Mini 1622: (Hilariously) Unbalanced Mafia [-Over-]

[Bulbazak]

/confirming that you suck

<<< Aww, but I LIKE Voidedmafia... >>>

[Bulbazak]

<<< Hey, that's my line! >>>

[Bulbazak]

Spoiler: You know what this game needs?

<<< Sorry, has cow this game does not. >>>

[Bulbazak]

To be fair, that first message wasn't addressed to you.

[Bulbazak]

That would be telling.

[Bulbazak]

Hi empty tomb!

[Bulbazak]

I love you too.

[Bulbazak]

We should lynch her.

[Bulbazak]

This just in: Tier is scum with the dinosaur.

[Bulbazak]

What do you think that I think that you are doing?

[Bulbazak]

That's not what I'm thinking at all. Why did you ignore my statement that the dinosaur was scum and just focused on my accusation that you were scum with him?

[Bulbazak]

No. I just found it curious. You still didn't question it though. Why not?

[Bulbazak]

Why would I tell you? I suspect you.

[Bulbazak]

Why do you suspect me?

For trying too hard and then getting defensive when called out.

Bulba, where'd your reads come from?

The magical reads fairy.

I pointed out the WIFOM because I was under the impression it was a joke.

Okay.

Bulbazak, why do you suspect TS?

Tier's 32 is a bit overeager IMO

No. I just found it curious. You still didn't question it though. Why not?

Interesting.

Is this going to be one of those games?

mass rolecall anyone?

Hi, I'm Bulba. (Hi Bulba...) And that's all you're getting from me.

I am a one-shot miller. So, yeah.

Only one?

Vote Nazarene

[Bulbazak]

Hey Shos, do you have any opinion on the game whatsoever?

[Bulbazak]

Eddifenix is not bulbafenix. Bulba isnt. But fenix.

We're both BulbaFenix.

[Bulbazak]

@Bulba

: I'm asking if your read on TS had anything to do with what DGB was doing or his reaction to her.

No. It's quite separate.

Why do you suspect me?

For trying too hard and then getting defensive when called out.

See, you wanted to tell me anyway!
-Tier

You sly dog. You got me monologuing.

Don't kill Nazarene

Why not?

With pretentious I mean the overly strong reads early game. Which he always does.

There's a difference between having strong reads and displaying a strong firmness when persuing your reads. I'm not going to tell you which is which.

Hey Eddie, the vote is nice and all, but do you have any opinion on anything else happening in the game?

[Bulbazak]

Shos, what is it with you and fluff?

<<< Stealing a play from Anti's rulebook, I heard a rumor that he does it to avoid hardness. >>>

[Bulbazak]

Well game isnt evolved enough for any nonfluff.

Then why aren't you prodding people, questioning them, looking for reactions, etc.?

I haz lots of bulbameta.

And?

[Bulbazak]

Shos, are you a jester?

[Bulbazak]

Is the answer going to be significant/not full of WIFOM?

You really like invoking WIFOM, don't ya?

[Bulbazak]

Why so sore, Eddie?

[Bulbazak]

What part of hilariously unbalanced and possibly (meaning probably) bastard don't you get?

[Bulbazak]

That's nice to know. Do you have anything else more substantial?

[Bulbazak]

I think 1 shot miller is bullshit and probably scum

Is there a reason you think that other than it being a weird role?

What part of hilariously unbalanced and possibly (meaning probably) bastard don't you get?

Sure, but does Mastin even like Millers?

I think this question is sorta moot in a game where Mastin deliberately threw the rules out the window in order to have a crazy game. I have no doubt that this game contains a miller of some sort.

Sequence of events.

EddieFenix votes the towniest player of the game, aka Bulbazak.
I punish EddieFenixscum by voting for him.
EddieFenix's buddy, BBmolla, is upset that I caught his buddy so quickly, and votes me.
BBmolla admits that this "may be" the case indeed.

@mastin2

can you fluff up my post, it's a little bit thin, LOL. <3

Pretty plausible. I can buy this.

Really? I felt that DGB was kinda stretching there.

Unvote

Vote Voidedmafia

[Bulbazak]

Why so sore, Eddie?

Believe sore is the wrong word here.

How so? Do you want to lynch DGB for any other reason than it being DGB?

How goes for you though? Any big fish you're looking to fry yet?

I'm still sorting. There are several individuals that feel off, but I'm not sure if it's a scum off yet. I'm hoping to have more by the end of the day.

@Ika: Can we have some sort of key to understand your list?

[Bulbazak]

Hey Mastin, guess what?

Unvote

Vote Sonic Boom

<<< What if I wanted to guess "who" instead? >>>

[Bulbazak]

Jackal, on the other hand, looks opportunistic and almost as useless as I was.

What's opportunistic about him? Also, why is uselessness a scum tell for Jackal, but not for you? I'm really not seeing the vote here, especially since the same reasons could be given to justify a vote on you.

@Ika: That's an awful lot of scum on that list, and it doesn't seem to match at all with this:

1. shos

2. Nazarene (TierShift+Aegor)

3. Voidedmafia

4. Sonic Boom (Metal Sonic+Titus)

5. Bulbazak

6. EddieFenix

7. ProHawk

6. ika

9.

Doyouthinkhesaurus (Mathdino+blindmewithscience)

10. BBmolla

11. pirate mollie

12. Jackel98

13. DrippingGoofball

that should be about right from what i have read

I'm getting strange vibes from shos, like not town-vibes.

I'm actually starting to get the opposite.

[Bulbazak]

More people need to vote Sonic.

[Bulbazak]

Because Sonic and Titus make themselves known a lot more when they're town, and they're kinda coasting in this game.

[Bulbazak]

Because Sonic and Titus make themselves known a lot more when they're town, and they're kinda coasting in this game.

I was vla hosting a meet.

Still doesn't excuse MS. Generally I'm getting town vibes from him at this point. I'm not. Ergo, vote.

[Bulbazak]

It's official. Voided's scum.

[Bulbazak]

Tier, we've been town together before, in Pick Your Power.

[Bulbazak]

This makes me think. You have never given me vibes like you're doing here. This is the first time I've not seen you pick fights and I'm reading that as town, but I don't know if I should.

I'm trying to take my time developing reads. Nothing's particularly jumping out at me so far, which is worrying me. I'm concerned that we might have a strong scum team on our hands.

[Bulbazak]

Maaaybe...

[Bulbazak]

To those who think he's scum,

where's the scum motivation in his posts? What, independently of what you know about him, seems scummy to you? Because I haven't seen that adequately explained.

Voided's pursuit of Shos based on his contradictory stance of Jackel feels off. Voided is essentially beating a dead horse on an issue that simple experience should tell him does not designate a scum slip. Shos is an easy wagon, and if town, would be the best mislynch to push through to limit information. Voided's push on Shos is for a BS reason and lacks the conviction I'd expect to see from town tunneling for a dumb reason. Simply put, Voided-scum doesn't want to get rid of such a tasty mislynch opportunity. There's also his treatment of Sonic, who he says "gives him bad feelings as well", although he's reluctant to really go further there. The language there is weak and only serves to open up an opportunity to jump on the Sonic wagon later, either to push that mislynch or to bus, which I think is most likely, given how Sonic would be a better no information lynch anyway and Voided is steering clear of it in favor of Shos.

