Mini 462: Just another game of Mafia... over


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Post Post #250 (ISO) » Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:24 am

Post by Falcone »

After looking through Jenter’s posts I noticed the following:

* He doesn’t post all that much actual content. See for example his posts 86 and 111.

* He seems to be afraid to make his opinions public. In fact, before his most recent post where he said he liked the case against against Khelvaster, he hasn’t voiced any suspicions at all.

* One quote stood out in particular:
Jenter Brolincani wrote:Question; How many Power roles do you think we are likely to have in this game?
This is rather blatant role-fishing and deserving of suspicion.

FoS: Jenter Brolincani



Also, I have Khelvaster at only 4 votes right now: Panzer, myself, Alsleet and Tarhalindur. ~N9V~ unvoted in post 242 (which is interesting, you'd think that when you return to the thread after an absence and you unvote the prime lynch candidate, you'd give an explanation...)
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Post Post #251 (ISO) » Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:46 am

Post by PJ. »

Wait, If he is scum wouldn't that clear me too? I was the second on the wagon and the one who drew attention to him with the lurker hunting comment.
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Post Post #252 (ISO) » Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:57 am

Post by hand banana »

ok.. falcone

his second post in the game comes at #55:
Hand banana, why did you suspect khelvaster in post 36? Also, why the sudden change of heart about Nekka (posts 45 vs 48 & 50)?
i didn't like this part about nekka. i just explained why i removed my vote. it seemed to me as subtle scum strategy to make 2 townies fight each other. but it's all very vague.
Also, he claims to have found at least one scum (post 90) or even three scum (post 99), but he didn't give any reasons.
these are simply lies..
id didn't like his style here at all. i think he just picked up on nekka's mistake and he's trying to exaggerate arguments against me. and then he starts making them up.
then, after 5 pages, and only few of his posts..
- The point about playing just enough not to be called a lurker is stupid. You can't determine whether someone is a lurker just by looking at their post count. You also have to take into account the amount of actual content in their posts. I'll usually make one or two posts each day, and try to comment on as many issues as possible in those posts.
that content being:
-asked a couple of questions.
-made up something about me.
-said panzer is not suspicious at all.
that's all.
--
and then this:
Remember, being town doesn't mean you're going to decide correctly. Also, we can't actually be sure you're protown. Giving a possible scum a free nightkill of his choice would be terribly stupid.
when i asked about "what free nightkill" and pointed out that scum already
has a nightkill, he answered:

"That's why giving them an extra free nightkill would be disastrous."

i really didn't understand this, and it puzzled me for a very long time.
if i was scum, i wouldn't get an "extra free kill" by just a mere belief from town that i'm vig. and this came after i claimed. so he's making stuff up again, and subtly implying that i should be lynched.

then again, he sais he will be back with content on other players, but he disappears for couple of pages only to return with more false accussations for me:
It seems like the possibility of not using your ability tonight, which is the correct play, hasn't even crossed your mind.
it did. i said that at least couple of times.
then this:
The right way to play your role is not to claim unless absolutely necessary (as with most power roles) and not to kill unless you're extremely sure of someone being scum (for example: X claims cop, Y counterclaims, town lynches X who turns out to be the real cop, at night you kill Y).
yeah right.. the right way to play vig is not to claim, and to pick random players and kill them as he wishes. and all this with "Y" player. how the hell would he survive the day, and not get lynched if he claimed cop, and we have a dead cop??
By the way, don't you see how many people are disagreeing with your plan?
only 3. and 2 of them were my main suspects.
--
later he voted khelv and that's our current discussion.
so here are my conclusions:
he was very causcious with other players from the beginning. he made a couple of mistakes and contradictions only when he came after me. he never attacked anyone, but me, and jumped on khlev's bandwagon with reasons (in post 247) that don't seem believable to me at least.

-if khelv turns out to be scum, i think we should clear tar. falcone might be still scum, but he thinks khel is lost cause, and he just gives a couple of mild accusations. so, what i concluded right now is that khel's guit has nothing to do with falcone's.. if falcone is scum, that doesn't mean khel is innocent. and i would not like to see khel lyched before i see two of the in a discussion (khel and falcone).
right now i reconsidered everything i've read so far and:
falcone is scum 80%
khel is scum 55%
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Post Post #253 (ISO) » Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:40 am

Post by Jenter Brolincani »

Falcone, I've never played in a 12 man game and it's confusing me. I don't actually know about setups, so I don't know how likely it is that we have a cop/vig/doc trio, and so on. If we don't have a doc, for example, there's little point Lynching HB because any decent scum would kill him as an uncountered Power role, thus removing him anyway.

