Mini 456: Ultimatum Mafia - Game Over!

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'd prefer you exposed them now, actually, before we see BM's alignment.

If you don't mind...

I do mind, mind you. I'm not going to distract the town when we are under deadline. I will challenge you tomorrow, and then I'll kill you.

Well, now the voting is essentially done, so I'd also like to hear your reasons before BM's alignment is revealed. I suggest yos and dean give him time to answer.

I will challenge mneme as soon as I can, once all the town decides it is time.

[Stewie]

1. Don't challenge. Nominate.
2. I think it'd be better to get this information

before[/b] BM's alignment is revealed. That way you can't change it once his alignment is revealed.

[mneme]

Albert: is this one of these "Battlemage forced a selflynch and it worked -so well- for him, so I'm going to do the same thing" things?

It's not time until we've actually spent some time bandwagoning and otherwise playing the game before you go harring off on your own, whether you challenge me or anyone else.

And then you let the will of the town have an effect on the game -- because otherwise, you're just helping the scum.

That's how it works.

[mneme]

And yes, what Stewie said. There's no way to "confuse the town" at this point, because the mechanical result is already pre-deterimined.

Albert, the only reason to delay saying your peace at this point is so you can change it to fit the facts, which doesn't really help your case.

[DeanWinchester]

Hmm... Dylan voting to save vandamein has me conviced that Dylan I s scum. I think BM may come up town, but I still agree with his lynch it gives us more info than lynching VD.

Dylan is getting a major pass here. He should at the very least been involved in the debate today. I'm going to suspect anyone that challenges anyone, but Dylan.

Vote: Van Damien

I see know way BM actions could have helped the town.

[Mr Stoofer]

I'd still like to hear Stoofer explain why he thinks battle mage is scum.

I've done this in my posts today: see 315 (under "Secondly"), 325, 329, 330 (pointing out an untruth). I'd quote them all again if he wasn't already dead. Can't you just go back and read them?

I will challenge mneme as soon as I can, once all the town decides it is time.

Battle Mage has just been killed for (amongst other things) challenging without the agreement of the rest of the Town. Don't make the same mistake.

Dylan is getting a major pass here. He should at the very least been involved in the debate today. I'm going to suspect anyone that challenges anyone, but Dylan.

I agree with all of that (though you, DeanWinchester, are a prime candidate for being dylan's scumbuddy). Dylan has not really contributed today, which is surprising -- if it wasn't for the Battle Mage factor he would be on the chopping block today. I think I'll be nominating dylan and Dean Winchester as soon as the next day starts.

[Mr Stoofer]

In fact, I believe everyone has voted now, so we can start Day 3 as soon as a Mod gets here.

[The Fonz]

Hmm... Dylan voting to save vandamein has me conviced that Dylan I s scum. I think BM may come up town, but I still agree with his lynch it gives us more info than lynching VD.

Hang on... you're convinced that Dylan is scum because he supported a lynch that not only did all but two other players back, but that YOU YOURSELF thought was a good idea? Why is Dylan's vote there any scummier than Stoofer's, mine, or indeed yours?

[Battle Mage]

Hmm... Dylan voting to save vandamein has me conviced that Dylan I s scum. I think BM may come up town, but I still agree with his lynch it gives us more info than lynching VD.

Dylan is getting a major pass here. He should at the very least been involved in the debate today. I'm going to suspect anyone that challenges anyone, but Dylan.

Vote: Van Damien

I see know way BM actions could have helped the town.

you might have seen had you not chosen to kill me instead.

If my opinion counts for anything, id like to see 2 of the following in the challenge tomorrow:

Van Damien, Yosarian2, Mneme

I have a feeling all 3 are scum. Mneme is an experienced player, and i cant imagine being town. Van Damien is certain scum, id say quite possible Conservative at this point. Ive got a gut feeling that Yosarian could also be Tory scum. Notice the way he held back his vote until the decision was certain, then voted to save me, in an attempt to look good tomorrow.

I think Dean is town. There is little logic that would lead him to join a wagon on someone he KNOWS is townie, when he doesnt have to. of course, if VD does come up Conservative, Dean could well be Liberal-Scum.