Basically, 252's whole "I hadn't considered that angle on my posts until Dino pointed it out" is incredibly town to me, I'd have expected scum to at least defend it or show some semblance of self-awareness. Furthermore a lot of it is in fact explained by his LA, including the jack(el)pedalling.

How did you come to the conclusion of that statement being town instead of scum buddying you?

I'm actually starting to get the opposite.

??

Shos's play is reminding me a lot of Inuyasha.

[Bulbazak]

See... that actually was the game I was going to compare it to, and it actually doesn't remind me of it at all. Maybe cause you had scum-blinders on? What part about it reminds you of the same Shos?

The style of sparse content and low activity is reminiscent of the early stages of that game. I guess this is where our experiences differ, since you have an entire game to refer to, while I only have the first day or so. I just get a weird sense of deja vu when reading his posts.

[Bulbazak]

What are your reads on Ika, Sonic Boom, and Saurus and why?

Ika is null. I haven't seen anything to make me lean town or scum on him, and I don't want to rush into a townread after Binding of Isaac. Sonic is scum. MS in particular is not impressing me, and both players in that hydra should be hitting me over the head with their towniness by now. I don't buy the meet excuse. That doesn't go for both heads, and Titus has done zilch since then. As for the Dino, logic says town, gut says scum. I'm unable to reconcile the two, so I'm leaving them alone for now.

[Bulbazak]

Bulb: Can you sum up Binding of Isaac as it relates to Ika for me?

He argued with Kuribo. I thought he was town. He was scum.

I don't think I've really played with Metal Sonic very much, and how people glean townreads off of him is something that's currently very foreign to me, so could you help explain what I'm supposed to be seeing that isn't there?

He's normally a lot more active and involved as town. I expect a town Sonic to be in everybody's business and to have reached out to me early.

[Bulbazak]

He argued with Kuribo. I thought he was town. He was scum.

Isn't Kuribo one of those players who's a tightly controlled ball of rage, IIRC? Wouldn't arguing with him be almost inherently null without looking into how the arguing is being used?

Ika drew the full ire of Kuribo in that game. That's not something you purposely do as scum. I mistakingly townread him for it.

Has anybody else noticed that Jackel disappeared? I checked into his activity, and he seems to be giving this game the least amount of attention.

[Bulbazak]

@Mod: I think you need to consolidate your VC.

<<< No, you see, one person voted the Titus half of Sonic Boom and the other voted the Metal Sonic half of Sonic Boom, thus the divide!
Clearly.

(Fixing.)

>>>

[Bulbazak]

Hey Bulb: where's that razor sharp edge? Normally, you have a few strong reads by now. And that worries me... Especially after your iso.

A combination of a lot of players I have trouble reading and nothing that comes out and grabs my attention as super scummy. I have a few good town reads, but the more solid scum reads are unlikely to solidify until after I've seen a full day of play.

[Bulbazak]

beetlejuice!

miss anything?

Your scumpartners gave you up in exchange for us not lynching them today.

[Bulbazak]

So no comment on the cop guilty I got on you?

[Bulbazak]

Dang it. Force of habit.

<<< No probs. It's not against my rules to use that color, especially not in that way. >>>

[Bulbazak]

beetlejuice!

miss anything?

Your scumpartners gave you up in exchange for us not lynching them today.

really? tell me who my imaginary scum partners are
really? how come your not voting me?
really? how come im not l-1 so i can self hammer and show you that your wrong?

in ohterwords: no i have not missed anything besides a jackal replacement.

Overreact much?

Unvote

Vote Ika

[Bulbazak]

Not sure if that's scummy, Bulb. Sounds like me, really.

Except that reaction tests and statements like that occur all the time. Town either ignores them or jokes around with them. What they don't do is lash out at the person who made the statement. That is a complete overreaction. For an example of a good reaction, check out Istott. He was caught off guard and reacted naturally, ergo town. Ika, on the other hand, completely freaked out. He's not new to this, and for someone that's gone toe to toe with Kuribo, this is not a town reaction.

@Bulba: where was your guilty result? Or were you trying something?

It was a reaction test. You passed.

Bulb, you've played with Metal Sonic more than me. I don't see anything good in that series of posts. Am I wrong or not?

You're not wrong. Vote him with me.

Unvote

Vote Sonic Boom

[Bulbazak]

titus isnt even here yet i want to play wif her pls!!!!

Why do you need Titus to play when the hydra can be used to cover for her while she's gone? In fact, you allude to this later when you say that hydra games tend to be on the bottom of the priority list. The point being that you should have known that Titus wasn't always going to be around when you signed up as a hydra, otherwise you'd have just signed up separately if you wanted to play together. This is just stalling.

@Bulbazak

: Who is scum between Ika and Sonic Boom? and what are your thoughts on voided.

If I had to pick one, I'd go with Sonic. I'm not sure why you're creating a dichotomy here. As for Voided, I'm split on him atm. If I was a cop, I'd be looking here tonight.

[Bulbazak]

Ika hammers everything and its brother as town. He also always tunnels my ass.

Sonic talk to me before voting. I hate the jackal vote. Skype me.

Unvote

This is a weird post. This implies that there is contention and disagreement between the heads. For others with experience with hydras, Is public disagreement indicative of scum, town,or null.

It's null. Convention says to speak to each other privately, but dissonance is to be expected.

[Bulbazak]

You're not wrong. Vote him with me.

Yes, Bulbazak.

Don't you mean "

Yes, master...

"?

[Bulbazak]

Sonic Boom - Town/Null (purely gut on this one)

How exactly do you get a Sonic-town read?

[Bulbazak]

But there has to be something driving your gut. I want to know what it is. What is coming across as town?

[Bulbazak]

But there has to be something driving your gut. I want to know what it is. What is coming across as town?

The Titus head. Sonic's head not so much.

The Titus head has barely spoken. Show me what you see as town.

[Bulbazak]

Unvote

Vote Eddie Fenix

[Bulbazak]

@Bulb:

Do you actually believe the claim?

Yes.

What reasons do you have for voting EF given that posts 448 ff. seem to suggest an associative tell between them; or should I take the vote as an accusation that EF is whiteknighting the SB slot?

The latter. Eddie came out strongly with a Sonic townread only when the slot was placed at L-1. I don't find that to be a coincidence, hence my exploration into the basis of his read.

[Bulbazak]

Cop claims allow me to ignore everything

Good thing all the scum are on my wagon so I can't be insta hammered

My proposed team is

Guille/mollie/DGB

I highly doubt all of the scum is on your wagon. Mollie and DGB aren't scum. Guille might be, but I find that too easy. I'm currently thinking Ika/Eddie/Dino. Possibly Voided if not Dino.

[Bulbazak]

VOTE: sonic boom

OH, we're having a Sonic Boom wagon? Sure!

VOTE: Sonic Boom

After I get NK'd because I'm the only one correctly suspecting EddieFenix, don't forget to lynch him.

these arent scum?

No. Voting you is not scummy.