I haven't voiced many suspicions, because I haven't found or thought of anything that would really be of use to town at the moment. I also want to hear from the other players who are either scum protected by their absence or town being as useful as dilapidated treestumps.
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...this would be much simpler for me if one of you could stop making sense and act like scum. - Elmo

...So the only scum is a player with no vote, no NK and doesn't exist? - Rogue Shenanigans
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Post Post #254 (ISO) » Sat Jun 23, 2007 9:53 pm

Post by Nekka-Lucifer »

Falcone wrote:
To Nekka
:
Nekka-Lucifer wrote:Wow, I've obviously missed out on alot of content while I was away. I just want to raise suspicion back onto Hand Banana, personally I don't believe his claim. The suspicion I would like to raise is on Post 127. In the last bit, didn't he outloy his future plan to catch scum, or did I misread it?
Falcone wrote:Could you clarify this? I'm not sure what you mean by "outloy" (English not being my first language), and I'm not sure what exactly you find suspicious about hand banana's post 127.
Nekka-Lucifer wrote:Outloy:- I would say is the dictation of something. Basically telling someone something. Just a smart way of saying telling. Hope that helps :D
Falcone wrote:Why is "telling" a future plan to catch scum a scummy action?
Sorry, the website went down as I was answering your question FOR THE SECOND TIME (damn server)...

The answer is that if he gives his plan , then the scum will obviously know how he's going to implement it and not do what he is looking for... It's that obvious and I really wonder why some people didn't catch on.

Now for Hand Banana... I feel he is just a lost and confused vig in a counterclaiming world (Except the counterclaim part, I just needed something to fit :P). 2 things wrong with his fight...
Also, he claims to have found at least one scum (post 90) or even three scum (post 99), but he didn't give any reasons.
these are simply lies..
id didn't like his style here at all. i think he just picked up on nekka's mistake and he's trying to exaggerate arguments against me. and then he starts making them up.
Not true, you DID say this a while back:-
i also think we need more pro-town players in this discussion, cause i feel that all 3 scum are actively participating, and we won't be able to do much in a situation like that.
I took away some brackets so it's easier to read :D

Then,
Remember, being town doesn't mean you're going to decide correctly. Also, we can't actually be sure you're protown. Giving a possible scum a free nightkill of his choice would be terribly stupid.
when i asked about "what free nightkill" and pointed out that scum already
has a nightkill, he answered:

"That's why giving them an extra free nightkill would be disastrous."

i really didn't understand this, and it puzzled me for a very long time.
if i was scum, i wouldn't get an "extra free kill" by just a mere belief from town that i'm vig. and this came after i claimed. so he's making stuff up again, and subtly implying that i should be lynched.
What I think he means, is that if you're about to lynch a power role and they strongly claim against it, then the mafia could lynch them then... Ever think of that?

That's all from me
GUESS WHO'S BACK?

Not me...
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Post Post #255 (ISO) » Sat Jun 23, 2007 9:54 pm

Post by Nekka-Lucifer »

EBWOP: Mainly aiming somewhere onwards near solving this wild goose chase... We're at page 11. Although, we do have the Khel situation...
GUESS WHO'S BACK?

Not me...
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Post Post #256 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:29 am

Post by Khelvaster »

I have a power role and I dropped a breadcrumb in a post. I am reluctant to go further--I don't want to die tonight. Props to anyone who can spot it.
Lag actually does exist in real life. For proof, look no further than Jesus: When he died, it took him three *days* to respawn.
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Post Post #257 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:32 am

Post by PJ. »

Where the hell are the vote counts in this friggin game? Mod wake up.
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Post Post #258 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:34 am

Post by PJ. »

EBWOP: I don't like that claim. If you don't full claim you'll probably die today. I'm not a fan of the whole "I have a power role" If you claim power role you are still going to die. Only reason to say that is your a vanilla that is pulling a stupid gambit or a scum that is pulling a slightly less stupid gambit.
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Post Post #259 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:41 am