Im not sure about Stoofer. Albert seems town, but i wouldnt bet money on it. The Fonz is probably the most likely protown player imo.
Stewie feels town to me, whereas i could easily see Dylan as Tory-scum, who has spent most of the day being bussed by his team-mates.

good luck once again guys. im intrigued to see how well my suspicions play out. :p

[Stewie]

In fact, I believe everyone has voted now, so we can start Day 3 as soon as a Mod gets here.

Why wait?

nom: dylan

[Yosarian2]

I have a feeling all 3 are scum. Mneme is an experienced player, and i cant imagine being town. Van Damien is certain scum, id say quite possible Conservative at this point. Ive got a gut feeling that Yosarian could also be Tory scum. Notice the way he held back his vote until the decision was certain, then voted to save me, in an attempt to look good tomorrow.

Held back until decision was certain? You mean, you suspect me for NOT scummily jumping the gun and ending the day early the way Stoofer and Dylan did?

[dylan41985]

Dean - why am I scum because I voted to save Van Damien? You did too!

[dylan41985]

If you're going to nominate me, I suggest you revisit the thread and do some research first. Find out who I'm affiliated with, who could be in the mafia with me, etc.

You'll find that there are other players who have more suspicious voting patterns and have more connections with other players than I do.

I plan to survive another challenge.

but in the meantime, I REALLY hope Battle Mage is conservative so that you can see I'm pro-town.

[dylan41985]

Held back until decision was certain? You mean, you suspect me for NOT scummily jumping the gun and ending the day early the way Stoofer and Dylan did?

I was pretty much sold on the idea of keeping Van Damien since The Fonz talked about the benefits, so you can't claim that I was in a rush to end the day.

[Yosarian2]

But you did end the day, several real life days before we had to. You basically went ahead and dropped the hammer before we had finished discussing it, and I don't like that.

[Yosarian2]

And Stoofer, some of your reasons for suspecting BM seem to contradict your other posts. Earlier, you seemed to suggest that you thought BM was scum trying to mess up the nomination system, while later you said that the fact BM did the nomination dosn't say anything about his alignment. The reason I wasnted you to specifically lay out your reasons now, before we find out BM's alignment, is because they didn't quite make sense to me...

[Mr Stoofer]

And Stoofer, some of your reasons for suspecting BM seem to contradict your other posts. Earlier, you seemed to suggest that you thought BM was scum trying to mess up the nomination system, while later you said that the fact BM did the nomination dosn't say anything about his alignment. The reason I wasnted you to specifically lay out your reasons now, before we find out BM's alignment, is because they didn't quite make sense to me...

I didn't contradict myself; I was trying to draw a quite subtle distinction. What I said was:

Of course, Battle Mage is such a player that the mere fact that he went off piste tells us nothing about his alignment.

What I meant by that was that the simple fact (without more) that Battle Mage didn't abide by the nominations system was not, without more, an indication of scumminess. Battle Mage really is that stupid.

But there were additional considerations that made me suspicious of his motives for challenging VanDamien:

• This was not just a case of not following the system; the specific question whether VanDamien should be lynched was being discussed in the thread and the emerging consensus was that we should leave him for later. So Battle Mage seemed to be deliberately trying to do the opposite of what the Town wanted. This is what I had in mind when I said that he might be Scum trying to mess up the nomination system.
  
• VanDamien is confirmed Scum. An "easy lynch" (although not as it tuirned out). This made me think that Battle Mage might be trying to win "pro-Town" points by killing a Scumbag.
  
• This feeling was strengthened by the way that Battle Mage argued for VanDamien's lynch. Comments like this:

Of course, in my mind, the choice is clear. You can either lynch guaranteed scum, or potential scum. Im not Liberal, nor am i Conservative.

Is it worth wasting a day that we need in order to catch the Conservative scum, or would it be better to get rid of the certain scum, and maybe deal with BM tomorrow.

Kill the confirmed scum first. You might consider my action detrimental to the town, but i think you'll be singing a different tune if he comes up Conservative.

That last one I found particularly scummy. If (as many people suspect) VanDamien is Conservative; then Battle Mage's bizarre action can be explained as a gambit: to take credit for killing his buddy (who is a dead man anyway).

Of course I have other reasons, independent of his challenge of VanDamien, for thinking Battle Mage is scummy (outlined above). Plus I want him dead for policy reasons (a matter which we disagree about but which is now moot).