Guille might be, but I find that too easy.

"too easy"?

maybe i'm too easy

Guille's entrance would be too obvious for scum, and given his join date, it would definitely be something scum-Guille would avoid. There was also the mass movement onto Guille after that, which indicates a likely scum driven wagon. So yeah, the Guille wagon is far too easy. As for you, I don't think your wagon is too easy at all. You were voted due to abnormal behavior, and even now, it is your behavior driving the leftovers of the wagon. Scum would not still be voting you and would be avoiding your wagon like the plague.

why couldn't dino and voided both be scum?

They could be. I just had Ika and Eddie as most likely. I'm actually taking my townreads and working backwards towards an initial form of PoE.

I feel like dgb and I are giving each other space and I am not sure what this means.

Do you two have a history of tunneling each other?

Naz, though, seems like scum. putting a clamed cop at L-1 on D1 after a miller claim from another slot? meh.

Seems a little obvious coming from that hydra. You don't think that it might be that they don't trust that claim at all?

I am not sure if I was voting sonic too so

unvote Sonic

just in case.

but what I find really strange is that istott picked up on metal being a "cop" and then metal claims cop and then says he didn't crumb.

like am I the only 1 who finds that whole exchange weird?

When did this happen?

Getting a scummy vibe from Dino's #513.

Hi guys, the name of this game is Hilariously.... HILARIOUSLY... UNBALANCED Mafia. Anyone trying to use balance to solve this game is scum.

VOTE: Dinosaurus

I think he was the first one? Or maybe was just the first scummy one who stuck out to me.

Why is thinking about balance scummy?

Wait guys, what if there's no scum? That would definitely be unbalanced.
Seriously.

mastin: is there definitely a scum team? If there wasn't, would you lie about it in your answer?

Sonic, in your role PM, what does it say exactly as far as your cop ability goes?

This is a bad question, and I don't see how Sonic could answer without breaking the rules. You should ask him to paraphrase.

Unvote

Vote Ika

I'm considering a possible "There is No Doctor" scenario, but I still don't want to vote Sonic. I also think everyone voting Eddie should move their votes elsewhere. If you don't know where to move said vote, Ika is not bad.

[Bulbazak]

@Bulba: Why not vote Fenix? You've said zilch on why he's town between your Fenix vote and your ika vote. Hell, the post right before your last one you called him scum. What changed?

Because it took awhile, but town Fenix has decided to poke his head out of the ground and say hi.

I'm getting strange vibes from shos, like not town-vibes. Also, up until his vote, the general vote pool has been spread thin. No-real-wagons. Could be trying to start something.

wouldn't it be easier for scum to join a wagon at this point?

He did, on Jackal. And then called Jackal 100-percent town.

This was already disproven.

So why is this scummy for ProHawk but not for Voided?

Nice PbPA, btw. It's all IIoA, but I'm sure that's enough to distract all the sheeple.

Oh wow.
VOTE: Prohawk.

See what I mean?

i really dont know what to say about the prohawk case

like

i dont know what to say

The case is bad and scummy, and you should vote him with me.

i really dont know what to say about the prohawk case

like

i dont know what to say

You can say it's pretty good.

Hey Dino.

Can you do the same exercise you did with EddieFenix that you did with proHawk?

You're kidding, right?

Voided, you're a '11 player, I expect better than that from you.

Unvote

Vote Doyouthinkhesaurus

[Bulbazak]

@Bulba, you know DGB's derp tunneling, right?

DGB always derp tunnels.

bulba, explain thesaurus vote? that's a good townread of mine

Dino's posts are disingenuous and are meant to look like he's trying. There's been a few indicators that his posting is fake, #513 being a prime example, where he scum reads Guille for easy surface reasons (aka what he's doing with ProHawk), while simultaneously faking town outrage (The "explain yourself Fenix" line is so fake it can open its own fast food chain. And are you kidding me with the agreement on MS but then coming down on the "we should still not vote him" camp? He just stayed in the lines of the common consensus, and nobody blinked and instead assigned him townie points.). I've been getting a fake vibe from Dino's posts for awhile now, and his recent "case" on ProHawk just sealed the read.

It's not

all

IIoA, Bulb. And even if it is, not all IIoA cases are scummy. Besides, the overall reasons for the case are still salient.

The case is a piece of crap. This is town ProHawk behavior, and anybody with any semblance of intelligence should recognize that. It's true that he hasn't said much, but it's not true that he's only provided fluff. If anyone would take the time to examine those posts in context, they'd find that they serve a purpose at that time. ProHawk isn't one to make huge posts and make waves. He

is

one to get right to the point. Dino's post is garbage meant to make him look town and fool people into townreading him and agreeing with him based on the size of his post and the amount of links. Dino is scum, ProHawk is town, and more people need to get on the same page and stop derpwagoning based off of tryhard scum's say so.

[Bulbazak]

He townread Sonic up until the cop claim and then put him at L-1.

Yes, because I'm sure every scum in his right mind thinks this is a good idea.

[Bulbazak]

dino was doing PbPA. According to something i read somewhere by someone in some site, PbPA usually isn't good

Well, when literally every post fits the fact that he's provided nothing this entire game but fluff, sheeping, and deflection, I'd say there exists a pattern.

So...not true, cheap reason, and buzz word. Got it.

You haven't yet explained what caused you to flip-flop on your Fenix read, Bulba.

And I'm not going to. How does that make you feel?

[Bulbazak]

@Bulba: I wouldn't say there was any outrage or emotion behind 'explain yourself Fenix', haha.

Telling someone to "explain yourself" is a way to make it appear like you're scumhunting. Actual town would have had a more pointed question. Asking someone to explain themselves is vague and noncommittal, and it shows that you're not interested in the answers or figuring that person out as much as you are in putting in the appearance of questioning them.

I believe I agreed that Sonic was being scummy, but A. this makes sense under the lens of him trying to avoid the NK, and B. it's idiotic to vote an un-cc'd cop claim. If you'd like to show me how that's inconsistent, go ahead.

I never said it was inconsistent. I said it was a very convenient stance to take.

His 'points' are nothing new and his mollie fight early on was utter BS.

I can see how he'd be concerned about Mollie. As for no original points, that's BS, as he was the first to push Shos and provide reasons to vote Jackel.

Here's the problem with your issues with me, Bulba. If I stay in the lines of common consensus so much, why, as scum, would I tunnel ProHawk, defend shos, defend Jackel, etc etc? Your summary of my behaviour is inconsistent.

First, I only said that you stayed in the lines of common consensus when it came to Sonic. That had nothing to do with your overall behavior. Second, and in order: As scum, it's your job to push a mislynch, but to stay off of lynches that can point back to you and get you killed. The ProHawk lynch is either A.) not going to happen and is therefore safe or B.) it will be pushed through by town at the last minute, and no one will think to look at you, either because it will be a deadline wagon or because you pushed it in the first place and they are expecting scum somewhere in the middle of the wagon. As for Shos, yes, you were the first one to say the wagon was bad, before it even became a wagon. But again, a good scum player learns to recognize which wagons they should stay away from, and Shos is the definition of an easy wagon, and one that would be extremely dangerous for scum. The same goes for Jackel, although it is not true that you defended him. You actually took your sweet time coming out with a town read, and then, it was only conditionally. You fence sat on that read until everyone else had voiced their opinion, and then you agreed that it would be unwise to lynch him.