Post by Jenter Brolincani »

I can't find no breadcrumbs...
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...this would be much simpler for me if one of you could stop making sense and act like scum. - Elmo

...So the only scum is a player with no vote, no NK and doesn't exist? - Rogue Shenanigans
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Post Post #260 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:42 am

Post by PJ. »

I'll go into why breadcrumbing is good play at a later date but for now my above argument is sufficient.
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Post Post #261 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:43 am

Post by PJ. »

*isn't good play rather. Breadcrumbing is bad play.
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Post Post #262 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:07 am

Post by Nekka-Lucifer »

Breadcrumbing is good, but saying you have breadcrumbed is bad... Makes people look for it INCLUDING SCUM... Breadcrumbing is mainly used to support a claim in later game incase you are lynched.. If you say you have breadcrumbed but don't point it out. No-one may believe you except scum which will get you NKed
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Post Post #263 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:18 am

Post by PJ. »

No, Breadcrumbing is always bad, unless it's masons. The only time I support it is for masons. If you breadcrumb as almost any other power role, scum can pick up on it and you get gunned.
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Post Post #264 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:31 am

Post by hand banana »

i don't like this at all.
i wanted to defend khelv by saying that i think he's pro-town becauswe of the way he played before i claimed. i kinda got the impression that he sensed that i'm power role, and when votes started piling up on me, he backed up. there is no reason for scum to do that. i was unclaimed, suspicious, he wasn't even jumping on the bandwagon, cause he was one the first to suspect me..

but now, i don't like this claim at all. it was unnecessary, and unlike vig death, he death of doc or acop can seriously damage the town.
either way, i don't think we should pressure him to reveal his role.
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Post Post #265 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:06 am

Post by PJ. »

Why not? He is all ready dead, and whay if he is lying, which I get the strong impression of. More so then HB's claim. A lot more so. If he claims fully he could be full of shit and if he doesn't then he is already going to die. Only reason to to reveal is if he is A Vanilla gambiting or B. Scum gambiting.
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Post Post #266 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:55 am

Post by Khelvaster »

The crumb is in post 23 if you filter through only my posts. Notice that in my post 26 I confirm there is a crumb to be found in 23. If someone finds it, I will ask them to please not reveal my role, since that would make me the scum target of tonight (unless we have a doc.)
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Post Post #267 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:57 am

Post by Khelvaster »

EBWOP: I am not asking for the doc to claim. Someone will probably take that last sentence to mean that. I am just saying I am scum's number 1 target tonight, being a claimed power role.
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Post Post #268 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2007 7:18 am

Post by hand banana »

i like this less and less with every single post..
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Post Post #269 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2007 7:25 am

Post by PJ. »

*High Five* to HandBanaa

And I'm getting a Doc vibe from the first post and a Cop vibe from the second. And I'm with HB, your sounding more and more full of shit.
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Post Post #270 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:17 am

Post by Falcone »

1.

What's with all the premature claims today? Khelvaster was only at 4 votes with 7 to lynch after all. I really don't like the way he tries to claim his way out of trouble, instead of defending himself against the accusations that were made against him. By the way, his breadcrumb of his claimed role doesn't convince me at all.

So, I'll keep my vote until Khelvaster does what he should have done in the first place, namely responding to the accusations in posts 233, 244 and 247.


2.

Hand banana, thanks for writing out your reasons for suspecting me.

2.1.
My post 55, where I asked for explanation about your posts 45, 48 and 50, was made because I wasn’t satisfied with your sudden change in opinion with regards to Nekka. In post 45, you voted him, in post 48 you asked him to elaborate, and in post 50 (without waiting for the explanation you asked for) you unvoted because you suddenly felt that Nekka was probably a townie. That seemed (and still seems) weird to me.

2.2.
I can see why you feel I was exaggerating with regards to my statement that you "had found one or three scum already", but when one makes claims like "I’m 90% sure at least one of X and Y is scum", that comes pretty close, doesn't it?

2.3.
The thing about the extra nightkill. You're right, that was a mistake from me. Of course the scum doesn’t really get an extra nighkill when they succesfully make a false vig claim. What I meant to say was that it would be bad for the town to let scum, particularly the serial killer, get away with claiming vig just because they could "prove" their ability by making a kill at night, especially if they can make a kill of their choice.

