Mini 462: Just another game of Mafia... over

[Nekka-Lucifer]

@Khel: You can use the EBWOP (Edit but with-out post...) when you forget something in mafia games.

Hand banana... He's just confusing, a lost cause, and a failure. I officially stick my vote and will not change till day 2...

[Khelvaster]

Oh...I didn't know that. Thanks.

[hand banana]

nekka: "lost cause, and a failure"

i understand that my strategy may be incomprehensible to you (being confused, naive teenager and all), but "failure" is a little harsh..

ok, before all this turns into shit, let me explain myself thoroughly and step-by-step from the beginning up to this point, since i already achieved some of my goals, and i think it's time to come clean.

i never played with this role i got in live games, so first thing i did, i found a couple of games with this role in them, and i read them. one of these games was "Mini 443 - Tapioca Mafia". in it, the guy with my role did more damage to the town than mafia did.
first night he killed a civilian, and second night he managed to kill the doctor and he also got himself killed by mafia. so, i realized it's a very tough role to play, and it can be very dangerous for town of misplayed. so, my line of thinking is this: in order not to kill a power-role before the day ends i will say whom i'm going to kill. this, of course, needs me to come open and claim right in the first day. (im doing that right now -

i claim vig

). vig can be useful for town, but it can also be very harmful, so i don't think this claim will necessarily damage the town, and i think it won't.
after i decided to do this, i created this strategy: i will leave enough hints for experienced and good players that i'm power-role, but i will act very arrogantly and cocky, and i will put myself in the spotlight from the beginning. by doing this, i wanted to make two kinds of people vote for me: noob townies, and when their number gets around 2 or 3, a couple of scum will join them too, since i will practically be the only one we're discussing. i didn't achieve all of it, but i think it's time to claim before this gets out of hand.

if anyone has any questions for me, i will answer them now.
oh, except nekka's questions. (i'm sorry we play for the same team).

so.. before the day ends, i will say who i want to kill, and i will give that person a chance to claim. of course, if i pick mafia he will know he's got nothing to loose and he will prob. claim cop or a doc just to expose them. in this case, the real cop or doc or whatever SHOULD NOT counterclaim right after. he should wait for the next day. nad i will choose another possible scum to vig.

[ac1983fan]

sorry not posting, first week of summer vacation.
will reread soon, hopefully.

[Khelvaster]

What if the person you name is the real doc or cop...

[hand banana]

i will not kill the person who claims.
after the night, if we don't get a counterclaim, it means that i named a real doc or cop (which i hope i will not do, but it's better to name them that to kill them, like that guy earwig did)

[Jenter Brolincani]

You realise you will almost certainly get NK'd now? We may well not have a doc at all, or a cop for that matter.

[PJ.]

First off, if he is gonna play this, I'm gonna name people and they need to claim game and reveal power roles I want to be more certain then Hand Banana is vig. On top of that if he is gonna go around having power roles claim and such I'd rather have the vig lynched, because that is a terrible strategy. Might as well mas claim and see where that gets us. I'm 100% against this strategy regardless of the townness.

AlSleet, please tell me how I have been Inconsistent. I have been logical and aggressive the entire game. This is twice you have said something false about me. Why are you slandering me?

FoS:AlSleet

[Tarhalindur]

You realise you will almost certainly get NK'd now? We may well not have a doc at all, or a cop for that matter.

Or the mafia could have a roleblocker, in which case you're likely to be RB'ed into oblivion.

[Tarhalindur]

First off, if he is gonna play this, I'm gonna name people and they need to claim game and reveal power roles I want to be more certain then Hand Banana is vig. On top of that if he is gonna go around having power roles claim and such I'd rather have the vig lynched, because that is a terrible strategy. Might as well mas claim and see where that gets us. I'm 100% against this strategy regardless of the townness.

AlSleet, please tell me how I have been Inconsistent. I have been logical and aggressive the entire game. This is twice you have said something false about me. Why are you slandering me?

FoS:AlSleet

What. The. Heck?!

You're asking the town to just out power roles. You're asking us to lynch an uncounterclaimed vig (he may have been playing stupidly, but he is an uncounterclaimed vig). You're asking for a massclaim on day 1 when I see no way that could benefit the town. And you're using an appeal to emotion to accuse AlSleet of using an appeal to emotion (pot, meet kettle much?).