A. Deflection. As in, every time I suspect him, he either goes and says "Oh, but mollie's done that more than I have" which isn't even true, or "You're gonna have to stop saying the same thing about me", which is just dumb.

Of your three accusations of deflection, one was him bantering with Mollie early game, and the other two are him telling you that you're tunneling and to essentially screw yourself. That's not deflection. That's confidence. Learn what a term means before you misuse it.

B. Then I would say that your defence of Fenix holds no ground and if you think he's town, might wanna say why and not let him get lynched.

Nope. Not gonna tell you. Now accuse me of deflection.

It's funny how I predicted this wouldn't be a very case-y game, and now you go and scumread me due to my case. If you don't like cases, just say tl;dr and don't read it. But cases aren't scummy like people like to think.

I never said I don't like cases or that cases or scummy. All I said was that your case is fake and is meant to make you look more town and to fool others into mislynching ProHawk. As I pointed out, your "case" contains zero actual analysis and is just you quoting or linking a post while making a comment, mostly saying fluff, which is a non-reason to vote somebody.

[Bulbazak]

as I was saying I would never call what she does derp. there is often a method to her madness. so why the discredit?

In all of my experience with DGB, she's always been a huge liability to the town, normally resulting in a large amount of mislynches led by her and/or a town loss. Three examples where she was town: 1.) In Voided's nightless Mountainous game, she led, as town, every single mislynch. 2.) As Serene in NY 165, she claimed masons with a bulletproof town and then later turned on him. Town couldn't trust the hydra for the rest of the game, which distracted them from the scum, allowing for a scum win. 3.) In Ikaruga Mafia, she ended up tunneling strongly on town and ended up handing the scum team the game.

So, no Mollie, this is not a discredit. This is a reality. DGB is known for derp tunneling, and if I didn't have such a strong townread on her, I would not be opposed to policy lynching her for the lols. Heck, I still wouldn't object to her lynch.

[Bulbazak]

also the more I think about it the more I am really not liking your prohawk townread.

What don't you like?

[Bulbazak]

Why not?

[Bulbazak]

I may be wrong, but by looking at my role, I have the feeling that a lot of the roles in this game are non-normal, or bastard. My claim of one shot miller actually fits in more thematically than sonic's claim.

I see your point, but you're wrong.

@ bulba - I have a few games with prohawk both forum games and skype. he is far more assertive and aggressive than this. I am a heavy heavy meta player and to me if he is town (and I am trying to give him the benefit of the doubt) and to me this is very atypical of his town game so i wondering what the hell you are basing your read on.

A little bit of this. A little bit of that. I may explain once I have some food in me.

[Bulbazak]

On 'explain yourself':

No, I actually want him to explain himself. He has yet to, thus my vote remains. First it was fake outrage and now it's for appearance?

First, those terms are not incompatible with each other. Second, it absolutely was for show, because if you wanted Fenix to explain something, you would have been very specific about what you wanted him to explain. Saying "explain yourself" essentially boils down to you seeing a behavior that can be called scummy and then calling attention to it in a general noncommittal way in an effort to look town.

On mollie:

I can't see why he would've been concerned with mollie at that point in the game.

Anybody who's played with Mollie would be concerned about her.

On original points:

That's bullshit. He was the first to vote shos, but with no reasoning. You were the first to question shos and Nazarene was the first to actually push him. That vote means nothing.

Rereading that early section of the game, and considering that ProHawk continued to push Shos, meaning the vote wasn't RVS, I'd say that naked vote carried a lot of weight and meaning.

However, it's all predicated on the idea that ProHawk is town and I'm scum pushing a townsperson.

Nope. My case has nothing to do with my ProHawk read.

Also your comments on the ProHawk wagon are inane: EVERY wagon is either A. Not going to happen and therefore safe, or B. Going to be pushed through by town later on. So what you're telling me is anyone who starts pushing a wagon is scum?

Nope. One of the key aspects to playing scum is learning which wagons to push and which not to push. Some wagons are more dangerous to scum than others. Funny that you're trying to dismiss that fact when its basic mafia theory.

Furthermore

, you claim that I called the shos wagon a bad one (in response to Nazarene, mind you) before it happened because it was something I'd want to stay away from. Yet AT THE SAME TIME, you're saying that I'm voting ProHawk for being an easy target. This makes no sense.

I did not say that whatsoever. Shos was an easy wagon. Heck, that he seemed to, as you said, be trying to draw votes should have made it obvious that he was a very dangerous wagon to be on as scum. It was very easy to vote Shos, same as it was very easy to vote Guille. Both made what appeared to be super scummy moves, making them easy wagons. ProHawk, however, is not an easy wagon. What I said you were doing was using non-reasons, i.e. easy to fabricate reasons, to push him. Your whole case on him revolves around "fluff", not that you ever explain said fluff. You just say fluff and then whip the rest of the mob into a frenzy. Along with lurking, that's a very easy reason to push a wagon and requires zero commitment. ProHawk as a player required more of an effort to get lynched than Shos, Guille, or Sonic, but when it comes down to it, you're using those easy non-reason cases to push said lynch.

And on jackel, 221 is where I started defending him. This was after 3 players had already voted him.

True, but that was after you had asked Nazerene for his read and then fence sat like crazy.

On deflection:

Like hell that was banter, he responded to my telling him he'd produced nothing by trying to tell everyone that mollie had also produced nothing, and then voted her. And he was blatantly wrong.

His response about Mollie was not to you but Mollie. Given their history, this makes it banter. And if he voted her, then that meant he was scumreading her, which even if he was talking to you, would point to that not being deflection and an actual scumread.

Why would you not explain your townread?

Because I feel like it.

Are you townreading him solely because I'm scumreading him?

Nope, just like I'm not townreading ProHawk simply because you're scumreading him.

His 'points' are nothing new and his mollie fight early on was utter BS.

I can see how he'd be concerned about Mollie. As for no original points, that's BS, as he was the first to push Shos and provide reasons to vote Jackel.

I forgot the 2nd part. Cause I mean this...
this isn't even true...
You call this (296) reasons to vote jackel?

No. I call that a reason to vote Shos. This is his reason for voting Jackel.

Read his ISO again, Bulba. Your townreads on both him and Fenix are completely unfounded.

I don't think I've given all the reasons why I'm townreading them, but I assure you, they're not unfounded.

I want to reiterate that you're pretty much voting me out of
1. Gut, and
2. Your townread on ProHawk, which is weak as hell.

1.) I haven't been gut reading you since I made the case on you. This is a legitimate scumread.
2.) My read on ProHawk has nothing to do with why I'm voting you, and if you think it did, you should either be accusing me of being scum chainsaw defending ProHawk or scum WKing ProHawk. The fact that you're doing neither is far more telling, as it shows cognitive dissonance.