2.4.
I stand by everything else I said about your "plan" to play his vig role. My example about the two cops was an extreme situation, but still valid. It’s very useful for the town to be able to kill a confirmed scum at night, instead of wasting a lynch on them. One of the reasons is that the town doesn’t get any extra information by lynching a confirmed scum, since the other scum would be stupid not to vote their doomed buddy in such a situation.

2.5.
Your conclusions:
hand banana wrote:so here are my conclusions:
he was very causcious with other players from the beginning. he made a couple of mistakes and contradictions only when he came after me. he never attacked anyone, but me, and jumped on khlev's bandwagon with reasons (in post 247) that don't seem believable to me at least.
- I don’t think I have been any more cautious in this game than I usually am. I also don’t think being cautious is in any way a scum tell, just as I don’t believe being aggressive is a scum tell. It’s a matter of playing style.
- You haven’t actually pointed out any contradictions in my posts. I do admit I made one clear mistake (see above, 2.2.), but that’s it.
- It’s absolutely not true I didn’t attack anyone but you. I FoS’ed Elias and Khelvaster while my vote was on you, and gave my reasons. Later on, I also discussed with Nekka and Jenter. I unvoted you as soon as I saw your claim (because I believed it, obviously). All the rest of my argument with you was about the merits of your plan, which I strongly disagreed with (and still do). Disagreeing with someone isn’t the same thing as thinking they’re scum though.
- I stand by the reasons I gave to vote Khelvaster.

Are you satisfied with these explanations or do you have more questions?


3.

Question for Panzerjager, what’s your current opinion on hand banana?
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Post Post #271 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:57 am

Post by Nekka-Lucifer »

Just seen, ac1983fan's thoughts on monday.... ...
GUESS WHO'S BACK?

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Post Post #272 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2007 9:51 am

Post by PJ. »

I'm still not sure about his claim. I'm still more willing to accept that he is the SK, not the vig. He has mad a few town posts. Last antitown thing that jumped out at me was that doesn't want to vote for someone he believes is scummy because other people that he feels are scummy are voting for him. Because he could and probably is wrong about some that only he thinks are not protown. The town as a collective is more likely to not be wrong as a collective. I also didn't like his excluding of "scummy people" in his NK candidate. I still think his plan is bad and shouldn't be implemented.

I'm willing to give HB a chance due to Khelvaster being scum.
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Post Post #273 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:02 pm

Post by hand banana »

Falcone wrote:

Are you satisfied with these explanations or do you have more questions?
i'm not exactly overjoyed, and i'll leave questions for later, but for now, since only i'm the only one voting for you, it seems like a waste of vote.
Unvote: Falcone


just one more thing about my plan:
i don't like the idea of me killing "confirmed scum" for one simple reason - very possible existence of mafia role-blocker. if we find one "confirmed scum", and we decide that i should kill him, and town lynches some other guy and he turns out civilian, i get blocked, and we will have: my N.kill wasted, lynch wasted and again that one scum alive so we have to lynch him the other day again.
so: town should deal with "confirmed scum", not me. and i still think my plan rules! :)
----------

panzer wrote:doesn't want to vote for someone he believes is scummy because other people that he feels are scummy are voting for him
exactly. other people (you for example) are way more scummier then he is.
if he's pro town, i really don't like his style of play (last couple of pages).
and his behavior about my "bandwagon" (it wasn't really bandwagon, but still), really gave me strong pro-town vibe from him, so i'm very reluctant to vote him right now.. those 2 reasons are equally important for my decision not to vote him..

and you are also getting scummier panzer.
you seem very happy with this confusion, and you also seem VERY assured that khelv is scum.
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Post Post #274 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:13 pm

Post by hand banana »

again, since mod doesn't seem to care:

Vote Count:


Khelvaster- 4 (Falcone, Panzerjager, AlSleet, Tarhalindur)
Panzerjager- 2 (Elias_the_thief, rolandofthewhite)
Nekka-Lucifer- 1 (~N9V~)
Tarhalindur- 1 (Jenter Brolincani)

Not voting (4): Khelvaster, hand banana, Nekka-Lucifer, ac1983fan

7 to lynch.

correct me if i'm wrong.
tonight.. you!

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