[Mr Stoofer]

In summary: if Battle Mage had just challenged (for example) me, I would have put it down to Battle Mage being an idiot. But the fact that he challenged VanDamien, and the way that he did it, strikes me as scummy.

[Stewie]

If you're going to nominate me, I suggest you revisit the thread and do some research first. Find out who I'm affiliated with, who could be in the mafia with me, etc.

You'll find that there are other players who have more suspicious voting patterns and have more connections with other players than I do.

I plan to survive another challenge.

but in the meantime, I REALLY hope Battle Mage is conservative so that you can see I'm pro-town.

It's not just voting patterns. You've been lurking day one, promised to contribute the next day when you were challenged, and did not do so.

Also, BM coming up conservative doesn't really mean anything in terms of you being town/scum. Scum can easily vote for their scum buddies to distance themselves.

[Battle Mage]

I have a feeling all 3 are scum. Mneme is an experienced player, and i cant imagine being town. Van Damien is certain scum, id say quite possible Conservative at this point. Ive got a gut feeling that Yosarian could also be Tory scum. Notice the way he held back his vote until the decision was certain, then voted to save me, in an attempt to look good tomorrow.

Held back until decision was certain? You mean, you suspect me for NOT scummily jumping the gun and ending the day early the way Stoofer and Dylan did?

exactly. you are defending me hard now, now that i am definitely lynched, and you know i will come up town. Your timing seems wrong for a protown player.

oh and before i go, someone tell Stoofer to stfu. Not only is he contributing very little of value to the town, his flaming seems to be becoming a sort of habit. I mean seriously, i can understand a grouchy guy giving out the occassional insult, but you criticise my intelligence every other sentence. Its hilariously ironic aswell, but ive neglected to point that out as of yet, because i didnt feel the need to stoop to your level. However, i now feel that this issue needs to be addressed, not just in this game, but for you in general as a player.
I mean seriously, unless you have some severe superiority complex, there's no need to go as far as you do. This is a GAME, and most of us are here for enjoyment. the last thing anyone needs is for their enjoyment to be spoiled by some guy who thinks he is always right, and flames people who beg to differ.

oh and yes, Stewie is right. Even if i did come up conservative, those on my wagon would be far from cleared.

BM

[pablito]

After a long televised chat over tea and crumpets, it was nice to see everyone come to a general consensus over the future of FSOCL. Apparently, on the issue of putting banana peels in the trash or leaving them on the floor, the country thinks that the stance from Battle Mage of leaving them on the floor is outrageous and not very humorous. They were not amused and voted to support his opponent VanDamien instead. Battle Mage, minor-party candidate has been lynched!

final vote count

Battle Mage

(2): Albert B. Rampage, Yosarian2

VanDamien

(6): mneme, The Fonz, Mr Stoofer, dylan41985, Stewie, DeanWinchester

Game Status: Cycle 3 (begins at 22nd June 0:01)
Deadline to Challenge: Sometime between the 25th and 26th
Deadline to Lynch: 23:59 EDT 29th of June

[DeanWinchester]

The way Dylan voted is why I find it suspect. His positioning, his bandwaggoning, and quick vote. Even though He had said two words the whole day leading up to his vote.

I don't have a problem with who he voted, I have problem with how his vote played out.

[dylan41985]

Don't have time to fully read the thread right now, will tonight probably.

My initial reaction is that we should also lynch BM. Going after VD today is pointless and not beneficial to the town.

Well the last thing

you

posted was the above on Tuesday. And then you waited until everyone else voted so you could decide how to vote to make yourself look good.

Don't tell me you don't like

how

I voted... that's an excuse.

[dylan41985]

And if you think I'm guilty because of the previous "bandwagon", you must think I am aligned with a few of the people who voted before me:

mneme, The Fonz, or Stoofer.

And then there were Stewie and you, DeanWinchester. You also joined the bandwagon but were too cowardly to do it when it actually counted.

Yet you still target me.

[DeanWinchester]

I find it helpful to maybe wait and see how other poeple feel before just droping the axe.
I target you for your play. Your vote does not sit well with me for the way it went down.

And i think you are guilty because of you lying about your random vote, you allusion to having some kind of power role, even though they do not exist in this game, Your lurkyness and refusal/hestitation in answering questions. Not to mention your save yesterday also increases my suspicions that you scum buddies helped you out.