In all of my experience with DGB, she's always been a huge liability to the town, normally resulting in a large amount of mislynches led by her and/or a town loss. Three examples where she was town: 1.) In Voided's nightless Mountainous game, she led, as town, every single mislynch. 2.) As Serene in NY 165, she claimed masons with a bulletproof town and then later turned on him. Town couldn't trust the hydra for the rest of the game, which distracted them from the scum, allowing for a scum win. 3.) In Ikaruga Mafia, she ended up tunneling strongly on town and ended up handing the scum team the game.

HOLY DEMOTIVATION BATMAN

Please someone NK me

UNVOTE:

Here. I'm not voting anyone anymore. Lynch whoever the F you want.

Get over yourself. You've played with me before, and this is not the first time I've expressed this opinion. You didn't throw a hissy fit then. Why are you throwing one now?

I'd believe multi-cop over no sane cop.

No one said anything about an insane cop.

@bulb: you gonna talk to me or jsut vote me?

I'm not voting you atm. Did you want to talk to me?

Wtf is this reasoning? ^

Solid town reasoning.

Bulb may yell no, but I simply do not like what he's done so far. If I'm wrong he can freely yell at me all game long.

You're wrong, and this vote is stupid. You're siding with someone who is scum and didn't actually make a case containing any analysis on someone who is town and just provided analysis out of the wazoo. Out of the two, which sounds more like scumhunting to you?

[Bulbazak]

I'm not sure how successful we'd be trying to break the setup, as it seems to be designed in a way to throw us off. I am, however, thinking that scum probably have 1-2 godfathers on their team, with 1 being limited in the case of multiple. I'm definitely not going to blindly play Follow the Cop.

[Bulbazak]

I'm not sure how successful we'd be trying to break the setup, as it seems to be designed in a way to throw us off. I am, however, thinking that scum probably have 1-2 godfathers on their team, with 1 being limited in the case of multiple. I'm definitely not going to blindly play Follow the Cop.

what about muli-cop/cop insanitie(s) or even backups?

do you think this could be a thinly viled "basic" game (ie, cop+doc vs goon+PR+PR) and then a jumble of random stuff to make it interesting?

what about the idea of no VT and everyone is a PR game?

Most of this has occurred to me. There was a reason I made a reference to "There is No Doctor", as I think there may be multiple cops and that Mastin may have made them almost useless just to have fun with us. Anything is possible.

[Bulbazak]

May I interest you in a policy lynch?

If no one will lynch Dino-scum, I will consider a policy lynch. Get it going.

On a related sidenote, Saurus's response feel like they're dipping toward wordage over meaningful rebuttals.

Trust that.

[Bulbazak]

@Dino: If you think that my sole reason for voting you is because you are voting ProHawk, then yes, you should absolutely be questioning your townread of me and even start scumreading me.

@Everyone else: I never said I would switch to a policy lynch right this second. If we get really close to deadline, like 36-24 hours close, and my preferred wagon is not viable, then I will absolutely consider compromising. This should not be surprising at all.

<<< Uhh... *points to the deadline in large text*...yeah. >>>

[Bulbazak]

I was under the impression it was because of the ProHawk thing along with the gutscumread you've stated you had on me multiple times. I think you've managed to convince yourself that my actions have scum motivation and this came from the original gutread and the fact that my wording sometimes sounds fake.
I also think your ProHawk townread sucks and if you weren't townreading him I'd be fine in your book.

That's not how reads work. A gut read means that I noticed something off, although I can't for the life of me figure out what it is at the moment. My case is less the result of me looking for scumminess from you and more calling it out when it happened. I've been known to waffle on gut reads for a lot longer, and they don't always stay at the same level. This is just you trying to further discredit my read on you. And no, my ProHawk read still has nothing to do with why I'm scumreading you. I'd have had a problem with your IIoA no matter who you used it on. Quit trying to strawman my argument.

Why aren't we lynching guille again?

I felt the wagon was too easy at the time, although I wasn't opposed to it. I'm still not if you want to swing a wagon in that direction.

[Bulbazak]

IIoA was in reference to your case, yes. There was no actual analysis to it. And saying that is not a discredit. It's a legitimate reason to find your case to be full of crap and to think you are scum.

[Bulbazak]

You responded to my accusations of said fluffing by saying mollie had also done nothing, which was a lie.

This is a lie.

The presence of any reasoning in your ISO starts at about 605 in which you misrep like crazy and start a conspiracy theory about counterclaims.

Point out the misreps. That was not a conspiracy theory, but rather, solid analysis. Stop trying to discredit it.

And I'm not sure how something can be blatant without being direct. Wanna stop misrepping and strawmanning me?

Misrepping AND strawmanning? Wow. You must be something special. Tell me, how exactly is he strawmanning you, or did you just look through the list of mafia jargon and picked something that looked nice?

I need to remember to look through Mollie's ISO during the night phase...

[Bulbazak]

Unvote

Vote Guille2015

[Bulbazak]

bulba did the same discrediting to me right after mastina's new york game where I correctly pegged him as scum. just ignore him and plz play cos you are not being helpful and THAT looks kind of scummy cos you have thicker skin than that.

Thought about this for awhile and realized how big a load of crap it was. My next game with you after Manaical was Chain of Command, where I called you paranoid and said I preferred to deal with your other head. We ended up arguing for awhile before I attempted to reach out to you. It was after this that I started building a base line to read your town game, which has a lot more fire than your scum game. Guess what I'm not seeing in this game?

Oh, and I looked back to see what was going on when you started the fight between DGB and me, and it seems that I had just started ramping up my push on Dino. It wasn't until after you accused me of discrediting DGB (which was false) that attention started to be drawn off of Dino and onto myself due to the offhanded comment, and it was at this point that Dino jumped in and started strawmanning my case in a further attempt to discredit me. You singlehandedly weakened my Dino-scum push by drawing attention to an offhand comment I made to Eddie which could be paraphrased as "Don't worry about it. DGB does this all the time.".

And one more thing: I was town in Chain of Command, and you do get paranoid. A lie of omission is still a lie.

[Bulbazak]

EBWOP: Dang it post preview, you didn't show me that Mollie had already responded...

[Bulbazak]

you were actively discrediting me in that game. period. end of story.

I don't consider calling you paranoid a discredit, but whatever.

I was in that game. guess what I am not here.

I'm confused. Are we talking about paranoia or something else?

^ erm...wat? you did discredit dgb that is why she is saying she is moping around being useless. own it.

I think we have 2 different views of discrediting. I see it as a scum tactic to weaken a push, which is not what I was trying to do with DGB. All I said at the time was that she tends to derpwagon, which was my effort to get Eddie to shift his focus off of DGB's tunneling. I know him, and he would get obsessed and paranoid about it, something which I was hoping to avoid.

and no1 was voting you so how exactly was attention being drawn off of math thing and onto you? and it is citing specific instances where you said that dgb's play was shit is explicitly discrediting her. math thing is discrediting your case not you as a player while you are discrediting dgb as a player. there is a difference.

I was getting it confused with what it eventually led to. Again, saying that DGB tends to derpwagon or tunnel is not my definition of discrediting, and it was an aside to a friend in an effort to get him to focus on other things. I didn't think it was worth commenting on, and if it was, it should have stopped with your experience of her play. It was you calling it a discredit that got to me, and that whole conversation and what stemmed out of it was a humongous distraction at a very important juncture.

tell me how this is prohawk's town game.