There is no way I'm going to ignore such blatantly scummy behavior without a really good explanation for it.

Vote: Panzerjager

[Falcone]

I was going to write up a semi-long post as a response to hand banana, but his claim made that kind of moot.

I'm still going to respond to this though:

(...) you fit into my definition of scum pretty well (playing just enough so you wouldn't be called lurker, being over causcious, exaggerating when describing your reasons for voting me, etc..)
earlier i said there was 60% chance that at least one of you or Khelvaster are scum.
now i think it's <10% that khel is scum and you are at the 90+ % mark.
thus,

vote: falcone

- The point about playing just enough not to be called a lurker is stupid. You can't determine whether someone is a lurker just by looking at their post count. You also have to take into account the amount of actual content in their posts. I'll usually make one or two posts each day, and try to comment on as many issues as possible in those posts.

- The point about me being overcautious is unjustified to. I make it a point to make clear whom I suspect in a game of mafia, and to always have my vote on the most scummy player (in my opinion), unless I have a good reason not to. I think I did that in this game too.

- And I don't feel I exaggerated when I gave my reasons for voting you The case against you was quite strong, especially your flipflopping about Nekka earlier.

I can't help but notice I have to add OMGUS-behaviour to your resume now...



Anyway, onto hand banana's claim and the "plan" he formulated. Some problems I immediately noticed when reading about your plan:

1. What made you think there wouldn't be any experienced and good players in the mafia to pick up on you hints that you were a power role?
2. As a townie, you should never deliberately act in a way that gets you votes.
3. As a townie, you shouldn't claim when you have only two votes. It makes it too easy for the mafia to gather information about the roles of the other players and thus determine their strategy.
4. Have you considered the possibility of just not using your ability tonight? In general, longer games (in game days) tend to benefit the town.

Having said all that, if no one counterclaims, I'm actually going to believe your claim for the time being. However, I want to make a very important amendment to your plan:

THIS IS IMPORTANT

: If you're a townie, it's terrible strategy to decide on your own who you're going to lynch and force that person to claim. You should let the town decide whether to choose your ability and who to use it on. That way, it's like the town gets an extra lynch, which is great, since lynching is the only way for the town to kill the mafia. Only problem is that we won't know the outcome of the first lynch before determining the second. Therefore, I think it's best to consider "no vig" the default option, only to be deviated from for specific reasons.

In light of all this, I'll

unvote: hand banana

.

[PJ.]

HANDBANANA was the one who suggested he name people. I said mass claim because I figured you'd get the sarcasm because I was going on about how terrible the idea was. I think the claim is bullshit, and uncounterclaimed or not, it doesn't matter. Not every town has a vig especially in Normal mini's. Did you miss the part where I said "I am 100% AGAINST this strategy." I also said if he wants to go around and out power roles. I'd rather have him lynched because Cop/Doc are far more important then vig. Winning with out a vig is easy; winning without a cop or doc is far harder.

[hand banana]

no mass role claim..
other power roles are 100% useful for town. Vig can be, but it's not a great shame if he dies cause he can cause more harm to town then mafia. that's why i will be very causcious.

i'm not going to name more than 1 people per day. if we get a claim i will not kill that guy. and that one would have been the one i would kill without naming, if i haven't revealed myself in he first place. i think it's optimal strategy for my role at this time, but i'm opened for suggestions. as i said earlier it's much better to expose a doc that it is to kill him.
and i believe that there is a doc, it's more basic role than the vig. if mafia shoots at me and i get defended their chances of winning this would be zero.

[PJ.]

EDWOP:

FoS: Tarhilindur

for actually reading my post and then saying that I am confirmed scum.

[PJ.]

HandBanana, that is if we believe the claim.

[Falcone]

Tarhalindur

, I think you misunderstood Panzer's post 132. Which you're not to blame for, because it was worded in a very confusing way.

Also, you made a good point about the possibility of a mafia RB'er. That possibility makes hand banana's decision to claim even worse.

Hand banana

, I urge you to show restraint in using your ability. Frankly, I have my doubts about your judgment about people's alignment from seeing your play so far, even though I think your protown for now.

Everyone

, don't claim just because hand banana is threatening to vig you. If hand banana does decide to kill someone without the support of a considerable number of people, I'll have no qualms whatsoever in lynching him the next day.

