce]

I will not bother with this ridiculous back and forth. I'll let the rest of the town re-read the interactions between ryan, Miztef, and Van Damien, and make their own decisions. It's pretty plain that the three of you have gotten a little too confident due to your successful Night One.

Your constant attempts to lead the voting are about as scummy of a behavior as I have seen, all starting with Van Damien and ryan being

very

quick to vote on Day 2, even though it was possible we are in a LYLO situation, a situation in which we need to be

very

careful with our voting.

[ryan]

How aren't we being careful? You have two votes on your head and with 5 to lynch the possibility of a quick lynch is darn near impossible. I stated a case on why I thought you were scum and I'm a quick vote? Did you take anything away from Day 1 and how it went down? I used Day 1 thoughts to support my Day 2 case on you. Definetly not done quickly nor an attempt at a quick lynch.

[DeathSauce]

There were two night kills. That means there is quite possibly a SK. A townie placing a vote early in Day 2 allows the 3 scum and the SK to quicklynch. Therefore placing a vote early on Day 2 is a bad idea.

Admittedly this is less of a problem in a game that is apparently missing 2 players, but the basis of the theory is sound.

[ryan]

If three people voted all in a row and quickly, wouldn't it be obvious who was scum?

[DeathSauce]

Yes, but it would be too late to do anything about it. Lynch of a Townie + Scum Nightkill + SK Nightkill = Town loses.

[Miztef]

I understand the theory deathsauce, and thanks for pointing it out, I didn't realize we were so close to it.

It is also true, however, that the theory requires the quick succession of all the scums votes, or else the ones that do vote would be seen as scummy. This theory does make me more suspicious of you though, because 2 votes are on you and the scum have yet to pile on and win. This means one of these situations is probably true: ryan is scum, or that the scum don't wish to risk revealing themselves in this way, or that you are scum.

I also would like to add I don't feel that deathsauce and ryan are scumbuddies.

[ryan]

Honestly Miztef as much good discussion (finally) we've had the last 3 pages there haven't been any bandwagon's start on anyone. I think DeathSauce is our scum and that is why he hasn't been quicklynched, why would his buddies want to eliminate him?

[Miztef]

It's a possibility but blantly rushing into this is not the answer ryan. We should get more opinions from the town on this subject.

You, for example, have been accused of being scum many times. If you are scum, it easily explains why the rest of the scum haven't jumped on the bandwagon. It could also be that the scum can't co-odinate the 3 votes needed in a fashion quick enough to win without one of use unvoting.

Lastly, The possibility of a vig or SK or other NKer would mean the scum doesn't auto win in that situation.

Please refrain from drawing concludsions so quickly in the future.