His statements when examined in context tend to have a little bit of weight behind them, and he's looking at motivation and intent, which is real scumhunting, not fake.

Somehow I feel like Bulba pulling 3 different games, links, and analysis isn't an "offhand comment to Eddie".
Somehow I feel like you don't get to blame someone else for a conflict that you had.

This conversation is literally the dumbest possible one we could be having this close to LyLo, FFS.

Mollie, this is scum posting, as he's simply trying to stoke the fire.

I underlined the misreps for you. He came up with a conspiracy theory in which 3 people are asking for a CC, which is simply not true. This is misrepping. Not ONCE did I say that I was calling for a counterclaim today.

Neither of those are misreps. One is a conclusion based on analysis. The other states that Sonic's partners were calling for a counter claim, which, again, is a theory based on analysis. The only way that is a misrep is if you're scum, and that was not what you were doing. Is that the case?

3. It's strawmanning because he keeps fighting against the idea that DGB, guille and I are asking for a counterclaim and rolefishing, which I am not (can't really speak for them).

Frankly, you have no idea what the terms you're using mean. Just stop. Unless he's trying to summarize your argument as the above in an effort to defeat you, it's not strawmanning.

Bulba, give me a SUMMARY of your point on mathdino.
Three lines of text.
You can do it.
-Tier

Dino's posting has been for show, and there is zero genuine scumhunting. His case on ProHawk contained zero analysis and focused on an easy non-reason that he could push: fluff, which he just repeated over and over without explaining. Since being on the defensive, he's resorted to buzzwords to try to push or discredit lines of reasoning, and he's tried to strawman my case by saying that I'm only scumreading him for his vote on ProHawk, which is not true.

Hey Bulb, why the vote on Guille?

Compromise. You have 18 hours. What are you going to do?

[Bulbazak]

which was my effort to get Eddie to shift his focus off of DGB's tunneling. I know him, and he would get obsessed and paranoid about it

Crazy talk.

He went after Serene with a scum mason theory in a normal game. This is not crazy. He was close to obsessed.

I'm not tunneling.

Then what do you call it?

DGB

Is probably town. More concerned on who does scummy things than what others think of her.

What about that hissy fit she threw a little bit ago? That looks like she's very much concerned about what others think, which is odd, because she usually doesn't.

Unvote

Vote Ika

[Bulbazak]

She gave up when I said that I've never been impressed by her scumhunting abilities. That's actually very atypical for DGB, and she's actually heard me express that opinion before and was never phased by it.

[Bulbazak]

She gave up when I said that I've never been impressed by her scumhunting abilities. That's actually very atypical for DGB, and she's actually heard me express that opinion before and was never phased by it.

that isn't what happened. you said she was a terrible player cited games where apparently she led town losses. then you wanted to pl her.

I only cited those games

after

you accused me of discrediting her. My only comment before that was telling Eddie that she tends to derpwagon, which was my way of telling him not to worry about it. As for the policy lynch, I did make the comment that she's never a bad pl, but that was not my intent when she asked about a pl. I thought she was going to vote Istott, who is a much more preferable pl given the circumstances. I personally think self-voting is horribad play, and the thought never crossed my mind when talking to her.

and you didn't say i was paranoid again you said I was a terrible player so you would only talk to nacho.

I said that you tended to eat paranoia flakes and that I felt I would be able to better reason with Nacho. I had zero reason to call you terrible, compared to my every reason to call you paranoid. Frankly, you didn't leave that much of an impression on me after Maniacal.

and your vote on ika is going nowhere so why the fuck are you trying to ensure that a no lynch happens rather than lynch voided? you have no case on guille and it was a shitty cw to the 1 building on voided.

I'm not sure how I feel about a Voided lynch atm, because I've been steadily townreading her. Compare that to Ika, which is a solid null due to minimal content. Out of the two, I'd much prefer the second lynch. As for a no lynch scenario, I'm mulling over both possibilities, although, I'm becoming less inclined to see how no lynching would be bad for town in this particular game state. Part of me actually thinks we'd come out stronger for it.

[Bulbazak]

You know, if Mollie, DGB, and others think that they need a flip and are starting to worry about my alignment, they could always just lynch me.

[Bulbazak]

@Voided, ProHawk, & Sonic: Vote Ika now!

@Mollie, DGB, and anyone else: If you kinda think that I might/could/should be scum, then quit waffling on it and freaking vote me! Don't place a hypothetical read on me based on what Voided may or may not flip, which you may or may not back off of the next day anyway. If you think my flip will help you find scum, then stop posturing and vote me.

I think this game is close to being solved via PoE. I currently have it narrowed down to the group of {Mollie, DGB, Shos, Ika, Dino, Voided}. Dino is definitely scum, and I'm leaning town on Mollie and Voided. DGB has thrown me off with her atypical behavior. Shos and Ika are good places to look going forward. Everyone else should not be touched.

[Bulbazak]

You should move your vote somewhere where it will do some good.

[Bulbazak]

Why don't you lynch him for it?

[Bulbazak]

Stop rolefishing DGB.

@Mollie: We have 2 on Ika so far. With you, it's 3. ProHawk, Sonic, and Guille will join, making it 6. I think we could get that last vote easily.

[Bulbazak]

Also your "rolefishing" accusations are frivolous. We are one hour from deadline.

And you want to force a claim. I don't think I'm far off if a claim is your primary concern.

[Bulbazak]

Riight...

[Bulbazak]

I mean this game did make it through review.

Given that Mini Themes don't have to be reviewed, Mastin has said that this game is her own personal playground, and that no reviewers are listed in the OP, I'm going to say there was no review for this game.

<<< This is correct. I direct you to the flavorful opening of the game for the stance this game takes to reviews. >>>

[Bulbazak]

How can you possibly construe scum motivation from Dino's ISO?

Did you not read my response to your other head, or are you two just not communicating?

[Bulbazak]

I pointed out that he's not looking for scum motivation or intent and that his posts are created to look good, rather than scumhunt.

[Bulbazak]

I love how Aegor yelled at me for thinking about a policy lynch and then proceeds to pl Voided at deadline.

P-edit: Yes, because scum obviously can't make or fake cases.

[Bulbazak]

Aegor, what makes you seriously think that scum can't present a case on someone? I'm curious. Do you think all scum players just sit on their hands and hope something happens? Because you seem to be presenting all scum as drooling morons instead of players who have to try to manipulate the town into lynching each other. How did you think that happened? The magical mafia fairy?

[Bulbazak]

Dino, you better kill me tonight, because I'm nailing your scummy butt tomorrow.

[Bulbazak]

Yep. What are you going to do about it? You refused to lynch me when you had the chance.

[Bulbazak]

No, I'm saying that Dino-scum pushed a player for an easy non-reason and that his "case" contained absolutely zero analysis. All it did was look convincing, but upon closer inspection, there was no substance. At no point have I suggested that such a move is incompetent. In fact, it'd be the opposite. You're the one who's saying that Dino is not skilled enough to fake a case.