[hand banana]

1. What made you think there wouldn't be any experienced and good players in the mafia to pick up on you hints that you were a power role?
2. As a townie, you should never deliberately act in a way that gets you votes.
3. As a townie, you shouldn't claim when you have only two votes. It makes it too easy for the mafia to gather information about the roles of the other players and thus determine their strategy.
4. Have you considered the possibility of just not using your ability tonight? In general, longer games (in game days) tend to benefit the town.

1. nothing. my plan does not work 100%. i hoped i will catch someone. and i did make some conclusions.
2. "never" doesn't really apply well to this game.
3. i planed on claiming from the beginning, and i did when i felt things are getting out of hand, and that nothing else useful can be done.
4. yes i have. i will name one guy. if i get a claim, i will not kill him nor anyone else.

[PJ.]

Alright, fine. Out of curiosity, who would you name?

[hand banana]

Everyone, don't claim just because hand banana is threatening to vig you. If hand banana does decide to kill someone without the support of a considerable number of people, I'll have no qualms whatsoever in lynching him the next day.

you are forgetting that lynch decisions all have scum factor involved in them. anything town declares is influenced by the scum. my decision is 100% pro town.

[hand banana]

Alright, fine. Out of curiosity, who would you name?

i'm not sure yet. if someone else gets voted, i guess it would be falcone, but my vote on him is based on a hunch more that facts, so i would be a little reluctant about naming right now.

[PJ.]

How are we supposed to be certain that you are actually a vig and not a mafia goon that is role fishing?

[Falcone]

4. yes i have. i will name one guy. if i get a claim, i will not kill him nor anyone else.

So you're just going to force one semi-random player to claim, risking to out a power role? And if you happen to name scum, they can just claim whatever and be done with it? That's a positively awful plan.

you are forgetting that lynch decisions all have scum factor involved in them. anything town declares is influenced by the scum. my decision is 100% pro town.

I didn't forget that. I just have more faith in the entire town deciding on a correct lynch/vig kill than in you making that decision on your own, even after taking into account the influence the scum have over the town's decision. Remember, being town doesn't mean you're going to decide correctly. Also, we can't actually be sure you're protown. Giving a possible scum a free nightkill of his choice would be terribly stupid.

[hand banana]

i don't get this.. "free nightkill"??

scum already has a free nightkill.
@panz: mafia will kill someone, i will kill someone, then you'll know.
(unless mafia decides not to kill in order to discredit me and my kill gets to be the only one )

[Falcone]

i don't get this.. "free nightkill"??

scum already has a free nightkill.

That's why giving them an

extra

free nightkill would be disastrous.

@panz: mafia will kill someone, i will kill someone, then you'll know.(unless mafia decides not to kill in order to discredit me and my kill gets to be the only one )

Except that you could still be a Serial Killer...

Anyway, that's more than enough posting for me today. I'll try to comment on some non-hand banana players tomorrow.

[Tarhalindur]

HANDBANANA was the one who suggested he name people. I said mass claim because I figured you'd get the sarcasm because I was going on about how terrible the idea was. I think the claim is bullshit, and uncounterclaimed or not, it doesn't matter. Not every town has a vig especially in Normal mini's. Did you miss the part where I said "I am 100% AGAINST this strategy." I also said if he wants to go around and out power roles. I'd rather have him lynched because Cop/Doc are far more important then vig. Winning with out a vig is easy; winning without a cop or doc is far harder.

I misread your post; to me, it looked like you were actually advocating a mass claim. I sometimes find it difficult to distinguish from text alone between someone using ad absurdum logic to attack a bad plan and someone who's actually advocating the absurd action that his ad absurdum logic would suggest.

However, I still don't like how you seem to be advocating that we lynch an uncounterclaimed vig, and I really don't like your post 138:

EDWOP: FoS: Tarhalindur for actually reading my post and then saying that I am confirmed scum.

Where in my post 134 did you get the impression that I was calling you confirmed scum? I did NOT say that you were confirmed scum, I said that I found your actions in post 132 blatantly scummy (due to a misinterpretation), and asked for an explanation. There's a difference.

Unless you can offer a good explanation for why you claimed that I was calling you "confirmed scum", I think I'll keep my vote.