[Bulbazak]

No, I'm saying that Dino-scum pushed a player for an easy non-reason and that his "case" contained absolutely zero analysis. All it did was look convincing, but upon closer inspection, there was no substance. At no point have I suggested that such a move is incompetent. In fact, it'd be the opposite. You're the one who's saying that Dino is not skilled enough to fake a case.

your word salad had no substance dino's thoughts had a organic progression of flow.

eta: no the fuck he didn't.

*twitch*

[Bulbazak]

Bulbazak's Hierarchy of Reads (D2)

Town

ProHawk
Nazerene
Eddie Fenix
Pirate Mollie
Istott

Null/Town

Guille2015

Null

Sonic Boom
Ika
DrippingGoofball

Scum

Mathdino

Vote Mathdino

Also, any cop claims need to include whether or not you've been told you're sane.

[Bulbazak]

@Sonic: If you were trying to figure out your sanity, why didn't you investigate Istott?

[Bulbazak]

VOTE: istott

I'm assuming this is for the miller claim?

[Bulbazak]

You don't think Mollie is town?

[Bulbazak]

I do. Claiming a guilty on Mollie and then turning around to say that he must be insane is not a pro-scum move. It essentially turns him into policy lynch material, which is bad for a scum wincon. He'd have been better off claiming an innocent on a town player and leaving sanity ambiguous. The only way this makes sense for Sonic-scum is if you also believe Mollie is scum, which you've given zero indication.

Plus, I believe Sonic-town would investigate Mollie for those reasons.

[Bulbazak]

Is there a reason other than the claim why you think he is scum, or are you going after the easy lynch?

[Bulbazak]

Mollie, you didn't answer my last question.

[Bulbazak]

what would be the positive return for going after lynchbait this early in the game?

The lynch bait in this game are easy policy lynches. Nobody would look twice if scum stuck a vote there.

ffs, go after strong town, shit up the game and make it unreadable for town on d2. that is pretty standard scum play.

I don't think there's such a thing as standard scum play. You've seen enough variation to know this. Why are you pushing the opposite?

Also, what is the scum advantage to claiming 1-shot miller over regular miller?

[Bulbazak]

I get that, but then I remember it's Metal, so I can see how that can happen.

[Bulbazak]

He also forgot Istott was a claimed miller.

[Bulbazak]

Lmao I really forgot that jackal was replaced by isott lol

then why did you not view jackal to test your views out if you did not get a sanity on your role after voided flipped sane cop?

Can I just say that I didn't even think of using a "non universally town read" one shot miller to test my sanity?

I rather use mollie towniness to test it better

But regardless, you should have expected a guilty from him. So why didn't you consider him as a test of your sanity?

Let's lynch real scum. Guille claimed jailkeeper but there is a flipped doctor already. That means town has more than one protective role (bad for scum) or... He is the scum jailkeeper.

Possibly, but I'm not going to put him under serious consideration unless I see evidence of a vig.

I do. Claiming a guilty on Mollie and then turning around to say that he must be insane is not a pro-scum move. It essentially turns him into policy lynch material, which is bad for a scum wincon. He'd have been better off claiming an innocent on a town player and leaving sanity ambiguous. The only way this makes sense for Sonic-scum is if you also believe Mollie is scum, which you've given zero indication.

Plus, I believe Sonic-town would investigate Mollie for those reasons.

Sonic-scum would probably think that he was screwed anyways, so he would go directly to the angle of pleading insanity. Don't you think?

But if he thought he was screwed anyway, why not just leave the result as a guilty and try to get an extra mislynch out of it? The thought process does not track coming from scum Sonic.

Bulbasak

why do you think Eddie is town?

He's at least asked some serious questions that show that he's trying to figure out who scum is, instead of just coasting, which is what scum Eddie does.

I'm not impressed by Ika's read list.

[Bulbazak]

Maybe, but not right this second. I'd like to spend some today sorting Ika and DGB. One, if not both, are scum, and I just need to figure it out. Sonic will still be around by the end of the day.

[Bulbazak]

*some time today

[Bulbazak]

@bulb: i aim to displease, wanna talk about my disspaointing reads, i should eb around in a few hrs.

Let's start with how lazy they are, how you repeatedly try to stay hands off while lamenting that you can't engage with anyone (or dowright refusing to engage), that you have no real townreads on anyone (and your actual townreads can be PL'd at a moment's notice), and how your Sonic Boom read is BS, since it revolves around how you always scumread Titus, even though Titus hasn't been posting in this game. It all seems rather contrived to me.

[Bulbazak]

dgb worries me a bit but bulba is giving me much bigger niggles. how he is obtaining his reads doesn't make sense to me. I don't think the 2 are scum together. <----- still trying to work them out.

What exactly don't you like?

I think shos was universally townread hence the nk.

I'm pretty sure Shos was lynch bait for most of d1.

[Bulbazak]

What exactly don't you like?

I feel like the arguments you are using against dino are the same kind of arguments you used in maniacal street. word salad.

I don't see this at all. Is it a style thing, or is there something specific about the arguments? If so, please point them out.

do you think scum have a day role cop?

I really haven't considered the possibility of day roles. Role cop would not be a bad role for scum to have in this game, though.

cos otherwise why do YOU think he was nked?

No clue. I thought it was a weird choice. The best I can come up with is that scum were drawn to his panicking over a possible no lynch at the end of d1.

pirate mollie bleeds town.

Anything else? Or are you just going to state the obvious?

[Bulbazak]

VOTE: Sonic Boom

I do not know why this day has not ended yet.

-A

Because this day has just started. There's a lot that still needs to be taken care of.

Ika's post can essentially be summed up as "I'm not going to explain crap. Now watch as I rant about something that is a non-issue in this game and ignore the larger question of why I'm scumreading a player that doesn't exist.".

[Bulbazak]

titus slot - this one is more biassed if anything mostly b/c i scum read titus every time but she has not been on skype or anywhere else, plus a policy on titus slots are always good

This is your Titus read. At no point do you mention that the entire read is policy. You say that you are willing to PL her, yes, but that has nothing to do with the read itself. In order for you to have a scum read on a player, said player has had to have been posting and participating. Titus has not. When I asked you about this, you decided to rant about your history with Titus, which is not an answer. You put the slot squarely in scum, which meant something must have pinged, and it couldn't have been Titus. I asked you what, and you've refused to answer. This read is fake, and you are backing it up with some policy BS, which does not track with your original placement of the read and wording.

@bulb: i aim to displease, wanna talk about my disspaointing reads, i should eb around in a few hrs.

Let's start with how lazy they are, how you repeatedly try to stay hands off while lamenting that you can't engage with anyone (or dowright refusing to engage), that you have no real townreads on anyone (and your actual townreads can be PL'd at a moment's notice), and how your Sonic Boom read is BS, since it revolves around how you always scumread Titus, even though Titus hasn't been posting in this game. It all seems rather contrived to me.

i could basicly sum up your entire agrument with your own sentance that its entirly YPOV. yes ita argubly a copout answer but if you really want me to wall agrue with you i can. so im going to be point blank with that.

This is not an answer to what I asked. If you wanted to start engaging with me to help me to figure you out, I'd expect you to take me to task and question me on said manner, or provide counterexamples to my points. Instead, you gave an answer that can be summarized as



At no point did you actually address anything I said, instead choosing to deflect by telling me it was only my opinion and then ignoring the points entirely.

seriously, you want to sort me out, you can start by not inciting me into a fit fight with you.

Except interaction is the best way to sort somebody, something that you are trying your best to avoid. And now, when I put you under some pressure, you actually start threatening me. This is the same BS you pulled on Kuribo in Binding of Isaac, which only served to provide a smokescreen to keep anyone from actually questioning you.

[Bulbazak]

tbh nobody has engadde me in the manner that works with me.

Oh boo hoo. I don't care if the mode of engagement does or does not work for you, if someone is trying to talk to you, you talk back. Otherwise, it's looks like you're trying to avoid all lines of inquiry, because that's exactly what you're doing.

most o the day was circular arguments about thing that dont intrest me.

Then try to move the conversation along in a way that does.

yesterday i did reach out to you but you seems to have disregarded it, if you like i can even quote myself where i did but you seemed to ahve not done so

Quotes please.

approach me with a theory of something. not some attack. i just reply in kind.

I needed to sort you. I wanted you to question me on my accusations, not dodge them.

everyone is PL material, no matter what. you go a problem with it, thats all on your falut

I really have a problem with this mindset, as it looks like you're keeping all of your options open.

maybe its bc eddie is soft CC sonic right now
maybe its bc prohawk could be some PR that i dont want to be outing for the world to knwo
maybe its bc the more someon says "i want to die" the less likely its gonna happen
maybe its b/c im running a shitty ass fucking slayers gambit.

Why would you say any of this?!!?

We really need Guille to tell us who he targeted before we proceed. I think I almost have the entire team narrowed down.

[Bulbazak]

To be fair, I kinda had my hands full at that point with trying to lynch Dino-scum and the whole DGB fiasco.

[Bulbazak]

Why would you say any of this?!!?

ill answer this one though mostly bc its simple:

i warned you that i have reasons why i act in closed manner. you decided to push me. so knwo what i decided to do. give you exactly what you wanted, the simpile truth of what i see.

you are so focused on your loigc and stupid stuff that you seem to ignore the most blindingly obvious thing that i see in such a stuble manner

thats why i dont say anything most of the time and play close to the heart b/c my knowlage that i get and find half of the time is detremental to out.

pedit: ?

YOU. DO. NOT. OUT. PRS. EVER. Not even to massage your own ego. And your thought process is not so elevated, because you would have at least tried to use what you saw to figure out who scum were via PoE, and you would have at least tried to help me derail the ProHawk wagon. My problem is that you haven't been trying to figure out who scum are, and that everything you've done looks like you did it simply to get by.

Question: Did you figure out Shos was a PR too?

[Bulbazak]

Don't.

[Bulbazak]

Eddie, give me a reads list while you're here.

[Bulbazak]

Yes, I am fully aware that I have not given my target. But since My target did not kill shos, I felt that I either targeted ScumPR or town.

What good would revealing my target be at the outset when I can use that information to test if my target is scum or town or null based on they're response, or if any other player has information that they should not have.

I think I should withhold my target, because I still think I can get more out of it and because I have a feeling that that information would harm town.

So much wrong with this... 1.) Why would you deny town this information? What happens if you die? That's one less piece of information town has to work with. Also, that means we don't have enough information to accurately read you, especially when there are some of us that are not confident about your alignement. 2.) How can you reaction test a target when you don't tell them you targeted them? That makes no sense. Night activity alone means very little, especially when you have nothing to put it into context. All you should know given your role is that your target couldn't do anything. There's no way to determine if they could in the first place or if they even attempted, and you still can't come up with that information regardless of what you do in the thread. If you are looking to gauge reactions, you should be looking in the thread, and all of this is impossible if you don't say who you targeted. That action is not going to produce reactions. Period. Let's not even get into the fact that the only way you can test reactions is by announcing your target, and that would allow everyone in the thread to gauge reactions, which would lead to better scumhunting. 3.) How in the world would revealing who you targeted harm town? Information is good. It helps town figure things out. Withholding information is what harms town, especially when you're an outed PR that can give us an insight into the big picture.

eddie what is wrong with u

Literally half the players are missing from his "reads" list.

What's wrong with Eddie is that he got a scum role PM.

This player gets figured out by day 3

I'm trying to figure her out today. Why not do that instead of ending the day early with a Sonic lynch? You can still lynch him today. You'll just take a little extra time to figure the rest of the game out.

Also, why do you have such a strong townread on Guille? Is it only because of the JK claim?

@Ika: Thoughts on DGB?

[Bulbazak]

fyi: just to bug you, i'm pretty sure i have your role pegged.

Good for you.

whats your imput on the NK?

Surprised. I thought Shos was lynchbait and likely to still be alive.

3) Hypothetically speaking, If you are a town rolecop, and you discover a town watcher. Would you reveal that information?

No, because in that situation you have information that would be harmful to town. As a JK, you have no idea what effect your action has, meaning that you don't have any information that could harm town. All you could do is tell us who you kept, which can be used for PoE in later days.

Also, the day's almost over, and you owe us an action.

I'm not scum. istott's town as previously established. DGB, eh, null, can't really read her. Fenix is probably scum if you end up being town. Nazarene, eh, could also go either way, more likely to be town.

More specificity please.

Scum posting.

Where'd 3 cops come from?

That'd be me. I claimed d1.

[Bulbazak]

Did you get anything from your reaction test?

[Bulbazak]

Also, if there's interest, tweaking things a bit (like, say, giving scum fakeclaims), I was wondering if there'd be interest in a sequel to this game, as a large theme. I have the setup more or less finalized and most of the finer points figured out, but I want to make sure I actually have a good crowd who'd be willing to

play

it.

It'd be the same but not the same at all, in that it'd still be classified as a bastard, it'd still be meant to be played casually and not seriously, and would still be meant for the fun of it. With what I have planned, I think it'll be even more entertaining than this game was, so long as you go in with the mindset that the game's explicitly not going to be balanced.

It depends on what my game load looks like, but other than that, I'm in. I've always enjoyed a good Mastin game.

any advice on my play anyone? (i'm sure bulbazak has something to say here)

Nope. I'm good.

Also, I want to ask you as players: I'm seeing pretty good feedback for the game, which is a good sign, but there's something I want to know. I know that, for ME, sitting in the mod's chair, this game was so much of a blast to have been a part of that I'd definitely call it a Game of the Year contender, but I'm biased as the creator of the game and having sit from a point of omnipotence. So was it just good-good, or was it amazingly-awesome-good? (GOTY contender.)

I found it to be very enjoyable game, and it was one that I looked forward to posting in. It was definitely worth being my first game back from hiatus. I don't think it's GOTY, though, as I've played in much better games this year.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go mope in the corner for having figured out Nazerene and Sonic and then backed off.

[Bulbazak]

My game load's looking fine now. I'm keeping the pre-in. I might talk to Eddie and see if we want to hydra or stay separate for this one.